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Thread: Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Don't think it's for next year it was just to help Ferrari & Torro Rosso this year, no EBD next year.
    Ah, yes, that's what I thought.

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  2. #362
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    If I'm not mistaken they've built this rīthing in car in order to compare data, so we had so to say one half of the car with and another one without EBD...

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitter
    Rumor: In Maranello team have worked on a rear suspension 'push rod' in parallel with the pull-rod '
    Hope this isn't true - pull-rod is clearly the right way forward and Costa made a huge mistake this year by choosing the safe option, push-rod.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Lorca View Post
    Hope this isn't true - pull-rod is clearly the right way forward and Costa made a huge mistake this year by choosing the safe option, push-rod.
    From Truzonef1 on twitter

    I have had information of what you mention, but it stopped working in parallel in both. Now we just focus on Pull-Rod

  5. #365
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    I think I saw something similar to that exhaust in Barca?

    EDIT:

    maybe this is a developed version of this?
    Last edited by scuderiafan; 17th November 2011 at 18:07.


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  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Don't think it's for next year it was just to help Ferrari & Torro Rosso this year, no EBD next year.
    This is definitely for next year. With the banning of exotic engine modes and EBD's this will increase the periscope exhaust thrust over which ever part of the car they intend to blow (rear wing or beam wing) and thus increase downforce.

    I am actually quite impressed. They are thinking out of the box...

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    Words of what???We are the F1!!!Any Doubts???

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by luicchi View Post
    Please check earlier posts, as that is the third time someone has posted that link in this thread.

    But thanks anyway.

    The future is RED

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrari2183 View Post
    This is definitely for next year. With the banning of exotic engine modes and EBD's this will increase the periscope exhaust thrust over which ever part of the car they intend to blow (rear wing or beam wing) and thus increase downforce.

    I am actually quite impressed. They are thinking out of the box...
    Thin oval section tailpipes of modern blown exhausts are good for aerodynamics but probably are bad for engine performance. Ferrari uses this "expansion chamber" to add volume to their engine's eshaust tailpipe (altering pulse rates at the same time), trying to regain all the lost performace due to the blown exhaust concept.
    thanks to F1 technical poster

    It (expansion chamber) was used to recover power lost by the Ferrari engine by running the exhaust tailpipes flat (oval). Both Ferrari and Torro Rosso have been running it and it explains Torro Rosso's rise in performance. For next year oval tailpipes, or pipes with internal vanes and\or slash cut exits are barred. So it's not at all definite wether Ferrari will need this solution next year but it's not completely out the question.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  10. #370
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    I don't think the oval/flat exhaust pipes affect the engine in any way, it is rather the length of the exhaust pipe and more the fact that horse power needs to be sacrificed when running open throttle that affects the engine.

    This chamber can be used with periscope exhaust as well especially if Ferrari will be going for the longer exhaust pipes (as length will vary depending on positioning) next season within the regulations.

    This is actually the first I hear that the shape of the exhausts affect the engine power. I know that length does though.

  11. #371
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    I don't think the oval/flat exhaust pipes affect the engine in any way, it is rather the length of the exhaust pipe and more the fact that horse power needs to be sacrificed when running open throttle that affects the engine.

    This chamber can be used with periscope exhaust as well especially if Ferrari will be going for the longer exhaust pipes (as length will vary depending on positioning) next season within the regulations.

    This is actually the first I hear that the shape of the exhausts affect the engine power. I know that length does though.

  12. #372
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    Interesting but wouldn't the fact that there oval decrease the volume of the exhuast thus affecting engine performance being the whole reason why the expansion was added? Maybe it's just the Ferrari engine that suffers from this or maybe it doesn't at all as you say. I would hope that it helps them for next year in any case.

    And it actually says in the original article the volume of the exhaust (it's flat instead of periscope for better aero efficiency) affects the engine performance. So becuase the exhausts are indeed periscope for next year means they will have extra volume anyway.
    Last edited by TheProdigalSon; 17th November 2011 at 21:24.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  13. #373
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    Does anybody think we can now be less aggressive with 2012 car and gamble that losing ebd hurts us the least?

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaney1977 View Post
    Does anybody think we can now be less aggressive with 2012 car and gamble that losing ebd hurts us the least?
    No, too many times have taken the conservative route. We need to be as creative as possible if we want to be world beaters again.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaney1977 View Post
    Does anybody think we can now be less aggressive with 2012 car and gamble that losing ebd hurts us the least?
    Unfortunately we can't take that gamble because other teams will be looking at more aggressive solutions to try and recover the downforce lost from the EBD ban. We must do the same if we are to succeed next year.

    Welcome to the forum!

  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaney1977 View Post
    Does anybody think we can now be less aggressive with 2012 car and gamble that losing ebd hurts us the least?
    I doubt it. Just doesn't seem Ferrari-like.

    Welcome aboard!
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  17. #377
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    In what areas do we must improve most? Heat into tyres? Aero? I heard traction was not great, also how bad or good is the 150? I would reckon fernandos driving added at least 0.5 arcs, if wee get out the box fast next uyear then fernando will deliver!

  18. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaney1977 View Post
    Does anybody think we can now be less aggressive with 2012 car and gamble that losing ebd hurts us the least?
    If you look back to silverstone Ferrari won the race by a long margin but even with the EBD ban they still couldn't get pole or the front row(I can't remember whether the ban was applied to qualifying). However in the race the Ferrari won by a lead of 16 seconds which is massive. Most of the time gained was through the high speed turns and alot of time was lost in sector 3 where we have slow turns which require mechanical grip. So despite the EBD ban Red Bull were still somehow stronger in sector 3 which proves that all round they actually had a good car.
    I still think ferrari need to build an innovative car to be ahead of the pack next year, no more room for failings, it's all or nothing from now on.

  19. #379
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    Rumor: In Maranello team have worked on a rear suspension 'push rod' in parallel with the pull-rod '

  20. #380
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    The other teams have been using pull rod ever since double diffuser was banned, and are clearly happy with it. I think we're beating a dead horse at this point trying to make push rod work.

    Without double diffuser, the designers are trying to free up more space above the gear box instead of below it, hence the pull rod solution.

    And Scarb predicted it too
    For 2011 the DDD is banned, with revised wording in the technical regulations outlawing the openings beneath the car to allow air to flow into the upper diffuser deck. Thus again we will see teams consider the pull rod layout for better airflow to the rear wing.
    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/1...-aerodynamics/

  21. #381
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    i think the shape and size of the exhaust is related to engine's backpressure.. im still reading on it though..

  22. #382
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    the guy then tweeted that the pushrod didnt work, so they move on to pullrod.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  23. #383
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    Yes they have been working on pull-rod only for a long time now they ditched push-rod.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  24. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetur View Post
    i think the shape and size of the exhaust is related to engine's backpressure.. im still reading on it though..
    I have been reading on it too!

    Here's an interesting article from 2000 when we were using the periscope exhausts whilst Newey was still blowing the diffuser:

    http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00360.html

    It's quite technical and does explain the implications of longer/shorter pipes on the engine.

    Scarbs also has an excellent history of exhausts in F1:

    http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/0...cope-exhausts/

    It is interesting that we were the first to revert to periscope exhausts, and although we lost direct aerodynamic gains of blowing the diffuser, the car was more stable (back then there was no off throttle blowing) and we were able to have lower sidepods and tighter rear end with the shorter pipes. We enjoyed a huge amount of success with periscope exhausts. Hopefully Tombazis and Byrne can put their expertise to good use having managed to previously use the periscope exhausts so successfully.

    What's also interesting is that Newey was one of the last to revert to periscope exhausts, and this seems to be more because of the engine designers request. He seemed to lose a lot when he did change to periscope exhausts in 2002 (as far as i remember, the Mclaren was not particularly competitive), and it took him a few years before he produced a really competitive car again.

  25. #385
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    Ferrari has also proven a new brakes test, apparently with very good results despite being only a prototype Brembo

  26. #386
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    The new car sounds exciting, did Costa stifle creativity? Are the engineers off the shackles now? And will the blown diffuser ban affect us tohe least?

  27. #387
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    I think we will see a Ferrari team that has looked at and developed many different concepts and certainly go well beyond the "Safe" direction Aldo Costa chose during his time at Ferrari! Aldo Costa is no "Dummy" nor is he a bad Engineer. He was simply to cautious while he was in charge at Ferrari! His nature has always been cautious and careful. I know that Ferrari will EXPECT IMMEDIATE WINS and that is where the new design team of Engineers WILL excel! It is this BIG PUSH in exploring many different areas of the race car and the complete dynamics of the race car that will breed innovation!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  28. #388
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    Stefano Domenicali hopeful on 2012 exhaust

    "I cannot judge what he did in his time at Renault and McLaren but I have worked with World Champions Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen and Fernando is the one who impresses me the most," said Gene.

  29. #389
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    think we are going to stronger with the periscope exhaust layout than we have been with the current EBD. Honestly can not wait to see new car and see it in anger. Next March cannt come quick enough.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  30. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Next March cannt come quick enough.
    oh yes, it seems like it is 1 million light year away

    "I cannot judge what he did in his time at Renault and McLaren but I have worked with World Champions Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen and Fernando is the one who impresses me the most," said Gene.

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