Michael Schumacher and his Mercedes drive....

[Greig]

Ok this is not a thread to drag up the past, but the BBC today were saying there was rumours about Kubica going to Mercedes to replace MS, who they said was being pushed into retiring again, they said the rumours were probably not very true but still, will Mercedes stick with MS or will they and he both decide it's just not working out as they hoped?

[FerrariF60]

i think they'll come to realization that the old schumi is NOT what they really expected him to be....so the rumors may be true that Kubica may come to mercedes....
i mean anyone that follows F1 knows that it takes quite some talent, speed and BALLS to drive an F1 car super fast....and looking at Kubica wrestle that Renault around is not just luck...is quite some talent....
so Merc would make a huge mistake by not signing him on...

but that's just my .02 cents opinion

[DBXdarkangel]

Hope they are true. MS is a laughable has been. He is worse than a sunday driver!! The man is a joke and an embaressment. Please please QUIT

[Julie B]

Hope they are true. MS is a laughable has been. He is worse than a sunday driver!! The man is a joke and an embaressment. Please please QUIT

Bit over the top don't you think ?

He maybe not as good as everyone expected him to be at this point in the season but he certainly isn't a joke or an embarassment

[m schumy]

The 3 year break didn`t help him at all, a lot of things have changed in F1. It`s clear it`s difficult for him to regain past form and his car isn`t helping him too much either I`m afraid.

[FerrariF60]

Hope they are true. MS is a laughable has been. He is worse than a sunday driver!! The man is a joke and an embaressment. Please please QUIT

yeah that is a BOT, but in all seriousness he doesn't have a chance against these FAST young drivers that today's grid is made of...
don't get me wrong, i like schumi, he's brought valuable chanpionships to Ferrari and good knowledge over the years he was driving for us....but "someone" should know when to draw the line
we can't say that the car is a total dog and that's why he's not doing that good, because Rosberg is driving the same car with same updates and always seem to do better then him

[Suzie]

Kubica's said that he hasn't decided his future yet. With the top 6 seats gone, you'd wonder why he just hasn't re-signed for Renault (assuming he hasn't already, of course.)

I wouldn't blame Mercedes for looking elsewhere - Kubica's in the form of his life right now. Whether these rumours are true or not, I just feel very sad for Michael. It's horrible seeing him struggling - they can say that it's the car all they like, but Michael's main strength was always dragging a bad car to where it shouldn't be, and he seems to have lost that. I think it's getting to the point where this could start to tarnish all the amazing things he accomplished throughout his career - the BBC went on and on about him today not doing well, and it's pretty grim to listen to :-?? I don't even see him as the same person that drove for us. I know we take the pee about him being old and having a dodgy neck, but it's not nice seeing someone who you used to look up to having a bad time of it. If Michael is just back to have a bit of fun then fair enough, but Mercedes are going to be wanting results.

Having said all that, given where Renault were today and where Merc were, maybe Kubica wouldn't even WANT to go there.

[Agron]

The time when aged drivers could come back from retirement and be competitive is gone. First because the cars are closer now, they won't get lucky jumping on a car 1 second a lap faster than anyone else, and second and most important, nowadays drivers are not only more talented than in the past, having to compete in lower categories with a far larger amount of people, but they also far more fit to cope with 2 hours driving on the edge with forces up to 5 gs. A rusty, not as fit guy just doesn't have a chance against his teammate or those in equal or faster cars, even if it's as fitness obsessed and insanely talented as Michael.

[REDARMYSOJA]

I would think they will give Schumi at least 2 seasons .

[fanformula1]

Schumi has been a joke for sure this season. However the chips are completely down and he has not given up at all. Just look at his comments from today. He is taking this beating on his stride.

I agree that Rosberg has humbled him this year. Question is can he get back to beating his teammate and more importantly pulling his team back from the doldrums ??

Let see what happens..

[Rob]

I read thatKubica has signed too stay with Renault. Wouldnt be good interest for him too go Merc, just look at the car. Renault are fast improving, Kubica nows that.

Yeah Schuey hasnt been, Schuey that we all know from the past. But say a joke, really? No im sorry that isnt right. F1 has moved on so so so much from 3 years ago. Got young hungry drivers who dont care about seeing him in mirrors or in front and go for it and fight him. Secondly he and we (Ferrari) back in 1999-2004 had 1 big advantage. BRIDGESTONE tyres. Back then they just made the tyres to our specifacations (spelt wrong, sorry) All the other teams using them back then aswell, struggled with them. Plus he was a sprint driver, used to running low fuel stints, loads of revs and torque. He isnt up to it. Sooner he realises that the better for him.

Simply, he hasnt got that spark anymore. F1 is a different sport now to what he knew and used too.

[Suzie]

I wish he would bow out gracefully, I can't even believe he would want to carry on next season. Just let him do Spa, and let that be it.

[ferrari4life]

I dont see why they would stick with him. He is not bring them any advantage and it doesnt seem like he is helping develop the car of pull things together. Frankly he is being beaten by Nico and should just retire and same himself the blushes

[ferrari4life]

I think he probably saw an easy title after what Brawn did last year with the car. Also the testing ban is probably not helping him

[Rob]

I wish he would bow out gracefully, I can't even believe he would want to carry on next season. Just let him do Spa, and let that be it.

yeah too right. Just be good if he would just put his hands up and say.. im leaving f1, im not where i used to be, and finding it hard to push as i did. But i reckon, as i said before there will be something long lines of his neck giving him lot of pain and been adviced to stop racing.

[Red Rocket]

I think they will give Schu what Shu wants if he wants to stay 2 or 20 years more, Mercedes will ok it.

[fanformula1]

I would be quite happy if he can just start beating Rosberg. But at the moment he is getting his butt kicked. Hence I called it a joke..He is almost .5 second slower each time. However he seems to have more fighting ability in races than Rosberg.

Honestly the car really sux and there is nothin anybody can do. Remember Alonso last year drove so badly in crap Renault. Same goes for Lewis last year in first half. This is same for Schumi or any other driver.

[Greig]

I think they will give Schu what Shu wants if he wants to stay 2 or 20 years more, Mercedes will ok it.

Would be silly to think that, Mercedes are there for results at the end of the day.

The car is not the best, but we were always told MS did not need the best car to shine, sadly that seems to have long gone.

[Suzie]

Depends whether Merc want him for PR purposes/cash or not. And if they prioritise that over results, that's kinda sad.

[epiclyaddicted]

I've said it from the beginning of this year that, for Michael's sake, I hoped and prayed that he wouldn't go through with this comeback. Like some other people have said, including our very own Luca di Montezemolo, I don't see this as the same Michael that retired at the end of 2006 after winning 7 world titles and 91 grands prix. He has broken pretty much every single record there is for a Formula 1 driver, I personally can't see any driver come even close to Michael's statistical achievements at least within the next decade or so, he is easily one of the greatest drivers ever, a living legend - but he risks tarnishing all of that with this comeback IMO.

Michael had his time, he should have moved on. He should have just let the young pretenders - Sebastian, Lewis, Fernando, etc. - get on with it and see how they come up in their respective careers, safe in the knowledge that with so much competition, none of them would realistically challenge his ultimate crown. Why did he have to get back into it? Just the adrenaline? Sunday thrills? Just for fun? Then I would have rather seen him in GT racing, Le Mans for instance. But why come back and tackle a full season (may be more) of Formula 1 at this age, after being away for 3 years when he had nothing more to prove or achieve at this category of motorsport?

As for the thread topic, surely as a racing team, what Mercedes would ultimately want is a driver who can deliver consistent results? As a German team, signing Michael Schumacher was obviously a huge PR success. But merchandise sales and fandom can only get so far! In Formula 1, ultimately it's only lap times that count, irrespective of who delivers those lap times. If that's Kubica for Mercedes, then why not?

P.S. For all Schumacher fans, I might be appearing too harsh on Michael, but like I said, I just didn't want him to come back from retirement. During his time at Ferrari, I worshipped him like a god, but he has already lost that god-like status for me. How much longer before he tarnishes everything completely?

[RedRebel40]

Michael has a hard time, if they give him some time he will recover I think. He should use 2010 as a year to get used to F1 again and be competitive in 2011 again. Next year there will be new tyres so everything can change again.

[Tommy_F]

I think he will stay at Merc this year, but after that, who knows? I mean it's almost halfway through the season, and he just isn't up to par. If he were a rookie, yes, the situation would be normal. But not with MS. He's not the driver he used to be, and if he doesn't improve to at least 1-2 tenths to Rosberg, it's not looking good for him. Kubica, Sutil and who knows who else is waiting to take his place @ Merc.

Or it may be that MS can't fully adapt his style to the new regs. Yes, he went through a lot of rule changes but all of them were gradual and he tested as much as he wanted. Maybe things are too different now, but ultimately, only he knows.

For comparison, look at Alguersuari. Thrown in and F1 car at age 19 @ Friday practice, in 1 year he defends against MS for half a race in an inferior car.

p.s. I still have bitter feelings towards him but I hope I was objective enough in this post.

[brembo man]

Why doen't Ross just tell Nico to let Mikey pass him? That would surely help. And it always worked for them before. MS certainly deserves that much respect.

[eriknaa]

If you guys think for a second, that the worlds most winning F1 driver will quit while he and his team is down on performance you are clarly mistaken.
Michael himself said today that his comeback is a long term plan and he will stick to that.
And since the spanish gp in may, he have beaten nico 3 out of 4 races, so please dont blame this on him, it is the team that need to provide both of them with a good car.

Remember us last year, did we blame the drives? no and rightly so it was the car wish was bad not our drivers.
I am 100% certian that pepole who are bashing michael now, will eat their words later.

[NJB13]

He was an excellent driver and should be remembered that way. It was a massive mistake to come back. His record, friendship and relationship with and through Ferrari would never be able to be replaced or reproduced - as he is probably realizing now.
I wish there was a way for him to bow out as gracefully as possible because I'm embarrassed watching him getting pants'ed by his team mate every race.
As for Kubica, for sure he'd do a better job than Shumy, but, I'm not sure it would be a good move by him. I think Merc made an opportunistic jump into F1 - they thought they could buy success and they thought having an advantage with their donk would bring them "instant coffee" success. They are being reminded how hard it is to succeed in F1. Bottom line, I'm not sure how long Merc will be around, it wouldn't surprise to see ownership changes there - and maybe that will be sooner rather than later.

[Agron]

Depends whether Merc want him for PR purposes/cash or not. And if they prioritise that over results, that's kinda sad.The problem is that even if they prioritize PR, a guy that is almost always slower than his not so awesome teammate as the face of the company is quite a disaster.
If they fire him it will be a disaster as people will see them not sticking with their drivers, and if they keep him and continues these mediocre performances it will be a wasted seat.
And of course the same happens for Michael, each race behind his teammate further ruins his image and helps raise questions from his revisionists.

[Schumiklub]

Well, in this article Ross Brawn says that there were no talks with Kubica since Mercedes took over the team. He only talked to him last year because Kubica lives near Brawn in Italy.

http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/formel1/news-101992-mercedes-kein-kontakt-zu-kubica-nur-bei-brawn-gp-gesprochen.html

[Ste]

Its on Autosport, Schumacher stating that he is here for 3 years and will be here at the end of those 3 years. brawn denies Kubica rumours, as did Kubica.

[Greig]

Schumacher can off course state that, but maybe the decision is not fully up to him, I am sure Mercedes were clever enough to think about get out clauses if performances were important to them.

[NJB13]

Its on Autosport, Schumacher stating that he is here for 3 years and will be here at the end of those 3 years. brawn denies Kubica rumours, as did Kubica.

All this denying - any similarity to Fernando's coming?
Don't clubs deny they are looking to replace managers and say they have "full confidence" .... just before they are fired :-)

[Alonsomaniac]

Mercedes is a big player in a tough world. They got Schumacher because of his name and reputation. If he can't deliver however, they will drop him just as easy as any other employee.

[fubar]

I belive in Michael dont think hes the problem the car is im sure....

[Tifosi]

I belive in Michael dont think hes the problem the car is im sure....

hmmmm. All that tweaking the car for Michael and Rosberg is still faster. Ross must be favouring Britney after all. Can't be Michael can it?! :lol

[cubanazo]

Hope they are true. MS is a laughable has been. He is worse than a sunday driver!! The man is a joke and an embaressment. Please please QUIT

I haven't post any comments for a while.....but to call Schumi a joke and an embaressmet is stupid and foolish. He gave us many championships and we have to respect that. Plus...look at the facts....he was "trapped" on the pit lane due to an error from race control. I'm tired of MS trashers just because Alonso came on board. Are we forgetting the past so fast?.....

[DBXdarkangel]

I haven't post any comments for a while.....but to call Schumi a joke and an embaressmet is stupid and foolish. He gave us many championships and we have to respect that. Plus...look at the facts....he was "trapped" on the pit lane due to an error from race control. I'm tired of MS trashers just because Alonso came on board. Are we forgetting the past so fast?.....

Not really. i Still stand by what i said, Just because im a Ferrari fan doesnt mean i have to like Schuey. I like massa an think his drive 2 years ago was awsome.
I think you have forgotten Schuey lost his championship TWICE on the trott to Alonso, then he quit. If you read his bio then you will no the reason why he quit. he said "When the day comes when a younger driver beats him then he will retire" and he also admitted a factor was Alonso beating him.

Anyways i will go as far as saying he will quit and the end of this season saying crap like "i only singed a 1 year deal to help Ross out when Jenson left" Bleh

[cubanazo]

Not really. i Still stand by what i said, Just because im a Ferrari fan doesnt mean i have to like Schuey. I like massa an think his drive 2 years ago was awsome.
I think you have forgotten Schuey lost his championship TWICE on the trott to Alonso, then he quit. If you read his bio then you will no the reason why he quit. he said "When the day comes when a younger driver beats him then he will retire" and he also admitted a factor was Alonso beating him.

Anyways i will go as far as saying he will quit and the end of this season saying crap like "i only singed a 1 year deal to help Ross out when Jenson left" Bleh

Sure...you must be one of the new Ferrari adquisitions after Alonso came on board.....let me remind you something....Michael was forced to quit just like Kimi.....after all, F1 is all about money (sponsors)....I've always been a Ferrari Fan, no matter who the drivers are.....btw, Michelin's tires were a lot better than Brigestone those days when Alonso became champion......Schumi still one of the best out there!!

[hogo]

nah he should stay, such an entertainer lol.

[WRX202]

Well everyone focusing on his driving when all I'm seeing is meesed up strategies. Are we sure it's Schumi that has lost it and not some other ex Ferrari member? Yesterday he was in 3rd position at one time on the harder compound and unbelievably his team forced him to pit when he could have tried his luck and stay out longer. He was the one that gained most positions in the start [4] even overtaking Rosberg only to lose it all in a pit stop lane with a red Light [?!] And all this on a track he never raced on before. He placed 19th [?] but imo it was his best drive this year.
If the whole team gets it's act together they can get there.

P.S. anyone else heard the Merc engineers yelling that the brakes were gone? Rosberg's and Schumi's. :Hmm

[Nova]

There are 2 views here...1..the people that are upset that MS came back but with a rival team...My take..he would only come back to a Brawn run team...no matter the team..
I think that if he came back last year with the car Brawn built, he would be leading the WDC...so I think its more the car...Of course there are some who love him so much
that no matter what he does, its ok....aka wrx202....Then there are those who hate him and feel betrayed because he didnt come back w/Ferrari, that he can do no right and is a
total has been in the world of F1...

Im glad that he was able to achieve so much with Ferrari, but again, that was the past...F1 changes so quickly, the tires for 1 are I believe, not very good this year. Its almost as if BS
decides who will run well or not by the compounds they bring to each race....Goodbye BS, dont let the door hit u in the on the way out...

Getting back to the thread, I dont really care what he does, with Merc or any team, as long as he finishes behind the Ferrari's. I would much rather see Ferrari and Merc fighting at the
front than RB and Mac...Tis getting to be a bit of a bore watching those 2 at the front so much lately...MS will def be w/Merc next year...he wont bow out after such a mediocre season..if
he quit now, the haters would be all over him moreso than simply because he's had a few bad races...

[Alonsomaniac]

I honestly think Schumacher underestimated how difficult it would be to come back - and that's only human.
Three years older , back in a world of constant development.
As Dylan said it years ago: And the times, they are changing........
Michaels times are over.

[impactX]

Schumacher had as much luck as Alonso at the European GP.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/28062010/23/schumacher-brawn-blast-safety-car-rule-champ-worst-finish.html

For real, the race control seems to be run by a bunch of amatuers who have no common sense but have their own interpretation of the rules.

[Ted]

YOU PEOPLE?????? AMAZING!!!!!!! If M S OR anyone else wants to drive F1 AND can get a seat ------- THEN GOOD ON THEM !!!!!!!!. I CAN'T. CAN YOU ??:-P. He is NOT embarasingly slow . He does NOT hold up all other drivers etc. I am not and have NEVER been an MS fan . I'm not a FAN ( sooo bloody juvenile a concept) of ANYONE

[steelstallions]

Ok this is not a thread to drag up the past, but the BBC today were saying there was rumours about Kubica going to Mercedes to replace MS, who they said was being pushed into retiring again, they said the rumours were probably not very true but still, will Mercedes stick with MS or will they and he both decide it's just not working out as they hoped?

Shouldn't you practice what you preach and only post Ferrari threads on Forza Ferrari Forum and lock this thread?

Don't complain when this thread turns ugly. You and the moderators would not tolerate posts such as MS is a laughable has been. He is worse than a sunday driver!! The man is a joke and an embaressment. Please please QUIT about current Ferrari drivers.

Or is having a pop at MS the whole point of it?

The rumour a few races ago was that Kubica was going to replace Massa, is he an embarrassment too?

[Greig]

Shouldn't you practice what you preach and only post Ferrari threads on Forza Ferrari Forum and lock this thread?

Don't complain when this thread turns ugly. You and the moderators would not tolerate posts such as MS is a laughable has been. He is worse than a sunday driver!! The man is a joke and an embaressment. Please please QUIT about current Ferrari drivers.

Or is having a pop at MS the whole point of it?

Woah it only took you about 2 months to bring that up :-)

Bit out of date, read the original post date and the reason for it before swinging your handbag around.......and if we wanted to have a thread slagging a rival, then so be it......

[Stormsearcher]

YOU PEOPLE?????? AMAZING!!!!!!! If M S OR anyone else wants to drive F1 AND can get a seat ------- THEN GOOD ON THEM !!!!!!!!. I CAN'T. CAN YOU ??:-P. He is NOT embarasingly slow . He does NOT hold up all other drivers etc. I am not and have NEVER been an MS fan . I'm not a FAN ( sooo bloody juvenile a concept) of ANYONE

I tend to agree on this. Am not an MS fan either, but if a team trusts and puts money on him enuf to drive one of their cars, then he deserves to be there. Also if the car was closer to what the last year car was, we would be fighting him for the championship along with vettel and co.
We have seen in our own garage that a struggling car can force the team and drivers into over doing it and making mistakes.
Frankly, am happy his car is not up to speed. I rather we fight the bulls or the Mcs in whatever car than schumi in a car good enuf to win. He is ruthless and doesnt make mistakes. It would have been very difficult.

[F1ferrarifanUSA]

Hope they are true. MS is a laughable has been. He is worse than a sunday driver!! The man is a joke and an embaressment. Please please QUIT

He s not an embarrassment! maybe you are just started watching F1. Please have some respect. He gave us 5 titles.

[F1ferrarifanUSA]

I would be quite happy if he can just start beating Rosberg. But at the moment he is getting his butt kicked. Hence I called it a joke..He is almost .5 second slower each time. However he seems to have more fighting ability in races than Rosberg.

Honestly the car really sux and there is nothin anybody can do. Remember Alonso last year drove so badly in crap Renault. Same goes for Lewis last year in first half. This is same for Schumi or any other driver.

Jenson already told that this car is built for him and his style, not Shumi s style...thats why he is strugling. And its too late to build a car for Shumi s style now other than upgrades. But next season the car will be build to his style, then we can know he still got it or not. If Rubens can still race I dont think Shumi has any issues at all.

[F1ferrarifanUSA]

If you guys think for a second, that the worlds most winning F1 driver will quit while he and his team is down on performance you are clarly mistaken.
Michael himself said today that his comeback is a long term plan and he will stick to that.
And since the spanish gp in may, he have beaten nico 3 out of 4 races, so please dont blame this on him, it is the team that need to provide both of them with a good car.

Remember us last year, did we blame the drives? no and rightly so it was the car wish was bad not our drivers.
I am 100% certian that pepole who are bashing michael now, will eat their words later.

:thumb

[steelstallions]

Woah it only took you about 2 months to bring that up :-)

Bit out of date, read the original post date and the reason for it before swinging your handbag around.......and if we wanted to have a thread slagging a rival, then so be it......



The age of the thread is not important when its brought back to the top of the active forum. You know its a subject that divides opinion between Tifosi so why have it still active?
Slagging off other teams makes sense when the board are mostly in favour, why have threads with posts that cause ill feeling with fellow Tifosi?
Divide and conquer, even Mclaren fans never disrespected Kimi and he took the title off their drivers in the last race of the season for their most hated team Ferrari.

Not sure what your fascination with handbags is about and I don't want to know either.

[Greig]

The age of the thread is not important when its brought back to the top of the active forum. You know its a subject that divides opinion between Tifosi so why have it still active?
Slagging off other teams makes sense when the board are mostly in favour, why have threads with posts that cause ill feeling with fellow Tifosi?
Divide and conquer, even Mclaren fans never disrespected Kimi and he took the title off their drivers in the last race of the season for their most hated team Ferrari.

Not sure what your fascination with handbags is about and I don't want to know either.

And where did I slag him...........and this does not divide the Tifosi, Ferrari is all that matter to Tifosi :-) If you read my first post and date you will see, but don't let that get in the way of your tantrum :-)

[racingbradley]

It would be a sad way to end what was a brilliant career. I am sure if Mercedes will take the risk, Michael would like to try again next year. His pride will be an issue here. Maybe Michael needs all those hours of testing which he cannot have now:-??
I cannot see Kube leaving Renault where he has a fairly decent car.;-)

[steelstallions]

And where did I slag him...........and this does not divide the Tifosi, Ferrari is all that matter to Tifosi :-) If you read my first post and date you will see, but don't let that get in the way of your tantrum :-)

I didn't say you slagged him off, i quoted the post that did and pointed out to you as a moderator it might be prudent to keep the peace with fellow fans to lock the thread.
Your reply instead was to say and if we wanted to have a thread slagging a rival, then so be it......
So you encourage the very thing which will cause us to take our eye off the ball which is to enjoy watching the drivers we have now and hoping they could emulate what the 'rival' driver achieved with us.
Surely you can understand my point of view?

[Greig]

I didn't say you slagged him off, i quoted the post that did and pointed out to you as a moderator it might be prudent to keep the peace with fellow fans to lock the thread.
Your reply instead was to say and if we wanted to have a thread slagging a rival, then so be it......
So you encourage the very thing which will cause us to take our eye off the ball which is to enjoy watching the drivers we have now and hoping they could emulate what the 'rival' driver achieved with us.
Surely you can understand my point of view?

So why can't we discuss MS? you quoted someone who is now banned...says something?

[steelstallions]

So why can't we discuss MS?

Discussing any driver or team is part of all forums.
A well balanced and moderated forum allows for all discussions, but need I say I have seen forums torn apart when the discussion turns from heated debate to name calling to insults and to threats.
One horrible episode on a motor sport forum was of all flaming subjects about the Americans role in WW2 compared the the UK's role.
I could not believe the moderators were not stepping in and even though a core of us, who were not even involved in the discussion, tried to get moderators to cool it down, it was too late many posters left and never returned.
MS leaving the team created a mix of emotions so raw that even on here I wondered if peace would come.
I like posting on here,when its about the team it feels good, I would not want a mere thread, though this one is nothing like others, disrupt the peace, in hindsight why would you not agree?

[Greig]

To be fair until you went off on one this thread was quite well balanced and well behaved don't you think? I am confident our members can debate MS without resorting to insults :-) If this thread upsets you then it's easy to avoid and not read?

Lot's of things divide this forum, not just MS, have a look at the recent team orders :-)

[brembo man]

The chin's chance to cancel out Rubens future book missed by 2 inches ! Or did he just see it as good clean fun? Well, I'll give him this much, he is the best of the losers. The drivers in the back can certainly learn from him first hand, just don't get him mad. Better to let him pass.

[mad_ani]

MS had a 3 year plan with Merc and he has nothing much to lose..maybe a fresh start with mandated weight distribution and tires may suit his driving style...or may not...guess this season is just one big test session for him..

[fanformula1]

Jenson already told that this car is built for him and his style, not Shumi s style...thats why he is strugling. And its too late to build a car for Shumi s style now other than upgrades. But next season the car will be build to his style, then we can know he still got it or not. If Rubens can still race I dont think Shumi has any issues at all.

I am one of Schumi's greatest fans and I dont hide it at all. However even for me, no matter what the excuse I cant understand how Rosberg can perform so much better than him in Button's car ?

Its almost like MS took this drive for the money. Is he short on cash ?

Or maybe he just cant put in the extra tenth's to be always on the limit ?

Or maybe it is just old age and nobody can fight it ?

Whatever it is, I am sure his fans are definitely perplexed. It would really help if someday Ross or Schumi will share the exact truth with us fans for the reasons related to his slowness this year.

[laznlSpeedDemon]

The thing is exactly as you guys have said but given this year, I think he will come back next season able to contend for the title, he knows what it takes and he will do what it takes. Giving up hope on him now is like sacking Massa after this season because he's not able to keep up with Alonso. Think of this year as a by year for him, no one can come back into a sport 3 years later and expect to perform as they did when they left. If any of you play sports, you will know even not playing for a month or 2, you get rusty and takes time to get back into it. well, this is 3 years later and with a motorcycle crash in a sport that demands so much of the body. By the end of the season, I hope to see him at a pace faster than Rosberg.

[Stormsearcher]

I am one of Schumi's greatest fans and I dont hide it at all. However even for me, no matter what the excuse I cant understand how Rosberg can perform so much better than him in Button's car ?

Its almost like MS took this drive for the money. Is he short on cash ?

Or maybe he just cant put in the extra tenth's to be always on the limit ?

Or maybe it is just old age and nobody can fight it ?

Whatever it is, I am sure his fans are definitely perplexed. It would really help if someday Ross or Schumi will share the exact truth with us fans for the reasons related to his slowness this year.

Well for one, he has been off track for 3 yrs and am sure the cars have changed considerably. Who knows, maybe rosberg can adjust to Jensons type of car setup and schumi cant. I am forced to think its the car that is keeping him.
As for the truth, of him being slower than rosberg, i doubt he can answer that. Can Massa, button, petrov.. explain why they have been outpaced by their team mates in equal machinery? I doubt it.

[Tifosi]

What I find interesting is the gap between Rosberg & MS. Compared to other team mates of supposed equal status in the team, it's enormous - regardless of his time away from the sport.

I'm sure if he's given a more suitable car (and lets face it he's had a car built specifically for him for a decade now) he will improve, but there's just no way on earth the old Schumy is coming back. He's enjoying himself too much for a start! ;-)

His misjudgements in how to handle his competitors on track are one thing, but the ability to adapt to a car that wasn't made for him is clearly not there - unlike his team mate it would seem. :Hmm

I like MS. I remember what he did for us and how he did it, but moreover I actually like the guy and still admire his determination in deciding to come back (even though he baulked us in doing so). The only issue i have with him is that he seems to think he should have a different set of rules applied to him than any other driver as regards movements on track (unless you count Hami!).

That doesn't make him "hard but fair" in my eyes, that makes him a liability to other drivers. My mind was made up on that when he clashed with the Force Indias on the last lap in Canada. The situation with Rubens only served to reinforce that view.

[Schumyboy83]

I belive MS will still be there next season, He just needs tis season to adjust and get use to racing again, I belive he signed for 3 years, Next season he will be on the pace and fighting for the title, Merc have stopped the development of this car and concentrating on next years car.

[WRX202]

Well he knew it was not going to be easy and what he would have to endure. If there's anything left to admire about him it is his will power and never give up attitude. Maybe with the big reset next year when everyone switches to Pirelli rubber he'll have a better shot but till then he's going to have to put up with all the slagging coming his way, justified or unjustified, biased or jealousy and all the other types of it.
He has been a reference mark for all these drivers, some admired him and some hate his guts and still do [like Reubens] I wish he realized sooner that concrete walls won't solve these issues but just add more dry wood to the fire waiting to come out of the mouths of his critics. He apologized, next step is to clean up his act and up his game.

[Greig]

.

That doesn't make him "hard but fair" in my eyes, that makes him a liability to other drivers. My mind was made up on that when he clashed with the Force Indias on the last lap in Canada. The situation with Rubens only served to reinforce that view.

And taking Massa out of his well deserved points finish......

[racingbradley]

And taking Massa out of his well deserved points finish......

Yes Michael that was quite unforgiveable in my book.

[schumitoo]

I dont know what depresses me more. The BBC totally biased commentators, or this Forum. Michael gave many years of absolute and selfless commitment and loyalty to Ferrari, not to mention 5 titles. We should, in the very least, respect that. He took 3,5 years holiday (wish I could say the same), and then fell out of the sky in a parachute into a car he was not familiar with, strange tyres, new team with different philosophies. I think, under the circumstances, he is doing very well. His team mate is doing better? Only relatively, and so he should be. He has been developing in tandum with the new tyres, the new rules, etc. Besides, I would also get a podium if the fellas in front knocked themselves out of the running .... Give Michael a break. He deserves that much.

[Greig]

If this F E R R A R I forum depresses you as a MS fan, then simply don't visit :-)

[Tifosi]

And taking Massa out of his well deserved points finish......

indeed

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

If this F E R R A R I forum depresses you as a MS fan, then simply don't visit :-)

+1

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

If this F E R R A R I forum depresses you as a MS fan, then simply don't visit :-)

it actually depresses me as a Ferrari Fan that people still go on about people who are no longer with us (team) and not even in the sport anymore! :-)

[Salvador Dali]

If this F E R R A R I forum depresses you as a MS fan, then simply don't visit :-)

This is getting silly... I mean come on Grieg... YOU opened a MS thread and gave people the chance to express their views on MS... So they did... BUT if YOU don't like what they think / write you tell them to go away... Yes this is A Ferrari forum and sorry to tell you this but MS is, from a historical point of view, part of Ferrari... So if some views are not shared with the rest we can argue them or not!? Why slag just the members that still want to give MS some credit...

I once posted a reply in a thread that it would be nice if WE as Ferrari fans still had some respect for our competitors... It seems it has all gone... too bad...

Enjoy this thread...

[Greig]

This is getting silly... I mean come on Grieg... YOU opened a MS thread and gave people the chance to express their views on MS... So they did... BUT if YOU don't like what they think / write you tell them to go away... Yes this is A Ferrari forum and sorry to tell you this but MS is, from a historical point of view, part of Ferrari... So if some views are not shared with the rest we can argue them or not!? Why slag just the members that still want to give MS some credit...

I once posted a reply in a thread that it would be nice if WE as Ferrari fans still had some respect for our competitors... It seems it has all gone... too bad...

Enjoy this thread...

I never told anyone to go away, but if someone comes here to be depressed about a MS thread then perhaps for their own health they should not visit no? Not my fault some fans can't accept others views and use it as a reason to slate the forum is it :-)

I will await for this new found respect for Lewis to appear here also ;-)

[ferrari4life]

I once posted a reply in a thread that it would be nice if WE as Ferrari fans still had some respect for our competitors... It seems it has all gone... too bad...


Doesnt seem like MS has any respect for fellow drivers.. including his friend and former team mate Massa.. and his other teammate Rubens (that moved over so many times for him)..If he puts one of our Ferrari drivers into a wall then why should be respect him..

[Salvador Dali]

You always had a way with words... :-)

I'm sorry but I'm just not that good in this game as you, as English is not my native language. And as much as I know you (as a TSN moderator) you have changed a lot. Not that this is a problem for me as I don't post, but I would like if you were more balanced in your views. I'm part of this forum in one way or the other from about 1999 / 2000 so I tend to know a thing or two about this forum. Back in the "good old days" there was no love between teams (speaking from a fans point of view) but there was respect! As you can recall we even had hard core McLaren fans here and they liked it here because there was respect! Now I admit I don't like Lewis but I never made stupid comments about him! Not here or any place else, so your last line tells me how low this forum has gone. There are still a few members that make good posts and there are some good tech stuff & news but still a long way from what it was.

Again I'm not trying to bring someone down but I'm trying to make you see that with this kind of attitude this forum will lose even that small amount of good members that it still has. Just please take a minute and really think about it...

Members come and go I have learned to deal with it but this forum will stay with you, so I really can't see why not at least try to make it better by setting a good example for all the new forum members. This is my take on things. Take it or leave it I really don't care.

Hope you can see this from more than just one angle.

Have a nice day sir

[Salvador Dali]

Doesnt seem like MS has any respect for fellow drivers.. including his friend and former team mate Massa.. and his other teammate Rubens (that moved over so many times for him)..If he puts one of our Ferrari drivers into a wall then why should be respect him..

Well if you can't think of a good reason than don't! I'm not saying you should. That is a personal thing and it is up to each member to be as good as they can, for this forum is a community and many different views will come out but than it is up to individuals to make it a better place - if you can.

I'm trying...

Cheers

[Greig]

Well if you can't think of a good reason than don't! I'm not saying you should. That is a personal thing and it is up to each member to be as good as they can, for this forum is a community and many different views will come out but than it is up to individuals to make it a better place - if you can.

I'm trying...

Cheers

So you want a community that conforms to your ideas and opinions, you want no differing views, or views that might not be acceptable to you?

You say I should be more balanced, how about you show me what comments I have made in this thread that in your opinion are not balanced, because I am struggling to see them....

[Salvador Dali]

So you want a community that conforms to your ideas and opinions, you want no differing views, or views that might not be acceptable to you?

You say I should be more balanced, how about you show me what comments I have made in this thread that in your opinion are not balanced, because I am struggling to see them....

Read my 2 posts (not to hard is it...) again. How you have come up with this line amazes me to no end. I'm just trying to make a contribution to this thread by making it more balanced (reference to your question). If you don't see it no amount of my posts will make you see. You either do or you don't. Looks like you don't.

Don't worry I will stop now as it seems my views are not welcomed here.

Have a nice day

[Liscia]

Out of gratitude I continue to wish MS well but DEFINiTELY NOT EVER at Ferrari's expense. However long he wants to keep on is his
own business but he should be setting an good example and not resorting to desperate, questionable and unsafe antics. It's his
decision of course but I personally think he should hang it up sooner rather than later. I',m now glad he didn't come back to drive
for us again-that he didn't was a blessing in disguise.

[racingbradley]

I feel some sympathy for him but I am convinced his self belief is still current. If he is allowed to remain with Mercedes he will resurrect. I believe we will see the old Michael back again in a car that was built around him not Jenson!!!!!
I do not make any excuses for his moves on Force India, Felipe and Rubens.

[rob-nyc]

I am new member here and I am also just starting to become a ferari fan.
I just want to say that I don't need anyone to tell me that I need to show some respect to MS just because of his association to Ferrari.

I have very little tolerance to unsportsmanlike behavior and MS. Was always a cheat and will never change. For me personally, this kind of behavior will always outweigh his abilities therefore I will always show no respect for this driver.

it is kind of sad that on his comeback he decides to reinforce his dirty approach to racing instead of trying to amend that.
all the positive things that he had going for himself before are now gone, and now he's simply left with cruising in the midfield and pissing his competitors off ..

[justjesper]

I think some one is using Kubica's name to stir up things. He was also going to take Massa's place.
What's next taking Lewis's spot :-D

[Alonsomaniac]

I will await for this new found respect for Lewis to appear here also ;-)

You can grow quite a beard before that happens I think....:lol

[Italian Spirit]

A short popular saying resumes MS situation better than a million words:

"On ne peut être et avoir été".(*)

Schumacher is paying the price for having ignored this basic truth and thought he was stronger than time.

What a waste!

(*) No, I'm not going to translate. :-D

[GamD]

I think Merc has gained a few " supporters " just based on the MS gravy train, I don't think they really expected to come out all guns blazing winning the titles on there first show, but to get MS on board will raise there profile and presence as a new team, be it that it might of have backfired on the big presence effect.
Either way MS has brought something back to F1, The near death feeling for Rubens, and that we all can’t stop chatting about him.
If he goes, he goes and if he stays, he stays. I doubt he is going to make any bigger waves he already has.

[justjesper]

I think Merc has gained a few " supporters " just based on the MS gravy train, I don't think they really expected to come out all guns blazing winning the titles on there first show, but to get MS on board will raise there profile and presence as a new team, be it that it might of have backfired on the big presence effect.
Either way MS has brought something back to F1.

Well of cause he gave them more supporters, lots, and lots of sponsor money.
I think the same can be said about Alonso. In this forum there is a lot of new people here because of him.
You can say that that is bad. Lets just hope that doesn't backfire :-)

[steelstallions]

You can grow quite a beard before that happens I think....:lol

I wouldn't get too used to the beard yet, what happens on this forum if Lewis is offered a seat in the Ferrari in the not so distant future? He has not ruled out driving for Ferrari and its only us fans that don't like him, Ferrari have never had a problem with him. :Hmm

[Tifosi]

I wouldn't get too used to the beard yet, what happens on this forum if Lewis is offered a seat in the Ferrari in the not so distant future? He has not ruled out driving for Ferrari and its only us fans that don't like him, Ferrari have never had a problem with him. :Hmm

Not too distant? When are you thinking of? Bear in mind also that certain conditions would need to exist to support such a move:

1. Alonso would have to be gone
2. All of the good drivers would have to be elsewhere (not gonna happen is it?!)
3. Hell would have to have an icy crust on it!

[Salvador Dali]

Not too distant? When are you thinking of? Bear in mind also that certain conditions would need to exist to support such a move:

1. Alonso would have to be gone
2. All of the good drivers would have to be elsewhere (not gonna happen is it?!)
3. Hell would have to have an icy crust on it!

I tend to agree, but that was the general feeling when the first rumors about MS to Ferrari and / or Alonso to Ferrari move was seen on the net... And the rest is history. But really driver are just employees for the team, so if the boss thinks it is good for the team then it doesn't matter if we like it or not. So from this angle hell doesn't need to freeze nor does it mean that all good driver have to be gone... But still I don't think Lewis will be wearing red any time soon...

[Greig]

Read my 2 posts (not to hard is it...) again. How you have come up with this line amazes me to no end. I'm just trying to make a contribution to this thread by making it more balanced (reference to your question). If you don't see it no amount of my posts will make you see. You either do or you don't. Looks like you don't.

Don't worry I will stop now as it seems my views are not welcomed here.

Have a nice day

I have read your 2 post, and not 1 of them offered any opinion on the thread title, and not 1 of them made a contribution to make the thread more balanced, you are just attacking my opinion without even telling me what part of my opinion you do not find balanced....at least show me where I have not been balanced in this thread about MS....

[Tifosi]

I tend to agree, but that was the general feeling when the first rumors about MS to Ferrari and / or Alonso to Ferrari move was seen on the net... And the rest is history. But really driver are just employees for the team, so if the boss thinks it is good for the team then it doesn't matter if we like it or not. So from this angle hell doesn't need to freeze nor does it mean that all good driver have to be gone... But still I don't think Lewis will be wearing red any time soon...

Lewis isn't good enough. I'd rather have Kimi back if we have to go down that route again!

[Salvador Dali]

Well yeah me 2! I liked Kimi a lot and was sorry to see him go but I think Alonso is better for the team with his method of work compared to Kimi. But as I said it is not up to us...

I don't like Lewis on bit he is a very good driver no matter how much I dislike him.

[Fiondella]

I don't think MS should even have dreamt of coming back into F1 especially driving for another team. The move on Ruby was embarrassing to watch and should have cost him Spa. IMHO he has ruined the gloss on his otherwise fantastic career and devalued his achievements with Ferrari.

[Alonsomaniac]

Well yeah me 2! I liked Kimi a lot and was sorry to see him go but I think Alonso is better for the team with his method of work compared to Kimi. But as I said it is not up to us...

I don't like Lewis on bit he is a very good driver no matter how much I dislike him.

Lewis is a very FAST driver but that does not mean he is a very GOOD driver............and Ferrari is only interested in very good drivers.

[Salvador Dali]

I don't think MS should even have dreamt of coming back into F1 especially driving for another team. The move on Ruby was embarrassing to watch and should have cost him Spa. IMHO he has ruined the gloss on his otherwise fantastic career and devalued his achievements with Ferrari.

OK this will be my very last post on this subject. MS was the same person / driver as he was in F3, at Benetton, Ferrari and now Mercedes... I never liked his aggressive style but I did appreciate work ethic and ofc our wins and championships. If he didn't change till now how on earth can you be disappointed that he is the same as he always was.

Take the man for what he is - a 7 times wdc & a Ferrari legend. Like him or hate him that is what he is and he will never change...

[justjesper]

OK this will be my very last post on this subject. MS was the same person / driver as he was in F3, at Benetton, Ferrari and now Mercedes... I never liked his aggressive style but I did appreciate work ethic and ofc our wins and championships. If he didn't change till now how on earth can you be disappointed that he is the same as he always was.

Take the man for what he is - a 7 times wdc & a Ferrari legend. Like him or hate him that is what he is and he will never change...

:thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb

[Fiondella]

OK this will be my very last post on this subject. MS was the same person / driver as he was in F3, at Benetton, Ferrari and now Mercedes... I never liked his aggressive style but I did appreciate work ethic and ofc our wins and championships. If he didn't change till now how on earth can you be disappointed that he is the same as he always was.

Take the man for what he is - a 7 times wdc & a Ferrari legend. Like him or hate him that is what he is and he will never change...

Try telling the Tifosi. Lets see what reception he gets at Monza. Like I said IMO he's tarnished his reputation and is now akin to a puch drunk has been boxer.

[justjesper]

Try telling the Tifosi. Lets see what reception he gets at Monza. Like I said IMO he's tarnished his reputation and is now akin to a puch drunk has been boxer.

I'm a Tifosi ????????? and you

[Fiondella]

I'm a Tifosi ????????? and you
Have you got more than one head then? Or do you represent more than one person?
I like to think of myself as a Tifoso thanks very much :-)

[brembo man]

OK this will be my very last post on this subject. MS was the same person / driver as he was in F3, at Benetton, Ferrari and now Mercedes... I never liked his aggressive style but I did appreciate work ethic and ofc our wins and championships. If he didn't change till now how on earth can you be disappointed that he is the same as he always was.

Take the man for what he is - a 7 times wdc & a Ferrari legend. Like him or hate him that is what he is and he will never change...

I think the Ferrari he was driving helped.Our wins and championships was the car also, big time! No one mentions the car!!! Look at him now. The Merc doe's fine with Nico, but somethings missing for Mikey, I think it's the old radio, and Todt. Needing points or not, you had to let him pass. That helps. He almost wacked Rubens last race .Take the man for what he is.Wihtout Ferrari he's a bum , even Ross can't make him right.

Check out his protegee Vittell, he thinks he is MS! Same aggressiveness, disregard for his teamate, and he happens to be driving a Rocket! Pole position can't even help him. He needs team orders if he truly wants to be MS.

[steelstallions]

Not too distant? When are you thinking of? Bear in mind also that certain conditions would need to exist to support such a move:

1. Alonso would have to be gone
2. All of the good drivers would have to be elsewhere (not gonna happen is it?!)
3. Hell would have to have an icy crust on it!

Who thought Kimi would only last three seasons and he won a WDC in his first year. I only say in the near future as the contracts with Massa and Alonso are for just a couple of years and Ferrari would never accept an ageing Lewis as a driver. I am not saying its imminent but its possible and it would be a very odd scenario. Who at the start of the 2007 season thought Alonso would end up at Ferrari by 2010?

[steelstallions]

Try telling the Tifosi. Lets see what reception he gets at Monza. Like I said IMO he's tarnished his reputation and is now akin to a puch drunk has been boxer.

I am Tifosi and certainly don't have that opinion. His record is not tarnished, he came off his pedestal and has had the balls to race again, come next season in a car designed around him like in his Ferrari days we will be seeing a different MS. Should that not be the case, then it only proves that time waits for no man, but it will be a long time before any man matches let alone beats his best records, most of which are in the history books as a FERRARI driver.

[steelstallions]

.Wihtout Ferrari he's a bum , even Ross can't make him right.

Check out his protegee Vittell, he thinks he is MS! Same aggressiveness, disregard for his teamate, and he happens to be driving a Rocket! Pole position can't even help him. He needs team orders if he truly wants to be MS.

If MS won five titles with us as a "bum" then drivers like Mansel, Prost Berger Alesi Alboreto etc before him who won no titles with us must have really sucked!! I guess the other two he won with Benetton are irrelevant too.

[mad_ani]

I don't think MS should even have dreamt of coming back into F1 especially driving for another team. The move on Ruby was embarrassing to watch and should have cost him Spa. IMHO he has ruined the gloss on his otherwise fantastic career and devalued his achievements with Ferrari.

Why not..he is a born racer and if there is a chance to race in F1..he can....He did go to Merc only after there was no chance with Ferrari...

The move with Rubens was great..bothe drivers knew how much room the give for each other at 200mph...its professionalism..

If he wins the next 2 WDC's this year would not be a waste...and I dont think Michael came back for any records...he just came back to win..ans it noway devalues what he won with us

[brembo man]

If MS won five titles with us as a "bum" then drivers like Mansel, Prost Berger Alesi Alboreto etc before him who won no titles with us must have really sucked!! I guess the other two he won with Benetton are irrelevant too.

The boy won 5 titles with us. The car, Ferrari, thats how he won. We were unbeatable. Without Ferrari he's a bum. Even Ross can't help him win. Do you get it now? MS, Ferrari = champion. No Ferrari, MS = a Bum. I'm upset that he almost took out my buddy Rubens, and got away with it. At least when he messed with Senna, he got slapped and choked in front of all that were present. Senna then let go of him, that's professionalism, he gave him just enough room to breath.

[justjesper]

The boy won 5 titles with us. The car, Ferrari, thats how he won. We were unbeatable. Without Ferrari he's a bum. Even Ross can't help him win. Do you get it now? MS, Ferrari = champion. No Ferrari, MS = a Bum.

Does what your saying account for the drivers we have now also ? cause if what your saying is true then all drivers driving for Ferrari is bums.
At least they are all equal :-)

[mad_ani]

The boy won 5 titles with us. The car, Ferrari, thats how he won. We were unbeatable. Without Ferrari he's a bum. Even Ross can't help him win. Do you get it now? MS, Ferrari = champion. No Ferrari, MS = a Bum. I'm upset that he almost took out my buddy Rubens, and got away with it. At least when he messed with Senna, he got slapped and choked in front of all that were present. Senna then let go of him, that's professionalism, he gave him just enough room to breath.

So was ur buddy Rubens a bum in the same car as MS..Not even winning half the number of races won by MS???.
MS has been penalised 10 places for Spa, if u have not been updated...
Yes, Ferrari provided him with a great car and the combination was fantastic and Ross alone was not responsible for MS's success...It was a great team effort by everyone involved.

[justjesper]

So was ur buddy Rubens a bum in the same car as MS..Not even winning half the number of races won by MS???.
MS has been penalised 10 places for Spa, if u have not been updated...
Yes, Ferrari provided him with a great car and the combination was fantastic and Ross alone was not responsible for MS's success...It was a great team effort by everyone involved.

You just made my day :thumb

[steelstallions]

The boy won 5 titles with us. The car, Ferrari, thats how he won. We were unbeatable. Without Ferrari he's a bum. Even Ross can't help him win. Do you get it now? MS, Ferrari = champion. No Ferrari, MS = a Bum. I'm upset that he almost took out my buddy Rubens, and got away with it. At least when he messed with Senna, he got slapped and choked in front of all that were present. Senna then let go of him, that's professionalism, he gave him just enough room to breath.

Are you for real? MS was a double world champion and the current champion when he joined Ferrari, he was hot property and could have joined any team including the ones winning trophy's in the mid nineties. He no doubt would have won WDC's between 1996 and 2000 as he would have jumped straight into a winning car, the Ferrari with or without him was some years off from reaching its potential.
Ferrari built a great car around him, but lets say the same cars were going to be built without him there and Brawn and the other Benneton team members still joined a Ferrari without Schumacher, who do you suggest would have been the driver to get us the 5 titles between 2000 and 2004 IRVINE or BARRICHELLO, maybe Coulthard or Montoya?
The best of that generations crop was Mika and he as good as gave up being competitive by 2000? Not forgetting whoever we had in the seat would have had a young MS to beat in what was for some of those years rival cars that could match our pace, 2003 for example being the closest season of all.
We have had a car with pace at two races this season and we walked away with little to show for it, was that the cars fault or with hindsight would our drivers have got more out of the race? Does that make Alonso and Massa a pair of bums, they had the car and didn't get the points! Your logic does not stick, you need a car that matches or exceeds the best cars on the grid but you also need a driver that maximises the cars potential. A driver who when a race starts you expect them to win, or what would be the case with MS when he was at Ferrari you KNOW would win the race with his so called number 2 mostly half a lap behind him until MS slowed down for the final lap for the photo shoot of a 1 - 2 finish.
Only Mclaren muppets and the cry baby RB himself talk about Austria 2002 as though it was every race RB had to yield for team orders.

[justjesper]

Think we are a few left here that can cope with him leaving and see that Michael Schumacher is a special person.
He is not doing as most of us expected but if we looked at the drivers trying to cope with our car last year after Massa's terrible accident. I think it shows how different the cars can be, and sometimes it suites a driver, some times not at all.

[Fiondella]

I am Tifosi and certainly don't have that opinion. His record is not tarnished, he came off his pedestal and has had the balls to race again, come next season in a car designed around him like in his Ferrari days we will be seeing a different MS. Should that not be the case, then it only proves that time waits for no man, but it will be a long time before any man matches let alone beats his best records, most of which are in the history books as a FERRARI driver.

Personally I don't think he'll be racing next year but if does he'll still be beaten by rosberg. Like I said fantastic career nevertheless a has been IMO

[Fiondella]

Why not..he is a born racer and if there is a chance to race in F1..he can....He did go to Merc only after there was no chance with Ferrari...

The move with Rubens was great..bothe drivers knew how much room the give for each other at 200mph...its professionalism..

If he wins the next 2 WDC's this year would not be a waste...and I dont think Michael came back for any records...he just came back to win..ans it noway devalues what he won with us
Don't be ridiculus, most expert opinion differs from your view and in that case why was he penalised? WDC! Dream on mate

[brembo man]

Does what your saying account for the drivers we have now also ? cause if what your saying is true then all drivers driving for Ferrari is bums.
At least they are all equal :-)

How can you think of calling Alonso a bum? He's a proven winner in our current car which can't compare with the ride the chin had back then. Todays Merc and our car are about equal and Alonso gets the most out of his ride , while that bum can't even catch his young teamate in the same car even with Ross on his side. He needs Todt and his radio if he wants to beat Nico and that ain't gonna happen. Remember Alonso whopped the chin twice, and now we have him. Your dead wrong saying our drivers are bums.

[mad_ani]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGEALGdlWxw
How can you think of calling Alonso a bum? He's a proven winner in our current car which can't compare with the ride the chin had back then. Todays Merc and our car are about equal and Alonso gets the most out of his ride , while that bum can't even catch his young teamate in the same car even with Ross on his side. He needs Todt and his radio if he wants to beat Nico and that ain't gonna happen. Remember Alonso whopped the chin twice, and now we have him. Your dead wrong saying our drivers are bums.

The F10's development started by August last year...while Brawn02 which is rebranded Merc was designed on s shoestring budget much later...and they have had their own problems of dealing with tire issues etc...If a car does not suit a drivers style of driving, no matter what he does...he cant get the best..(do u remember where Alonso was in a Renault??? after his Mclaren year...and also in 2009??)


...MS came in much after the development of the car had started...

and MS is 41 and competing with the people 15-16 younger..so what if his entire comeback fails...atleast he tried..maybe he likes to do what he likes most...he still quite fresh after the race while we see the like of Webber etc panting for breath...

and MS is a proven winner as well and without Todt on the radio...Todt want at Benetton..Briatore was...

[fubar]

Lewis isn't good enough. I'd rather have Kimi back if we have to go down that route again!

You cant mean that????

[Tifosi]

Why not..he is a born racer and if there is a chance to race in F1..he can....He did go to Merc only after there was no chance with Ferrari...

The move with Rubens was great..bothe drivers knew how much room the give for each other at 200mph...its professionalism..

If he wins the next 2 WDC's this year would not be a waste...and I dont think Michael came back for any records...he just came back to win..ans it noway devalues what he won with us

so why did the stewards penalise him for "illegitimately impeding" Barras and why did MS agree that they were right to do so if it was such a professional and undangerous thing to do?

[mad_ani]

so why did the stewards penalise him for "illegitimately impeding" Barras and why did MS agree that they were right to do so if it was such a professional and undangerous thing to do?

Well I never judged whether the move was legal or not, mate...

All I said it was a great one for the fact that the two oldest drivers carried it out so well..giving each other just enough room..it was dangerous...but right to the edge...

[Lesky]

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/23500/Michael-Schumacher--23952.jpg

When Michael loses his hair, at least he will have his driving ;-)

[Tifosi]

Well I never judged whether the move was legal or not, mate...

All I said it was a great one for the fact that the two oldest drivers carried it out so well..giving each other just enough room..it was dangerous...but right to the edge...

You said it was professionalism - it wasn't.

[Effone]

The boy won 5 titles with us. The car, Ferrari, thats how he won. We were unbeatable. Without Ferrari he's a bum. Even Ross can't help him win. Do you get it now? MS, Ferrari = champion. No Ferrari, MS = a Bum. I'm upset that he almost took out my buddy Rubens, and got away with it. At least when he messed with Senna, he got slapped and choked in front of all that were present. Senna then let go of him, that's professionalism, he gave him just enough room to breath.

You seriously need to up your medication.. :lol

[kaidu]

=Lesky;61When Michael loses his hair, at least he will have his driving ;-)

is there any hope he´ll finish driving after this season?

i would like to remember him like he was 2004 when he was still ferrari champ :-)

[brembo man]

You seriously need to up your medication.. :lol

Red Bull and Remy, check it out!

[aroutis]

How can you think of calling Alonso a bum? He's a proven winner in our current car which can't compare with the ride the chin had back then. Todays Merc and our car are about equal and Alonso gets the most out of his ride , while that bum can't even catch his young teamate in the same car even with Ross on his side. He needs Todt and his radio if he wants to beat Nico and that ain't gonna happen. Remember Alonso whopped the chin twice, and now we have him. Your dead wrong saying our drivers are bums.

Today 's Merc and our car are about equal ?

Joking are you or are you clueless? Merc are eons behind Ferrari in terms of performance.

[Tifosi]

How can you think of calling Alonso a bum? He's a proven winner in our current car which can't compare with the ride the chin had back then. Todays Merc and our car are about equal and Alonso gets the most out of his ride , while that bum can't even catch his young teamate in the same car even with Ross on his side. He needs Todt and his radio if he wants to beat Nico and that ain't gonna happen. Remember Alonso whopped the chin twice, and now we have him. Your dead wrong saying our drivers are bums.

Is that seriously an opinion? That the merc and the Ferrari are comparable?

btw, who were you supporting between 1996 and 2006? Your vehement dislike of the key players in the Ferrari glory years suggests that it wasn't supporting Ferrari!

[killer]

Ok this is not a thread to drag up the past, but the BBC today were saying there was rumours about Kubica going to Mercedes to replace MS, who they said was being pushed into retiring again, they said the rumours were probably not very true but still, will Mercedes stick with MS or will they and he both decide it's just not working out as they hoped?

It ought to come down to the main reason Mercedes took him on--was it the experience that came with him or was it the Schumacher legacy?

Now, what's crucial is if Mercedes have switched development efforts to focus on 2011. If they have, then they're banking on the work Michael is now putting in. This also logically points to what they needed more from Michael. However, it's still a gamble for Mercedes: surely it can't make sense to pay someone who is essentially a test/development driver a world champion's salary.

If Michael takes a considerable pay cut, I can see him staying on next year.

[brembo man]

Is that seriously an opinion?

who were you supporting between 1996 and 2006? Your vehement dislike of the key players in the Ferrari glory years suggests that it wasn't supporting Ferrari!

I was trying to support Rubens. He drove for Ferrari at the time. He was vehemently disliked by most Ferrari fans even though he was a key player in the Ferrari glory years.

[brembo man]

Today 's Merc and our car are about equal ?

Joking are you or are you clueless? Merc are eons behind Ferrari in terms of performance.

Your forgetting that Merc has Michael driving there car. That makes them as good as any car on the track, even Ferrari. He's a 7x world champion. Wake up!

[mad_ani]

Your forgetting that Merc has Michael driving there car. That makes them as good as any car on the track, even Ferrari. He's a 7x world champion. Wake up!

Maybe you dont realise that Merc is was down on performance and speed...Just because there is a WDC in the car does not make a car go quicker or perform better...maybe Michael was use to a lot more testing and used to find his balance in the car...

Where was Alonso, Kimi and hamilton in early part of 2009?? Its not just the drivers....but also the car and its basic design...Merc got their weight distribution wrong from the very start and have struggled since... Remember its a different tire this year .. narrower fronts...and less grip there...maybe it does not suit their drivers ....Rosberg has also struggled in some circuits....but has consistently been faster than Michael by 0.4s
:-)

[brembo man]

I see your point. But it's Michael were talking about. We won all those championships because of him, not our car. Him in a Merc just makes it the better car on the track.

[mad_ani]

I see your point. But it's Michael were talking about. We won all those championships because of him, not our car. Him in a Merc just makes it the better car on the track.

We won those championships as a result of a great team effort and also due to Michael's commitment and hard work....we had a great car in those years and Michael flawlessly brought in those titles...but F1 is not a 1 man show...although we only see the drivers as superstars...Behind the scenes, there are 100's of very well trained enginners who do CFD/FEA...composite design and drive train to make the car as fast as it is..Ferrari had great leaders like RB,JT,Rory Bryne who also contributed to the teams success.

Mclaren had a faster car in 2005, but were nowhere as reliable costing them titles...same in 2003 as well where Kimi came close to winning.Again, reliability costing them again...

2004 was good..Ferrari had the fastest car and Rubens came in second there as well..

Merc has a lot of design issues and was designed when Brawn had less cash...so Michael alone cannot save them

[Ant Raikkonen]

Mclaren had a faster car in 2005, but were nowhere as reliable costing them titles...same in 2003 as well where Kimi came close to winning.Again, reliability costing them again


If memory serves, Mclaren in 2005 didn't have the "fastest car" until Barcelona but yeah, it was woefully unreliable :-(. By that point Alonso had a bit of a lead anyway (maybe 20 points?)

Again, if i remember right, In '03 the Mclaren in Kimi's hands wasn't unreliable as such. The problem was pace. I remember thinking "he might cling on for the WDC but the car's just not quick enough compared to JPM's Williams and Schumacher's Ferrari"

I think Kimi stayed in the hunt until the death because he had good strike-rate results wise...lots of podiums etc but in a lot of races that car just missed that extra bit of pace for more wins.

IMO Kimi drove solidly that year, but with just one win (at Sepang) he did not deserve the WDC but it was bloody close :clap

[Aussie]

Keep shumi in I love him getting smashed by ferrari

[eriknaa]

The main problem this year, is that the Merc was already finished when Michael joined the team in Descember, and this year the basics was just wrong.
So next year, it will most likley be back to beeing competitive, and so wil Michael.
And then we will see more results of his development input.

[brembo man]

Imagine Nico in a better car next year! He's doing a job on MS now.Unless Ross sends Nico out in a car approved by Mickey.

[WRX202]

http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/349905/Berger_backs_Schumacher_move_on_Barrichello/

Berger backs Schumacher move on Barrichello
Friday 13th August 2010, 17:58

Gerhard Berger has defended Michael Schumacher's move on Rubens Barrichello at the Hungarian GP, saying such a thing happened 'three times a lap' in his day.

Berger, who has previously driven for Ferrari, McLaren and Benetton before becoming part team owner of the Toro Rosso outfit, before selling his half back to Red Bull owner Dietrich Matezchitz, told the Austrian newspaper, Tiroler Tageszeitung, that he'd have thought nothing of the a move, suggesting that Formula One has become easier in recent times.

"We drove harder and more brutally," he said. "Three times a lap we drove each other into the walls without complaining.

"This was just part of it. We would have thought nothing of an action like Michael's against Barrichello."

The FIA however did think something of the incident and penalised Schumacher with a 10-place grid drop for the next race in Belgium.

[Tifosi]

Gerhard setting himself up to be the new Niki Lauder there :roll

[Salvador Dali]

Well I for one do belive or rather remember that what Berger said is true. MS did the same thing to Ralf and nothing happened.

And to say Gerhard is the new Niki is also not true (IMHO) since Niki would say that things like that never happened when he still drove F1... :lou

[NJB13]

Clearly what MS did was dangerous and even more clearly he broke the rules - you can't force a driver off the track.
What I find dissappointing is that the stewards/race director are "selective" about when they follow rules. For F1 to really improve these substandard officials need to be dealt with.
I said it before and I'll say it again - funny that no-one suggested RB should give back the place.

[Greig]

Let's not turn this into a general MS thread please :-)

[fubar]

The main problem this year, is that the Merc was already finished when Michael joined the team in Descember, and this year the basics was just wrong.
So next year, it will most likley be back to beeing competitive, and so wil Michael.
And then we will see more results of his development input.

So true;)

[justjesper]

Greig you should know :The Thread is : Michael Schumacher and his Mercedes drive.... : you made it :lol

To what Gerhard Berger said.

I also think that there is being handed penalties out left and right. And perhaps the FIA need to look at them self and realize that there is almost no racing left.
This is not only in this incident with Michael Schumacher, it has been going on now for way to long.
The FIA is almost like one of those security guys that need to demonstrate his power because of his small (something) syndrome .

There are to many penalties handed out after the race. They have so many people looking at it and even old drivers to give there insight on what is going on, so they should be able to work stuff out faster. And with Michael they could had handed him a drive thru. or nothing as he left just enough space for rubens.

This incident with Rubens has been done so many times. I think Webber is the one who has done it most and has never been penalized.
So yes I think it way to harsh, and the FIA is dicking them selfs in to handing out more and more penalties as now everyone has to drive with silk gloves and not doing anything.
The sport has become to clean in that sense.

[Greig]

And what your posting has nothing to do with his drive.....never mind, if you want to discuss the incident in Hungary use the Hungarian GP thread :-)