A call to sensibility from a Ferrari fan like ALL on this great forum!

[Nando]

I posted this in the Belgian Race thread but thought I'd create a new thread to just get my message across... I hope it can help in some way to bring things back to a simmering discussion rather than the sizzling boiling point of negativity they seem to have reached on TSN lately :-s

I haven't really been able to read or comment often, but....
...WOW! I never thought Ferrari fans, the most passionate of all - could actually sink to these depths. EVERY SINGLE team goes through pain and self-doubt no matter what sport it may be. You only have to look at Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls to realise this - 7 years of turmoil and heartbreak before the Bulls became a 6-time world champion dynasty - it's one example of hundreds of similar stories in sports. His name is STILL one of the most recognised names around the world. Much like one M. Schumacher. Schu isn't remembered for being a Merc driver or a Benetton driver. Or anything else for that matter. He's remembered under the Ferrari banner. He's remembered and recognised as still having Ferrari blood running though his veins. This is the power of Ferrari. This is why young kids still hand him a red hat to get his signature!

Everyone who's a Ferrari fan realises that it hasn't been the 2 best years for us so far. Fernando has till 2016 to build the team back up to the calibre of 'world-beater'. The team has also seen some change and it takes time to embed these foundations and function as effectively as a Todt-Brawn-Byrne-Schu led team that I should mention - also only won their first championship together in the 5th year!! See - these things take time.

Can we all not yell and scream (esp. at each other) as this is not adding to anything productive, nor is it going to change any results. We see every race that we're trying our best to stay with the leaders, but without everything coming together in harmony - it's a tough ask in F1.

I'm not going to criticise anyone for making any type of comment - whether it be negative towards the team, a driver, prinicipal or anyone else for that matter. I'm just under the understanding that no matter how much we bicker amongst ourselves, it isn't going to change anything, so why not be happy with what we have and what Fernando has done with a sub-par machine, and expect to be rewarded for our loyalty and passion in 2012?!? or 2013?!? or 2014?!? - but being a Ferrari fan, I really hope it's 2012!! ;-)

Roll on Monza!! :ferrarifl:ferrarifl <--- That's 2 flags for our 1-2 @ MONZA!!!!

[paolo lalli]

very well said nando all fans should just controll there emotions and just ask your self how does the ferrari results impact on your current life . lets be constructive and not destructive.THEY HAVE ALREADY BOUNCED BACK FOR THOSE THAT HAVE PAID ATTENTION AND MORE WILL COME SOMETIMES LUCK ABANDONS YOU .

[Corey]

People are always asked to play nice all the time. But those words just enter their left ears and come back out through their right. It's basically wasting saliva just talking to them about it, and I have a feeling this "complaint letter" to them will just be the same.

[impactX]

LOL I don't know why people are so mad, they obviously expected too much from Stefano Domenicali and expected him to steer us into the right direction with his business administration background. After 3 disappointing seasons, what's 1 more bad race? lol.

After last race, I just turned off the TV and it was life as usual. Being 4th isn't that bad, don't expect more and you will not be disappointed.

[Corey]

Probably because people make themselves drunk in hopes of erasing the bad memories of the race, but they fail and to make it worst, the alcohol makes them go hyper and get out of themselves, they then start acting like a mad dog. That explains all the *crap* those lot spewed all over the Belgium Race Thread.

[NanoTheQuickest]

I look forward to our boys kicking some butts when we get to the sunshine of Italy.

I want to see some of these when:ferrariflMonza:ferrariflcomes

A good supporter support his/her Team through both hell and heaven

[racingbradley]

Our lives do not depend on Ferrari winning on a Sunday afternoon.
Winning is sweeter when it is hard to achieve.
Monza here we come. :-D

[F2008]

Our lives do not depend on Ferrari winning on a Sunday afternoon.
Winning is sweeter when it is hard to achieve.

Very true. For me, Kimi's win at Spa in 2009 was almost as good as winning the championship. Alonso battling against the dominant Red Bull team in 2010 was also great to watch. If somehow Massa could still win a race this year, that would be fantastic. Maybe in Brazil, in his 100th race for Ferrari.

[impactX]

I have a feeling Stefano will owe LdM another TV comes Monza.

[racingbradley]

If somehow Massa could still win a race this year, that would be fantastic. Maybe in Brazil, in his 100th race for Ferrari.
That would be awesome. :thumb

[luicchi]

Disapointed with the season , but always and forever a Ferrari fan :ferrarifl

[burak karakutuk]

Ferrari is my life when i knew it.I saw a lot of victories,wonderful memories,dissapointed times,fails...But!!! Never giving up to support so mates i wish some peace for you:-);-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0oqDoXmtro&feature=related

also Italian National Anthem is one of the best anthems in the world.When i hear i am happy:-D

[sav_pap]

Agree 100% and I re-post my yesterday's 12:37 to the other thread:

We all have to calm down. We can't change anything. What happened, happened. We must stay united and not argue all the time. It's useless. It could be much better if we all post our opinions without comments to other posts. I don't know. The only we are achieving now is to make other team's fans laughing at us (if there are some of them in this forum...). Is this our spirit?? Acting like babies??? Our team doesn't deserve this. Be patient. It's not the easiest thing but it's not also the most difficult. I'm also tired of seeing others overtaking our cars so easy. I'm sure the opposite also will come true soon.

[epiclyaddicted]

Our lives do not depend on Ferrari winning on a Sunday afternoon.


It DOESN'T?! :-(

:-D

[Liscia]

Why do we worry and complain? It's just plain physics; cream always rises to the top!
FORZA FERRARI!!!

[racingbradley]

Why do we worry and complain? It's just plain physics; cream always rises to the top!
FORZA FERRARI!!!
:clap oh I just love your post. :-D

[Rob]

Ferrari is my life when i knew it.I saw a lot of victories,wonderful memories,dissapointed times,fails...But!!! Never giving up to support so mates i wish some peace for you:-);-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0oqDoXmtro&feature=related

also Italian National Anthem is one of the best anthems in the world.When i hear i am happy:-D

love the Wolfmother

[Rob]

We win as a team we loose as a team. We have won a race this year, good 1 at that.

[Ken]

I posted this in the Belgian Race thread but thought I'd create a new thread to just get my message across... I hope it can help in some way to bring things back to a simmering discussion rather than the sizzling boiling point of negativity they seem to have reached on TSN lately :-s

I haven't really been able to read or comment often, but....
...WOW! I never thought Ferrari fans, the most passionate of all - could actually sink to these depths. EVERY SINGLE team goes through pain and self-doubt no matter what sport it may be. You only have to look at Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls to realise this - 7 years of turmoil and heartbreak before the Bulls became a 6-time world champion dynasty - it's one example of hundreds of similar stories in sports. His name is STILL one of the most recognised names around the world. Much like one M. Schumacher. Schu isn't remembered for being a Merc driver or a Benetton driver. Or anything else for that matter. He's remembered under the Ferrari banner. He's remembered and recognised as still having Ferrari blood running though his veins. This is the power of Ferrari. This is why young kids still hand him a red hat to get his signature!

Everyone who's a Ferrari fan realises that it hasn't been the 2 best years for us so far. Fernando has till 2016 to build the team back up to the calibre of 'world-beater'. The team has also seen some change and it takes time to embed these foundations and function as effectively as a Todt-Brawn-Byrne-Schu led team that I should mention - also only won their first championship together in the 5th year!! See - these things take time.

Can we all not yell and scream (esp. at each other) as this is not adding to anything productive, nor is it going to change any results. We see every race that we're trying our best to stay with the leaders, but without everything coming together in harmony - it's a tough ask in F1.

I'm not going to criticise anyone for making any type of comment - whether it be negative towards the team, a driver, prinicipal or anyone else for that matter. I'm just under the understanding that no matter how much we bicker amongst ourselves, it isn't going to change anything, so why not be happy with what we have and what Fernando has done with a sub-par machine, and expect to be rewarded for our loyalty and passion in 2012?!? or 2013?!? or 2014?!? - but being a Ferrari fan, I really hope it's 2012!! ;-)

Roll on Monza!! :ferrarifl:ferrarifl <--- That's 2 flags for our 1-2 @ MONZA!!!!

Great article and I hope those that cannot contain the frustration will take note.

I wonder how many of those that do complain would have stuck it out during the bad years from 1984 to 1997 ?? I did and so did a few other silver haired supporters here.

[Tifoso]

1. I agree :-)


2. I feel sorry for Alonso....not too sorry considering the bucks he makes, but sorry


3. Heads need to roll if we aren't very competitive, even dominant out of the box in 2012, though :-)

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

1. I agree :-)


2. I feel sorry for Alonso....not too sorry considering the bucks he makes, but sorry


3. Heads need to roll if we aren't very competitive, even dominant out of the box in 2012, though :-) 100% agree!!!

[Imperatore]

Ferrari spend more than any other team and LDM wants to see good results not finishing where they are now. Hopefully next year will be better.

[cool_marni]

Ferrari spend more than any other team and LDM wants to see good results not finishing where they are now. Hopefully next year will be better.

Arent all teams limited by Resource agreement?

[Greig]

Arent all teams limited by Resource agreement?

No ask red bull

[justjesper]

No ask red bull

Don't think you can actually say that without prof. But then again it's just a forum.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Don't think you can actually say that without prof. But then again it's just a forum.


http://www.crash.net/f1/news/165678/1/did_red_bull_break_resource_limits_agreement.html


"At the last FOTA meeting, Red Bull asked for an exception," Mosley told Germany's Auto Motor und Sport, "If that's true, that can only mean they spent more than they were allowed. Now they're asking for the [other] teams' okay [to have done so].”

[Greig]

Don't think you can actually say that without prof. But then again it's just a forum.

I can and did say it

[luicchi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn6CDF3BZ6M

You listen this , and view this and all your deception will goo....Ferrari is always Ferrari:ferrarifl

[justjesper]

I can and did say it

:lol well spoken.

[da_one]

I call on Greig to ban the fair weathered fans with the "Off with his head" or blame anyone except my favorite driver attitude LOL! :pray ;-)

Seriously, I became a Ferrari fan when MS came on board and until now, in spite of the fact that MS is driving for another team. I've been a member of the forum since the Rivals days (Greig knows me by my other username 'watdhek') and for years we have endured countless idiotic posts from Ferrari 'fans' (are they really?) and non-Ferrari fans. From experience, these nut jobs only shut their pie holes when Ferrari win it all. Unfortunately, the team is not winning at the moment, and that is why they are back in full force. My advice to the real Ferrari fans- just ignore their rants because Ferrari will be back on top real soon, they will find a way I just know it! Heck isn't that the reason why we support Ferrari in the first place?

Red Bull is poised to win both titles this year (again), and hats off to them because they built a better car (no they didn't cheat) and performed more efficiently and consistently as a team. Simply put, we are not good enough this year but we did fight back and we are not giving up still. The fact that we made major changes to our technical department means that we are getting aggressive but we have to understand that it takes time, just like the OP said. Success doesn't come overnight. That is why a true Ferrari fan will remain patient, sensible, and optimistic.

[Tifoso]

I call on Greig to ban the fair weathered fans with the "Off with his head" or blame anyone except my favorite driver attitude LOL! :pray ;-)

Seriously, I became a Ferrari fan when MS came on board and until now, in spite of the fact that MS is driving for another team. I've been a member of the forum since the Rivals days (Greig knows me by my other username 'watdhek') and for years we have endured countless idiotic posts from Ferrari 'fans' (are they really?) and non-Ferrari fans. From experience, these nut jobs only shut their pie holes when Ferrari win it all. Unfortunately, the team is not winning at the moment, and that is why they are back in full force. My advice to the real Ferrari fans- just ignore their rants because Ferrari will be back on top real soon, they will find a way I just know it! Heck isn't that the reason why we support Ferrari in the first place?

Red Bull is poised to win both titles this year (again), and hats off to them because they built a better car (no they didn't cheat) and performed more efficiently and consistently as a team. Simply put, we are not good enough this year but we did fight back and we are not giving up still. The fact that we made major changes to our technical department means that we are getting aggressive but we have to understand that it takes time, just like the OP said. Success doesn't come overnight. That is why a true Ferrari fan will remain patient, sensible, and optimistic.

Great post. :thumb :-)

You can always just put a user on ignore. ;-)

[Nando]

I call on Greig to ban the fair weathered fans with the "Off with his head" or blame anyone except my favorite driver attitude LOL! :pray ;-)

Seriously, I became a Ferrari fan when MS came on board and until now, in spite of the fact that MS is driving for another team. I've been a member of the forum since the Rivals days (Greig knows me by my other username 'watdhek') and for years we have endured countless idiotic posts from Ferrari 'fans' (are they really?) and non-Ferrari fans. From experience, these nut jobs only shut their pie holes when Ferrari win it all. Unfortunately, the team is not winning at the moment, and that is why they are back in full force. My advice to the real Ferrari fans- just ignore their rants because Ferrari will be back on top real soon, they will find a way I just know it! Heck isn't that the reason why we support Ferrari in the first place?

Red Bull is poised to win both titles this year (again), and hats off to them because they built a better car (no they didn't cheat) and performed more efficiently and consistently as a team. Simply put, we are not good enough this year but we did fight back and we are not giving up still. The fact that we made major changes to our technical department means that we are getting aggressive but we have to understand that it takes time, just like the OP said. Success doesn't come overnight. That is why a true Ferrari fan will remain patient, sensible, and optimistic.

Spot ON!! :thumb Time... We'll get there, but give the team some time :munch

[cool_marni]

No ask red bull

So RRA is imposed by the teams (FOTA) and not by FIA etc. Now that HRT are not in FOTA, do they mean they can spend unlimited resources if they have $$$$?

Not a very perfect way (but then what is ?) of keeping limits..

[NJB13]

..... HRT ...... can spend unlimited resources....?

Now that really is funny :-)

I doubt HRT could spend their way out of a wet paper bag

[Hornet]

The budget limit was merely an agreement, but its not a rule that is put in place and enforced by the FIA.

Guess we cant expect a drinks company to have the proper decorum in sports :-G

[cool_marni]

Now that really is funny :-)

I doubt HRT could spend their way out of a wet paper bag

Maybe you forgot to read the rest of the statement where i said "...if they have enough $$$$" :-)

I know that they dont, what I ask is this:
Can any team can get out of FOTA and not adhere to RRA? If yes, then Ferrari can basically walk out of FOTA and spend as much as they want, like they did in early 2000's.

[NJB13]

Maybe you forgot to read the rest of the statement where i said "...if they have enough $$$$" :-)

I know that they dont, what I ask is this:
Can any team can get out of FOTA and not adhere to RRA? If yes, then Ferrari can basically walk out of FOTA and spend as much as they want, like they did in early 2000's.

I always thought your point was a fair thing to raise and discuss. I wasn't having a go at you or your post. Just the thought of HRT spending up large like a Ferrari or RBR was, for me very funny.

In particular, when the RRA (Resource Restriction Agreement) was penned by FOTA, HRT was a member, so, them or another team leaving FOTA does not necessarily mean they are any less bound by the agreement.

For a contract to carry weight it needs 6 elements (in most modern western based legal systems anyway). Given the RRA had those basic 6 elements, then, the agreement would have to have stipulated penalties and, lastly, there would need to be an effort by one of the parties to enforce the contract or to impose the penalties.

As far as I know, no-one here is privy to the RRA, so we don't know if it had any enforcement or penalties and we also don't know where the jurisdiction is. So everything is pure speculation. Lastly, the penalties can only be expressed in terms of things the signatories can control. This means if the FiA wasn't a signatory then deduction of FiA points in their championships cannot be a penalty. However, valid penalties might be financial or additional restrictions into the future. Lastly, given that this is an civil type agreement, any aggrieved party/signatory could claim/file for damages. What this means is if a team feels they suffered any damages because another team broke the agreement then, they could seek to prove the damage they suffered in the court of jurisdiction and then, if successful the offending party would have to pay the aggrieved party the amount access to that damage by the court. For example, McLaren might claim they lost 10% of their sales income because Red Bull won the championship in 2010 by breaching the RRA. McLaren would have to prove the quantity of those damages, and they would have to prove that RBR broke the contract and they would have to prove their loss was not too "remote" to RBR's action of breaking the contract. If so, a court could order that RBR had to pay McLaren all the money they lost in sales.

The above litigation scenario is what we might see if this all took place in the US ;-)

[Greig]

Maybe you forgot to read the rest of the statement where i said "...if they have enough $$$$" :-)

I know that they dont, what I ask is this:
Can any team can get out of FOTA and not adhere to RRA? If yes, then Ferrari can basically walk out of FOTA and spend as much as they want, like they did in early 2000's.

Yes mclaren can leave fota and spend as much as they like

[cool_marni]

Ferrari =! Mclaren ;-)

[Rob]

I call on Greig to ban the fair weathered fans with the "Off with his head" or blame anyone except my favorite driver attitude LOL! :pray ;-)

Seriously, I became a Ferrari fan when MS came on board and until now, in spite of the fact that MS is driving for another team. I've been a member of the forum since the Rivals days (Greig knows me by my other username 'watdhek') and for years we have endured countless idiotic posts from Ferrari 'fans' (are they really?) and non-Ferrari fans. From experience, these nut jobs only shut their pie holes when Ferrari win it all. Unfortunately, the team is not winning at the moment, and that is why they are back in full force. My advice to the real Ferrari fans- just ignore their rants because Ferrari will be back on top real soon, they will find a way I just know it! Heck isn't that the reason why we support Ferrari in the first place?

Red Bull is poised to win both titles this year (again), and hats off to them because they built a better car (no they didn't cheat) and performed more efficiently and consistently as a team. Simply put, we are not good enough this year but we did fight back and we are not giving up still. The fact that we made major changes to our technical department means that we are getting aggressive but we have to understand that it takes time, just like the OP said. Success doesn't come overnight. That is why a true Ferrari fan will remain patient, sensible, and optimistic.

well said, great post :clap

[Greig]

Ferrari =! Mclaren ;-)

No just seemed a loaded question against Ferrari, any FOTA team can leave and not do as they agreed, not just Ferrari.....

And in the early 2000's you will find others spending as much or more, see Toyota, McLaren....

[scuderiafan]

I call on Greig to ban the fair weathered fans with the "Off with his head" or blame anyone except my favorite driver attitude LOL! :pray ;-)

Seriously, I became a Ferrari fan when MS came on board and until now, in spite of the fact that MS is driving for another team. I've been a member of the forum since the Rivals days (Greig knows me by my other username 'watdhek') and for years we have endured countless idiotic posts from Ferrari 'fans' (are they really?) and non-Ferrari fans. From experience, these nut jobs only shut their pie holes when Ferrari win it all. Unfortunately, the team is not winning at the moment, and that is why they are back in full force. My advice to the real Ferrari fans- just ignore their rants because Ferrari will be back on top real soon, they will find a way I just know it! Heck isn't that the reason why we support Ferrari in the first place?

Red Bull is poised to win both titles this year (again), and hats off to them because they built a better car (no they didn't cheat) and performed more efficiently and consistently as a team. Simply put, we are not good enough this year but we did fight back and we are not giving up still. The fact that we made major changes to our technical department means that we are getting aggressive but we have to understand that it takes time, just like the OP said. Success doesn't come overnight. That is why a true Ferrari fan will remain patient, sensible, and optimistic.

:clap