PDA

View Full Version : German Grand Prix Review



Ste
25th July 2010, 18:24
Here's my usual Race Weekend Review. :-)

Post Silverstone

We left Silverstone 2 weeks ago with a bitter taste in our mouths. The car was great, the drivers were performing well but we didn't get the result we wanted.

Never the less, Alonso said "we will win the Championships" and Massa was upbeat too. Both drivers knew coming into this weekend we would be strong. We bought with us more updates to the diffuser, a slightly adapted front wing and possibly that Red Bull constant exhaust flow system.

Practice

First practice wasn't too bad, Massa was fastest of the main guys although Sutil put in a good lap and took P1. Felipe looked very confident, finding the limit of the car and ultimately spinning and having a few off track excursions. Most people were off track at some point, Alonso was a fair way down the field, but overall the pace was there. The car looked to have pretty good traction in the stadium section and we were very quick through there all session.

Second practice went even better. Alonso was very quick and Massa was right on the pace as well. 1st and 3rd from this session looked very promising. Vettel split the Ferrari's in P2 just 3 hundredths behind Alonso.

Final practice was probably the most telling session and definitely the most exciting. The times at the top were changing on a lap by lap basis, with Massa and Alonso trading P1 times, with Vettel in the mix as well. Vettel eventually took the top spot in this session. The Red Bulls looked slower through S2 with us slightly slower in S3, but it was all pretty equal overall.

Alonso was the first man into the 15's, first man into the 14's and then in Qualifying the first man into the 13's. Very promising.

Qualifying

Thankfully, we were able to translate our practice pace into a good qualifying performance. Alonso was quickest in both Q1 and Q2 with Vettel hot on his heels. Massa was still on fire as well.

Schumacher went out in Q2 again and his estimation of being P5 in the race looked firmly out of the window, Rosberg made it in, just, being 0.008 ahead of his teammate.

The final session was tense and exciting. Vettel was first out, followed by Massa and then Hamilton. Vettel went quickest, Hamilton into P2 with Massa 3rd. Then Alonso went P1.

After the next runs, Massa put the car on provisional pole, only to be topped by Alonso and then Vettel shortly afterwards. Vettel had gone 0.136 faster than Alonso at this stage. Alonso was on his final run, going quickly, but came out of the final corner and veered to the right hand side. In my opinion this cost him pole, since he only lost out by 2 thousandths of a second - or 12cm.

Never the less, Qualifying was fantastic. Compared to the near 1 second gap to the Red Bulls at Silverstone, this 0.002 gap was somewhat closer. Massa had done a brilliant job to get the car on the second row ahead of Webber, despite his trouble heating up the tyres. P2 and P3 was a great result.

The Race

I don't think I've ever felt so nervous before the start of a Grand Prix. I think it's down to our bad luck and me hoping for it to end. We desperately needed a result today.

The start was epic. Both of our drivers got off the line extremely well, particularly Massa. Alonso was forced onto the pitwall but Vettel left a cars width. Massa simply drove around the outside of both of them and mugged them into Turn 1 with a calm and clinical overtake. I had chewed my fingernails right down already at this point and closed my eyes when I saw Alonso's front wing close to Massa's diffuser.

Vettel didn't have a chance to pass on the first lap thanks to our greater straight line speed. Massa led from Alonso and began his best drive of the season. This was the first time we've seen the 'old' Felipe this year. He's been erratic at time, unable to overtake people on occasions but today he was sublime. I'm glad to see him back to his best and hopefully that can continue at Hungary and onwards.

Both of our guys gapped Vettel slowly but comfortably, he didn't have an answer to our pace. It felt amazing to see our two drivers finally at the front of the field where they belong and should have been for the past couple of races.

It was pretty frantic. Massa was setting fastest laptimes, then Alonso was and then Massa again. I was watching Live Timing and it was just constant purple or PB sectors followed by Fastest Laps. Our drivers were so consistent, error free and calm. Vettel wasn't too far off the pace, but he gradually fell back.

Vettel came in first, pitting early on lap 12 I think. Ferrari countered that the following lap by bringing in Alonso and then Massa the lap after. We gapped him a bit more and came out a couple of seconds ahead.

Massa struggled to heat up the harder tyres for the first few laps, initially locking up 3 times on the first lap with them on, losing the rear at the hairpin and allowing Alonso to close.

Then was the part where I nearly had Heart Failure! We came up to backmarkers, with Vettel closing behind. Massa had already lost time behind one in the stadium. Alonso got incredibly close out of turn 2 and they passed one of the HRT's side by side going down the straight. Alonso was on the outside and Massa's defence was fantastic. Alonso pulled in to the left, Massa ran him out a little, the HRT was close to hitting Alonso and Vettel was extremely close to hitting one of the Virgins. Alonso slipstreamed Massa again out of the hairpin and made the wrong judgement trying to go on the inside into the following flat out right hander. He could probably have gone up the inside into the following left hander. I nearly closed my eyes again at this point, thankfully Alonso backed out of that move and held position.

I think it was around this point that Alonso said "this is ridiculous" over the radio. Clearly frustrated and at this stage slightly quicker.

Massa though, was having none of it, and gapped Alonso by around 3.5s. Taking a clear second out in a single lap. Whether Alonso was in fuel saving mode or something I don't know, but Massa was flying. Rob said to Felipe over the radio that they needed to keep the gap to Alonso behind, so he needed to push. I wonder if he had been told he had to stay consistently ahead without holding Alonso up - or they'd 'do the switch'. Who knows.

Then Alonso started to close quickly, suddenly setting purple sectors again and closing at around 3 tenths or so per lap. Then came the radio call from Rob. "OK, so, Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?". Massa moved over a lap or so later.

From this point, Alonso pulled away by around 3s, Vettel closed in on Massa as he got held up in more traffic and ultimately we came home with a 1-2, 43 points and a better championship position. We also came home with 1 unhappy driver, a $100,000 fine and a tarnished reputation.

The switch

There are 3 opinions here. The first is that the team was right to do what it did, for the drivers championship. The second is the team were wrong to deny Massa a certain victory. The third is that the team were wrong to do it at all.

I believe the first is true, but I also believe they handled it slightly wrong. I don't like the switching of positions at any time, especially when McLaren do it, but in this instance I agree with it. Mathematically, both of our drivers have a shot at the WDC still. Realistically however, it's only Alonso who has a chance to win it. He's far behind, but not too far. He needs every single point he can get. If we get to the end of the season and Alonso takes the title by a couple of points, I doubt anyone will be saying this was still the wrong call. Ferrari want to win both championships and only one of their drivers has a chance, so they'll do what they can do get him to win. Whether they do this again or not, I don't know - I doubt it.

I feel the switch today took nothing away from Massa's drive. He was fantastic and deserved the win. But when he looks at the situation after he's had a chance to cool down, he will realise they made the right call. If the roles were reversed, I'm sure he'd feel the same as Alonso does now. It's never going to be nice to give up victory, or take victory in this was from your friend and teammate. What I have taken from today is an even greater opinion of Felipe. What a guy! Not many people would have his attitude and whether he looked grumpy or not is besides the point. He played the team game and he did it very well. If he is ever in Alonso's situation, he will expect the favour to be repaid and I'm sure it will be. Let's not forget, this isn't the first time Massa has moved over or has been given a position by another teammate.

However, there wasn't ever really a call made by the team. And this is the sticking point. Nobody on the pitwall ever told Felipe to move over. It was a piece of information rather than an instruction. Rob told him Fernando was quicker, it was therefore Felipe's choice to move over. As Rob said - he was magnanimous. Again, it's the team game and Felipe is a team player. He knew what they expected and he would have known beforehand too.

Because of this, the way Massa let Alonso past was possibly wrong. Although the situation is awful and Massa would have felt like parking the car right then, the way Alonso went sailing blatantly past has probably caused the most up-roar. If Massa had blocked a brake into the hairpin and Alonso had gone past, nobody would have batted an eyelid. Of course, we aren't used to doing this, unlike McLaren and their 'fuel mixture 5 Heikki, fuel mixture 5' radio transmissions. Felipe was clearly annoyed and wanted the World to know he was moving over. Trouble is, that's made it all look worse. He's not to blame of course.

What Ferrari have come away with today is a driver who is 7 points closer to the top of the standings and the same points for the WCC as they would have had without the switch. The team wins in terms of Championship position. We just lose in terms of respect, reputation and support.

Ferrari have always been under the spotlight for things, let's not forget when we've had flexing rear wings or parking manoeuvres in Monaco which we backed, or whatever else. Ferrari's reputation has always been tarnished to some extent. The FIA used to be known as Ferrari International Assistance, for a reason.

Whether the call was wrong or right, the result and performance in Hockenheim this weekend has definitely been firmly extinguished. Our car was fantastic, the drivers were fantastic, the pit-crew, strategies and the race itself were all fantastic. Yet, we've come away with this.

Let's move onto Hungary. Massa will be strong, wanting to let the team and everyone else know he's got his speed back, Alonso will be on fire and we can challenge for the win again. The title isn't lost yet!

What the FIA need to do

The FIA have two options.

They can either completely ban team orders or they can completely allow them.

Team orders not being just position changes, but also orders such as 'hold position'. Let them race fair and square.

Alternatively, bring back team orders so that teams are allowed to move their drivers around IF they need to, for the sake of the championship. It's a team sport in the end, so if people don't like it IF this rule is made, then support someone else.

Greig
25th July 2010, 19:38
Great 1-2 ruined by that incident, not that I have a problem with it, but it's ruined the result just on the basis of everyone arguing on here when we should be brimming with positives. I can agree why Ferrari did it, it was not nice or fair on Massa but I understand why it was called. I don't think Massa or Rob done anything wrong, I felt really sorry for Rob to have to get Felipe to do that, must have been horrible for them both, Massa can hold his head high for a great race performance today, we all know he was the winner, just like he was our 2008 champ.

Tifosi
25th July 2010, 20:10
The race was bad. Ferrari look stupid and unprofessional (and the world watched them lie very badly) and the team looks divided - all for 7 points.

Blame whoever you like - it's still how it is.

Oh yeah, a great 1-2 and a fabulous car btw. Well done :thumb

Curbs
25th July 2010, 20:14
On the positive side, Alonso is our shot at the WDC title. But McL and Red Bull still have both their drivers pretty equal. So they will all take points from eachother, untill they decide who has a best shot at it. So Ferrari has an advantage to have reached this point earlier than the other 2 top teams.
And of course. Our car is up to speed. I hope it stays quick, and that this wasn´t a track that just made our car look good.

Greig
25th July 2010, 20:47
The race was bad. Ferrari look stupid and unprofessional (and the world watched them lie very badly) and the team looks divided - all for 7 points.

Blame whoever you like - it's still how it is.

Oh yeah, a great 1-2 and a fabulous car btw. Well done :thumb

If it was the other way round would you be so ashamed? I don't recall any outrage at Brazil 07, China 08 for instance, or shame on Ferrari?

GamD
25th July 2010, 20:48
The car has finally proven it self a winner, just hope the reliability will hold and give us both WDC and WCC, Massa and Alonso were by far the best out there all weekend for me. As most have pointed out Ferrari's well executed stunt today took the edge of true victory and the winning feeling for me.
I won't carry trolling on about the way it was done, whats done is done and I pray to every God or Being that exists the World Motorsport Council does not take it any further.
I personally feel that a lot of the things that were said on this forum today was said because we all love Ferrari and only want whats best, its clear we all have different views on how the WDC and WCC can and should be won.
Mcl and RB have pretty much been given a gambit card here, depending of the WMSC out come it will make it easier to push forward the team orders more openly. This will kinda be the president of how to execute team orders and what will punishment be if it is, 100k is a slap on the wrist fine, the real fine will be how other teams move on it.

Tifosi
25th July 2010, 21:05
If it was the other way round would you be so ashamed? I don't recall any outrage at Brazil 07, China 08 for instance, or shame on Ferrari?

Yes!

For the last time Greig, its half way through the season...... and yes I hated it when we did it in 02.

1 Race he deserved to win and it was disallowed.

I'm ashamed of how we look more than anything and how we clearly didn't make it clear to Massa or Smedley just where they stood.

Greig
25th July 2010, 21:08
Yes!

For the last time Greig, its half way through the season...... and yes I hated it when we did it in 02.

1 Race he deserved to win and it was disallowed.

so where do you draw your line about when it is allowed and not shameful? 11 races gone out of 19 is not really half way either ;-) Did he deserve to win Brazil 07?

ferrari4life
25th July 2010, 21:30
Let them all have their panties ties in knots including the so called Ferrari fans.. in the mean time hope they ignore the fact that we just got the pace figured out and maybe we can run away with back to back 1-2...then what will they complain about..

Silent Bob
25th July 2010, 21:34
Yes!

For the last time Greig, its half way through the season...... and yes I hated it when we did it in 02.

1 Race he deserved to win and it was disallowed.

I'm ashamed of how we look more than anything and how we clearly didn't make it clear to Massa or Smedley just where they stood.

The shame isn't in the move.. .it is in the execution. You have 2 people in Ferrari that aren't team players and have to let the world know. Kimi didn't complain when he let Massa through. 7 points are a lot, even the amount of wins have a bearing on the championship. even MS did what he had to for Eddie. Every drive has probably had to do it or will eventually... suck it up and do it for the team.

Tifosi
25th July 2010, 22:20
so where do you draw your line about when it is allowed and not shameful? 11 races gone out of 19 is not really half way either ;-) Did he deserve to win Brazil 07?

Last race comparisons are pointless really. It's clear what the team is doing. It would just have been nice for the fans i've they'd been honest and done it on lap 2 or summat or actually made it look like a team decision . Instead we had a repeat of our most shameful day in a decade.

I know you are playing Devil's advocate here :-) but the truth is that the team looks bad over this and it's unecessary. It's clear that there's no room for sentimentality but pretending that everything is hunky dory and that we havent damaged ourselves with this one isn't realistic either.

If I think the way we handled today was shameful then that's how I feel. Doesn't stop me being a Ferrari supporter. Just means I care about how the team handles itself. Watching endless interviews of lies wasn't fun, regardless of the points involved.

Greig
25th July 2010, 22:26
I know you are playing Devil's advocate here :-)

That's nice, be-little my opinion to suit your own :-?? I believe we done the right thing.

China 08 was not the last race, since last races are not acceptable to you :-) I don't recall you being ashamed back then, why not?

Mollydog
25th July 2010, 23:59
Here's my usual Race Weekend Review. :-)

Post Silverstone

We left Silverstone 2 weeks ago with a bitter taste in our mouths. The car was great, the drivers were performing well but we didn't get the result we wanted.

Never the less, Alonso said "we will win the Championships" and Massa was upbeat too. Both drivers knew coming into this weekend we would be strong. We bought with us more updates to the diffuser, a slightly adapted front wing and possibly that Red Bull constant exhaust flow system.

Practice

First practice wasn't too bad, Massa was fastest of the main guys although Sutil put in a good lap and took P1. Felipe looked very confident, finding the limit of the car and ultimately spinning and having a few off track excursions. Most people were off track at some point, Alonso was a fair way down the field, but overall the pace was there. The car looked to have pretty good traction in the stadium section and we were very quick through there all session.

Second practice went even better. Alonso was very quick and Massa was right on the pace as well. 1st and 3rd from this session looked very promising. Vettel split the Ferrari's in P2 just 3 hundredths behind Alonso.

Final practice was probably the most telling session and definitely the most exciting. The times at the top were changing on a lap by lap basis, with Massa and Alonso trading P1 times, with Vettel in the mix as well. Vettel eventually took the top spot in this session. The Red Bulls looked slower through S2 with us slightly slower in S3, but it was all pretty equal overall.

Alonso was the first man into the 15's, first man into the 14's and then in Qualifying the first man into the 13's. Very promising.

Qualifying

Thankfully, we were able to translate our practice pace into a good qualifying performance. Alonso was quickest in both Q1 and Q2 with Vettel hot on his heels. Massa was still on fire as well.

Schumacher went out in Q2 again and his estimation of being P5 in the race looked firmly out of the window, Rosberg made it in, just, being 0.008 ahead of his teammate.

The final session was tense and exciting. Vettel was first out, followed by Massa and then Hamilton. Vettel went quickest, Hamilton into P2 with Massa 3rd. Then Alonso went P1.

After the next runs, Massa put the car on provisional pole, only to be topped by Alonso and then Vettel shortly afterwards. Vettel had gone 0.136 faster than Alonso at this stage. Alonso was on his final run, going quickly, but came out of the final corner and veered to the right hand side. In my opinion this cost him pole, since he only lost out by 2 thousandths of a second - or 12cm.

Never the less, Qualifying was fantastic. Compared to the near 1 second gap to the Red Bulls at Silverstone, this 0.002 gap was somewhat closer. Massa had done a brilliant job to get the car on the second row ahead of Webber, despite his trouble heating up the tyres. P2 and P3 was a great result.

The Race

I don't think I've ever felt so nervous before the start of a Grand Prix. I think it's down to our bad luck and me hoping for it to end. We desperately needed a result today.

The start was epic. Both of our drivers got off the line extremely well, particularly Massa. Alonso was forced onto the pitwall but Vettel left a cars width. Massa simply drove around the outside of both of them and mugged them into Turn 1 with a calm and clinical overtake. I had chewed my fingernails right down already at this point and closed my eyes when I saw Alonso's front wing close to Massa's diffuser.

Vettel didn't have a chance to pass on the first lap thanks to our greater straight line speed. Massa led from Alonso and began his best drive of the season. This was the first time we've seen the 'old' Felipe this year. He's been erratic at time, unable to overtake people on occasions but today he was sublime. I'm glad to see him back to his best and hopefully that can continue at Hungary and onwards.

Both of our guys gapped Vettel slowly but comfortably, he didn't have an answer to our pace. It felt amazing to see our two drivers finally at the front of the field where they belong and should have been for the past couple of races.

It was pretty frantic. Massa was setting fastest laptimes, then Alonso was and then Massa again. I was watching Live Timing and it was just constant purple or PB sectors followed by Fastest Laps. Our drivers were so consistent, error free and calm. Vettel wasn't too far off the pace, but he gradually fell back.

Vettel came in first, pitting early on lap 12 I think. Ferrari countered that the following lap by bringing in Alonso and then Massa the lap after. We gapped him a bit more and came out a couple of seconds ahead.

Massa struggled to heat up the harder tyres for the first few laps, initially locking up 3 times on the first lap with them on, losing the rear at the hairpin and allowing Alonso to close.

Then was the part where I nearly had Heart Failure! We came up to backmarkers, with Vettel closing behind. Massa had already lost time behind one in the stadium. Alonso got incredibly close out of turn 2 and they passed one of the HRT's side by side going down the straight. Alonso was on the outside and Massa's defence was fantastic. Alonso pulled in to the left, Massa ran him out a little, the HRT was close to hitting Alonso and Vettel was extremely close to hitting one of the Virgins. Alonso slipstreamed Massa again out of the hairpin and made the wrong judgement trying to go on the inside into the following flat out right hander. He could probably have gone up the inside into the following left hander. I nearly closed my eyes again at this point, thankfully Alonso backed out of that move and held position.

I think it was around this point that Alonso said "this is ridiculous" over the radio. Clearly frustrated and at this stage slightly quicker.

Massa though, was having none of it, and gapped Alonso by around 3.5s. Taking a clear second out in a single lap. Whether Alonso was in fuel saving mode or something I don't know, but Massa was flying. Rob said to Felipe over the radio that they needed to keep the gap to Alonso behind, so he needed to push. I wonder if he had been told he had to stay consistently ahead without holding Alonso up - or they'd 'do the switch'. Who knows.

Then Alonso started to close quickly, suddenly setting purple sectors again and closing at around 3 tenths or so per lap. Then came the radio call from Rob. "OK, so, Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?". Massa moved over a lap or so later.

From this point, Alonso pulled away by around 3s, Vettel closed in on Massa as he got held up in more traffic and ultimately we came home with a 1-2, 43 points and a better championship position. We also came home with 1 unhappy driver, a $100,000 fine and a tarnished reputation.

The switch

There are 3 opinions here. The first is that the team was right to do what it did, for the drivers championship. The second is the team were wrong to deny Massa a certain victory. The third is that the team were wrong to do it at all.

I believe the first is true, but I also believe they handled it slightly wrong. I don't like the switching of positions at any time, especially when McLaren do it, but in this instance I agree with it. Mathematically, both of our drivers have a shot at the WDC still. Realistically however, it's only Alonso who has a chance to win it. He's far behind, but not too far. He needs every single point he can get. If we get to the end of the season and Alonso takes the title by a couple of points, I doubt anyone will be saying this was still the wrong call. Ferrari want to win both championships and only one of their drivers has a chance, so they'll do what they can do get him to win. Whether they do this again or not, I don't know - I doubt it.

I feel the switch today took nothing away from Massa's drive. He was fantastic and deserved the win. But when he looks at the situation after he's had a chance to cool down, he will realise they made the right call. If the roles were reversed, I'm sure he'd feel the same as Alonso does now. It's never going to be nice to give up victory, or take victory in this was from your friend and teammate. What I have taken from today is an even greater opinion of Felipe. What a guy! Not many people would have his attitude and whether he looked grumpy or not is besides the point. He played the team game and he did it very well. If he is ever in Alonso's situation, he will expect the favour to be repaid and I'm sure it will be. Let's not forget, this isn't the first time Massa has moved over or has been given a position by another teammate.

However, there wasn't ever really a call made by the team. And this is the sticking point. Nobody on the pitwall ever told Felipe to move over. It was a piece of information rather than an instruction. Rob told him Fernando was quicker, it was therefore Felipe's choice to move over. As Rob said - he was magnanimous. Again, it's the team game and Felipe is a team player. He knew what they expected and he would have known beforehand too.

Because of this, the way Massa let Alonso past was possibly wrong. Although the situation is awful and Massa would have felt like parking the car right then, the way Alonso went sailing blatantly past has probably caused the most up-roar. If Massa had blocked a brake into the hairpin and Alonso had gone past, nobody would have batted an eyelid. Of course, we aren't used to doing this, unlike McLaren and their 'fuel mixture 5 Heikki, fuel mixture 5' radio transmissions. Felipe was clearly annoyed and wanted the World to know he was moving over. Trouble is, that's made it all look worse. He's not to blame of course.

What Ferrari have come away with today is a driver who is 7 points closer to the top of the standings and the same points for the WCC as they would have had without the switch. The team wins in terms of Championship position. We just lose in terms of respect, reputation and support.

Ferrari have always been under the spotlight for things, let's not forget when we've had flexing rear wings or parking manoeuvres in Monaco which we backed, or whatever else. Ferrari's reputation has always been tarnished to some extent. The FIA used to be known as Ferrari International Assistance, for a reason.

Whether the call was wrong or right, the result and performance in Hockenheim this weekend has definitely been firmly extinguished. Our car was fantastic, the drivers were fantastic, the pit-crew, strategies and the race itself were all fantastic. Yet, we've come away with this.

Let's move onto Hungary. Massa will be strong, wanting to let the team and everyone else know he's got his speed back, Alonso will be on fire and we can challenge for the win again. The title isn't lost yet!

What the FIA need to do

The FIA have two options.

They can either completely ban team orders or they can completely allow them.

Team orders not being just position changes, but also orders such as 'hold position'. Let them race fair and square.

Alternatively, bring back team orders so that teams are allowed to move their drivers around IF they need to, for the sake of the championship. It's a team sport in the end, so if people don't like it IF this rule is made, then support someone else.

So hypothetical lets say there’s going to be anther 3 instances of a Ferrari 1-2 with Massa in the lead, are Ferrari going to make the call another three times? Or are they going to tell Massa to start going off track or make an extra pit call? This is verging on race fixing, especially if I put money down on Massa to win at a certain race and find due to a team call the winner was stopped from wining. Yep this is all good for the Ferrari image, wont be long now before we’re down at McLaren’s level

Ste
26th July 2010, 00:27
Ferrari didn't ask you to place a bet on Massa did they? If you fear it happening again, don't place one. Simple.

killer
26th July 2010, 03:06
It is what it is--at least we weren't too PC, dew drops, and rainbows about things. I get why the team had to call it like they did; some things just have to be done. I'm happy we have what looks to be a very strong package: the car drove like it was on rails and looked equally comfortable on the high-speed and low-speed sections, traction also looked solid. Definitely looking forward to the next two races before the break. Hungary should be a bit of a challenge but can be overcome; we should be strong in Belgium.

Nova
26th July 2010, 03:12
Is the influence of our "new hire" from mac being felt??? Guys supposed to be very good....

Oh, Im talking about the cars...theres so much talk about team orders that people are overlooking how good the cars looked today....AND they looked good the whole race..I mean we were setting
fastest lap times at the end, and thats a good sign..car is getting better......n we won...Im happy for that...

killer
26th July 2010, 03:23
Is the influence of our "new hire" from mac being felt??? Guys supposed to be very good....

Oh, Im talking about the cars...theres so much talk about team orders that people are overlooking how good the cars looked today....AND they looked good the whole race..I mean we were setting
fastest lap times at the end, and thats a good sign..car is getting better......n we won...Im happy for that...

Yeah and the drivers looked just comfortable and confident with the car, no? I really hope this is the turnaround we've been waiting for.

Rishu
26th July 2010, 04:21
Here's my usual Race Weekend Review. :-)

Post Silverstone

We left Silverstone 2 weeks ago with a bitter taste in our mouths. The car was great, the drivers were performing well but we didn't get the result we wanted.

Never the less, Alonso said "we will win the Championships" and Massa was upbeat too. Both drivers knew coming into this weekend we would be strong. We bought with us more updates to the diffuser, a slightly adapted front wing and possibly that Red Bull constant exhaust flow system.

Practice

First practice wasn't too bad, Massa was fastest of the main guys although Sutil put in a good lap and took P1. Felipe looked very confident, finding the limit of the car and ultimately spinning and having a few off track excursions. Most people were off track at some point, Alonso was a fair way down the field, but overall the pace was there. The car looked to have pretty good traction in the stadium section and we were very quick through there all session.

Second practice went even better. Alonso was very quick and Massa was right on the pace as well. 1st and 3rd from this session looked very promising. Vettel split the Ferrari's in P2 just 3 hundredths behind Alonso.

Final practice was probably the most telling session and definitely the most exciting. The times at the top were changing on a lap by lap basis, with Massa and Alonso trading P1 times, with Vettel in the mix as well. Vettel eventually took the top spot in this session. The Red Bulls looked slower through S2 with us slightly slower in S3, but it was all pretty equal overall.

Alonso was the first man into the 15's, first man into the 14's and then in Qualifying the first man into the 13's. Very promising.

Qualifying

Thankfully, we were able to translate our practice pace into a good qualifying performance. Alonso was quickest in both Q1 and Q2 with Vettel hot on his heels. Massa was still on fire as well.

Schumacher went out in Q2 again and his estimation of being P5 in the race looked firmly out of the window, Rosberg made it in, just, being 0.008 ahead of his teammate.

The final session was tense and exciting. Vettel was first out, followed by Massa and then Hamilton. Vettel went quickest, Hamilton into P2 with Massa 3rd. Then Alonso went P1.

After the next runs, Massa put the car on provisional pole, only to be topped by Alonso and then Vettel shortly afterwards. Vettel had gone 0.136 faster than Alonso at this stage. Alonso was on his final run, going quickly, but came out of the final corner and veered to the right hand side. In my opinion this cost him pole, since he only lost out by 2 thousandths of a second - or 12cm.

Never the less, Qualifying was fantastic. Compared to the near 1 second gap to the Red Bulls at Silverstone, this 0.002 gap was somewhat closer. Massa had done a brilliant job to get the car on the second row ahead of Webber, despite his trouble heating up the tyres. P2 and P3 was a great result.

The Race

I don't think I've ever felt so nervous before the start of a Grand Prix. I think it's down to our bad luck and me hoping for it to end. We desperately needed a result today.

The start was epic. Both of our drivers got off the line extremely well, particularly Massa. Alonso was forced onto the pitwall but Vettel left a cars width. Massa simply drove around the outside of both of them and mugged them into Turn 1 with a calm and clinical overtake. I had chewed my fingernails right down already at this point and closed my eyes when I saw Alonso's front wing close to Massa's diffuser.

Vettel didn't have a chance to pass on the first lap thanks to our greater straight line speed. Massa led from Alonso and began his best drive of the season. This was the first time we've seen the 'old' Felipe this year. He's been erratic at time, unable to overtake people on occasions but today he was sublime. I'm glad to see him back to his best and hopefully that can continue at Hungary and onwards.

Both of our guys gapped Vettel slowly but comfortably, he didn't have an answer to our pace. It felt amazing to see our two drivers finally at the front of the field where they belong and should have been for the past couple of races.

It was pretty frantic. Massa was setting fastest laptimes, then Alonso was and then Massa again. I was watching Live Timing and it was just constant purple or PB sectors followed by Fastest Laps. Our drivers were so consistent, error free and calm. Vettel wasn't too far off the pace, but he gradually fell back.

Vettel came in first, pitting early on lap 12 I think. Ferrari countered that the following lap by bringing in Alonso and then Massa the lap after. We gapped him a bit more and came out a couple of seconds ahead.

Massa struggled to heat up the harder tyres for the first few laps, initially locking up 3 times on the first lap with them on, losing the rear at the hairpin and allowing Alonso to close.

Then was the part where I nearly had Heart Failure! We came up to backmarkers, with Vettel closing behind. Massa had already lost time behind one in the stadium. Alonso got incredibly close out of turn 2 and they passed one of the HRT's side by side going down the straight. Alonso was on the outside and Massa's defence was fantastic. Alonso pulled in to the left, Massa ran him out a little, the HRT was close to hitting Alonso and Vettel was extremely close to hitting one of the Virgins. Alonso slipstreamed Massa again out of the hairpin and made the wrong judgement trying to go on the inside into the following flat out right hander. He could probably have gone up the inside into the following left hander. I nearly closed my eyes again at this point, thankfully Alonso backed out of that move and held position.

I think it was around this point that Alonso said "this is ridiculous" over the radio. Clearly frustrated and at this stage slightly quicker.

Massa though, was having none of it, and gapped Alonso by around 3.5s. Taking a clear second out in a single lap. Whether Alonso was in fuel saving mode or something I don't know, but Massa was flying. Rob said to Felipe over the radio that they needed to keep the gap to Alonso behind, so he needed to push. I wonder if he had been told he had to stay consistently ahead without holding Alonso up - or they'd 'do the switch'. Who knows.

Then Alonso started to close quickly, suddenly setting purple sectors again and closing at around 3 tenths or so per lap. Then came the radio call from Rob. "OK, so, Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?". Massa moved over a lap or so later.

From this point, Alonso pulled away by around 3s, Vettel closed in on Massa as he got held up in more traffic and ultimately we came home with a 1-2, 43 points and a better championship position. We also came home with 1 unhappy driver, a $100,000 fine and a tarnished reputation.

The switch

There are 3 opinions here. The first is that the team was right to do what it did, for the drivers championship. The second is the team were wrong to deny Massa a certain victory. The third is that the team were wrong to do it at all.

I believe the first is true, but I also believe they handled it slightly wrong. I don't like the switching of positions at any time, especially when McLaren do it, but in this instance I agree with it. Mathematically, both of our drivers have a shot at the WDC still. Realistically however, it's only Alonso who has a chance to win it. He's far behind, but not too far. He needs every single point he can get. If we get to the end of the season and Alonso takes the title by a couple of points, I doubt anyone will be saying this was still the wrong call. Ferrari want to win both championships and only one of their drivers has a chance, so they'll do what they can do get him to win. Whether they do this again or not, I don't know - I doubt it.

I feel the switch today took nothing away from Massa's drive. He was fantastic and deserved the win. But when he looks at the situation after he's had a chance to cool down, he will realise they made the right call. If the roles were reversed, I'm sure he'd feel the same as Alonso does now. It's never going to be nice to give up victory, or take victory in this was from your friend and teammate. What I have taken from today is an even greater opinion of Felipe. What a guy! Not many people would have his attitude and whether he looked grumpy or not is besides the point. He played the team game and he did it very well. If he is ever in Alonso's situation, he will expect the favour to be repaid and I'm sure it will be. Let's not forget, this isn't the first time Massa has moved over or has been given a position by another teammate.

However, there wasn't ever really a call made by the team. And this is the sticking point. Nobody on the pitwall ever told Felipe to move over. It was a piece of information rather than an instruction. Rob told him Fernando was quicker, it was therefore Felipe's choice to move over. As Rob said - he was magnanimous. Again, it's the team game and Felipe is a team player. He knew what they expected and he would have known beforehand too.

Because of this, the way Massa let Alonso past was possibly wrong. Although the situation is awful and Massa would have felt like parking the car right then, the way Alonso went sailing blatantly past has probably caused the most up-roar. If Massa had blocked a brake into the hairpin and Alonso had gone past, nobody would have batted an eyelid. Of course, we aren't used to doing this, unlike McLaren and their 'fuel mixture 5 Heikki, fuel mixture 5' radio transmissions. Felipe was clearly annoyed and wanted the World to know he was moving over. Trouble is, that's made it all look worse. He's not to blame of course.

What Ferrari have come away with today is a driver who is 7 points closer to the top of the standings and the same points for the WCC as they would have had without the switch. The team wins in terms of Championship position. We just lose in terms of respect, reputation and support.

Ferrari have always been under the spotlight for things, let's not forget when we've had flexing rear wings or parking manoeuvres in Monaco which we backed, or whatever else. Ferrari's reputation has always been tarnished to some extent. The FIA used to be known as Ferrari International Assistance, for a reason.

Whether the call was wrong or right, the result and performance in Hockenheim this weekend has definitely been firmly extinguished. Our car was fantastic, the drivers were fantastic, the pit-crew, strategies and the race itself were all fantastic. Yet, we've come away with this.

Let's move onto Hungary. Massa will be strong, wanting to let the team and everyone else know he's got his speed back, Alonso will be on fire and we can challenge for the win again. The title isn't lost yet!

What the FIA need to do

The FIA have two options.

They can either completely ban team orders or they can completely allow them.

Team orders not being just position changes, but also orders such as 'hold position'. Let them race fair and square.

Alternatively, bring back team orders so that teams are allowed to move their drivers around IF they need to, for the sake of the championship. It's a team sport in the end, so if people don't like it IF this rule is made, then support someone else.

Everybody knows that Ferrari are lying & team orders were given. It is evident from the subdued podium celebration & Massa’s undiplomatic statements at the post race press conference. Being an Alonso fan, I think Fernando should be thankful to Felipe. IMO, banning team orders is ridiculous. Its upto a team to decide who is their best shot at WDC. Lets face it FIA cannot control this, every team does it. People like Christian Horner who are making comments that what Ferrari did was wrong should rather shut up & concentrate on their own internal driver issues. If a gun is put to my head & asked who is to be blamed for this saga, I would probably say it was wrong choice of words by Rob Smedley, although I do feel for him, it must have been horrible feeling.

Tifosi
26th July 2010, 07:39
That's nice, be-little my opinion to suit your own :-?? I believe we done the right thing.

China 08 was not the last race, since last races are not acceptable to you :-) I don't recall you being ashamed back then, why not?

i wasn't belittling your opinion Greig but you are telling me that I shouldn't feel ashamed because of historical events!!!

Ferrari made me feel ashamed yesterday.That's it. I don't check my emotional history book to decide how to react to everything in life.

Truth is that we very well may have made the right decision, and as others have said - it's the execution of it that stinks. However, the fact remains that the circumstances of how it was done and handled make me feel ashamed. You probably assume that I don't blame Massa and Smedley for what they did and the truth is that I don't know WHO to blame. All I know is that the effect of the shambles we created for ourselves yesterday AS A TEAM made me feel ashamed.

It's not the Team Orders per se, or the intent of Ferrari (which I understand the reasoning behind totally) - it's the way they did it and the effect it had.

ali355
26th July 2010, 08:08
It made me feel quite nostalgic for the good old days of 02 and 04 (although it feels a little bit wrong to admit that:lol)... nah, it was a bit of a facepalm moment when Rob's voice came over the radio - I knew what was going to happen but it didnt make it any easier to watch!

Aside from that it was a great quali and start for both cars, and I spent a good 30 odd laps in a constant state of fear thinking something was about to go wrong especially with the rotten luck we have had over the last few races, but they team have done a cracking job for the car to be right up there slugging it out with the Red Bulls especially in Quali. The best bit of the whole race weekend was being so far ahead of the Mclarens at the end of the race, but I fear all those positives will be lost in the sea of "bloomin cheats" etc etc

Fiondella
26th July 2010, 09:04
Well done Ferrari fantastic Job and absolutely the right the decision. Team orders always has been and always should be part of the sport. Eddie Jordon was an embarrasment. My respect for David Coulthard has grown immensly over this weekend he had a level and objective opinion wrt to the decision.

I think we all felt a little sorry for Felipe but, the fact remains we need to maximise our potential of winning the championship. If Alonso wins the drivers championship with a slim margin, we all know that looking back this will have been a defining moment and salute the decision.

FORZA FERRARI:ferrarifl:ferrarifl:ferrarifl

Greig
26th July 2010, 09:20
i wasn't belittling your opinion Greig but you are telling me that I shouldn't feel ashamed because of historical events!!!

Ferrari made me feel ashamed yesterday.That's it. I don't check my emotional history book to decide how to react to everything in life.

Truth is that we very well may have made the right decision, and as others have said - it's the execution of it that stinks. However, the fact remains that the circumstances of how it was done and handled make me feel ashamed. You probably assume that I don't blame Massa and Smedley for what they did and the truth is that I don't know WHO to blame. All I know is that the effect of the shambles we created for ourselves yesterday AS A TEAM made me feel ashamed.

It's not the Team Orders per se, or the intent of Ferrari (which I understand the reasoning behind totally) - it's the way they did it and the effect it had.

You are claiming I was being devils advocate, suggesting I am just taking my opinion to argue, which is not the case, you can see the forum is divided, some liked it some never, does not make anyone right or wrong. I never told you anything, I am just questioning why you never felt shame at China 08 or Brazil 07 compared to today, the same thing happened we used team orders and everyone knew it, but there was no media outcry, and no shame from fans, so its puzzling me why?

China 08 was as blatant as yesterday but like I said there was no forum uproar about it, there was no FIA involvement, and no media outcry, so I have to wonder why :-) Yes we should have done it better yesterday but I guess there is no easy way to do it mid-race. I imagine now it will be done a lot easier if it happens in the next races.

arunkshrestha
26th July 2010, 09:41
You are claiming I was being devils advocate, suggesting I am just taking my opinion to argue, which is not the case, you can see the forum is divided, some liked it some never, does not make anyone right or wrong. I never told you anything, I am just questioning why you never felt shame at China 08 or Brazil 07 compared to today, the same thing happened we used team orders and everyone knew it, but there was no media outcry, and no shame from fans, so its puzzling me why?

China 08 was as blatant as yesterday but like I said there was no forum uproar about it, there was no FIA involvement, and no media outcry, so I have to wonder why :-) Yes we should have done it better yesterday but I guess there is no easy way to do it mid-race. I imagine now it will be done a lot easier if it happens in the next races.

Wasn't the #2 driver already mathematically out of the WDC race in 08 and 07? Massa in fact isn't that far behind Alonso in points. It's the points system that exaggerating the difference.

A win yesterday and a couple of more good results (we all know Massa goes well at Hungary), a couple of bad races for Alonso (surely he can't expect Massa to move over everytime), and Massa is level with Alonso.

Greig
26th July 2010, 09:48
Wasn't the #2 driver already mathematically out of the WDC race in 08 and 07? Massa in fact isn't that far behind Alonso in points. It's the points system that exaggerating the difference.

I think someone posted that had Massa won yesterday then he would need to win every race and Lewis DNF to win the title. It makes no difference does it, you cant say team orders are ok when mathematics say so, just like Jenson not being allowed to take the win in Turkey.

arunkshrestha
26th July 2010, 09:58
Well if Jenson wanted to take that win in Turkey then perhaps he should have made his pass stick? It's not like the team told him to give the place back or something. In any case, here is what the points look like under the old system

Hamilton - 65
Button - 58
Vettel - 55
Webber - 53
Alonso - 49
Kubica - 35
Massa - 34
Rosberg - 32
Schumacher - 13
Sutil - 11
Barichello - 10
Kobayashi - 5
Liuzzi - 2
Petrov - 2
Buemi - 1

So had Massa won it would be Massa 36, Alonso 47...
Drivers have overcome such deficit or greater in less than the remaining races before. It provides an inaccurate reflection of what a good job Massa is doing.

Greig
26th July 2010, 10:00
Jenson was firmly told to stop it we all heard the coded radio words and seen the way he just dropped off the back of Lewis :-) denying it is just silly, and we could say Massa could have not let Alonso pass yesterday just the same as Jenson could have ignored his team and passed Lewis.

The old points are not used anymore so they are not really relevant are they? But if you must then the points from Massa to Lewis is still massive and 2 points can be given back to him later if required then :-D

arunkshrestha
26th July 2010, 10:08
Once Hamilton put his racing cap on he took his place back like candy from a baby. Hamilton was under absolutely no pressure from Jenson for almost the whole of the race and weekend. You make it sound like Jenson could have easily passed Hamilton.

As for the old points, I just wante to show how the new points exaggerate the differences in points. Many say it was the right decision because Massa was miles behind Alonso. We'll he's not really. He's just a win or two away with Alonso having a bad race or two...

Tifosi
26th July 2010, 10:09
You are claiming I was being devils advocate, suggesting I am just taking my opinion to argue, which is not the case, you can see the forum is divided, some liked it some never, does not make anyone right or wrong. I never told you anything, I am just questioning why you never felt shame at China 08 or Brazil 07 compared to today, the same thing happened we used team orders and everyone knew it, but there was no media outcry, and no shame from fans, so its puzzling me why?

China 08 was as blatant as yesterday but like I said there was no forum uproar about it, there was no FIA involvement, and no media outcry, so I have to wonder why :-) Yes we should have done it better yesterday but I guess there is no easy way to do it mid-race. I imagine now it will be done a lot easier if it happens in the next races.

bad choice of words i guess :-??. Wasn't my intention Greig. Sorry.

The simple reason why yesterday is different from the other situations you cite, is that to the viewing public (Ferrari supporters or non-Ferrari supporters or casual viewers) it was clearly a fix that determined the outcome of the race. It's ALL about perception really.

As i've said, from my point of view, it wasn't the team orders that were the issue. It was the way it was handled and the outcome of it, which was as embarrassingly clear to view and makes my team look heartless, unprofessional, and rather naive. Unfortunately, that affects me, whether it should or shouldn't in the grand scheme of things.

Now I know that Massa is No.2 driver to the exclusion of all else, I can deal with that in my own way.

Greig
26th July 2010, 10:09
Once Hamilton put his racing cap on he took his place back like candy from a baby. Hamilton was under absolutely no pressure from Jenson for almost the whole of the race and weekend. You make it sound like Jenson could have easily passed Hamilton.

LOL because of the team radio coded messages, the rest of the weekend? LOL the orders happened late in the race, funny that!

arunkshrestha
26th July 2010, 10:11
LOL because of the team radio coded messages, the rest of the weekend? LOL the orders happened late in the race, funny that!

Are you claiming that Jenson was ordered to give the place back once he passed Hamilton? Well he clearly didn't intent to because he put some fight and they even made contact. In fact, every time Hamilton qualified behind Button, he has passed him on track in Lap 1.

shostak
26th July 2010, 10:12
Are you claiming that Jenson was ordered to give the place back once he passed Hamilton? Well he clearly didn't intent to because he put some fight and they even made contact.

Yes, and then team said them: 'save fuel'. And now Whitmarsh says McCheaters dont give team orders to drivers. :lol

Greig
26th July 2010, 10:13
Are you claiming that Jenson was ordered to give the place back once he passed Hamilton? Well he clearly didn't intent to because he put some fight and they even made contact.

No he was given the coded messages to back right off, and he did, so a team order that stopped them racing to the end, which affected the race result.

Ferrari655
26th July 2010, 14:27
No he was given the coded messages to back right off, and he did, so a team order that stopped them racing to the end, which affected the race result.

100% agree with you there...and there lies my problem with Sunday.

For me Massa made a total meal of what he was asked to do...as did Smedley. What was said over the radio was soooo obvious my heart sank as soon as he said it....then fell further when i saw how Massa just moved over. At least (and it pains me to say it) McLaren (spit) have the right idea and have coded messages that are obviously pre arranged....but dont draw the attention like ours did.

I'm also suprised Massa could make it to the podium without tripping his bottom lip..he look so p***ed off it was obvious what had taken place.

Lastly this smacks of Ferrari of the late 70's / 80's where one side doesnt know what the other is doing...i really hope we havent gone back to that as i remember that being a mare. All the back pedeling from Massa, Alonso, Smedley, Stefano was so cringing to watch.

Also can someone take out Eddie Jordan.....he must of said "the rules have changed since my day" about 50 times on Sunday........booom headshot :thumb

Nova
26th July 2010, 15:05
Last race comparisons are pointless really. It's clear what the team is doing. It would just have been nice for the fans i've they'd been honest and done it on lap 2 or summat or actually made it look like a team decision . Instead we had a repeat of our most shameful day in a decade.

I know you are playing Devil's advocate here :-) but the truth is that the team looks bad over this and it's unecessary. It's clear that there's no room for sentimentality but pretending that everything is hunky dory and that we havent damaged ourselves with this one isn't realistic either.

If I think the way we handled today was shameful then that's how I feel. Doesn't stop me being a Ferrari supporter. Just means I care about how the team handles itself. Watching endless interviews of lies wasn't fun, regardless of the points involved.

Actually, if you look at it, when Massa came out on hards, he was struggling, locking up in turns, looking a bit ragged, Alonso did close on him quickly, and attempted 2 passes, Massa quickly blocked both attempts,
thats when we heard FA on radio saying this is ridiculous...he had him, and FA was quicker...Now I suppose everyone would be happy as larks if FA wouldnt have gotten by, Vettel wouldve closed on both and stole the race watching FA n Massa duke it out.....Everyone would then be saying "why didnt Ferrari tell Massa to let the quicker car by"???? "How could we lose a race we had in the bag???" or "That SD should be fired, he doesnt know how to run a team!!" Ferrari did the correct thing..This mambo controversy takes away from the fact that Ferrari had a 1-2 in Germany, Im happy as all stink about it...lets do it again in Hungary....

Tifosi
26th July 2010, 15:32
Actually, if you look at it, when Massa came out on hards, he was struggling, locking up in turns, looking a bit ragged, Alonso did close on him quickly, and attempted 2 passes, Massa quickly blocked both attempts,
thats when we heard FA on radio saying this is ridiculous...he had him, and FA was quicker...Now I suppose everyone would be happy as larks if FA wouldnt have gotten by, Vettel wouldve closed on both and stole the race watching FA n Massa duke it out.....Everyone would then be saying "why didnt Ferrari tell Massa to let the quicker car by"???? "How could we lose a race we had in the bag???" or "That SD should be fired, he doesnt know how to run a team!!" Ferrari did the correct thing..This mambo controversy takes away from the fact that Ferrari had a 1-2 in Germany, Im happy as all stink about it...lets do it again in Hungary....

Yeah, I'll totally admit that Massa deliberately held off his teammate. To be fair, that's because he was racing him. What he proved there was that he could hold him off, and the two were trading laps for quite a while after that.

If I remember correctly, Vettel was about five seconds behind and not really threatening Alonso when the decision to swap was made. I'm sure someone will prove me wrong there. There were no pit stops to cover and it was effectively a straight fight between the Ferraris.

I would totally agree that Massa should have conceded the place to Alonso if the two had come under threat by the Vettel. In fact, that would have made it perfectly acceptable in my view :-) The way it happened was just bad though.

straycat
26th July 2010, 15:36
Let them all have their panties ties in knots including the so called Ferrari fans.. in the mean time hope they ignore the fact that we just got the pace figured out and maybe we can run away with back to back 1-2...then what will they complain about..

i agree 100%

DIEK
26th July 2010, 16:10
.......F.Massa...........F.Alonso
1 ----------------------------
2 1.20.064 1:20.386
3 1.19.501 1:20.065
4 1.19.545 1:19.828
5 1:19.500 1:19.292
6 1:19.586 1:19.153
7 1:19.272 1:19.625
8 1:19.216 1:19.248
9 1:19.017 1:18.965
10 1:18.915 1:18.955
11 1:18.823 1:18.846
12 1:18.943 1:18.888
13 1:18.921 1:21.136
14 1:21.554 1:33.726
15 1:34.379 1:19.201
16 1:19.233 1:19.191
17 1:19.163 1:19.276
18 1:19.655 1:19.464
19 1:19.194 1:19.199
20 1:19.489 1:19.367
21 1:20.263 1:20.449
22 1:19.400 1:19.178
23 1:18.711 1:19.065
24 1:18.646 1:19.697
25 1:18.874 1:19.423
26 1:18.560 1:19.159
27 1:18.399 1:18.872
28 1:18.189 1:18.075
29 1:18.400 1:18.108
30 1:17.991 1:18.129
31 1:18.085 1:17.751
32 1:18.353 1:17.797
33 1:18.107 1:17.874
34 1:18.408 1:18.621
35 1:17.908 1:18.387
36 1:17.890 1:17.666
37 1:18.045 1:17.495
38 1:18.096 1:17.868
39 1:18.644 1:18.032
40 1:17.569 1:17.596
41 1:17.714 1:17.537
42 1:17.347 1:17.378
43 1:17.248 1:17.265
44 1:17.462 1:17.261
45 1:17.346 1:17.436
46 1:17.560 1:17.660
47 1:17.166 1:17.012
48 1:17.329 1:17.279
49 1:19.103 1:17.378
50 1:17.839 1:17.255
51 1:17.179 1:16.770
52 1:17.848 1:16.945
53 1:17.408 1:17.346
54 1:17.128 1:17.245
55 1:16.921 1:16.625
56 1:16.876 1:17.096
57 1:17.734 1:18.025
58 1:17.530 1:16.965
59 1:17.234 1:16.681
60 1:17.137 1:16.877
61 1:16.545 1:16.672
62 1:16.685 1:16.471
63 1:16.814 1:16.743
64 1:16.425 1:16.103
65 1:16.182 1:16.505
66 1:16.097 1:15.880
67 1:17.292 1:17.342
__________________

Nova
26th July 2010, 18:24
Yeah, I'll totally admit that Massa deliberately held off his teammate. To be fair, that's because he was racing him. What he proved there was that he could hold him off, and the two were trading laps for quite a while after that.

If I remember correctly, Vettel was about five seconds behind and not really threatening Alonso when the decision to swap was made. I'm sure someone will prove me wrong there. There were no pit stops to cover and it was effectively a straight fight between the Ferraris.

I would totally agree that Massa should have conceded the place to Alonso if the two had come under threat by the Vettel. In fact, that would have made it perfectly acceptable in my view :-) The way it happened was just bad though.

I think they were under threat from Vettel till the end...5 seconds is nothing, and dont you remember when Massa was leading Vettel started taking chunks out of the lead? Dont know about you but I was scared there...my opinion is that Vettel was close enough to get the lead at any given time and my point was why give him the opp?? Anytime 2 cars are fighting, they lose time..Vettel wasnt fighting, didnt have the pace to pass them, unless they started fighting and screwed up, which almost happened...I respect your opinion, Im simply happy that we were able to beat RB...THe pass doesnt take any of my respect away from anyone at Ferrari..I wouldve done the same thing, as would any other of the teams out there..Felipe will get his day.