mclaren

[telandjak]

amazing how jenson button was doing well on the soft tyres averaging half a second lap faster than anyone else then they give him his tyre change and out he comes right behind lewis team orders (i wonder) another 2 or 3 laps and he would have been in front of lewis all this about alonso why dont they look into mclaren

[Tech_Skill]

amazing how jenson button was doing well on the soft tyres averaging half a second lap faster than anyone else then they give him his tyre change and out he comes right behind lewis team orders (i wonder) another 2 or 3 laps and he would have been in front of lewis all this about alonso why dont they look into mclaren


Dude, all im gonna say is this, Mclaren is the most corrupt team in the sport bar none.

Look at their history, senna favoured over prost, Hakkinen (overrated) favoured over Couthard, Hamilton over Alonso, Raikonnen over Montoya.

If you go to Mclaren, dont expect equal treatment.

Trust me, button might as well give up now, if he gets any closer, they will have to start "accidently" messing up his tyres pressures like they did with Alonso in 2007.

[BigRedOne]

Dude, all im gonna say is this, Mclaren is the most corrupt team in the sport bar none.

Look at their history, senna favoured over prost, Hakkinen (overrated) favoured over Couthard, Hamilton over Alonso, Raikonnen over Montoya.

If you go to Mclaren, dont expect equal treatment.

Trust me, button might as well give up now, if he gets any closer, they will have to start "accidently" messing up his tyres pressures like they did with Alonso in 2007.


I agree with pretty much everything you've said, but do you really think that Mika Hakkinen is overrated and that DC was a better driver? I don't think so.:Hmm

[arunkshrestha]

I think it was pretty obvious that Mika was favoured over DC and Kimi over Montoya, because they were finnish, even tough the latter were better drivers. No wonder Montoya left McLaren. Bloody Ron and McLiar's team orders. :furious

[Greig]

DC spoke quite clearly about McLaren team orders in his time, maybe you missed it on Sunday?

[FFFerrari]

I think it was pretty obvious that Mika was favoured over DC and Kimi over Montoya, because they were finnish, even tough the latter were better drivers. No wonder Montoya left McLaren. Bloody Ron and McLiar's team orders. :furious

Well that is pure BS. Coulthard was never ever championship material even if he managed wins thanks to great cars, he never had that killer instinct. Why would have a BRITISH team not favoured a BRITISH driver over a finn unless they knew who the faster driver was? And about Montoya...he never really got comfortable in a F1 car although he had the raw talent. Only thing your correct is that Ron "Paragon of Virtue" Dennis is a ruthless team boss that will use any and all means to win.

[arunkshrestha]

Well that is pure BS. Coulthard was never ever championship material even if he managed wins thanks to great cars, he never had that killer instinct. Why would have a BRITISH team not favoured a BRITISH driver over a finn unless they knew who the faster driver was? And about Montoya...he never really got comfortable in a F1 car although he had the raw talent. Only thing your correct is that Ron "Paragon of Virtue" Dennis is a ruthless team boss that will use any and all means to win.

Ron clearly had a love affair with Finns. Anyone who says Ron didn't show massive favouritism towards Mika and Kimi is clearly deluded. McLaren destroyed DC's and Montoya's careers by their blatant team orders. Had they let DC and Montoya race properly, then they would have beaten Mika and Kimi. But of course, McLiars always using team orders. :furious

[Greig]

Ron clearly had a love affair with Finns. Anyone who says Ron didn't show massive favouritism towards Mika and Kimi is clearly deluded. McLaren destroyed DC's and Montoya's careers by their blatant team orders. Had they let DC and Montoya race properly, then they would have beaten Mika and Kimi. But of course, McLiars always using team orders. :furious

Take your sarcasm to Planet F1 :wave

[arunkshrestha]

I was partly sarcastic, but I was also right that Ron favoured Mika and Kimi over DC and Montoya. It's human nature. Even parents have their favourite.

We don't know what the results would have been if they were allowed a fair fight.

[Tifosi]

Well that is pure BS. Coulthard was never ever championship material even if he managed wins thanks to great cars, he never had that killer instinct. Why would have a BRITISH team not favoured a BRITISH driver over a finn unless they knew who the faster driver was? And about Montoya...he never really got comfortable in a F1 car although he had the raw talent. Only thing your correct is that Ron "Paragon of Virtue" Dennis is a ruthless team boss that will use any and all means to win.

...and that he talked rubbish when he says there was parity in his team. Many driver testimonies prove that.

[Tech_Skill]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said, but do you really think that Mika Hakkinen is overrated and that DC was a better driver? I don't think so.:Hmm

Im not an F1 expert by any means, but I would say Hakkinen was better than Coulthard, what i would say is that Hakkinen got the benefit of some team orders cos Dennis was clearly besotted with him.

I actually used to support mika, and thought he was as good as Schumacher, but schumacher ran Hakkinen out of the sport when he finally got a decent car, also Eddie Irvine ran Hakkinen to the max and had him crying in the bushes in Monza i think it was, bloke was overrated imo.

[BigRedOne]

Im not an F1 expert by any means, but I would say Hakkinen was better than Coulthard, what i would say is that Hakkinen got the benefit of some team orders cos Dennis was clearly besotted with him.

I actually used to support mika, and thought he was as good as Schumacher, but schumacher ran Hakkinen out of the sport when he finally got a decent car, also Eddie Irvine ran Hakkinen to the max and had him crying in the bushes in Monza i think it was, bloke was overrated imo.

Well, I don't want this to become a Mika hit parade or anything, but he did out-qualify Senna at Estoril with the same car (McLaren) and he did go on to win the championship against Irvine after Monza. Also, Schumacher rates him very highly. I don't think that he was better than Schumacher, but on a good day he always gave him a run for his money. I very much agree that Ron favored him over DC, but I don't think that this takes away from his skill.
Now, enough about McLaren history. I'd rather talk about Ferrari!

[Katu]

Ron clearly had a love affair with Finns. Anyone who says Ron didn't show massive favouritism towards Mika and Kimi is clearly deluded. McLaren destroyed DC's and Montoya's careers by their blatant team orders. Had they let DC and Montoya race properly, then they would have beaten Mika and Kimi. But of course, McLiars always using team orders. :furious

not to say anything in defence of RD, but i don't think he chose his favorite by nationality. anyone remember Heikki?

[Ant Raikkonen]

not to say anything in defence of RD, but i don't think he chose his favorite by nationality. anyone remember Heikki?

Yep, i remember Heikki but he wasn't Mclaren's golden investment was he. That's not a pro-Hamilton comment, just from an emotional bond & business sense from Mclaren towards him imo. He's a "product" of Mclaren is Hamilton.

I'd love to have a pint or 2 with Heikki, and learn many takes about his treatment at Mclaren, no doubt.

[paneristi]

any team (incl. mclaren, ferrari, whatever) favors the faster driver

[Pekka]

I rated DC pretty high back in 96, 97.. He did a great job playing 2nd fiddle to Mika in the later years as well, but I really thought he had more potential.. He was just outshadowed by Mika, who was quicker. Perhaps he should have changed teams after 99, and his career might have been much different.

[FFFerrari]

I rated DC pretty high back in 96, 97.. He did a great job playing 2nd fiddle to Mika in the later years as well, but I really thought he had more potential.. He was just outshadowed by Mika, who was quicker. Perhaps he should have changed teams after 99, and his career might have been much different.

I believe he was offered a spot as a second for Michael on Ferrari, but declined cause the contract would have included clear no.1/no.2 driver implications. And I agree that a change of scenery would have been good but at that time there were only two top teams and he already had a spot on one.

[Tech_Skill]

I believe he was offered a spot as a second for Michael on Ferrari, but declined cause the contract would have included clear no.1/no.2 driver implications. And I agree that a change of scenery would have been good but at that time there were only two top teams and he already had a spot on one.

Schumacher would have smoked coulthard in equal cars anyways so if Ferrari did ever offer him a contract, they were right to include those terms. Michael was by far THE driver in F1 at that time, Ferrari's approach to work with him as the number one won them 5 straight titles, im not having a go at you at all, im just adding to this point because there are those out there who really believe schumacher was afraid to race another driver at Ferrari, the same thing was being said about Schumacher running from Raikonnen, but the reality is that Schuey would have dusted Raikonnen, Coulthard and anyone else at the time who wanted equal status, Ferrari knew that, so there was no point in letting them hinder his championship.

[FFFerrari]

Schumacher would have smoked coulthard in equal cars anyways so if Ferrari did ever offer him a contract, they were right to include those terms. Michael was by far THE driver in F1 at that time, Ferrari's approach to work with him as the number one won them 5 straight titles, im not having a go at you at all, im just adding to this point because there are those out there who really believe schumacher was afraid to race another driver at Ferrari, the same thing was being said about Schumacher running from Raikonnen, but the reality is that Schuey would have dusted Raikonnen, Coulthard and anyone else at the time who wanted equal status, Ferrari knew that, so there was no point in letting them hinder his championship.

I never argued they weren't right to include those terms. The got good results by focusing on Michael and they weren't going to break that charm by making him race a fellow teammate.

And also not going to argue that Schumi was THE driver during good part of 95-05, but he was getting old at 06 (as can be witnessed now, getting his ass handed to him by Rosberg) and knew when to get out of the sport. Massa was getting really competitive to him in 06 and when Ferrari was looking to the future and signed Kimi he knew he either had to go or risk his legacy. And about the deals offered with clear 2nd driver stipulations, very few drivers ever that consider them racing drivers accept them. I guess DC considered himself a racing driver at that moment and not a lackey and declined. So they signed Barrichello and he was a good shieldbearer for Michael for many years.

[Pekka]

Well Williams was pretty good.. I mean they were challenging for the title especially in 03..

2000 3rd
2001 3rd
2002 2nd
2003 2nd
2004 4th

Those are Williams WCC statistics from that era.. Ferrari was just too powerful at that time, otherwise they might have gotten some WDCs and WCCs with Ralf and Juan Pablo..

[Tech_Skill]

I never argued they weren't right to include those terms. The got good results by focusing on Michael and they weren't going to break that charm by making him race a fellow teammate.

And also not going to argue that Schumi was THE driver during good part of 95-05, but he was getting old at 06 (as can be witnessed now, getting his ass handed to him by Rosberg) and knew when to get out of the sport. Massa was getting really competitive to him in 06 and when Ferrari was looking to the future and signed Kimi he knew he either had to go or risk his legacy. And about the deals offered with clear 2nd driver stipulations, very few drivers ever that consider them racing drivers accept them. I guess DC considered himself a racing driver at that moment and not a lackey and declined. So they signed Barrichello and he was a good shieldbearer for Michael for many years.

I wasnt arguing with you, i was adding to the point.

I dont believe massa was getting really competitive to schuey, fuel adjusted, I believe MS killed him in Quali, Schumi was fueled to go longer than massa I believe so i think the times were kinda closer. Schuey lost out to massa in a race or two via bad strategy I believe, I cant fully remember it all. Overall, schuey dominated him as per usual.

2006 schumacher was still the man imo, his engine failure in suzuka cost him the title that year, since he left the sport and regulations have changed alot and there is little or no in season testing (stupid rule) he is gonna need time to be more competitive, but back in 2007, michael would have killed kimi at Ferrari no doubt about it, no way can kimi take the ferrari to its limits the same way schumacher would have, he was overrated.

If Coulthard considered himself a racing driver, why did he stay at Mclaren when it was clear he was number 2 to Mika? Schumacher would have handed him his ass real nice in the same car and he knows it.

[FFFerrari]

but back in 2007, michael would have killed kimi at Ferrari no doubt about it, no way can kimi take the ferrari to its limits the same way schumacher would have, he was overrated.

You really seem to hate Kimi, why is that? He did bring 1xWDC and 2x WCC in three seasons, was a team player and got a win last season in a totally crap car against all odds. I wouldn't call him overrated. What would have happened 2007 with Kimi and Schumi in the same team - we never going to know.

[Greig]

Schumi today would destroy Kimi :-) never mind in 2007 :-D

[FFFerrari]

Schumi today would destroy Kimi :-) never mind in 2007 :-D

Yeah, he can start by beating a young snotling Rosberg and then move on to winning some more championships :-D

[Tech_Skill]

You really seem to hate Kimi, why is that? He did bring 1xWDC and 2x WCC in three seasons, was a team player and got a win last season in a totally crap car against all odds. I wouldn't call him overrated. What would have happened 2007 with Kimi and Schumi in the same team - we never going to know.

I dont hate Kimi, I just never believed in the whole 'fastest man in F1' stuff, in my opinion, I never saw anything that once made me believe he was genuinely a faster driver than Schumacher, Kimi on his day was devastatingly quick, but Schumacher had it all, he could put a car on the absolute ragged edge for multiple laps in pretty much any given race without making mistakes, his team leadership was second to none, i heard the bloke used to spend nights in the garage cos he was up so late working with the engineers. Kimi has little or none of these qualities. In 2006 the mistakes started to creep in to his driving and he finally came up against one hell of a championship driver, a driver who was not the fastest but Ultra consistent and knew how to maximise and take as many points a possible every race, even if the win wasn't possible. This is the reason Alonso got him in 2006, but Kimi isnt that kind of driver imo, he is very fast on his day, but I dont think he is as fast as michael 06 and certainly not faster over a consistent multi race season where the car might be strong one race and poor the next.

Look at Brazil 06 and the move michael did on Kimi near the end, that move was absolute murder, im surprised the cops didnt arrest michael after such a move, I love Kimi, but over the course of 2 seasons he could barley handle massa, no way was michael scared of this guy. i think when Michael realised the team was not going to be 100% focused on him, he decided it was his time to leave and go out at the top.

[Tifosi]

Kimi was a team player? oooo, must have missed that! :-E

[Raz]

This made me laugh hehe Mclaren are Baffled!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85618
:rotfl

[Tifosi]

That coupled with the fact that their blown diffuser "blows" big time suggests they'll be scratching their heads in the death star until the leaves are falling in Maranello :-D

I'm so glad Whitmarsh has finally "turned sith" will his hypocritical views on Team Orders.

So much easier to hate Macca again now! :-)

[Agron]

This made me laugh hehe Mclaren are Baffled!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85618
:rotflGreat to see other teams scratching their heads trying to emulate Ferrari and failing :-D

[Raz]

Great to see other teams scratching their heads trying to emulate Ferrari and failing :-D

Especially Mclaren..

[dbristol91]

Paddy Lowe: "We’re a couple of races behind Ferrari in its introduction and obviously a half season behind the Red Bull."...are you kidding me?! Somebody please tell this idiot the Ferrari is better than RBR. We were faster in germany, we will be faster in Hungary, and we will dominate the second half of the season, because that's the way Ferrari does business! Go Ferrari!!! Felipe,Alonso, lets go boys! Both of you fight as a team. May the best of you win. God speed!

[Brakefade]

Dude, all im gonna say is this, Mclaren is the most corrupt team in the sport bar none.

Look at their history, senna favoured over prost, Hakkinen (overrated) favoured over Couthard, Hamilton over Alonso, Raikonnen over Montoya.

If you go to Mclaren, dont expect equal treatment.

Trust me, button might as well give up now, if he gets any closer, they will have to start "accidently" messing up his tyres pressures like they did with Alonso in 2007.

Uh... They already started "accidentally" forgetting to remove covers on the cooling ducts on Button's car. So if this is the start, what will happen if Button overtakes Hamilton in the points. We might just see Ron with a gun trying to "accidentally" shoot Button's tires out.

[ferrari4life]

This made me laugh hehe Mclaren are Baffled!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85618
:rotfl

I think thats a ad for McLaren stating "Now Hiring, one snitch preferably from Ferrari or RedBull..Please bring paperwork and we will provide copier machine"

[LAROSA SpA]

Ron Dennis isn't pleased with the progress being made at the factory:
http://ui03.gamespot.com/1698/emperorfinal1_2.jpg