Piquet admits: Massa still blames me for loss of 2008 crown

[steelstallions]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/16082010/23/piquet-admits-massa-blames-loss-2008-crown.html


Nelsinho Piquet has revealed that countryman Felipe Massa has still not forgiven him for the events of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix – a race that has gone down in history as one of the worst and most dangerous examples of cheating in sporting memory, and one that the Ferrari star maintains to his day cost him that year’s F1 World Championship crown.

In a nail-biting Brazilian Grand Prix finale two years ago, Massa won and then lost the title in the dying seconds of the race, crossing the line victorious only for arch-rival Lewis Hamilton to snatch fifth place from Toyota’s Timo Glock barely two corners from the end and with it steal away the coveted trophy by a single point, to the agony of the Paulista’s throngs of partisan supporters in the grandstands.

However, Massa has always contended that it was not Interlagos but rather Singapore that cost him the ultimate prize. The scandalous fall-out from Piquet’s deliberate, ‘race-fixing’ crash around the Marina Bay Street Circuit – orchestrated by disgraced ex-Renault F1 managing director Flavio Briatore and the Enstone-based outfit’s former executive director of engineering Pat Symonds in order to enable team-mate Fernando Alonso to triumph – has been well-documented, and through no fault of his own, Massa arguably paid a hefty price.

The 29-year-old was in control of the race when Piquet had his coming together with the Turn 17 wall, bringing out the safety car and sending the entire field dashing for the pit-lane to refuel – but in the frantic rush to preserve position at the head of the field, Ferrari fumbled the stop, causing Massa to accelerate away again with his fuel hose still attached.

He went on to take the chequered flag a lowly, point-less and perhaps appropriately luckless 13th, with Hamilton notching up six points for third – and almost two years on, Piquet says his elder compatriot still holds him responsible for the subsequent loss of the title.

“I got along well with him (Massa) and with Rubens Barrichello,” the 25-year-old NASCAR convert told Brazilian magazine Istoe. “Both always treated me very well and gave me tips on-track as I knew less [than them]. We sat together in the drivers’ meetings.

“After Singapore it changed a lot. Massa was very upset with me because he thinks, to this day, that he lost the 2008 Championship because of me. It is no use arguing that he had a DNF in Hungary, that he and Ferrari made mistakes – not to mention his lack of luck.

“For the love of God, that last lap at Interlagos was pure luck for Hamilton and bad luck for him, but he is still very upset. I understand, but I don’t suffer much with it anymore. I have never talked to him again. We stumble upon each other every now and then, but we don’t keep in touch.”


First I have read of Massa blaming Piquet, does he need some publicity at Massa's expense?

[Suzie]

Exactly the kind of snivelling, self-pitying interview I'd expect from Piquet. He says that he and Felipe don't speak anymore... to be fair, does ANYONE from F1 keep in contact with Nelson now?

[Brakefade]

Just go fade away into that Nascar void you're in now. Leave F1 alone, nobody cares about you. Go away!

[Rishu]

to be fair, does ANYONE from F1 keep in contact with Nelson now?

I am sure Lewis does :-)
without his help, he would'nt have been 2008 Champion:-G

[Katu]

I am sure Lewis does :-)
without his help, he would'nt have been 2008 Champion:-G

without many people's help hamilton wouldn't have been 2008 champion, including massa himself. it is easier for massa to rather blame Piquet than admit that he (and ferrari) did many mistakes. why not blame kovalainen because he let hamilton pass him in germany. oh that would mean he has to blame himself too, because he let hamilton pass him quite easily. this is childish behaviour. i don't see any self-pity from piquet, just stating the fact that massa doesn't speak to him and that he is done with suffering because massa thinks piquet took away from massa something that he did not have. i see his point and say also like he did, there's no point in arguing with massa's fans.
it's not publicity on massa's expence, they (journalists) asks questions, he answers, it's just the interesting and actual parts that gets picked up and talked about on and on.

[Rishu]

without many people's help hamilton wouldn't have been 2008 champion, including massa himself. it is easier for massa to rather blame Piquet than admit that he (and ferrari) did many mistakes. why not blame kovalainen because he let hamilton pass him in germany. oh that would mean he has to blame himself too, because he let hamilton pass him quite easily. this is childish behaviour. i don't see any self-pity from piquet, just stating the fact that massa doesn't speak to him and that he is done with suffering because massa thinks piquet took away from massa something that he did not have. i see his point and say also like he did, there's no point in arguing with massa's fans.
it's not publicity on massa's expence, they (journalists) asks questions, he answers, it's just the interesting and actual parts that gets picked up and talked about on and on.

Racing incidents happen every year. X passed Y, A passed B & so on…… This is what Championship is all about. Glock’s last corner incident can also be seen as one reason Massa lost the Championship. But I see Massa’s point as in what Piquet did was not racing incident but something manipulative & uncalled for.. Having said that, I agree there is no reason for Massa to let this thought haunt him & he should look ahead

[steelstallions]

without many people's help hamilton wouldn't have been 2008 champion, including massa himself. it is easier for massa to rather blame Piquet than admit that he (and ferrari) did many mistakes. why not blame kovalainen because he let hamilton pass him in germany. oh that would mean he has to blame himself too, because he let hamilton pass him quite easily. this is childish behaviour. i don't see any self-pity from piquet, just stating the fact that massa doesn't speak to him and that he is done with suffering because massa thinks piquet took away from massa something that he did not have. i see his point and say also like he did, there's no point in arguing with massa's fans.
it's not publicity on massa's expence, they (journalists) asks questions, he answers, it's just the interesting and actual parts that gets picked up and talked about on and on.

Your assuming Piquet is telling the truth?
Before posting I searched the internet to see if Massa has in fact said any of this either in public or being quoted as saying it. Guess what, the only person saying it is Piquet, Massa has not even been quoted as replying to what he's saying about him.
http://www.setanta.com/ie/Articles/2010/08/12/Piquet-Jr-Massa-insulted-by-crash/gnid-74637/
http://motoring.iafrica.com/formulaone/2496653.htm

For those that do know me on here will know I don't favour either of our drivers so long as one of them wins the WDC and both contribute well for the WCC.
So when I say Piquet is a:-
lying (he kept the reason for his deliberate crash secret to the officials, drivers and media who questioned him at the time),
manipulative (he only threatened to use this information when he was being discharged from Renault)
back stabbing scum bag (he did use this information to bring down his fellow conspirators but only with the safety of FIA protection).
I say it as a fan of F1 not just taking sides with Massa because I am a devoted fan of his.

I find it hard to believe anything Piquet or his father says is correct, most likely anything they say is a complete distortion of the truth. For example do you believe he was in innocent party in the crash gate? It came to light it was him who sold the idea to Flavio!!!

Massa, like many in F1, may not want to talk to Piquet because he and his father are regarded by many as the scum of the motoring world, rather than the reason being touted by Piquet for his own personal publicity. No doubt having a conversation with the Piquet's runs a bigger risk of distorted reporting than the lowest of low tabloid press, why risk it when your still an F1 driver and they are not?

[Katu]

can you please show me where it came to light that Piquet sold this idea to Flav? i've never seen it anywhere. surely nelson wasn't inoccent in that crash, he crashed the car to save his own butt for some time.
it's your opinion, which i have no interest to change, but please stick with facts that are actually proven.
you say he is lying person, but so are all of them. show me a driver who ever hasn't lied to media, fellow drivers or officials (i guess nobody really questioned his crash back then, it came out later after observing telemetry how he did it, if anyone had previous questions, they could have found it out earlier)
manipulative - he did not treathen team, that's why flav and piquets are going to court. if he was manipulative, he would have asked more testingdays, better contitions (treatment inside the team), better contract, more salary, new parts for his car earlier than Alonsos. well i would have done that.
backstabbing scum bag - hello!!! his manager screwed him first! he was loyal to the team until the team was loyal to him. and if you have FIA power behind your back it would have been complete lack of brain to go alone against Flav.
and i say these things not because i like him, but because my common sense says so. i would be taking his side anyday, anyway! i believe his words more than some others, because he has nothing to gain, nothing to lose.

[aroutis]

show me a driver who ever hasn't lied to mediaKimi, perhaps Mika too, Gilles, there are plenty.

[mad_ani]

Massa maintained this from 2009:



Felipe Massa afforded Nelson Piquet Jr a cursory handshake when the pair met at a Brazilian kart circuit this week, but repeated the claim that his countryman's 'accident' in last year's Singapore Grand Prix cost him the F1 world title.

Although Piquet attempted to greet the recovering Massa when they bumped into each other at the Kartodromo Granja Viana, the Ferrari pilot reportedly resisted the offered embrace and opted for a polite handshake instead. Piquet, clearly embarrassed by the awkwardness of the situation, left briskly and their paths did not cross again for the remainder of the day.

The pair were testing karts ahead of forthcoming 'all-star' events in Brazil, with Massa taking his first laps in anything since his horrendous accident in qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix in July. According to Sao Paulo's O Globo, Piquet complimented his countryman on his recovery, but received short shrift in return, as Massa continued to brood on the outcome of last year's world championship battle having lost what appeared to be a certain win in Singapore when the safety car came out to recover Piquet's crashed Renault.

With the younger Brazilian now having claimed that he was instructed to crash in order to help team-mate Fernando Alonso take a much-needed victory for the regie, Massa believes that, despite later suffering a pit-lane incident that ruled out any points at all, he and the Ferrari team would not have been in that position had it not been for the safety car period.

Although neither driver wanted to comment on their brief meeting, Massa has already made his feelings clear in an interview with TV Globo.

"It was an ugly attitude for a team to tell a driver that he had to crash to have his contract renewed," he said, "Piquet knew he was going to be fired, so he was vulnerable.

"[His actions] created a lot of things, as the safety car meant that most of the cars had to go the pit. We had ten cars going in, and my stop went wrong [when] a mechanic pressed a button in a situation that would never have happened in a normal pit-stop. That's why it bothers me, Renault stole the win."

While he accepts that Piquet's revelation of the truth was a worthy act, Massa insists that he should not have waited so long to do so, especially as it meant that there was no chance of having the result - and the outcome of the world championship - adjusted.

"He only told the truth because he was fired," the Brazilian insisted, "Everything that happened that day was robbery, but the result remains the same and that is not right. It changed the outcome of a championship and I lost.

"I have seen referees take money to throw a game in football, and all the suspect results were annulled, but all they have done here is sent [Flavio] Briatore home. I don't think it is right."

It was one of the causes, but we also had a reliability issue in Hungary which cost him the win...thats more than 1 point needed...and Kimi also did move over...
Belgium win given to Massa after Lewis was stripped of his title and a decent performance in Silverstone in the rain would have added more points as well....


All results are frozen after the end of the year gala held in Monaco...and although teams maybe punished at a later date, results cannot be changed...

[Greig]

Massa also spun out when leading comfortably in Malaysia, I would not think Massa could blame Nelson, but he is right not to speak to him :-D

[Anni]

Massa maintained this from 2009:




It was one of the causes, but we also had a reliability issue in Hungary which cost him the win...thats more than 1 point needed...and Kimi also did move over...
Belgium win given to Massa after Lewis was stripped of his title and a decent performance in Silverstone in the rain would have added more points as well....


All results are frozen after the end of the year gala held in Monaco...and although teams maybe punished at a later date, results cannot be changed...

In my opinion the point which is bothering Massa about Piquet is not only the fact Piquet crashed (Massa surly knows he didn´t loose the title just due to this one race) but foremost the fact he didn´t tell anyone until he was fired. He knew if the result of that race would have been annulled Massa would have been world champion and yet he kept silent until he himself wanted revenge against Renault and Briatore.

As Piquet himself pointed out, Massa had been very kind to him and then Piquet knew Hamilton was not the legitimate world champion since Singapore would have had to be annulled, and yet he kept quiet.
I comprehend Piquet didn´t want to end his career when it was just in the beginning, but I also see Massa´s point: If Piquet would have told the truth between the Brazilian GP and the year gala Massa would have been world champion.

[Katu]

think about this situation like this. happens WMSC decide that they do nothing with Germany 2010 and Alonso and Massa both keep their points and Alonso wins WDC with less than 7 points. few years later when Massa thinks that Ferrari has done something incompatible to him and rats out that indeed it was teamorder that made him let Alonso pass, the others who lost the title to Alonso with less than 7 points would not speak to him, because they think that had Massa came out with this earlier the title would have been someone elses.

[Anni]

think about this situation like this. happens WMSC decide that they do nothing with Germany 2010 and Alonso and Massa both keep their points and Alonso wins WDC with less than 7 points. few years later when Massa thinks that Ferrari has done something incompatible to him and rats out that indeed it was teamorder that made him let Alonso pass, the others who lost the title to Alonso with less than 7 points would not speak to him, because they think that had Massa came out with this earlier the title would have been someone elses.


I comprehend Piquet didn´t want to end his career when it was just in the beginning, but I also see Massa´s point: If Piquet would have told the truth between the Brazilian GP and the year gala Massa would have been world champion.

I would understand Massa as well as the one who wouldn´t speak with him anymore.

[RACERX11]

The only responsible person for Massa's losing the Championship is Timo Glock.. I wish he would move out of F1...

[Anni]

The only responsible person for Massa's losing the Championship is Timo Glock.. I wish he would move out of F1...

Timo Glock hardly moved over for Hamilton on purpose. :-??

[steelstallions]

can you please show me where it came to light that Piquet sold this idea to Flav?

http://www.worldcarfans.com/109091021635/symonds-says-singapore-crash-was-piquets-idea


Symonds says Singapore crash was Piquet's ideaThe accusation that Renault instructed Nelson Piquet to crash on purpose at last year's Singapore grand prix did originate from the now-ousted Brazilian driver, it is reported......................Documents lodged in reply to the accusations by Briatore and Symonds confirm the pre-race meeting but Symonds insists it was Piquet who suggested the crash be staged during the "conversation".

[Katu]

it's symonds words against Piquet's. sry, but symonds words are less credible.Piquet was able to provide sworn statement, which symonds did not. nor did he attended WMSC hearing (with Flav who is still in denial of what happened), so i guess it's not proven that it was indeed Piquet's idea. hmm i wonder what would witness x say about that

[Agron]

The only responsible person for Massa's losing the Championship is Timo Glock.. I wish he would move out of F1...The only one responsible for Massa losing the championship is Massa, period. If he had made an error-free season while driving extremely fast, he would have won. He did good, but not good enough.

Not that I don't understand Massa's anger, for once he had his teammate under control and he had the chance to win a championship against two of the best current drivers, instead he came the closest you can get and lost it, and considering the relative speeds of his new teammate and his and how this new one gets on well with the team, 2008 may have been his best chance at winning the championship, from now on it will probably a bit more difficult. I would be truly devastated in his place to be honest; well, as devastated as a rich and succesful guy like him can be :lol.


Anyway considering Alonso was champion in 2007 until Massa moved over for Raikkonen, it's funny for him to be angry at Piquet, how angry should Alonso be at him then? :lol

[Suzie]

Moving over is a bit different from purposely throwing a car into a wall though.

[Katu]

Anyway considering Alonso was champion in 2007 until Massa moved over for Raikkonen, it's funny for him to be angry at Piquet, how angry should Alonso be at him then? :lol
spot on

Moving over is a bit different from purposely throwing a car into a wall though.
actually not really, had he ran on puropse into massa, that would make the story different

[Greig]

Anyway considering Alonso was champion in 2007 until Massa moved over for Raikkonen, it's funny for him to be angry at Piquet, how angry should Alonso be at him then? :lol

Well maybe Alonso should have done a error free season too then :-)

[Suzie]

spot on

actually not really, had he ran on puropse into massa, that would make the story different

You're saying that moving over on the track as part of a team order to help a teammate win a Championship is the same as intentionally crashing into a wall and endangering people to throw a race?

[Katu]

You're saying that moving over on the track as part of a team order to help a teammate win a Championship is the same as intentionally crashing into a wall and endangering people to throw a race?

his intention wasn't endangering people, but help a teammate. teamorder is a teamorder, no matter how you serve it

[Suzie]

Okay fair enough, maybe I'm alone in seeing a difference.

[Greig]

his intention wasn't endangering people, but help a teammate. teamorder is a teamorder, no matter how you serve it

Come off it, surely you can see the difference between the two, so you will be suggesting Stefano should be punished the same as Flavio?

[Katu]

seems to me now that Flav really wasn't punished, he can come back (only after limited time).i agree flavio-piquet case is a little different to stefano-massa case. flavio obviously had too much power over his young unexperienced employee being also his manager.

[Greig]

Flavio wasn't punished? lost his job was not anything then right? He can come back, who wants him?

I can't see how you can compare crashing on purpose to cause a safety car and risk lives to a driver lifting off while coming down the pitlane though :-)

[Katu]

trust me, someone will want him. but he f***ed up not only one drivers career, but two (including here Grosjean), helped to put his friend Alonso (who is completly out of this thing) in a bad light. there was obvious conflict of interests, he cashed a person who he paid salary, in negotiations of salary, he probably had a talk with himself in the mirror.

[Agron]

Well maybe Alonso should have done a error free season too then :-)Exactly. A championship doesn't depend on a single event but on your performance in all the races, Alonso usually says that, and in fact that's what he answered -if I remember correctly- when he was asked about Massa moving over for Raikkonen, he considered it natural and expected it and that those two points he should have won in some other race, as in that race it was impossible.

Suzie, indeed both Piquet's and Massa's events are different, one is scandalous and unsporsmanhip at it's best while the other is completely accepted if still teoretically ilegal, but for the guy that lost the WDC because of those, both are exactly the same: someone screwing your championships chances (in case of Alonso, the championship, period) to favour a teammate.

[Tifosi]

his intention wasn't endangering people, but help a teammate. teamorder is a teamorder, no matter how you serve it

dear dear

[steelstallions]

it's symonds words against Piquet's. sry, but symonds words are less credible.Piquet was able to provide sworn statement, which symonds did not. nor did he attended WMSC hearing (with Flav who is still in denial of what happened), so i guess it's not proven that it was indeed Piquet's idea. hmm i wonder what would witness x say about that

There a pair of lying cheating scum bags and as there is no honour amongst thieves neither can be trusted.
You asked me to provide links to the story and you got one of many.
You obviously have a soft spot for Piquet and have decided this cheat is more credible than Symonds or Flavio, that's your opinion, but don't assume others share that sentiment.
He only ran to the FIA when he was ousted from Renault for his unimpressive results and only spoke when FIA guarenteed he would not be punished as well. Not bad for a guy who put marshals lives at risk by deliberately crashing his car in a race. If you crashed a road vehicle deliberately on a public road you would face criminal charges, regardless of who's idea it was.

[Katu]

i am not piquet's defence advocate here (i'm representing other side of renault's garage 2008, 2009), but i ovbiously do have a soft spot for him, just because i know what it feels like being in a risk to lose a job (in his case thing he loved, in mine, just a place that paid me my salary) and i remember how i fought for keeping it, with my teeth and nails. as bernie said - 'If I tell you to go and rob a bank and you get caught, you can't say, 'Bernie told me to'', but put around that person a bomb belt and then say 'rob a bank'. not that i'm trying to say that he is innocent, he had his share in all of this, he did many mistakes which probably led to thinking that if he crashed no one would suspect. i don't approve what he did, i just understand it. i think he was punished having flav as a manager and teamboss plenty enough, why would he have wanted to risk with more punishments. i clearly understand why he wanted to screw Flav after he fired him. that's just human nature, not extremely vindictive side of him.
alonso didn't speak about spygate without fias protection, it is called conserving instinct
i asked for links but none of that is actually proven, so you cannot say it like it's a fact. if the crashing idea was piquet's, he is doing wrong job, he is strategy genius

[mad_ani]

The FIA has drawn a line under the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix Crashgate scandal, after reaching an agreement with former Renault chiefs Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds.

Briatore and Symonds were banned from motor racing by the FIA's World Motor Sport Council after conspiring with Nelson Piquet Jr to cause a deliberate crash during the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix. However, the duo won an appeal against the decision in the French court earlier this year and had their bans overturned.

The FIA had planned to appeal that decision, but on Monday it announced it would be taking no further action against the pair in return for an apology and their agreement not to take part in Formula One again until the start of 2013.

"After discussions between their lawyers and those of the FIA, Mr Flavio Briatore and Mr Pat Symonds have each made a settlement offer to the FIA President with a view to putting an immediate end to the legal proceedings," read an FIA statement. "Each of them recognising his share of responsibility for the deliberate crash involving the driver Nelson Piquet Jr at the 2008 Grand Prix of Singapore, as "Team Principal" of Renault F1 where Mr Flavio Briatore is concerned, they have expressed their regrets and presented their apologies to the FIA.

"They have undertaken to abstain from having any operational role in Formula One until 31 December 2012, as well as in all the other competitions registered on the FIA calendars until the end of the 2011 sporting season. They have also abandoned all publicity and financial measures resulting from the judgment of 5 January 2010, as well as any further action against the FIA on the subject of this affair.

"In return, they have asked the FIA to abandon the ongoing appeal procedure, but without the FIA recognising the validity of the criticisms levelled against the WMSC's decision of 21 September 2009, as well as to waive the right to bring any new proceedings against them on the subject of this affair.

"Considering that the judgment of 5 January 2010 concerned only the form and not the substance of the WMSC's decision of 21 September 2009, and that the undertakings and renunciation of all claims expressed by Mr Flavio Briatore and Mr Pat Symonds are in line with what the WMSC is seeking, the FIA President has considered that it is in the best interests of the FIA not to allow the perpetuation of these legal disputes, which have received a great deal of media coverage and which, regardless of the outcome, are very prejudicial to the image of the FIA and of motor sport, and thus to accept this settlement solution, thereby putting an end to this affair."

Referring to the French court's decision, the FIA also said it was continuing to work on its structural reform to "prevent other misunderstandings" in the future.

[Greig]

Exactly. A championship doesn't depend on a single event but on your performance in all the races, Alonso usually says that, and in fact that's what he answered -if I remember correctly- when he was asked about Massa moving over for Raikkonen, he considered it natural and expected it and that those two points he should have won in some other race, as in that race it was impossible.


Maybe my memory is poor but Alonso finished 3rd in the standings if Massa never moved for Kimi then how would Alonso have been champ anyway, would Lewis still not be ahead of him?

[Agron]

Maybe my memory is poor but Alonso finished 3rd in the standings if Massa never moved for Kimi then how would Alonso have been champ anyway, would Lewis still not be ahead of him?Guess you are right, swap Ham for Alonso then :-P

[semper]

Massa also spun out when leading comfortably in Malaysia, I would not think Massa could blame Nelson, but he is right not to speak to him :-D

Hate to be a nitpicker but he spun out from being in second position. But comfortably second, yes.

[pilotHans]

i think it's normal for a driver to feel that way.....by time it will cool down....

for me, 2008 wdc will always be tainted...always.....:-D now i just hope felipe wins at least one wdc before he retires from ferrari :-)