Jenson Button and his championship chances.....does he have a chance? Really?

[Tech_Skill]

Right.......

We know he has a WDC (World Diffuser Champion 2009), but what do you think? Can this boy really cut it as a threat to Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton? Good old Jense surprised me yesterday with some classy driving under some relentless pressure from Alonso but that was one race. Im not technical when it comes to formula one, but Jense comes across to me as a nice tidy driver who cant take a car to the limit and a bloke who just cannot ever accept that he could be the reason the car didnt make it to the position he expected.

Seriously, If he gets a good quali it's......

"The car just felt great today, the guys at the factory have been working really hard, thanks guys, your the best, take my wife, no! take my mother even"

The car then goes into parc fermme....

If Jenson messes up during the race (cos 'Smooth' driving doesnt work against Animals like Hamilton and Vettel who put the car on the ragged edge) his post race interview goes something like.....

"Something big has changed on the car since yesterday" (How Jenson, it was in parc fermme?)
"I dont know what it is and neither do the team" (Exactly Jenson, cos the car was in Parc Fermme)
" We'll have to take a long look over the break and find out what it is" ( Ermmm, Jenson we have had a look at the telemetry and you were a little too smooth during sector 2 and you lost about 0.3)

This whole "smooth" driving thing is getting outta control. I don't want smooth drivers in my car, I want a driver who can get the car nearest to the limit without making mistakes, if i wanted smooth, i'd hire Barry White.

Another thing, Jense seems to be one of them drivers that needs the best car to shine, without the best car, he looks HORRIBLE, aka that time at Honda when Rubens was getting more outta the car than him. Lets get real here, when Ross Brawn started Brawn GP, he didn't trust button with that car, even when he knew it might be a rocketship, so he had Fernando Alonso approached, thats shows you how much faith he had in Button.

Regarding the conclusion of this years championship, I think Jense needs to watch his tyres pressures in the next few races....... I saw Ron Dennis in the garage this weekend and that can only be bad news for Jense. The words DENNIS and SABOTAGE go together like Basil and Tomato. Lets put this into perspective....

Dennis loves sabotaging people and with him its instinctive, he see's the opportunity and he doesn't miss it. At this years British GP Dennis hadn't been in the Paddock long enough to steal someone's possessions or end someone's world title chances, so he make his way to the pit lane. He did an interview with BBC's Eddie Jordan, and then straight afterwards sneaks up on Jordan with a pair of scissors and cuts his mic wires so he Eddie cant be heard on the BBC broadcast.

To be fair, if there was ever a time where F1 needed some sabotage, that was it....

But that episode totally summed up Ron Dennis..... This man lives for ruining other people lives, its his passion. If Ron Dennis asks you to put the Kettle on for a cup of tea, you can be sure the Kettle will have the fuse taken out of it, or the plug missing. Then Ron will be telling you "look, everyone has the same kettle here, we are fair trust me, you have the Uncle Ron Guarantee of Fairness".

If I was Jense, I be VERY VERY careful, you ever seen that film enemy of the state Jense??? WATCH IT.... And Jense before you get in that Mclaren company car to go to work, check the brakes are actually working before you set off, cos your standing in the way in Ron Dennis's investment/lovechild and he aint interested in anyone else winning anything, in this world, and I mean anything..... The Mclaren pub quiz.... Dennis will give Lewis the answers, Lewis's junior spelling bee competition...Dennis will give lewis the answers, he doesn't care, LEWIS MUST WIN EVERYTTHING!!!

[Greig]

As much chance as Alonso really, had Vettel not wiped him out in Spa and his team not messed up in Monaco then probably more so, so yes he does have a chance

Not sure if you have just made up those quotes he is meant to say but they sound about familiar for about every driver really

Glad you never told Prost to get out the sport for being too smooth though

p.s he has never drove for Toyota

[Tech_Skill]

As much chance as Alonso really, had Vettel not wiped him out in Spa and his team not messed up in Monaco then probably more so, so yes he does have a chance

Not sure if you have just made up those quotes he is meant to say but they sound about familiar for about every driver really

Glad you never told Prost to get out the sport for being too smooth though

p.s he has never drove for Toyota

Heyyy, Judge Judy, thanks for the toyota tip, I go into this Anti Mclaren trance when posting and things get a little hazy.

Prost being smooth in my book is alright, seeing as he dont drive for Mclaren anymore, I might just be able to forgive him.

Im not so sure about Button's title chances when Dennis is lurking in the background setting traps everywhere, if Button gets another good result, that Mclaren garage is going to look like something out of the movie 'Saw'... traps and sabotage at every corner.

Dennis is coming into the prime of his career sabotage wise, check out his grin in this video just before he cuts Eddie Jordans mic wires, Dennis doesnt do this for the money, he's just a natural, good straightline speed coming in, smooth exit afterwards, it was textbook, you gotta hand it to him, he has really perfected his craft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG7vxjuxbWw

[Alonsomaniac]

Maybe Jenson is not a very spectacular driver and maybe he is not the fastest man out there, but he is fast enough to win and also quite reliable.
Remember the old saying: to finish first, you first have to finish.
Jenson got 20 points more than Lewis on Monza, because he was fast and finished. Lewis was faster maybe, but where did his spectacular driving take him?

Yes, Button has a chance. Maybe others have bigger chances, but if they make mistakes, he will be there. Don't count him out to soon.

[Greig]

Heyyy, Judge Judy

Best to stop the petty girly name calling already, just loses you a lot of credibility and is also not really good for the forums

Dennis has pretty much been around the garage all year even when Jenson was leading the standings, but maybe it was him that left the radiator block in at Monaco, you could be on to something for sure So your point is Jenson won't win because Ron will sabotage him?

[Tech_Skill]

Maybe Jenson is not a very spectacular driver and maybe he is not the fastest man out there, but he is fast enough to win and also quite reliable.
Remember the old saying: to finish first, you first have to finish.
Jenson got 20 points more than Lewis on Monza, because he was fast and finished. Lewis was faster maybe, but where did his spectacular driving take him?

Yes, Button has a chance. Maybe others have bigger chances, but if they make mistakes, he will be there. Don't count him out to soon.

Very sensible answer..... but there is just one thing your not taking into account.

[Rob]

Jense is in there wit a chance as much as Alonso and the other 3 drivers, now as it only 24 points covering the top 5, anything can happen. He isnt great to watch, but when he is on it, he is as good as anyone. He has 1 BIG weakness, he has to have a stable car, cannt have oversteer nor understeer. True great driver can adapt and drive around any problem. Yesterday he really did surprise me.

[Tech_Skill]

Very sensible answer..... but there is just one thing your not taking into account.

Ahh, I almost forgot this incident, starring..... this



and this....




'Certain people' are convinced Ron Dennis set this up in revenge after he felt there was a witchhunt after Mclaren by 'Others'



Never write Dennis off, when Jense is leading Lewis in Singapore and his tyres fall off about 1 lap from the end, dont say i didn't warn you.

Nah, on a serious note, of course Jense can win it, but lets be Real.... Dennis will NOT want him too and Dennis has a proven track record of making things ''accidentally'' happen when its crunch time in the Mclaren garage.

[Suzie]

Like others have said, I think Jenson has as good a chance as Fernando. He might not be as fast or gutsy as some of the other title protagonists but he's been through a title battle before and he's been very level-headed this year - he seems to use his head when he's in a GP, the tyre decision in China that won him the race being an example of that.
Obviously I don't want him to win it but I'm definitely not counting him out.

[Stormsearcher]

@techskill--- really funny posts. I quite enjoyed the bit about "uncle ron guarantee of fairness"...
Jokes aside, obviously Jenson can win it.. but only if the other 4 make massive mistakes. For me, Jenson is the Nicky Hayden of Formula 1. Boring, average, and will win by consistency rather than victories.

[killer]

Yup. A lot of people thought Lewis would wipe the floor with him but he's in the hunt and has shown that driving an intelligent and controlled race pays (e.g. Malaysia). What's Ron have to gain by messing with Jenson's chances?

[killer]

For me, Jenson is the Nicky Hayden of Formula 1. Boring, average, and will win by consistency rather than victories.

I don't know about average. Jenson is a world champion, surely that counts for something as there is only one? I mean if it was just the car, what set him apart from his team mate? (I'll probably regret this).

As to consistency, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, we want our champions to have won the most races but I also believe the champion must also prove he can deliver results on a regular basis... like they say: form is temporary, class is permanent. The sport is currently designed this way so when you look at it, why would it be bad to adapt to how best to win the darned thing?

[Rishu]

I mean if it was just the car, what set him apart from his team mate? \

His team mate then, has always been a loser. I think he won it just because he was at right place at the right time. Though i belive he is more clean driver than many & still has a chance at WDC........

[NJB13]

Yes, Jenson has a chance of winning. The fact I don't like him and some of things he's said and done in the past is irrelevant to his chances of winning.
IMO, on pure driving skill and speed he would be at the bottom of the 6 divers for the 3 teams in contention - Ferrari, RBR and McLaren. But, he is clever and makes good tactical calls - tyres and pit calls won him both his races this year and last week, choosing to run the F-Duct has also proven to be a good call.
He did win his WDC because he started the season in a car that, because of the DD debacle, was far ahead of anyone else. He also was the beneficiary of, dare I say it, Team Orders. Unfortunately for Jenson, Rubens was only too willing to let the world know.
Yes he can win, it's not likely and he'd need quite a few things to fall into place, but it's possible.

[bladeswing]

I don't know about average. Jenson is a world champion, surely that counts for something as there is only one? I mean if it was just the car, what set him apart from his team mate? (I'll probably regret this).

As to consistency, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, we want our champions to have won the most races but I also believe the champion must also prove he can deliver results on a regular basis... like they say: form is temporary, class is permanent. The sport is currently designed this way so when you look at it, why would it be bad to adapt to how best to win the darned thing?

+1

[Stormsearcher]

I don't know about average. Jenson is a world champion, surely that counts for something as there is only one? I mean if it was just the car, what set him apart from his team mate? (I'll probably regret this).

As to consistency, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, we want our champions to have won the most races but I also believe the champion must also prove he can deliver results on a regular basis... like they say: form is temporary, class is permanent. The sport is currently designed this way so when you look at it, why would it be bad to adapt to how best to win the darned thing?

Well.. Nicky Hayden was also champion, but was he the best rider that year? I dunno. Didnt seem like it.
Am not saying consistency is a bad thing, but if the only way someone is winning is by consistently coming in 2, 4, 3 etc., without really winning as many races as say second place man, then there is something wrong here. no?
Sure he won with Brawn last year, but more than half the grid would have won the championship in that car. Am not sure if Rubens was subject to team orders or not, but he has shown he can never win a WDC... much like DC did in his prime.

[Stormsearcher]

IMO, on pure driving skill and speed he would be at the bottom of the 6 divers for the 3 teams in contention - Ferrari, RBR and McLaren. .

That sort of sums it up. hmmm.. maybe sharing 5th spot with Webbo.

[Agron]

I don't know about average. Jenson is a world champion, surely that counts for something as there is only one? I mean if it was just the car, what set him apart from his team mate? (I'll probably regret this).

As to consistency, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Sure, we want our champions to have won the most races but I also believe the champion must also prove he can deliver results on a regular basis... like they say: form is temporary, class is permanent. The sport is currently designed this way so when you look at it, why would it be bad to adapt to how best to win the darned thing?

His teammate was a good, yet not one of the best top drivers even in his prime and was by then a bit past it. Even with this, it took Rubens to be unable to make his brakes or suspension work until the second half of the season for Button to beat him, once both were comfortable with the car, Rubens got 3 wins to Button's 0 and was able to consistently outqualify and outrace him. What if the car worked for Rubens, maybe he could have won 8 or 9 GPs or maybe we would have ended with the same result, but I think it would have been less favourable to Jenson ...

This year his two victories are up to seriously lucky tyre calls, he is being consistently outqualifyied and outpaced by his teammate and he is still in the championship run because this is the most accident-prone season in a long time.
In a normal season when Alonso is settled in the team and is back to his 100% consistency, Hamilton keeps driving with such high standards (except for Monza and well, thanks also to all the penalties that went unpunished) and Massa gets his tyres working for him, Kubica lands a good drive, etc. he may not look so good.

[aroutis]

I don't know about average. Jenson is a world champion, surely that counts for something as there is only one? I mean if it was just the car, what set him apart from his team mate? (I'll probably regret this).

Two words to you Sir.

Jacques Villeneuve.

Enough said.

(On a serious note, surely Jenson is better than Jaques, however the "he's a WDC" argument always has this reply as a counterargument. One needs to remember this. As for his chances ,I feel he has quite a few, however one needs to remember, McLaren IS and WILL BE Lewis' home, whether they say otherwise or not. And that is something I fear Jenson will find out the hard way soon enough).

[Ferrarichamp]

at this point my money would be on 3 drivers :

Alonso
Webber
Ramilton

[killer]

Well.. Nicky Hayden was also champion, but was he the best rider that year? I dunno. Didnt seem like it.
Am not saying consistency is a bad thing, but if the only way someone is winning is by consistently coming in 2, 4, 3 etc., without really winning as many races as say second place man, then there is something wrong here. no?

I suppose we can go all "don't hate the player, hate the game"? Regarding Nicky, hmmn... I see your point but believe it can be argued he was. Winning is at times a combination of a whole lot of things going the winner's way: be it machine superiority, consistency, the misfortune of others, etc. Still, it takes a bit more than being average (taking luck out of the equation for a moment) to 1) find yourself in a good team and 2) consistently get good results.

I'm far from being a Jenson fan but I think he's a good driver; at least one whose strengths outweigh his weaknesses.

[killer]

His teammate was a good, yet not one of the best top drivers even in his prime and was by then a bit past it. Even with this, it took Rubens to be unable to make his brakes or suspension work until the second half of the season for Button to beat him, once both were comfortable with the car, Rubens got 3 wins to Button's 0 and was able to consistently outqualify and outrace him. What if the car worked for Rubens, maybe he could have won 8 or 9 GPs or maybe we would have ended with the same result, but I think it would have been less favourable to Jenson ...

This year his two victories are up to seriously lucky tyre calls, he is being consistently outqualifyied and outpaced by his teammate and he is still in the championship run because this is the most accident-prone season in a long time.
In a normal season when Alonso is settled in the team and is back to his 100% consistency, Hamilton keeps driving with such high standards (except for Monza and well, thanks also to all the penalties that went unpunished) and Massa gets his tyres working for him, Kubica lands a good drive, etc. he may not look so good.

Points taken, Agron.

However, might I point out that whilst you said Jenson needs a lot to go his way for him to succeed;

• sub-par team mate
• sub-par team mate who can't make car work
• lucky tyre calls
• (inferred) weather
• bad luck for competitors

there were also quite a number of things required to render him mediocre;

• Alonso settles in with Ferrari
• Hamilton does well
• Massa comes good
• Kubica gets a good car
• etc.

Maybe this shows he's not THAT bad, no? Again, far from being an apologist for Jenson here--just saying he's maybe not as terribly lucky as people sometimes make him out to be.

[killer]

Two words to you Sir.

Jacques Villeneuve.

Enough said.

I'm afraid I've got nothing for that.

(On a serious note, surely Jenson is better than Jaques, however the "he's a WDC" argument always has this reply as a counterargument. One needs to remember this. As for his chances ,I feel he has quite a few, however one needs to remember, McLaren IS and WILL BE Lewis' home, whether they say otherwise or not. And that is something I fear Jenson will find out the hard way soon enough).

To be honest, mate, I can't see McLaren screwing Jenson over like that. Then again, this is McLaren we are talking about. But yeah, it's a bit tricky to discuss this point as it is conjecture... guess we'll have to see.

[Agron]

Maybe this shows he's not THAT bad, no? Again, far from being an apologist for Jenson here--just saying he's maybe not as terribly lucky as people sometimes make him out to be.

He is obviously very good, but IMO Massa is better than Button, for example, and this year because the tyres don't suit Massa he is taking quite a lot of criticism. He did better in 2008 than Button did in 2009, against tougher teammates, tougher opposition, and not so superior car.
But because Massa is struggling now and Button is the defending champion and is doing better in a better car THAT press and THOSE fans are comparing Button with Prost (becuase they also compare Hamilton with Senna) and saying that Felipe has lost it since his accident (when it's obvious he is as fast as ever when the soft tyres work for him, for example). Although I admit that the second part is mainly due to them being unwilling to praise Alonso for being faster than Felipe.

[Alonsomaniac]

Two words to you Sir.

Jacques Villeneuve.

Enough said.






(On a serious note, surely Jenson is better than Jaques, however the "he's a WDC" argument always has this reply as a counterargument. One needs to remember this. As for his chances ,I feel he has quite a few, however one needs to remember, McLaren IS and WILL BE Lewis' home, whether they say otherwise or not. And that is something I fear Jenson will find out the hard way soon enough).

Hmmm.....Jaques Villeneuve was not as bad as you think:

1994 - Indy 500 rookie of the year
1994 - CART Series rookie of the year
1995 - Indy 500 winner
1995 - Lou Marsh Trophy winner
1995 - CART Series Champion
1996 - Lorenzo Bandini Trophy winner
1997 - F1 WDC
1997 - Lou Marsh Trophy winner
1997 - Hawthorn memorial Trophy winner
1997 - Autosport International Racing Driver Award winner

Records:
1996 - Most wins in first F1 season (4) , since 2007 tied with Lewis Hamilton.

Villeneuve is also one of the only 3 people who ever won the Indy 500, the CART championship and the F1 championship. The other two are Mario Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi.
He is not a real superstar maybe, but certainly not a bad driver. And remember, his late father was one of the best Ferrari ever had........

[F1ferrarifanUSA]

Hmmm.....Jaques Villeneuve was not as bad as you think:

1994 - Indy 500 rookie of the year
1994 - CART Series rookie of the year
1995 - Indy 500 winner
1995 - Lou Marsh Trophy winner
1995 - CART Series Champion
1996 - Lorenzo Bandini Trophy winner
1997 - F1 WDC
1997 - Lou Marsh Trophy winner
1997 - Hawthorn memorial Trophy winner
1997 - Autosport International Racing Driver Award winner

Records:
1996 - Most wins in first F1 season (4) , since 2007 tied with Lewis Hamilton.

Villeneuve is also one of the only 3 people who ever won the Indy 500, the CART championship and the F1 championship. The other two are Mario Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi.
He is not a real superstar maybe, but certainly not a bad driver. And remember, his late father was one of the best Ferrari ever had........

Totally AGREED!!!! Gill is the best driver I have ever seen!

[Tifosi]

Yes, he has a chance - both mathematically and realistically. I can't work out if the point of this thread was to rubbish his abilities or to start some conspiracy that Ron Dennis is going to stop him winning the WDC if he was poised to do so.

Macca will no doubt do their hypocritical best to favour Lewis soon anyway unless Button closes the gap to the golden child in the next 2 races, which is looking unlikely despite Hami's best efforts to ***** his lead away. However, I found it strange that Button was warning that he'd quit if asked to support Lewis as this is almost certainly going to haunt him at some point and will make absolutely no difference to what Macca actually do in terms of favouring drivers either.

Most of your points about his driving seem to be that you don't like his driving style, not his performance.

Also, this seems more of a personal assumption than "getting real" to me

Lets get real here, when Ross Brawn started Brawn GP, he didn't trust button with that car, even when he knew it might be a rocketship, so he had Fernando Alonso approached, thats shows you how much faith he had in Button.

Button can win it but I don't think he's going to this year.

[aroutis]

Totally AGREED!!!! Gill is the best driver I have ever seen!

We're talking bout JACQUES, not GILLES, his father (!)

[aroutis]

Hmmm.....Jaques Villeneuve was not as bad as you think:

1994 - Indy 500 rookie of the year
1994 - CART Series rookie of the year
1995 - Indy 500 winner
1995 - Lou Marsh Trophy winner
1995 - CART Series Champion
1996 - Lorenzo Bandini Trophy winner
1997 - F1 WDC
1997 - Lou Marsh Trophy winner
1997 - Hawthorn memorial Trophy winner
1997 - Autosport International Racing Driver Award winner

Records:
1996 - Most wins in first F1 season (4) , since 2007 tied with Lewis Hamilton.

Villeneuve is also one of the only 3 people who ever won the Indy 500, the CART championship and the F1 championship. The other two are Mario Andretti and Emerson Fittipaldi.
He is not a real superstar maybe, but certainly not a bad driver. And remember, his late father was one of the best Ferrari ever had........

Be as it may, I am referring to his F1 achievements, which apart from a WDC it's been at the very least mediocre.

And we really don't want to go to the WDC itself as there've been comments from his former colleagues about how difficult he made it while having THE superior equipment, do we?