Hungarian GP Qualifying Thread

[m schumy]

Not long to go until Qualy....any predictions? I`m afraid the Red Bulls are set to take the front row but I think Ferrari could get 3rd and 4th today :-)

[zeus2]

Alonso will probably get third but Massa seems to be struggling so not too sure about him.

[Ferrarichamp]

I'm hoping for a small miracle, Alonso to win the race. After what happened in 2008, maybe it's time for some better luck. Seems there a chance of rain this arvo.

[m schumy]

1207: So, if you're just joining us, I can tell you that Red Bull look odds-on, white-hot, absolute stick-on favourites to secure pole position this afternoon given they emerged from third and final practice a full second faster than any of their rivals. Still, stranger things have happened, right? Ferrari's Fernando Alonso looks their biggest rival, while Renault's Robert Kubica and McLaren pair Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button look likely to battle it out behind that trio. As for the others - it looks like reaching Q3 could be the summit of the teams' aims.

[m schumy]

BBC Sport's Sarah Holt in Budapest: "Fernando Alonso has been the closest man to the Red Bulls all weekend but in third practice he was 0.666 seconds adrift of Sebastian Vettel, who in turn was nearly half a second behind his lighting quick team-mate Mark Webber. Driver error, traffic mayhem or interference from the skies might be Alonso's best hope of denying Red Bull pole - that or a little magic.

I say this because Alonso, who turned 29 this week, is a big fan of card tricks.

He was first taught them by his grandfather and now sometimes calls on his pop star wife Raquel del Rosario - who is here this weekend on one of her rare trips to a race - to be his glamorous assistant. Alonso reckons he has 25 tricks up his sleeve."

BBC Sport's Sarah Holt on Twitter: "Nice and sunny and warm at the Hungaroring. I can't imagine it will be anything other than dry for qualifying from where I'm sitting."

[Tech_Skill]

LMAO @ Eddie Jordan crawling up Stefano's Behind, backtracking much eddie?

[Tech_Skill]

Lewis Hamilton is the biggest Joke in the sport, he is on BBC saying its good that team orders were banned, this is the same guy who was thanking Heiki for letting through in germany 2008, the hypocrisy is hilarious.

[DIEK]

Practice 3-GP Hungría 2010

M. Webber (Red Bull) 1:19.574-v17
S. Vettel (Red Bull) 1:20.058 (+0.484)-v15
F. Alonso (Ferrari) 1:20.724 (+1.150)-v19
R. Kubica (Renault) 1:21.066 (+1.492)-v19
F. Massa (Ferrari) 1:21.264 (+1.690)-v16
L. Hamilton (McLaren) 1:21.376 (+1.802)-v17

[SilverSpeed]

Maybe we should do Q3 with the harder tyres?

Or hope for a good rain shower tomorrow?

[omar_baki]

Any streaming links?

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

Everything is ready inside the Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro garage. Drivers are getting ready to sit inside the cockpit

[m schumy]

Live streaming: http://www.firstrow.net/watch/22732/2/watch-formula-1-hungary-grand-prix-%5Bqualifying%5D.html

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

Sky is partially cloudy, air temperature 26 C, track temperature 37 C

The realistic target today is the 3rd spot on the grid

[RACERX11]

tvkorner.com channel 1 has live streaming

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

24 cars out on track, rush hour traffic!!

[tifosi1035]

Have the ferraris got the new wings on?

[Greig]

Is it over yet?

[Suzie]

3 minutes left Greig.

[m schumy]

BBC Radio 5 live analyst Anthony Davidson: "Time and again Alonso is fastest in the first sector. If he can somehow find some time in the second sector, he can at least hope to be somewhere near the Red Bulls."

[Greig]

3 minutes left Greig.

seems like 3 hours :-D

[Suzie]

Oops didn't catch the sarcasm, must be ill :oops

[m schumy]

BBC F1 analyst Martin Bundle: "Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel know that if they have two Ferraris coming at them as one in favour of Fernando Alonso, sooner or later their team is going to have to defend that and play tactics, too. That's what coming at them in the next two or three races - guaranteed."

[m schumy]

BBC 5 live F1 commentator David Croft: "Jarno Trulli has been on his radio complaining that Vettel held him up, and that it cost him four tenths of a second. That could be interesting if the stewards get involved."

[m schumy]

1321: That's your lot, then, another qualifying session utterly dominated by the Red Bulls. Out go Kobayashi, Glock, Kovalainen, Trulli, Di Grassi, Senna and Yamamoto.

[DIEK]

Chandhok !! :wave

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

Session finished with Fernando 5th and Felipe 6th

[m schumy]

Qualy 1 Results

http://i32.tinypic.com/2z3x843.jpg

[m schumy]

1322: BMW Sauber's Kamui Kobayashi something of a surprise exit there, then - it turns out the Japanese driver got disastrously held up by Bruno Senna on his final flying lap and he pays the price.

[m schumy]

Qualy 2 has just started :-)

[m schumy]

Felipe on track :thumb

[FerrariF60]

are we going to use the engine mapping in Q3??
or do we even have it in our car??

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

Felipe is already ready to go on hard tyres as before

And Fernando went out very soon as well, also on hard tyres

[Greig]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[m schumy]

1331: Sebastian Vettel's mechanics have had to change the 'cake tin' - the carbon fibre shrouding around the brake disc - on his front right tyre, but still no prizes for guessing who tops the timings - it's the German with a 1:19.866 ahead of team-mate Mark Webber.

[m schumy]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz

I agree, boring Qualy :-)

[ferrari4life]

why is massa so much slower?

[DJTaurus]

I agree, boring Qualy :-)Cause he is the second driver in our team or a wannabe 1st.:-P

[FerrariF60]

massa going on softs; worried he won't make it to Q3, is it??

[racingbradley]

We will see some action in Q3

[ferrari4life]

yes button out

[maho]

button out! Yes!!!

[ferrari4life]

any idea what is ailing massa?

[m schumy]

Ferrari on Twitter: "The two Red Bulls are clearly ahead of everyone else."

BBC Radio 5 live analyst Anthony Davidson: "Qualifying is Red Bull's to throw away - they have an even bigger advantage here than they did at Silverstone, where they were dominant."

[ferrari4life]

glad those stinking force India's are out too.

[FerrariF60]

any idea what is ailing massa?

i thought he was complaining of oversteer

[DIEK]

Pedroooooo!! :-D

Awesome driving & fantastic person...

[RockyRaccoon]

The performance of the Red Bulls is ridiculous. They are embarrassing the field! At least we seem to be a solid third place with Fernando (fngers crossed!)

Am I right in thinking third is better for the start than second around here?

[Tech_Skill]

cant wait to hear buttons excuses about how bad the car is, that will probably be more entertaining than Q3.

[ferrari4life]

button made a comment that he would quit if there are team orders..the way he qualifies McLaren wont have that problem

[m schumy]

Qualy 2 Results

http://i30.tinypic.com/2wphtf9.jpg

[FerrariF60]

The performance of the Red Bulls is ridiculous. They are embarrassing the field! At least we seem to be a solid third place with Fernando (fngers crossed!)

Am I right in thinking third is better for the start than second around here?

yes it is better, since on the clean side

[m schumy]

BBC Radio 5 live commentator David Croft: "That is a huge blow to Jenson Button, the man who is second in the championship table."

BBC F1 analyst Martin Brundle: "Mark Webber said this morning: 'It's Barcelona all over again, mate.' A reference to the Spanish Grand Prix, where Red Bull were the best part of a second a lap faster than anyone else."

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

Session finished. Fernando is 3rd behind the Red Bulls but he has 5 tenths over the 4th. Felipe is 6th together with other four drivers

[m schumy]

Qualy 3 has started

[Agron]

If RB and SV/MW don't win the WCC and WDC this year, the whole world will point at them and laugh. It's not just having 11 poles out of 12, it's the insane advantage they had over the second too.

[FerrariF60]

If RB and SV/MW don't win the WCC and WDC this year, the whole world will point at them and laugh. It's not just having 11 poles out of 12, it's the insane advantage they had over the second too.

that is my exact feeling too....they'd be the laughing sock if they dont' win them

[Tech_Skill]

Fernando 1.19.9 , i honestly think he can go faster too.

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

Both cars are out on soft tyres

It will be tight battle in Q3 for the rows from 2nd to 5th... The 1st is fully booked!

[maho]

8 tenths! Webber 1st.

Edit- Vettel 1st. 1.3 seconds difference between alonso and Vettel

[WRX202]

bloody hell, Webber almost a second better than FA

[WRX202]

and Vettel even better, 0.4 omg....

[ferrari4life]

damn...

[RockyRaccoon]

Vettel over a second faster than Alonso, unbelievable!

[Tech_Skill]

That red bull is insane, I just wanna see how close nando can get to webber, he pretty much wrapped up 2nd, next lap he should put the car on the ragged edge and see what happens, or maybe its worth saving the tires and calling it a day till tomorrow?

[m schumy]

BBC Radio 5 live analyst Anthony Davidson: "It's becoming like a broken record with Jenson complaining about not being able to find the grip in qualifying this season. He's not making that up, but his team-mate Lewis Hamilton is managing to drive round it. Jenson has to knuckle down and find that extra grip, perhaps by being more aggressive in the car."

BBC Sport's Sarah Holt on Twitter: "If you want some good news Button fans - don't forget he won from 14th on the grid in wet conditions here in 2006 for his first GP win."

BBC Radio 5 live commentator David Croft: "That is a huge blow to Jenson Button, the man who is second in the championship table."

BBC F1 analyst Martin Brundle: "Mark Webber said this morning: 'It's Barcelona all over again, mate.' A reference to the Spanish Grand Prix, where Red Bull were the best part of a second a lap faster than anyone else."

[FerrariF60]

looks liek we have no chance at winning at this track going by the pace of teh bulls...unless their reliability craps out

[m schumy]

1355: Double boom. Sebastian Vettel goes 0.4 seconds faster still, the German going P1 with a 1:18.773.

1355: Boom. Mark Webber is P1 with a 1:19.184 - more than 0.8 seconds faster than Alonso.

[m schumy]

The Red Bulls are flying ...

[WRX202]

or Vettel repeats the start of Hockenheim towards Webber hehe...

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

Final run, both cars on soft, ten cars on track

[m schumy]

1358: Mark Webber emerges back out of the Red Bull garage for his final runs well ahead of Sebastian Vettel.

1357: It's the two Red Bulls, the two Ferraris, Lewis Hamilton P5 with a 1:20.499 and then Nico Rosberg sixth with a 1:21.183. Hulkenberg, Petrov, Kubica and De La Rosa not yet blazing any trails in this session.

[m schumy]

BBC Radio 5 live analyst Anthony Davidson: "That was a stunning lap from Vettel. There we go, Red Bull were hiding even more pace than we suspected, showing what that brilliant car can do on this track. That is a fantastic effort by the Milton Keynes-based team."

[ferrari4life]

haha hope the bulls have a coming together again...then i would love to see horner saying..i dont belive in team orders...

[ferrari4life]

good job massa making up that time

[RockyRaccoon]

Hispania are almost 8 seconds behind Red Bull at this track!

[racingbradley]

Phew glad that's over, my nerves were in tatters. :-)

[FerrariF60]

Hispania are almost 8 seconds behind Red Bull at this track!

i reckon they'll be passed/lapped at lest 6 times during the race....lol

[m schumy]

Qualy 3 Results

http://i31.tinypic.com/33z4pbb.jpg

[m schumy]

Eddie Jordan on BBC One: "This is the most significant dominance by a team so far this season. Red Bull are absolutely at the top of their game and their rivals have absolutely no answer at the moment."

[ferrari4life]

hope vettel goes after webber which you know he is going to do..and alonso sneaks one past

[Suzie]

Phew glad that's over, my nerves were in tatters. :-)

Me too, I didn't have the nerve to watch Q2. I'm glad it was boring. :-)

[ferrari4life]

someone should ask button about how he plans to extend his gap to hamilton now

[Hornet]

I'm a little depressed by the Red Bull's pace

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

We have to be happy with the result even though the margin is very very high. Congratulations to Red Bulls but as said the race is tomorrow .

As expected, Ferrari is the 2nd force at the moment. With two drivers in the 2nd row of the grid we can do a good race tomorrow

[m schumy]

Jenson Button on qualifying in 11th: "In practice I had good balance, but I struggled with the car in qualifying. I was OK on the prime tyres, but I couldn't get the options working. It's tough, but we were never going to be on the front two rows here. At least I'm on the clean side of the grid. We can still pick up good points."

[RockyRaccoon]

Did we look closer to the Red Bulls on the long runs?

I think our best chance is Alonso getting a good start from the clean side and jumping one of the Red Bulls, hopefully both but I'm not going to get my hopes up given Alonso's starts lately!

[Tech_Skill]

Today's Jenson Button, excuseometer

I couldn't find a balance with the car.
The weather changes conditions
I was happy with the car, we changed a few things and i didn't have the grip.

:lol

[WRX202]

let's just hope the Pirelli's reset this gap next year.

[ferrari4life]

martin is an idion "fixed wings" just a sad excuse

[ICEMAN_89]

Look's like the Bulls are back where they belong

[ferrari4life]

eddie speaking sense about martins comments...hahah this is funny

[Hermann]

Vettel on pole again? How surprising *yawn*

[tifosi1035]

No one replied earlier. I couldn't watch so I was curious what front wing we had on the car??No one replied earlier.I couldn't w

[ICEMAN_89]

No one replied earlier. I couldn't watch so I was curious what front wing we had on the car??No one replied earlier.I couldn't w

Both had the new flex wing

[hogo]

Wow... Well at least we are 2nd and quite far ahead of the rest. Too bad Massa will have to start from the dirty side so its possible that he will lose position to Hamilton...

Anyway I hope Bulls are cheating and both cars will be disqualified.

[tifosi1035]

Pray for race pace.....E

[RACERX11]

why is everyone handing the victory to the Red Bulls? I still believe in the human portion of the race.... where Alonso and Massa are way better....:dance:dance:dance:dance:ferrarifl:ferra rifl

[Tech_Skill]

Alonso Looks very happy there, i gotta say, he got into the 1.19's which i thought was outstanding.

[ferrari4life]

we should implore the fia to change the qualifying format to prevent such dominance by the red bulls.. sounds familiar?

[Hermann]

Pole is Hungary is meant for the victory- under normal circumstances.

[ICEMAN_89]

Alonso Looks very happy there, i gotta say, he got into the 1.19's which i thought was outstanding.

Not if you compare his time to Vettel's;)

[tifosi1035]

Both had the new flex wing

Ugh... at least we gave it a ride. Let's see if we can't scrap tomorrow for two podium spots.

[ICEMAN_89]

Pole is Hungary is meant for the victory- under normal circumstances.

Button Won in 2006 and he started 14th, but as you said under normal circumstances

[ferrari4life]

feels like the ferrari is better of the line that the bulls..we have a decent chance

[Tech_Skill]

Not if you compare his time to Vettel's;)

I wonder why that is........ might just be the car no?:lol

No way is vettel 1.2 seconds a faster driver than Alonso.

[ferrari4life]

also think the bulls will not be as quick in the race..think they dialed things up for quali since they realize how much being ahead counts for. hope it compromises their race

[m schumy]

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh: "I think getting in front of Felipe Massa was do-able for Lewis (Hamilton), but still, to be the first of the fixed-wing vehicles is something. That's how we feel at the moment. There's a regulation about the wings needing to be 85mm above the ground, and to be rigid. Perhaps it's time for some clarification."

[m schumy]

Red Bull driver Mark Webber on BBC One: "I did my best today. I probably didn't put in the cleanest lap on the first flyer but, hey, that's the way it goes. I'm sure there's a bit more for both of us to get out of the car again as well. I'm still in a great position - congratulations to Seb, he deserves pole - but we can both have a great race tomorrow for sure."

[FFFerrari]

feels like the ferrari is better of the line that the bulls..we have a decent chance

Indeed it seems, but they had real problem in Vettel's car in Hockeinheim so I don't think we can repeat the start from there. But hey, they can always crash together :lol

[Losticus]

In the PC Alonso's eyes had that sharkly look of when he smells victory ;)

[m schumy]

Ferrari's Fernando Alonso on BBC One: "We found a big gap between Red Bull and us this weekend, so we maximised our potential today. We did our job which is to be best of the rest. Hopefully tomorrow we can make it a more difficult race for them because so far this weekend it has been too easy. The start is important, it is difficult to overtake. Strategy will be important but we know the start will be 60-70% of the race."

[Kingdom Hearts]

Let's hope Vettel don't do anything stupid if Alonso have a better start than him. And Felipe is in danger with Hamilton behid and with Lewis in attack mode at the start.

[Tech_Skill]

If Alonso doesnt get a good start, its over, simple as that.

[m schumy]

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner on BBC One: "This was probably our most dominant qualifying of the year. The track suits the car well, with not many straights and lots of corners which is perfect for us. But we have seen the Ferraris and McLaren are closer in race trim. As for the talk about our front wing - the regulations are clear, there is a clear FIA test the cars have to pass. We're happy the car complies. This week it's front wing, before that it was active suspension, before that diffuser. The team should take it as a compliment. We're focused on our own performance, hopefully we can get two good starts and get our heads down and leave the rest behind."

Red Bull's pole-sitter Sebastian Vettel on BBC One: "It was a very good day for us. All weekend here we felt very comfortable with the car and we were able to improve it another bit overnight. I said on the radio to the boys 'this is your moment'. I said 'you built this wonderful car'. It was a pleasure to drive. I'm looking forward to tomorrow. This circuit suits us. You need to know the track but you need to have the car. The track suits our car so we are little bit quicker than the rest. We found the problem from last week that made the bad start so hopefully we can have a normal start tomorrow. Usually in Hungary it is important to be on the clean side. The start is important but there are 70 laps after that. It will be an exciting race tomorrow."

[m schumy]

I think it will all depend on the start, not the easiest track to overtake on during the race

[Mitra]

hoping for a good race
if we have a good start i think anything can happen :-)

[tpe]

Yeap. Start is everything. Remember 2008, when Massa overtook Hamilton. We need such a start, although from 3rd and 4th position, that is very, very difficult. Anyway, let's hope that the race will be good for us. Even the 2nd place is good for Alonso.

[Hornet]

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh: "I think getting in front of Felipe Massa was do-able for Lewis (Hamilton), but still, to be the first of the fixed-wing vehicles is something. That's how we feel at the moment. There's a regulation about the wings needing to be 85mm above the ground, and to be rigid. Perhaps it's time for some clarification."
That was really desperate :lol

[zuludemon]

That was really desperate :lol

Rigid implies no flex at all - the Macca wing flex by even a micron? then it is not rigid..

And the rules dont say 85 mm above the ground, not that I can find in the tech regs anyway.

[LAROSA SpA]

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh: "I think getting in front of Felipe Massa was do-able for Lewis (Hamilton), but still, to be the first of the fixed-wing vehicles is something. That's how we feel at the moment. There's a regulation about the wings needing to be 85mm above the ground, and to be rigid. Perhaps it's time for some clarification."

The wings need to be rigid ?!

Not even an aircrafts wings are rigid :roll

[zuludemon]

The wings need to be rigid ?!

Not even an aircrafts wings are rigid :roll

They cant be rigid. MW is just doing his usual moaning cos they are too slow...

[Greig]

Look's like the Bulls are back where they belong

And you are going back where you belong :-)

[dfunk257]

We so need the Maclarens 2 blow up or score no points some how 2morrow, its clear that unless the Red Bulls have some problems we wont win the race, but hopefully we can score alot more points then the Maclarens and gain on them in the championship. And i hate 2 say it, but hopefully Ferrari have thought hard b4 the race about how 2 handle the situation if Massa gets in front of Alonso again, please!

[zuludemon]

One thing that just occurred to me...

So MW is saying the rules say aero surfaces are not allowed to flex?? Is that right?

My memory is a bit hazy but I remember the view from the mclaren engine cover camera at highspeed vibrating a lot and they said it was the engine cover vibrating? if that flexing? and it was designed to do it?

Can anyone remember that?

[FerrariF60]

And you are going back where you belong :-)

you tell him Greig...no kimi fanboys here....lol

[delsando]

Could it be RB are using their flexing wing theory on other components like the under floor/ rear win, something looks fishy. Rb probably found a secret during their runs on rainy days especially 2009 Monza.

[zuludemon]

I think the RB is just simply an efficient downforce generating machine.... rear end of the car is so nicely packaged it is in a league of its own.

[Hermann]

I don't know about the other broadcasters but on german TV they have been talking non-stop about Ferrari and team-order. Starting again every time a Ferrari was on the screen. Don't they ever get tired of this? lol....

[MASSUM THE GREATEST]

The 18's.
The 18's for goodness sake.

[m schumy]

InsideFerrari

HUN - Ferrari “best of the rest”
HUN - Chris Dyer: "Impossible to fight for the front row"
HUN - Fernando Alonso: "The start will be very important"
HUN - Felipe Massa: "Overall, we are pleased"
HUN - A positive qualifying. Stefano Domenicali: "We did our best"

[slither]

It was quite clear that this was the best of Ferrari today.
The track is made for RBRs , lots of turns, so I will be looking for the start and an attack from Fernando and Felipe.
It is clear that we will get at least one podium an lets wait for some stupid mistakes from RBRs unless we cannot manage to get to the front after start.
Besides we have seen that Germany performance of the car is stable, and we have hope for the post season break part of the season.

[slither]

They cant be rigid. MW is just doing his usual moaning cos they are too slow...

As local broadcaster told that flexible wings are announced to be legal. But I am not sure if there is an official statement.

[ferrari4life]

I don't know about the other broadcasters but on german TV they have been talking non-stop about Ferrari and team-order. Starting again every time a Ferrari was on the screen. Don't they ever get tired of this? lol....

Dont think the german media should be the one complaining about team orders.. seems like they were all for it when their favorite son was getting all those victories with it in place.

[ferrari4life]

red bulls cannot be this fast in race trim can they?

[Stormsearcher]

The bulls were freakishly fast today. Honestly speaking, if both the bulls keep their heads on and dont face any tech difficulties, there is no way we are getting higher than 3 here.
Having said that, the bulls are not so reliable. I think MW had some problem with his brake ducts in quali and vettel is capable of botching the start of the race. We are grasping at straws, but thats all we have for this race.
Someone said, we need both the McCheaters to DNF... we need to catch up on them. The bulls can be handled (or they will self destruct.. whichever comes first) eventually.

Massa better watch out for lewser at the start... and Nando better watch out for Massa who will be wanting to prove a point.
That run down to the first turn is going to be nerve wracking.

[Stormsearcher]

red bulls cannot be this fast in race trim can they?

We can only pray that they arent. Otherwise we are toast. :-P

[Stormsearcher]

haha hope the bulls have a coming together again...then i would love to see horner saying..i dont belive in team orders...

Lets Just hope our cars dont have a coming together this time. Thats my main concern. Somewhere there is half a feeling that both redbulls wont make it to the end. So we need to be there to capitalise. I hope both our boys run a sensible race.

[Agron]

red bulls cannot be this fast in race trim can they?Yes, they can, they have been way faster all FP and qualifying sessions, not just Q3. I doubt they even used that engine map thing that gives them a few tenths extra, they didn't need it at all.

[Greig]

We will be closer in the race I am sure, if we can get at them they will crack :-)

[goferrarigo]

Yes, they can, they have been way faster all FP and qualifying sessions, not just Q3. I doubt they even used that engine map thing that gives them a few tenths extra, they didn't need it at all.
Imagine if the bulls actually pushed their car to the limits:-E

[ferrari4life]

I find it hilarious that Martin W is complaining about how flexible the rules are towards allowing Ferrari and Red Bull to let the wings flex...Didnt they start of the season with a flexible view of the rule as to the size of the hole in the rear diffuser to allow the engine to be started? Its ok when they bend the rules but not ok when others do it. Bloody cheats.
I still think that we should have been allowed to keep our flexi wings of 2006 because they fit the rules but of course the rules can be changed to ensure that Ferrari is not allowed to keep anything innovative they invent.
Martin and Ross complaining about spending money to invent something that will later be banned...sheesh what a load of hypocrites.

[ferrari4life]

The bulls were freakishly fast today. Honestly speaking, if both the bulls keep their heads on and dont face any tech difficulties, there is no way we are getting higher than 3 here.
Having said that, the bulls are not so reliable. I think MW had some problem with his brake ducts in quali and vettel is capable of botching the start of the race. We are grasping at straws, but thats all we have for this race.
Someone said, we need both the McCheaters to DNF... we need to catch up on them. The bulls can be handled (or they will self destruct.. whichever comes first) eventually.

Massa better watch out for lewser at the start... and Nando better watch out for Massa who will be wanting to prove a point.
That run down to the first turn is going to be nerve wracking.

I dont see the bulls finishing 1-2..
or sure we can yell team orders then after all team orders are not just when one driver is allowed to pass the one in front but also the one behind is not allowed to race the one in front..you know if webber is in front then vettel is going to try something rash and webber is going to close the door.
I have no problems with the bulls being faster than us. they have enough gremlins to ensure they dont get max points out of each race. thats pretty much why McLaren are leading in a slower car at this point

[mandzipop]

The cars have been taken into scrutineering along with the Macs to check the legality. Hmmm. :-E

[Julie B]

From Jonathan Legard

Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren cars inspected by FIA re flexi front wing. No clarification yet. Paddock reeling from Red Bull advantage..

[Stormsearcher]

From Jonathan Legard

Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren cars inspected by FIA re flexi front wing. No clarification yet. Paddock reeling from Red Bull advantage..

Didnt they just declare it legal last weekend?
Or is it that they can be pushed and pushed by Macca until they crack and declare it illegal? This sucks. :furious

[996 GT1 Lover]

I don't see the Red Bulls finishing 1-2 either, but I could be wrong. F1.com shows rain for tomorrow's race, but Google and Weather Underground show sunny weather for tomorrow. :Hmm

[Greig]

Didnt they just declare it legal last weekend?
Or is it that they can be pushed and pushed by Macca until they crack and declare it illegal? This sucks. :furious

It might help us if they are banned :-D

[Hornet]

Didnt they just declare it legal last weekend?
Or is it that they can be pushed and pushed by Macca until they crack and declare it illegal? This sucks. :furious
McLaren sure knows how to get things going in the FIA :Hmm


It might help us if they are banned :-D
What worries me is that we're dragged along as well.
:-??

[Stormsearcher]

It might help us if they are banned :-D

But isnt our new found pace because of this flexi-wing?
besides it could mean they relegate the top 4 to the back of the grid (is that possible?).
Nightmare- Hamilton starts in pole. :-(

[mandzipop]

But isnt our new found pace because of this flexi-wing?
besides it could mean they relegate the top 4 to the back of the grid (is that possible?).
Nightmare- Hamilton starts in pole. :-(

Thats about the cut and thrust of it. :ouch

[Greig]

Thats about the cut and thrust of it. :ouch

No, they will just change the tests to make it illegal, they cant punish anyone for it now as it's legal :-) much like our flexi-floor.

[racingbradley]

That's more than we can bear.

[Stormsearcher]

No, they will just change the tests to make it illegal, they cant punish anyone for it now as it's legal :-) much like our flexi-floor.

hmmm.. it does look like they have it in for us and maybe even RB.

[Greig]

hmmm.. it does look like they have it in for us and maybe even RB.

To be fair, if we never had such a flexi wing then we would be wanting it banned as well :-)

[ferrari4life]

But isnt our new found pace because of this flexi-wing?
besides it could mean they relegate the top 4 to the back of the grid (is that possible?).
Nightmare- Hamilton starts in pole. :-(

they cant do that. they can change the rules..but that doest effect the past

[Stormsearcher]

To be fair, if we never had such a flexi wing then we would be wanting it banned as well :-)

hehe.. i know. But i wish just once,.. once in a while an unfair (if it is that) decision should go in OUR favour. Am tired of seeing the FIA jumping on our backs at the slightest hint of a comeback to form.

[Stormsearcher]

they cant do that. they can change the rules..but that doest effect the past

Pardon my ignorance. But does that mean we get to race with these wings even should they find it illegal by tom morning. And if they state it illegal after the race, do we stand to lose those points?
I just hope not.

[Alonsomaniac]

To be fair, if we never had such a flexi wing then we would be wanting it banned as well :-)

Hehe, exactly! They are all alike, all the teams. The moment they invent something they are completely sure it's perfectly legal, and the moment another team invents something they are completely sure it's very much illegal.
But hey, it's just part of the game...:lol

[FerrariF60]

To be fair, if we never had such a flexi wing then we would be wanting it banned as well :-)

or if it were JUST us that had the flexi front wing, i'm sure the good ol FIA would have declared it ILLEGAL by now; but since is red bull that had it first, they some how "looked the other way" and declared it legal

[mandzipop]

There is sufficient evidence to suggest that the front wings are illegal. However they are passing the FIA tests. They will need to prove that they are legal. The FIA can change the test. There is no proviso for having to give notice to change the test. If it fails that test then we will start from the back of the grid. Toyota got relegated in Australia 2009 after their flexi rear wings were deemed legal and then after quali they were deemed illegal.

Mclaren and Merc aren't protesting that the wing is illegal. It is quite obvious that in theory it is. They are seeking clarification on what is deemed ok within the rules of the scrutineering. This opens up a can of worms. Also it appears that Red Bull (not sure about Ferrari) may have a flexi floor.

[Greig]

There is sufficient evidence to suggest that the front wings are illegal. However they are passing the FIA tests. They will need to prove that they are legal. The FIA can change the test. There is no proviso for having to give notice to change the test. If it fails that test then we will start from the back of the grid. Toyota got relegated in Australia 2009 after their flexi rear wings were deemed legal and then after quali they were deemed illegal.

Mclaren and Merc aren't protesting that the wing is illegal. It is quite obvious that in theory it is. They are seeking clarification on what is deemed ok within the rules of the scrutineering. This opens up a can of worms. Also it appears that Red Bull (not sure about Ferrari) may have a flexi floor.

No they get sent back as they failed scrutineering, we have passed such tests today, if the FIA now change the test then we could not use the wing again if it would fail the test, we have non-flexi wings with us and have used them this weekend. The FIA can't change the test then re-test our cars and send them back, all that would happen is we could not use them again, much like they changed the rules for our flexing floor, we just stopped using it from the next race. I doubt the FIA will change the test mid-weekend anyway.

[FFFerrari]

They won't change the tests during a GP weekend UNLESS they find the parts dangerous (it was the case with Toyota) and I doubt that is the case. And the floor test is very rigid so I doubt they (RB) have a flexi-floor. The McLooser flexi-paranoia seems to spread here too...

[Rob]

RB have had a flexi front wing for age's. Noticed it early on in the year (and last year. coming to think about it) but thought i was seeing things as such devices are banned. Plus if we had that right from the go, we wouldnt of been allowed to carry on racing that wing. Seems as if FIA are turning blind eye abit to certain parts of the RB car. So obvious the front wing is flexing, not by a little bit, but LOADS!!. When we have ours on, doesnt look as bad as RB's.

Anyway, Vettel/Webber will have get together by end of lap 1. No way will Vettel keep straight and not try defend position to Webber. Good chance for Fernando and Felipe not get past. :-D

[dbristol91]

Damn, Vettel is fast! Wow! About 1 second ahead of Alonso...holy crap! It should be interesting tomorrow...go Ferrari! Felipe, God bless you! Alonso, please win tomorrow!

[Tommy_F]

As long as the cars pass scrutineering then they are legal. Cars may be illegal according to the regulations, but as long as the rules are not enforced properly, the engineers can take advantage (see DDD, team orders, flexi-stuff).

[Brakefade]

I can see our wing passing the test, and still being able to flex under downforce, but the RB wing is so flimsy. It looks like it's gonna fall off. Bernie Ecclestone's wig is stiffer.

EDIT: Remeber in 2006 (I think) we had a flexi wing, and the FIA declared it illegal solely on video evidence. Why don't they declare the RB wing illegal earlier. It flexes at least 15cm ours, at that time, flexed by like 3 mm, and the argument could've been made it was just a video error.

[mandzipop]

I think the problem is going to be that the cars are likely to pass any load test applied. As the cars are static in any load test then the tests are useless. Yes there is conclusive tv proof that the wings are too low. But if they cant prove it without the photo's then what can they do? The only tests the FIA can do are load tests, they cant do motion tests. So unless they base the car illegal on tv footage, then I don't think they can do a lot.

I'm having a mood-o-meter moment with this wing-gate situation.

[kazi]

EDIT: Remeber in 2006 (I think) we had a flexi wing, and the FIA declared it illegal solely on video evidence. Why don't they declare the RB wing illegal earlier. It flexes at least 15cm ours, at that time, flexed by like 3 mm, and the argument could've been made it was just a video error.

Because our design was way more obvious, we didn't connect the upper wing with the nose and we had no reason not to. The only reason for our "pin-in-a-hole" design was to allow the front wing to flex. The thing with the RB wing is that no one knows why it flexes, much harder to tell them what to do in order to make it "legal".

[Brakefade]

Yes, they can, they have been way faster all FP and qualifying sessions, not just Q3. I doubt they even used that engine map thing that gives them a few tenths extra, they didn't need it at all.

They obviously used it in Q3.

[FerrariF60]

They obviously used it in Q3.

i thought we had that engine mapping as well....if so have we even used it in Q3??
i guess we'll never know....

but seriously, i dont think that the bulls have used it in FP or Q1 and Q2, as it supposedly puts quite some strain on the motor...so if they were to use it, it would ONLY BE Q3

[Brakefade]

F1: Why Is Red Bull So Fast ?


After the team orders controversy, F1 teams have moved on to a bigger problem: Red Bull's overwhelming pace.

Ferrari looked to have closed the gap with one-two victory at Hockenheim, but on Saturday Sebastian Vettel's 1.2 second advantage over the first non-Red Bull was described in Hungary by Mercedes reserve driver Nick Heidfeld as "frightening".

"I don't know what they are doing, but it's incredible," said McLaren's Lewis Hamilton, who is leading the championship but nearly two seconds off the pace in qualifying.

The 2008 world champion's boss Martin Whitmarsh suspects Red Bull is bending the rules and its front wings too far and gaining as much as a second per lap in that way.

"Or, the front of the floor is moving up further than we expect, because that's another piece of bodywork that's intended to be rigidly attached," said the Briton.

BBC radio commentator and former Super Aguri racer Anthony Davidson said on Saturday: "I've heard rumours about all sorts of things going on, including flexible floors."

When asked what is the secret of Red Bull's speed, Vettel said after qualifying that the answer is "well hidden".

There have been quiet rumours about flexible front wings on the Red Bull since the Chinese grand prix, as long ago as April.

Mercedes' Ross Brawn said on Saturday: "That (the front wing) is not the reason this car is so fast. It's part of many good ideas that all fit together."

Vettel said: "It's the track. The cars have not changed since six days ago, when Ferrari were slightly faster than us. Now they're 1.2 seconds back.

"The only difference between now and then is the track. Just as Hockenheim was perfect for Ferrari, so Hungary is for us."

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-141560.html

Just rumors, but the "well hidden" comment by Vettel is intriguing. Ride height thing, flexi wings, and now this "well hidden" comment. I think Ferrari should start taking some footage with a high speed camera, might show details not seen with pictures or FOM feed.

[Hermann]

Did anyone see the interview with Derek Warwick, who is one of the stewards for the weekend, on BBC before the qualifying? He said when you do team- orders, do it more clever, make the car run wide in a curve or something, the way Ferrari did it was just too obvious....so he is basically saying if you do it in a clever way, we will look some other direction? Hide it, so its not that obvious to the spectators, and they can keep the illusion? This is cynical. True, but cynical nontheless.

So Ferrari has not been penalized for team- orders, but for not hiding it enough. I already suspected that much, but nice from Mr. Warwick to state that openly. It was funny to see EJ defending his viewpoint and Warwick actually defending team orders....

[nikhil4356]

Ross Brawn said on Saturday: "That (the front wing) is not the reason this car is so fast. It's part of many good ideas that all fit together."

Redbull had the fastest car all season. They have wasted their lead already in points standing. Why r now they scating on thin ice risking championship? I have a feeling that Redbull are strongly on the way of losing the championship with the fastest car. That is quite a feat.
As long as RedBull duo take points of each other Alonso can safely be in championship contention even by third place finish and in final races
can go for a kill..............

After front row lock up the question now is what will Red Bull do to throw it all away this time?

Vettel & Webber being too aggressive with each other off the start line, or Vettel again failing to get a decent start and going backwards?

The season theyve had both of those seem far more likely than the easy 1-2 finish their qualifying (and practice) performance would suggest.

Either way it seems like itll be the typical Hungarian race; if theres no rain itll be the perfect time to enjoy a Sunday afternoon nap.

[Tifosi]

Did anyone see the interview with Derek Warwick, who is one of the stewards for the weekend, on BBC before the qualifying? He said when you do team- orders, do it more clever, make the car run wide in a curve or something, the way Ferrari did it was just too obvious....so he is basically saying if you do it in a clever way, we will look some other direction? Hide it, so its not that obvious to the spectators, and they can keep the illusion? This is cynical. True, but cynical nontheless.

So Ferrari has not been penalized for team- orders, but for not hiding it enough. I already suspected that much, but nice from Mr. Warwick to state that openly. It was funny to see EJ defending his viewpoint and Warwick actually defending team orders....

It's not really cynical Hermann, it's just an obvious fact. If someone knows you did something then they tend to think of it differently than if they only suspect you did something. The outcome is the same but the perception is different.

We are all debating the hypocrisy of the other teams bleating on about it (especially when we all know that they do it too), but the fact is that they have been given a perfect opportunity to capitalise on our blatancy in the media for their own ends.

It's a bit like picking your nose. If you make it obvious, expect your family to moan at you about it - even if they do it themselves when you're not looking ;-)