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Thread: Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

  1. #1891
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    This is a common misconception regarding the F2012, but it was getting the exhaust to the floor the same as McLaren & Sauber. People always say they were blowing the brake ducts, which is true at higher speed the same way McLaren & Sauber do. It's a slow speed corners where the exhaust gasses are going to the floor. The faster the car goes, the more the exhaust flow rises, and being that Ferrari's solution is closer to the rear tyres is why they were overheating. But the Ferrari launch exhaust was no different than the McLaren with what they were trying to achieve. Ferrari launch exhaust used Coanda Effect/Downwash effect just like McLaren & Sauber, they just did it in a different way.
    Which is the best? We don't know because Ferrari never got theirs working properly. I believe we will see a modified version of the launch exhaust in Mugello or Spain and we will not try to copy another teams design. But that's just my opinion.

    McLaren Exhaust: Slow speed- exhaust to floor Med-High speed- brake duct area

    Sauber Exhaust: Slow speed- exhaust to floor Med-High speed- brake duct area

    Ferrari Exhaust: Slow speed- exhaust to floor Med-High speed- brake duct area

    All 3 solutions use both the Coanda Effect and downwash over the sidepods to direct exhaust flow to the floor
    But how does the exhaust gas goes down to the floor at slow speed anyway. Any aero effect will diminish when the car slows down as the airflow slows down, so the exhaust gas is more likely to free flow and if anything, it will rise up due to its high temperature.

  2. #1892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    But how does the exhaust gas goes down to the floor at slow speed anyway. Any aero effect will diminish when the car slows down as the airflow slows down, so the exhaust gas is more likely to free flow and if anything, it will rise up due to its high temperature.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coanda_Effect


    Quote Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan View Post
    Any ideas why it's only 3 days as opposed to the traditional 4?
    It is because the amount of days is the same as last year but one session was moved further into the season.
    Las year there were Valencia 3 days, Jerez 4 days, Barcelona (2x) 4 days. That Valencia test was replaced by Mugello this year .
    Last edited by wacc; 25th April 2012 at 06:37.

  3. #1893
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    Um, so the gas is wrapping around the wheel?

    I still don't see how we can get the gas to seal the diffuser which it has to go in between the wheel and the diffuser

  4. #1894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Um, so the gas is wrapping around the wheel?

    I still don't see how we can get the gas to seal the diffuser which it has to go in between the wheel and the diffuser
    That isn't a wheel illustration... Read up on the coanda effect maybe you will get it then.
    Veni Vidi Vici e Vici Vici Vici.... Ferrari F2012 WDC WCC Champion

  5. #1895
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    No, not around a wheel. That circle in the above image is just graphic example. The gas at certain lower speeds remains attached to the rounded bodywork behind the outlet and it is pulled down to the floor.

  6. #1896
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    Well, lets do see what will have in may 1

  7. #1897
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarlboroFA View Post
    That isn't a wheel illustration... Read up on the coanda effect maybe you will get it then.
    Quote Originally Posted by wacc View Post
    No, not around a wheel. That circle in the above image is just graphic example. The gas at certain lower speeds remains attached to the rounded bodywork behind the outlet and it is pulled down to the floor.
    Hmmm... guess I can't see how we could direct the gas all the way down to the gap

    If anything it only help me understand downwash for Red Bull exhaust They are running it close to the surface all the way down to the gap between the diffuser and the wheel, hence the ramp

  8. #1898
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    Après un début difficile, malgré la victoire en Malaisie, Ferrari fera débuter au Mugello durant les derniers essais privés de l’année 2012 une nouvelle version de la F2012. Nommée « version B » par la plupart des observateurs, elle représente un changement de 40 à 50% par rapport à la machine qui a débuté la saison. Mais, les dernières rumeurs indiquent que toutes les évolutions ne seront pas disponibles pour les essais sur le circuit italien.
    Selon Autosprint, Ferrari aurait pris du retard dans le développement de certain composant qui seront essentiellement testé en simulation CFD voir soufflerie et non en piste pour validation. Une inquiétude car jusqu’à présent les derniers éléments ayant eu le même chemin de développement ont été des échecs.
    La F2012 « B » aura selon toute vraisemblance le même nez avant (qui fonctionne bien selon Alonso et Pat Fry), mais la partie centrale de la voiture aura un nouveau design. Des radiateurs différents, un nouveau profil d’extracteur, une distribution du poids différents et probablement une modification de la suspension arrière. Pas encore de trace d’échappement aérodynamique, ni de F-Duct.
    Le pari de Ferrari est important, car, selon les estimations de Maranello il faudra trouver environ 1,2 secondes pour dominer le plateau. D’ailleurs, Fernando Alonso, en marge du GP de Bahreïn n’avait pas usé de la langue de bois à ce sujet : « Même si nous trouvons 600 millièmes de mieux par rapport à la concurrence, ceux-ci sont en marche et il nous reste encore 400 millièmes pour être à leur niveau. Mais au moins, nous allons réduire l’écart. »

  9. #1899
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    Can someone translate this? My translate app doesn't work :(

  10. #1900
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    Translated:
    Ferrari to release B version of the current car
    Up to 50% of changes expected on the car
    Everything won't be tested in Mugello, some pieces will only be tested in the CFD tunnel because they will be late coming off the production line. This is a worry because until now the CFD hasn't been working as expected.
    Main changes will be in the centre of the car: new radiators, better weight distribution, new cooling exits and rear suspension but no F-Duct.
    The Ferrari camp predicts they must find 1.2 seconds in car performance to be ahead of the field, but they only anticipate an improvement of 6 tenths from these upgrades.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

  11. #1901
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    Thank

  12. #1902
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    After a rough start, despite the victory in Malaysia, Ferrari will start at Mugello during the final private test of 2012 a new version of the F2012. Named "Version B" by most observers, it represents a change from 40 to 50% on the machine that started the season. But the latest rumors indicate that all developments will not be available for testing at the Italian circuit.
    According Autosprint, Ferrari would have fallen behind in the development of some component that will be mainly tested in wind tunnel and CFD not see the track for validation. A concern because so far the last elements that took the same path of development have been failures.
    The F2012 "B" will in all likelihood the same nose before (which works well as Alonso and Pat Fry), but the central part of the car will have a new design. Different radiators, a new profile extractor, a different weight distribution and probably a modification of the rear suspension. Yet no trace of exhaust aerodynamics, or F-Duct.
    Ferrari's gamble is important because, according to estimates from Maranello have to be found about 1.2 seconds to dominate the board. Moreover, Fernando Alonso, alongside the Bahrain GP had not used the waffle about it: "Even if we find 600 thousandths better compared to the competition, these are on and it we still have to be 400 thousandths to their level. But at least we will close the gap. "

  13. #1903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Hmmm... guess I can't see how we could direct the gas all the way down to the gap

    If anything it only help me understand downwash for Red Bull exhaust They are running it close to the surface all the way down to the gap between the diffuser and the wheel, hence the ramp
    Think about McLaren. They don't have a ramp that leads down to the floor, yet their exhaust gasses reach the floor. Now below is a picture from Jerez. Note the circular extension on the exhaust pipe to utilize the Coanda Effect. The rest is done my the downward angle of the Acer Duct and the downwash from the exhaust. :)




  14. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
    After a rough start, despite the victory in Malaysia, Ferrari will start at Mugello during the final private test of 2012 a new version of the F2012. Named "Version B" by most observers, it represents a change from 40 to 50% on the machine that started the season. But the latest rumors indicate that all developments will not be available for testing at the Italian circuit.
    According Autosprint, Ferrari would have fallen behind in the development of some component that will be mainly tested in wind tunnel and CFD not see the track for validation. A concern because so far the last elements that took the same path of development have been failures.
    The F2012 "B" will in all likelihood the same nose before (which works well as Alonso and Pat Fry), but the central part of the car will have a new design. Different radiators, a new profile extractor, a different weight distribution and probably a modification of the rear suspension. Yet no trace of exhaust aerodynamics, or F-Duct.
    Ferrari's gamble is important because, according to estimates from Maranello have to be found about 1.2 seconds to dominate the board. Moreover, Fernando Alonso, alongside the Bahrain GP had not used the waffle about it: "Even if we find 600 thousandths better compared to the competition, these are on and it we still have to be 400 thousandths to their level. But at least we will close the gap. "
    Bah. More bad news if true. I wonder whats the hold up, why Ferrari can't get the new parts out and test them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    Think about McLaren. They don't have a ramp that leads down to the floor, yet their exhaust gasses reach the floor. Now below is a picture from Jerez. Note the circular extension on the exhaust pipe to utilize the Coanda Effect. The rest is done my the downward angle of the Acer Duct and the downwash from the exhaust. :)
    Ah, thanks man for the explaination. I see what you mean now. Almost forgotten about how angle the exhaust was when we first had it.

  15. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedmaster View Post
    After a rough start, despite the victory in Malaysia, Ferrari will start at Mugello during the final private test of 2012 a new version of the F2012. Named "Version B" by most observers, it represents a change from 40 to 50% on the machine that started the season. But the latest rumors indicate that all developments will not be available for testing at the Italian circuit.
    According Autosprint, Ferrari would have fallen behind in the development of some component that will be mainly tested in wind tunnel and CFD not see the track for validation. A concern because so far the last elements that took the same path of development have been failures.
    The F2012 "B" will in all likelihood the same nose before (which works well as Alonso and Pat Fry), but the central part of the car will have a new design. Different radiators, a new profile extractor, a different weight distribution and probably a modification of the rear suspension. Yet no trace of exhaust aerodynamics, or F-Duct.
    Ferrari's gamble is important because, according to estimates from Maranello have to be found about 1.2 seconds to dominate the board. Moreover, Fernando Alonso, alongside the Bahrain GP had not used the waffle about it: "Even if we find 600 thousandths better compared to the competition, these are on and it we still have to be 400 thousandths to their level. But at least we will close the gap. "

    Ferrari has denied any changes to suspension front or rear,radiators!

  16. #1906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan View Post
    Ferrari to release B version of the current car
    Up to 50% of changes expected on the car
    Everything won't be tested in Mugello, some pieces will only be tested in the CFD tunnel because they will be late coming off the production line. This is a worry because until now the CFD hasn't been working as expected.
    Main changes will be in the centre of the car: new radiators, better weight distribution, new cooling exits and rear suspension but no F-Duct.
    The Ferrari camp predicts they must find 1.2 seconds in car performance to be ahead of the field, but they only anticipate an improvement of 6 tenths from these upgrades.
    oh man, I hope Ferrari is being modest, if not then lets hope our rivals instead of improving will go few steps backwards.

  17. #1907
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogo View Post
    oh man, I hope Ferrari is being modest, if not then lets hope our rivals instead of improving will go few steps backwards.
    maybe it will work they are just talking it down just in case

  18. #1908
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    6tenths in race pace would be a great gain

    Forza Ferrari

  19. #1909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post



    Ah, thanks man for the explaination. I see what you mean now. Almost forgotten about how angle the exhaust was when we first had it.
    No worries, lots of people don't remember the first iteration because we've used so dang many. :( Let's just hope they get it right for Mugello & Spain which ever route they choose so we can have a good year & build upon some in-season development success and take the grid by storm in 2013. :))

    Seriously though, just hoping the changes put into place start to take effect soon. It's been far to long since we've won the WCC.

  20. #1910
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    0.6 tenths is the aim, even if it means our rivals improve by another 0.4, we'll still have gained 0.2. But in my opinion Ferrari have the most to gain from this, they have the most room for improvement and change.
    I hope the quoted 0.6 tenths is Ferrari's modest prediction of expected gains. As for the exhaust, I think Ferrari should start by improving the base of the car before moving onto that. Lotus doesn't have an exhaust like McLaren or Sauber yet they seem to be performing very well as seen in Bahrain.
    Get the fundamentals of the car up to scratch and then worry about the exhaust. I assume that is what Ferrari will be hoping to do in Mugello and might explain why some parts of the car will only be tested in Barcelona Friday practice.
    The F-Duct i expect to be introduced in Canada; a place where we always seem to receive a raft of updates.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

  21. #1911
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    If the gain will really be only 6 tenths, it's really bad. Others will improve as well (0.3 - 0.4 ?) So we will be in the +- same posititon as we are now. We need at least 1 second (which means 0.6s gain). And even than we will be little bit behind.

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  22. #1912
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    I may be wrong but please correct me..

    The improvements Ferrari might get
    The original exhaust -0.3s
    Front wing -0.1s
    Rear Wing -0.1s
    Floor -0.2s
    Modified Radiators -Unknown
    No Setup Compromises -0.2 s(Includes better straight line speed and rake).

    So we might see the ferrari improve by 0.7 to 1 sec..
    BUT I May Be Wrong...

    Any other info will be welcomed...

  23. #1913
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    Theres only so much the other teams can gain Ferrari has the most to gain by catching up...

  24. #1914
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    If we can make the car within .3 of the leader Fernando can win.

  25. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by anialonso View Post
    I may be wrong but please correct me..

    The improvements Ferrari might get
    The original exhaust -0.3s
    Front wing -0.1s
    Rear Wing -0.1s
    Floor -0.2s
    Modified Radiators -Unknown
    No Setup Compromises -0.2 s(Includes better straight line speed and rake).

    So we might see the ferrari improve by 0.7 to 1 sec..
    BUT I May Be Wrong...

    Any other info will be welcomed...
    If Ferrari knew the gains with that level of detail and accuracy, we would probably be leading the championship :P.

    I think the aim must be around 0.7-1 second. Every team, even the fast ones would be expecting to gain at least 0.3-0.4 of a second given its a TEST. Any thing less would be a waste since teams have gained more over race weekends.

  26. #1916
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    0.6 or 0.7-1 whatever is very big i think.Like some friends said we have more room to improve so we must gain more.And team says %50 of car will change but we wont bring all updates all parts to Mugello.I guess some other parts we are pushing hard to get ready.We may earn 0.1-0.2 extra tenths of a second.I am hasty and dont wait for Mugello test.Pray to God all of upgrades works Finally,some teams like Lotus didnt able to work their last updates and they are planning to bring major updates to Monaco.If i know correct we will have another major improvment in Canada and Silverstone

  27. #1917
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrari_Fanatic View Post
    Theres only so much the other teams can gain Ferrari has the most to gain by catching up...
    Exactly. The current leaders of the grid are almost at max potential. Yes they can bring upgrades, but they're not going to gain 0.4s in Mugello/Spain. There's just not that much time to be found. The leaders will probably gain 0.4-0.5s from now until the end of the season but they're not going to gain that much time in one jump any time soon. Lotus brought a new FW, RW, sidepods, Floor & slightly modified diffuser and only gained about 0.1s or a tenth and a half max. Jenson Button is even quoted as saying:

    "It(Ferrari F2012) has much room for improvement and we the best, we can not go much further because of the regulation of this year"


    There's just not lots of time to be found with the car with these regs. Most of the developments will most likely be fine tuning for certain tracks and getting on top of the tyres, which will give an advantage in and of itself. I'm not saying teams won't bring new updates, they will but they will be half a tenth here, 0.1s there.

    As for Ferrari, our car isn't at the basic level. The leaders were at the basic level in pre-season, and then brought updates. Remember Lotus's tenth or tenth and a half. So if Ferrari can improve the car to the basic car package it will take a fairly large chunk out of the gap to the leaders. Fernando can win with a car that's 0.3s behind the leaders. He's proven it time and again. Felipe hasn't shown this as of late, but I honestly think if we improve the car, Felipe will be competitive. Anyhow, we improve the car some in Mugello, bring the rest of the updates in Spain. If they work as the team expects, we finish the 3 step evolution off in Canada and we should be mighty close to the leaders.

    It's all up to Ferrari, but right now it's much much easier for Ferrari to close the gap to the leaders than it is for the leaders to gain more time on Ferrari.

  28. #1918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    Exactly. The current leaders of the grid are almost at max potential. Yes they can bring upgrades, but they're not going to gain 0.4s in Mugello/Spain. There's just not that much time to be found. The leaders will probably gain 0.4-0.5s from now until the end of the season but they're not going to gain that much time in one jump any time soon. Lotus brought a new FW, RW, sidepods, Floor & slightly modified diffuser and only gained about 0.1s or a tenth and a half max. Jenson Button is even quoted as saying:

    "It(Ferrari F2012) has much room for improvement and we the best, we can not go much further because of the regulation of this year"


    There's just not lots of time to be found with the car with these regs. Most of the developments will most likely be fine tuning for certain tracks and getting on top of the tyres, which will give an advantage in and of itself. I'm not saying teams won't bring new updates, they will but they will be half a tenth here, 0.1s there.

    As for Ferrari, our car isn't at the basic level. The leaders were at the basic level in pre-season, and then brought updates. Remember Lotus's tenth or tenth and a half. So if Ferrari can improve the car to the basic car package it will take a fairly large chunk out of the gap to the leaders. Fernando can win with a car that's 0.3s behind the leaders. He's proven it time and again. Felipe hasn't shown this as of late, but I honestly think if we improve the car, Felipe will be competitive. Anyhow, we improve the car some in Mugello, bring the rest of the updates in Spain. If they work as the team expects, we finish the 3 step evolution off in Canada and we should be mighty close to the leaders.

    It's all up to Ferrari, but right now it's much much easier for Ferrari to close the gap to the leaders than it is for the leaders to gain more time on Ferrari.

    Ferrari also have ALONSO!!!

  29. #1919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hombre B View Post
    Test Mugello:

    Day 1.: Alonso
    Day 2.: Massa
    Day 3.: Alonso



    http://www.ferrari.com/Italian/Formu...l-mugello.aspx
    Ah what a waste of a day should be Alonso for day 2 as well.

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    Forza Ferrari

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