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Ste
27th June 2010, 15:06
Build-up

Ferrari brought quite a raft of updates here this weekend. New front wing, new exhaust system, new diffuser. The package was expected to gain us 7 tenths of a second and I also read that we would have an 80% increase in downforce. Clearly the latter is in-correct, but I think we probably bought 5 tenths of a second. The updates worked well, all without problems.

Free-Practice

Ferrari did their usual thing of running fairly heavy in the first session before topping the time sheets in FP2 with a solid time. FP3 was pretty good as well and we looked all set for Qualifying. Our pace on the softs was no better than on the hards, while everyone else looked to gain about 2 tenths from the extra grip.

Qualifying

Qualifying was disappointing for us. We expected Pole or at least the front-row but ended up 4th and 5th after a fairly poor lap from Alonso. The grip disappeared and this is all we could manage.

Mercedes had an even poorer session. Rosberg down in 12th and Schumacher in 15th. Schumacher apparently had a Power Steering issue that caused the car to pull to the left. I doubt that would have made a difference to his lap time, since his teammate was only 3 positions ahead and had been 7 tenths or so quicker for the entire weekend.

Vettel pulled out another great lap, taking Pole, with Webber just behind in P2. Button made an error in the final corner which surely cost him a chance of P3.

Still, there was a 57 lap race ahead so our chances of victory weren't lost just yet.

The first few laps:

Hamilton passed Webber, Alonso passed Webber, Massa passed Webber. So did everyone up to P8. Hamilton hit Vettel into turn 1, but blamed the incident on Vettel for some reason. Both of them got sideways out of the corner, allowing Alonso alongside. They were very close to contact going into Turn 4 but Alonso wasn't able to get past.

Alonso and Massa dropped back from Hamilton in the first few laps but was making up time and closing in on Hamilton up until lap 15.

What happened at the pitstops?

Button and co were the first to pit, they arrived at the pit lane and knew the SC was out so they came in. They pitted a lap earlier than everyone else.

Vettel and Hamilton arrived in the pits, but Alonso was nowhere to be seen. Alonso was in the pits as Hamilton and Vettel exited. But we were previously just a second behind Hamilton, where had we lost 15s to them?

We stacked our cars in the pits, and they did a fantastic job. Massa lost virtually nothing and they both got out quickly.

Vettel rejoined in P1, Hamilton in P2, but Alonso was way down and Massa in P17.

The Safety-Car trouble

Vettel was quick, he passed the safety car before it even came out of the main pit exit. Hamilton backed off on the pit straight, unsure whether to pass or not. Then he suddenly decided to bolt and overtook the Safety Car after the SC exit line. Alonso stayed back behind the safety car, as per the rules.

Alonso complained on the radio and sounded pretty angry, the team telling him to calm down on more than one occasion.

Hamilton's Penalty and the outcome

The Stewards investigated the incident and found Hamilton to be guilty. We all knew about the incident after about 2 minutes, but for some reason the Stewards took about 20 laps to realise what he had done. Why? They are a large team of people who have access to every replay on every car from every angle. They didn't see it, yet we all knew he had done something to have gained all that time. The FIA and Stewards were shocking yet again.

They decided to give him a drive through penalty. Which would have been fine if they'd given it after a lap or two laps, but they took far, far longer. By this point, Hamilton had pulled a huge gap on Alonso who was stuck in traffic. The penalty therefore had basically no effect, putting Hamilton just 15 seconds behind the leader and still in P2.

Red Bull gives you wings, or rather, Kovalainen does

Let's just be sure here, the incident was just a racing incident, however bad it was.

Alonso was in the slipstream of the Lotus, which is already down on top-speed and at the time was lapping about 4 seconds per lap slower than Webber. Webber wasn't expecting Kovalainen to brake so early, he brakes at about 110 metres, compared to Webbers 100m/95m. The closing speed was phenomenal, Webber had no chance to avoid and ended up creaming into the back of the Lotus, taking off, flipping, hitting the advertising hoarding, rolling, before eventually sliding at high speed into the wall.

That was a 190mph+ accident, yet Webber was immediately furious, out of the car and walking away. However much we dislike some of the crazy safety regulations, the way that monocoque held up was incredible. Hardly any damage, all things considered. And thank goodness for the run-offs, which probably slowed his speed by 80mph before he bounced off the tyres.

The rest of the race

Our pace wasn't bad, neither was McLaren's or Red Bulls - but they weren't tucked up in a far slower group. Before the Safety Car, Alonso was quickest of all, but behind these slower cars, we were unable to pass. Getting past a Force India with great straight line speed is near impossible anywhere, but even harder here. All we could do was bring the car home or wait for mistakes.

Backmarkers

Yet again, they were pretty shocking. Nearly costing Kobayashi a place to Button because of their continued scrap. The HRT and Virgin cars in that incident should have been penalised, not only for not moving out of the way of the leaders despite being blue flagged, but for such poor driving.

9 cars under investigation

9 cars were put under investigation after the race due to not hitting their delta lap time when the Safety Car was deployed. Button was the big name involved in the investigation. The outcome of this is still to be decided. The Safety Car is there for a reason, respecting the rules under it should be a priority, so if they aren't penalised then it's yet another poor decision from the stewards.

The Championship

We fell yet further back after this race. Hamilton leads from Button on 127 and 121 points respectively, with the Red Bulls of Vettel and Webber in P3 and P4. Alonso takes P5 in the championship, sitting 31 points behind the leader. Whilst this isn't a massive margin under the new points system, it remains too big of a difference, we shouldn't be this far behind. We've been incredibly unlucky in 5 races so far this season and out position in the championship doesn't reflect the results we should have had.

Hamilton cheating

We spoke about this after the previous race, but he's had about 4 reprimands so far this season and then today the diabolical Safety Car moment. He got penalised today, but the outcome of the penalty meant he might as well not have had it, it made zero difference to the result - where it should have. If Alonso was P9, Hamilton should have been with him, not in P2.

I'm completely fed up of the number of times he gets warnings and no penalties, or penalties that aren't in line with the infraction. How many times does he have to do these things before someone actually makes an effort to penalise him properly? People say Schumacher was bad, that he made many errors but I see more coming from Hamilton than I ever did from Schumacher.

After the race, during the weigh-in, he spoke to Vettel about the contact into Turn 1. He essentially told Vettel it was his fault, when it clearly wasn't. He was then asked about the Safety Car incident, to which he replied "I don't remember much about it". Fed up of this lying, cheating, smug, arrogant little prat.

:-)

hogo
27th June 2010, 15:45
This penalty probably negated other 4 reprimands so yeah he can do whatever he wants again!

Suzie
27th June 2010, 15:54
Lewis never remembers when he has done something wrong. Selective amnesia, he should start getting more Omega-3 to help with his memory.
I can fully understand why Fernando and Ferrari are angry, but at the end of the day Lewis served his penalty. Even though the decision from the stewards came too slowly, I don't buy into any conspiracy. The FIA have been accused of pro-Ferrari bias for years so it's odd to see them getting accused of the opposite now!

It was an exciting race by Valencia standards. Kobayashi lucked into a top position for most of the race due to the safety car but it was a great performance from him. Really glad Webber is alright, that was one of the most frightening crashes I have ever seen.

I suppose the only positives that we can take is that we were well on for a double podium until the safety car. Felipe and Fernando both made great starts and our pace was good. Here's to Silverstone.

Silent Bob
27th June 2010, 18:03
well I guess a precedent has been set then. Cars may as well pass the SC if the penalty is not going to cause a demotion in place. The advantage gained by Hamilton by passing the SC was huge. It was the team that raced by the books that got screwed today. Neither of the Ferrari's passed the SC and neither missed their delta times... yet it was the Ferraris that were handed the biggest penalties of the race. why have the rules if the penalties don't punish the offenders?

Nova
27th June 2010, 18:29
I dont understand..the SC came out ahead of the Ferrari's...Shouldnt the SC had waved everyone thru until Vettel came around? Then the SC would have the cars at the classification
at which the accident occurred??? I dont understand how the Ferrari's ended up so far behind everyone???? Talk about getting screwed...

Plus, I think the updates added something, then again, our race pace just seemed average...

Greig
27th June 2010, 18:32
Can't really be sure about our upgrades, but before the SC Alonso was quickest and was right up with Lewis.

Agron
27th June 2010, 18:35
The problem is, if any other team did the same, they would be shown the penalty in a matter of very few laps. As Alonso's quick start penalty proves.
They allow it because it's McLaren and it's Hamilton, they want a british 2x WDC and they are going to engineer it.

Suzie
27th June 2010, 19:37
They allow it because it's McLaren and it's Hamilton, they want a british 2x WDC and they are going to engineer it.

But if people honestly believe that F1 is all a massive conspiracy then why bother watching? :-)
Anyway Vettel is the one that Bernie favours, so why not penalise Lewis more severely, letting Vettel take an easier win.

hogo
27th June 2010, 19:52
But if people honestly believe that F1 is all a massive conspiracy then why bother watching? :-)
oh come on, you, the one who has almost 4000 posts should know! One word - FERRARI. Even if track has horrible layout e.g. with no places for overtaking and there's no chance for rain, we still watch those races cos this is what Ferrari tifosi do. Even now when we see how FIA is engineering new WDC, we still watch this sport cos this is where Ferrari team is participating!
Actually its much easier to cope with such unfairness when you have minimal hopes for a good result. Concentrate all your attention on the red cars only and ignore everything else. In other words - care about F1 as little as possible but care enough for Ferrari!

Suzie
27th June 2010, 20:04
Okay I stand corrected then :-)

epiclyaddicted
27th June 2010, 20:25
I dont understand..the SC came out ahead of the Ferrari's...Shouldnt the SC had waved everyone thru until Vettel came around? Then the SC would have the cars at the classification
at which the accident occurred??? I dont understand how the Ferrari's ended up so far behind everyone???? Talk about getting screwed...

Plus, I think the updates added something, then again, our race pace just seemed average...

That's exactly what I was wondering, and asked the same question in the race thread as well. As far as I'm aware, the safety car is supposed to let everyone pass until it picks up the race leader. Don't know if the safety car regs have changed recently or not...

Actually, I'll try having a look at the SC regs on the F1 website to see if I can find something regarding this.

REDARMYSOJA
27th June 2010, 20:32
Can't really be sure about our upgrades, but before the SC Alonso was quickest and was right up with Lewis.

Agreed. I'm thinking they'll make more difference on the higher speed circuits.

Agron
27th June 2010, 20:51
But if people honestly believe that F1 is all a massive conspiracy then why bother watching? :-)
Anyway Vettel is the one that Bernie favours, so why not penalise Lewis more severely, letting Vettel take an easier win.Are you taking a dig at me? can you honestly said the powers that be haven't historically altered results through penalties to have closer championships or benefitted/harmed some teams over others to make the sport more watchable?
RB could have almost secured the WCC and WDCs already with good reliability and no drivers mistakes, I don't think it's that insane to think they would want a third or fourth party to have chances until the end, in this case Hamilton.

Suzie
27th June 2010, 20:54
Are you taking a dig at me?

No, not at all dude! Was just making the point that if everything is being manipulated and pre-determined then what's the point in watching it. :-)

Rob
27th June 2010, 21:01
I dont understand..the SC came out ahead of the Ferrari's...Shouldnt the SC had waved everyone thru until Vettel came around? Then the SC would have the cars at the classification
at which the accident occurred??? I dont understand how the Ferrari's ended up so far behind everyone???? Talk about getting screwed...

Plus, I think the updates added something, then again, our race pace just seemed average...

Vettel was on the main straight as SC was called. So really he should of slowed down and SC picked him up at second corner. Then we wouldnt have all this silly stupid mess.

We were running well. Very well. We had as always great long stint pace, the tyres coming to us in later in race. Silverstone will be good for us, the updates will work there well. F1 doesnt need anymore of these stupid rulings, make it laughing stock of a sport. Silly how in China Alonso gets drive thro penalty for jump start, yeah it wrong but not breaching safety rules, but Hamilton SC and the other drivers speeds around to pits, breaking the safety speed set by FIA. Could endanger marshalls and they get a slap on wrist i.e 5 second penalty. WRONG!!! FIA very wrong, you cannt make 1 rule for us and then make another up for rest of field. :roll:-!

RockyRaccoon
27th June 2010, 21:14
That's exactly what I was wondering, and asked the same question in the race thread as well. As far as I'm aware, the safety car is supposed to let everyone pass until it picks up the race leader. Don't know if the safety car regs have changed recently or not...

Actually, I'll try having a look at the SC regs on the F1 website to see if I can find something regarding this.

I was under the impression that the SC was supposed to wave the leaders through and I thought it did but Alonso and Massa lost 15 seconds before they were waved through?

epiclyaddicted
27th June 2010, 21:43
I was under the impression that the SC was supposed to wave the leaders through and I thought it did but Alonso and Massa lost 15 seconds before they were waved through?

When the safety car was about to come out of the pits, the only four cars that were already past the pit entrance and on the main straight were Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso and Massa, in that order. Everyone behind them had enough time to see the SC deployed message and dive into the pits just as the SC was coming out. Vettel was already past when the SC was about to join the track and Hamilton sneaked past the SC when he should have held back. So as a result, Alonso and Massa got stuck behind the SC as Vettel and Hamilton raced around to the pits at full racing speed.

Looking at the SC regs on the F1 website, it says that the SC will join the track irrespective of where the race leader is and every car behind the SC should form a queue. All in all, the current SC regs is a huge farce!

Agron
27th June 2010, 21:46
No, not at all dude! Was just making the point that if everything is being manipulated and pre-determined then what's the point in watching it. :-)Ok, I find more enjoyable following a driver or team than the "sport" itself, be it because I can relate to them, because I admire their effort and success or because I like their personality. As such, even cr*p like this doesn't discourage me from watching, it just fires me up for Alonso and Ferrari to get the championships and give the middle finger to everyone else.
Don't get me wrong, the odd good race is very enjoyable to see, but usually it's only a bit better as entertainment than other sports, mainly because of all this manipulation and the many uneventful races.

Nova
27th June 2010, 22:00
Well it certainly appears the cards are stacked against Ferrari this year...I thought Jean Todt would bring welcome changes to F1..

Instead its as if its turned into a freeforall....for all except Ferrari....

And I may add, that no matter which team this happened to, it set a dangerous precedent, and clearly shows favoritism, unfairness and makes the series look
all the more manipulated...

Today was a disgrace to F1..Why dont they just give the championship to RB or Mac..theyre both British teams.....no offense to my British colleagues..but it sure does
look like a British series more n more.....What a stinky race....that was a vent..

Nova
27th June 2010, 22:17
I want to add, didnt anyone think it was odd Shue had a red pit light on his exit? It held him up quite a long
time and he lost quite a few places also....A lot of strange occurences for an odd race...mabey the word is blatant...

So today the stewards effectively screwed up a few peoples race...they took Alonso, Felipe and Shues race away...

FerrariF60
27th June 2010, 23:34
this would have never happened if they had the same rules as in 2008; that is to have the pit lane closed when the SC is deployed until they clear the track of debris
i mean the only reason they opened the pit lane while under SC in 2009 was because of drivers having run out of fuel during the safety car.

but now that there is NO more refueling, we could easily do with a CLOSED pit lane during safety car....WHAT DO U GUYS THINK....i personally think it would be a great ideea; and a MESS like this would never happen

flam147
28th June 2010, 00:13
:thumb
this would have never happened if they had the same rules as in 2008; that is to have the pit lane closed when the SC is deployed until they clear the track of debris
i mean the only reason they opened the pit lane while under SC in 2009 was because of drivers having run out of fuel during the safety car.

but now that there is NO more refueling, we could easily do with a CLOSED pit lane during safety car....WHAT DO U GUYS THINK....i personally think it would be a great ideea; and a MESS like this would never happen
was thinking this myself :thumb

Hermann
28th June 2010, 00:49
this would have never happened if they had the same rules as in 2008; that is to have the pit lane closed when the SC is deployed until they clear the track of debris
i mean the only reason they opened the pit lane while under SC in 2009 was because of drivers having run out of fuel during the safety car.

but now that there is NO more refueling, we could easily do with a CLOSED pit lane during safety car....WHAT DO U GUYS THINK....i personally think it would be a great ideea; and a MESS like this would never happen

They would find something else. Every time a 'loophole' is being closed, someone finds another one. Unfortunately, never Ferrari.


The incident with Hamilton occured at 14.19. The document with the DT was signed at 15.97.

It took them 48 minutes to sign that. 48 minutes to even realize something happened, rewatch the video, and impose a penalty.

What a luck Hamilton has. So much luck thats its almost unbelievable.

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/eur-document-38.pdf

Nova
28th June 2010, 01:03
So much luck that he will be WDC...thanks to the fia...

Mabey Charlie Whiting has lost his mind...

Tommy_F
28th June 2010, 06:44
Horrible, horrible race... and that's just how I feel, I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated the drivers and team feel.

Again, a race decided not by our pace or performance but by something else, in this case bad luck and poor stewarding. Overtaking the safety car what the heck?! What was that mindless idiot thinking?! But all this wouldn't have happened if the safety car just picked up the leader...in the pre-show they were boasting about a sophisticated GPS tracking system that tracks every car every safety car medical car etc. around the circuit. Couldn't they just use that data and send out the safety car that actually is ahead of the leader? They can take that system and shove it somewhere.

I'm so incredibly frustrated! We haven't had one clean weekend this season. Every weekend something has to go wrong:

Bahrain - engine changes, engines overheating
Australia - Fernando spins, stuck behind Felipe
Malaysia - messed up qualy, blown engine for Fernando
China - Fernando jump start
Spain - ok I guess, but not very good performance
Monaco - Fernando wrecks a car, starts from pit-lane
Turkey - horrible performance
Canada - potential race victory ruined by backmarkers and slower cars (and drivers impatience)
Valencia - where we seemed the most in form since Bahrain, Fernando sets FL then SC mess...

The updates are working now, we have more on the way and I really hope that things improve because this is just insane. Last year at least we knew the car was hopeless...this year we have the performance but still walk away from races with little points...

mad_ani
28th June 2010, 06:52
Did anyone see HRT being given way by the SC...??

Losticus
28th June 2010, 07:31
Long time lurker first time poster.

Among the after race penalties there is a 20 seconds penalty for Glock for ignoring blue flags, anyone knows who was held by Glock?

edit: OK, I've got it. You guess who was held up? Yes, him: http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/237861/glock-penalised-for-ignoring-blue-flags/

Now, please someone can tell me if Chandhok or Kovalainen received 20s penalties after Canada race for blocking Alonso?

hogo
28th June 2010, 08:20
They would find something else. Every time a 'loophole' is being closed, someone finds another one. Unfortunately, never Ferrari.

We did find a "loophole" with testing last week but FOTA is quick to readjust testing agreement so we no longer will be able to exploit this. With Ferrari its always like this, we invented cool wheel rims - they got banned not long after, we invented mirrors outside of cockpit, they got banned not long after, we invented awesome underbody (or how you call bottom of the car) and it got banned almost immediately and so on.