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Thread: Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

  1. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan View Post
    LOL, you just answered your own question above
    by the time they realised may have been too late ?

  2. #1382
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazoz View Post
    Guys found a very interesting article on autosport forum about all our woes


    But make no mistake, they will solve it.
    How they will solve it,what we will reaplece instead of this or any solution we are working on?

  3. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by burak karakutuk View Post
    How they will solve it,what we will reaplece instead of this or any solution we are working on?
    maybe they have a solution just needs a little time Stay tuned

  4. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazoz View Post
    maybe they have a solution just needs a little time Stay tuned
    I hope so dear gazoz.Maybe they will have something similar to Mercedes hydraulic drive height system.I mean they may be redeployment it to the technical regulations

  5. #1385
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    It is said that we have to run a stiffer setup in order to decrease the pitch sensitiveness. Maybe we also have to run less rake than expected because the exhaust didn't work as expected. Nobody outside the team can know...

    My bet is that the minor updates for China will be hardly visible for us fans. But I would like to be wrong.

  6. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by burak karakutuk View Post
    I hope so dear gazoz.Maybe they will have something similar to Mercedes hydraulic drive height system.I mean they may be redeployment it to the technical regulations
    we can pray together

  7. #1387
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    If that article about the banning of reactive suspensions is true...then i can't be very optimistic. I mean, it says the whole car, even the nose, was designed taking into account reactive suspensions, so now we have a too pitch sensitive car. But i don't believe all the problems are because of this system. I mean, reactive suspensions can help in brake stability, but Ferrari is having problems on the exhausts, downforce, and traction out of slow corners that are not related to it. I mean, the banning has been bad for us, obviously, and maybe is one of the reasons, but not the main reason.

    Also, i would like to make a question, is it true this sytem had the FIA green light in Jan 2011 and was banned this Jan 2012?. If so, the FIA, once more, shows it's lack of professionalism.

  8. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazoz View Post
    Guys found a very interesting article on autosport forum about all our woes

    The long twitter above by @Paliyoes and retwitted by joseluis gives a fantastic explanation... fantastic in the sense that it offers an explanation for almost everything, it saves face for Ferrari and it may not have a lot to do with reality... Read it, it won't take you long..

    OK, I'll make a rough translation with the help of Bing.

    The real problem with the F2012, a problem Ferrari cannot openly admit, is the ban of reactive suspensions (Lotus style). Ferrari's were even more radical than the Lotus, as they inter-connected also the front and the rear wheels and the left and right sides. This explains why the car behaves well with heavy loads and why it ceases to be effective under light loads; such a system would allow to maintain a stable height, and even more important, would improve the balance under braking, in pure traction exits and in slow curves. As Ferrari was not allowed to put it on the car, the rest of the car suffers, as everything was designed for that device.

    The starting point of the exhaust system, pointing towards the wings of the rear brakes (that never had been so complex in a Ferrari car) would work with that device, but when the system was stripped from the car, all the original exhaust system did was to increase the instability that the device would have prevented. When it is said that there is a team in Maranello that is working on the initial exhaust solution, I think that what they are trying to do is develop such suspension device, but in a way that the FIA may not ban; meanwhile there is another team that is working on a new location for the exahusts (as the McLaren one, etc), and for that alternative location, it will be necessary to modify the sidepods and the engine cap, removing the "Acer Duct". If the first team is successful, the car will be a blast; if it is not, and the second alternative is used, the car may only be abreast of rivals, but not above them.

    The ban of reactive suspensions by the FIA has resulted in a bigger loss for Ferrari than for Renault or for any of the other teams in the championship. This explanation is twofold; on the one hand that of Ferrari went beyond, as it interconnected the front and the rear wheels and the left and right sides, while the Lotus Renault solution was limited to prevent the pitch (or change in pitch) under braking and acceleration.

    On the other hand the Ferrari is much more "pitch sensitive" than the Renault or any rivals who had plans to use such devices, because of its wide and very fine nose, that does not have an overhung, almost like a horizontal spoiler, different to any other nose used by the teams on the Championship, which are narrower, thicker and extending ahead of the pillars. The Ferrari is thereby subject to pressures from the nose, as when you get your hand out of the window of a car and put it horizontally: a little tilting is all it takes to displace it. When the Ferrari slows down, the nose tends to fall, and that gives more downforce in the front, but at the same time, it removes downforce from the rear and it, therefore, makes the car less stable under braking than the engineers had hoped when they designed it with the reactive suspension that initially the FIA did not declare illegal (which was why it was initially developed by several teams); later, coming out from a slow curve, the nose rises and reduces the downforce in the front, increasing it in the rear; that should be good for traction, but the traction lost at the front means that the improved traction may not be fully used, as the car would oversteer, forcing drivers to get out of slow corners with more restraint than necessary.

    The woes of Ferrari begun due to the absence of a device designed to improve the balance, and due to the flawed aerodynamics of the car, that were planned for being used with that device.

    But make no mistake, they will solve it.
    Ohhh, this is really interesting (and frustrating).
    Blame you, FIA!
    F2012 will be a blast! We'll make it!
    This season will be the "Rosso Corsa" season!
    Fernando is FAster than anyone.


  9. #1389
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    If that article is true, that would meant that Ferrari actually almost had a special innovation this season until the FIA decided to turn around and ban it last minute...

  10. #1390
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    I like the fact that they are already working on a new solution that would be within the rules. If they are smart enough to make this device, then they are smart enough to remake it to the rules.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  11. #1391
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    Seems Lotus coped with it being stripped from the car, so I have doubt about this. If the Ferrari system was so much better then why did they not fight the ban, makes no sense and why would they need to keep quiet about it?

    Forza Ferrari

  12. #1392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Seems Lotus coped with it being stripped from the car, so I have doubt about this. If the Ferrari system was so much better then why did they not fight the ban, makes no sense and why would they need to keep quiet about it?
    Maybe banning reactive suspension has something to do with downforce, oversteer & understeer but how about the straight line speed? All teams surely were aware of the unknowns about the reactive suspension, so i don't think Ferrari have done something without accurate information about the rules. Surely Ferrari is in right direction

  13. #1393
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    The only "movable device" permitted is DRS. All other devices are banned, especially "Ride Height" Devices!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  14. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Seems Lotus coped with it being stripped from the car, so I have doubt about this. If the Ferrari system was so much better then why did they not fight the ban, makes no sense and why would they need to keep quiet about it?
    Good point about the lack of protest. I guess it does say something that Ferrari did not further push the subject after Charlie Whiting declare it illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    The only "movable device" permitted is DRS. All other devices are banned, especially "Ride Height" Devices!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    And Merc's front wing duct apparently.

    Merc's F duct is a self working mechanism that is activated by the DRS, a user controllable mechanism that is permitted. But the reactive suspension is also a self working mechanism that is only triggered by braking, and braking is a user controllable mechanism that is permitted.

    Active suspension was banned because it alters the aero performance of the car. Merc's front wing duct alters the aero performance of the car as well.

    So its a mystery to me that despite its similarity, reactive suspension was banned but not the front wing duct.

    This whole moving parts that influence aero is very vague, and it seems like a magic rule that the FIA invoke whenever they want to ban something. Its a flexible rule that can be alter as we go along.

    It could have been used to ban Merc's front wing duct too if they wanted

  15. #1395
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    If the interlinked suspension story is true, i now understand why they went front and back pull rod.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

  16. #1396
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    http://www.f1today.net/en/news/merce...haust-solution

    Brawn's counter strike! This could throw a massive spanner in the works, with the exhausts.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  17. #1397
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    http://www.f1today.net/en/news/merce...haust-solution

    Brawn's counter strike! This could throw a massive spanner in the works, with the exhausts.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  18. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    http://www.f1today.net/en/news/merce...haust-solution

    Brawn's counter strike! This could throw a massive spanner in the works, with the exhausts.
    Interestingly McLaren have no complaint about Mercedes rear wing F-Duct, but Mercedes have complaint about McLaren & Red Bull exhaust.
    I think even if Red Bull & Lotus take back their complaint about Mercedes rear wing F-Duct, Mercedes won't take back their complaint about McLaren & Red Bull exhaust, because Mercedes are so sure about legality of their rear wing F-Duct. After all Ross Brawn knows what he is doing

  19. #1399
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    reactive suspensions, regulates ride height under braking to aid aerodynamic performance and stability.

    we copied lotus,and the fia told all teams two months ago its illegal.Lotus did try it.

  20. #1400
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    I remember Pat being asked about Sauber exhausts, and he said that it would be up to Charlie to decide .
    Maybe another reason why Ferrari are sporting a 'normal' solution right now, but that is just me guessing.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  21. #1401
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    Who said we copied Lotus??? We applied the same principle but we did not copy Lotus. Most of the time team have the same concept in mind but a variation of the same thought. This is the case. The Mercedes "F-Duct" is a tube that chases throught the chassis, through the Rear Wing and then back to the front again. It is reused to Influence the Aero Downforce of the race car.

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  22. #1402
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  23. #1403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alonsofan2002 View Post
    reactive suspensions, regulates ride height under braking to aid aerodynamic performance and stability.

    we copied lotus,and the fia told all teams two months ago its illegal.Lotus did try it.
    we never copied lotus our device was apparently more sophisticated and differed a lot to lotus

  24. #1404
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    @Crucial_Xtreme: Today in Maranello a F1 car was heard on the Fiorano circuit. The entire perimeter was covered with a black tarp so the track was no visible

  25. #1405
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    The article clearly states "Rumor" and does not state exactly what Ferrari have created and it certainly does not state that Ferrari is using a Lotus device. All teams work hard get the race car to have the optimum tire contact patch and maximum downforce. Camber, Dampening & Rebound Dampening aid in maximizing grip with the race track. Lotus had Active Suspension in the 70's as did Ferrari on there race cars so this is not a new development. If we are talking about the "Mass Dampener" Renault use many years ago, then that is different. "Mass Dampening" is much different from "Active Ride Height". We have to understand which type of device was being employed and not just speculate. We know the Pitch Sensitive issue the Ferrari F2012 is having seem to be leaning to toward the Active Suspension which is clearly banned but if they were able to vary the pitch geometry in a "Passive Progressive" manner without driver intervention. In the end all of these devices are not allowed and are not on the race cars. They have to find another means to have linear adjustment of the suspension to compensate for the non-desirable motion of the Suspension and the changing Aero load placed on the tire contact patch as the race car increases its speed and encounters lateral direction. Roll, Pitch and lateral motion play havoc with a race car trying to generate maximum tire patch contact.

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  26. #1406
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    The problems with Ferrari’s front pull-rod suspension according to experts.

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/03/2...od-suspension/

  27. #1407
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    i dont believe in rumors anymore specially if its coming from jose luis..

    i still believe that we have the most talented engineers the most talented drivers and the resources needed..

    lets just use them wisely and beat the hell out of everybody..

  28. #1408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad-Ferrari View Post
    The problems with Ferrari’s front pull-rod suspension according to experts.

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/03/2...od-suspension/
    Thanks for the article, great read But the front suspension alone cannot be causing the car to be behaving this bad. Aero is still the culprit.

    Year 2000: R.I.P Formula 1

  29. #1409
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    development of F2012

    I had seen msot of the car's losing inner side of the tyres........who can convert it outer side of the tyre.........they can be slightly upward of the tyre issue

  30. #1410
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    I read that they are going to put doors on the F2012...That should make it faster on the straights.

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