Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[Hornet]

Wait, so Red Bull DDRS blows at somewhere near the diffuser and not the front wing?

Anyone knows if this will be legal next year? Mercedes front wing DRS will be illegal.

[Rob]

Wait, so Red Bull DDRS blows at somewhere near the diffuser and not the front wing?

Anyone knows if this will be legal next year? Mercedes front wing DRS will be illegal.

No i dont think it blows near diffuser, think it was the beam wing......oh just found this on http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../878/1012.html

While Lotus and Mercedes have been experimenting for some time with passive 'double-DRS' devices, which have proved difficult in terms of set up, Red Bull have devised a very clever and easy system for the RB8. Believed to have been introduced in Singapore, but only discovered this weekend in Suzuka, Adrian Newey's new solution is activated by the movement of the flap when the DRS system is operated and has been spotted thanks to the bigger surface of bodywork used to fix the flap. When the hole (see yellow highlighted area) opens, the air flows through the endplate to the beam wing, where it blows onto the central 12-cm section of the diffuser, which is free of aero limitations. The new device is believed to have helped the RB8 to register the fastest top speed in qualifying.

[Rob]

In Japan Fernando Alonso evaluated two different rear wings. The one he tested and then discarded in Singapore and a completely new one. The two solutions differ primarily in the shape of the vertical gills at the bottom of the endplate (see main picture and inset). The endplate's top section is also different. The horizontal gills are no longer straight but are slightly stepped between the main plane and the flap's leading edge. Both Alonso and team mate Felipe Massa used a third solution, based on the one raced in Singapore, in qualifying and the race at Suzuka.


http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../878/1011.html

[Nova]

No i dont think it blows near diffuser, think it was the beam wing......oh just found this on http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../878/1012.html

While Lotus and Mercedes have been experimenting for some time with passive 'double-DRS' devices, which have proved difficult in terms of set up, Red Bull have devised a very clever and easy system for the RB8. Believed to have been introduced in Singapore, but only discovered this weekend in Suzuka, Adrian Newey's new solution is activated by the movement of the flap when the DRS system is operated and has been spotted thanks to the bigger surface of bodywork used to fix the flap. When the hole (see yellow highlighted area) opens, the air flows through the endplate to the beam wing, where it blows onto the central 12-cm section of the diffuser, which is free of aero limitations. The new device is believed to have helped the RB8 to register the fastest top speed in qualifying.

Amazing..mabey thats why the mechanics were all standing around the rear of the car b4 the start of the race. Whatever they found, it works. Thx Rob.

[Kiwi Nick]

Ridiculously clever and simple...Newey!

[LightAmaterasu]

http://www.formula1.com/news/technic.../878/1012.html

Red Bull came up with their clever DDRS system.Any news about if Ferrari will prepare it or not?It may help us a lot especially in qualify.I know it is a complicated system but championship is now under danger.Newey this time copied another idea and took them front of us.Also there is an Italian article on the net which Alonso says India will be a breaktroguh.They are expecting a big update according to this article.And for Korean Gp a improved drs

Could you please share the link of this italian article ? would like to give it a read. Thanks :)

[burak karakutuk]

Attachment 4971
here it is :)

[LightAmaterasu]

Attachment 4971
here it is :)

Thanks loads

[anialonso]

Attachment 4971
here it is :)

could you translate it please..

[Grillo]

Hearing Marc Gené on the Spanish TV I don't think there will be many new parts for the car in Korea but I'm asking anyway.

Any news already on the matter?

[SoumyaBanerjee]

I dont think there's any time for new parts to be introduced for Korea. But overall,i was happy with our pace. We certainly did make up a lot of ground on the Maccas atleast. True,Suzuka is more of a ferrari-friendly circuit than singapore,but all the same,the macca has been very quick on almost all circuits...

[burak karakutuk]

makes the comparison with Felipe Massa, Fernando Alonso, to try to explain clearly the current situation: IImio companion and entered 5 times in Q3 of 15 races, we are a second who does the pole, but we drive the championship. But I understand that people will ask how everything is possible. So, in a time when Ferrari began to falter under the blows that come from Red Bull and McLaren, who led the resistance of the red fort got him, Fernando. I do not care because I know no-five years that is so and I have always fought for the World Cup in 2010 we were still far more than the Redbull dominated, but we got to play it allultima race in Abu Dhabi says with a smile""Which way? How true, but is a reaction and the wind tunnel once again come under the spotlight, it would be nice to understand what and what will be the reaction of the red. II Ours is not a unique problem looking for a Spanish defense, 31 years. In the other teams do not work all the news, only in Italy, everything we do is written, fotografta, designed. And the whole world knows. With the structure of Maranello in the coming months but will be subject to an extensive program of renovation to make the car 2013 Ferrari utillizzera the Cologne former Toyota, currently rented and part-time also by Mclaren. Meanwhile c and try to win a World Cup. We will improve the machhina certainly promises Alonso have good plans and sooner or later we will have a competitive approach pious.""The news does not say more, even though the British TV reveals that for the GP in India, there will be a large package of news. Until that time you will have to rely on his foot: Drive to the limit of the machine, push more than you think possible, you believe without knowing what will be the result, finding limits unknown, unfortunately, in quotation marks, we used to run in an extreme way."

[Hornet]

makes the comparison with Felipe Massa, Fernando Alonso, to try to explain clearly the current situation: IImio companion and entered 5 times in Q3 of 15 races, we are a second who does the pole, but we drive the championship. But I understand that people will ask how everything is possible. So, in a time when Ferrari began to falter under the blows that come from Red Bull and McLaren, who led the resistance of the red fort got him, Fernando. I do not care because I know no-five years that is so and I have always fought for the World Cup in 2010 we were still far more than the Redbull dominated, but we got to play it allultima race in Abu Dhabi says with a smile""Which way? How true, but is a reaction and the wind tunnel once again come under the spotlight, it would be nice to understand what and what will be the reaction of the red. II Ours is not a unique problem looking for a Spanish defense, 31 years. In the other teams do not work all the news, only in Italy, everything we do is written, fotografta, designed. And the whole world knows. With the structure of Maranello in the coming months but will be subject to an extensive program of renovation to make the car 2013 Ferrari utillizzera the Cologne former Toyota, currently rented and part-time also by Mclaren. Meanwhile c and try to win a World Cup. We will improve the machhina certainly promises Alonso have good plans and sooner or later we will have a competitive approach pious.""The news does not say more, even though the British TV reveals that for the GP in India, there will be a large package of news. Until that time you will have to rely on his foot: Drive to the limit of the machine, push more than you think possible, you believe without knowing what will be the result, finding limits unknown, unfortunately, in quotation marks, we used to run in an extreme way."

Thanks friend. If I understood it correctly, the F2013 program will be using Toyota's wind tunnel which McLaren is also using.

I think that's a great idea, after what happened with F2012 suffering from co-relation problem that the team mentioned many times now, its good to use something that is proven.

[burak karakutuk]

Thanks friend. If I understood it correctly, the F2013 program will be using Toyota's wind tunnel which McLaren is also using.

I think that's a great idea, after what happened with F2012 suffering from co-relation problem that the team mentioned many times now, its good to use something that is proven.

No problem friend my pleasure.Yeah it's a smart move because Toyota's windtunnel is the best so we may expect a strong car in 2013

[anialonso]

Ferrari need to introduce their new DDRS to help them in quali cause our race pace seems very good..
Hoping to see a big upgrade in INDIA...

[medeni73]

<Rumours ON>
Emergency meeting in Maranello, Fry and Domenicalli flew back to Italy to discuss further development steps...
Big Update scheduled for India...
DDRS could be already inrtroduced in Korea...
<Rumours OFF>

[Hornet]

We'll have to wait and see if Ferrari brings their own DDRS. Red Bull's DDRS appears to be very simple where it just release the air below the rear wing plane, according to a picture retwitted by Scarbs. It helps stall the rear wing even more, and very simple to implement.

But AFAIK, all DDRS will be banned next year, because the rule is worded in such a way that the DRS cannot be used to alter any duct.

[FerrariF60]

We'll have to wait and see if Ferrari brings their own DDRS. Red Bull's DDRS appears to be very simple where it just release the air below the rear wing plane, according to a picture retwitted by Scarbs. It helps stall the rear wing even more, and very simple to implement.

But AFAIK, all DDRS will be banned next year, because the rule is worded in such a way that the DRS cannot be used to alter any duct.

You know, I know, red bull knows, ferrari knows as well as ALL other teams know that DDRS will be banned next year; but it seems to be a cheap thing to implement in order to boost quali performance (something Ferrari need really bad).

so what if it gets banned next season, WE NEED THAT LITTLE SOMETHING to put us back in leading the championship EVEN more...these 4 point difference is NOTHING if Ferrari do NOTHING to imrover their car...

so personnally now think that Ferrari will be working around the clock on ALL FRONTS to bring a little more speed to this MULE we have, coming from either DDRS or something else...but i think we'll see DDRS if not in Korea ( there maybe just test a rough version just to get their "feet" wet if you know what i mean), and then a race ready on in India...

WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING....this is now our championship to lose...and i don't think Luca D will be happy until we WIN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hornet]

Yeah, I agree that if Scarbs is right, then Red Bull's DDRS is very easy to implement, anyone can do it with a little duct in the rear wing. And its worth it just for this year alone since its not complex at all.

And this time Red Bull wins again in the creative department. Everyone has been thinking the Merc DDRS is so complex, Lotus try their own DDRS which hasn't work yet. Here Red Bull comes up with such a simple solution.

[anialonso]

<Rumours ON>
Emergency meeting in Maranello, Fry and Domenicalli flew back to Italy to discuss further development steps...
Big Update scheduled for India...
DDRS could be already inrtroduced in Korea...
<Rumours OFF>

In the paper it said Ferrari will introduce an improved DRS for Korea but if they bring the DDRS it will help a lot in our weakest point i.e Quali

[anialonso]

Domenicali bullish over Ferrari development

Stefano Domenicali has confidence in Ferrari's development programme despite Fernando Alonso's dwindling lead in the championship.

Alonso retired from the Japanese Grand Prix as Sebastian Vettel went on to take a dominant victory for Red Bull to reduce the gap at the top of the standings to just four points. Felipe Massa was second for Ferrari but over 20 seconds behind Vettel, and it has now been six races since the team was able to mount a serious challenge for victory when Alonso won the German Grand Prix.

Asked if Ferrari is losing out to its rivals in the development race, Domenicali said: "I don't know.

"We need to stay very rational because, for example, we saw McLaren had an unbelievable pace in Singapore and everyone was saying 'Oh, they are flying' and this weekend obviously we didn't see that kind of situation. We saw this weekend for sure that Red Bull was impressive, so we need to see what we can do in order to match their development or if this track was better for them. I don't know, but for sure we need to know that the others are pushing a lot and we need to make sure we are keeping the same kind of pressure - positive pressure - on our engineers to make sure that we deliver the development."

Domenicali also denied that the car hadn't been updated recently, and said it was quick enough in race trim if only the team could improve its one lap pace.

"When I hear sometimes that we are not developing the car for many grands prix, it is not true. The reality is that the level of competition is very high and we need to improve the qualifying pace for sure because that's not really the level that we should be. During the race you've seen in normal conditions it's a different story, but unfortunately when you start behind anything can happen and unfortunately that has happened with Fernando in Belgium and here; even though it's two different situations because [in qualifying] we were unfortunately in that position because of something that wasn't possible to control."

When asked if there was a big upgrade planned for any of the upcoming races, Domenicali said the priority would be ensuring each new part delivered performance on all remaining circuits, having previously expressed worries over its wind tunnel correlation.

"It depends what is a 'big step' for you; for sure we'll try to bring 'steps'. The reality of it will be seen on the track, but for sure the target is that every race there has to be something new that will have to be incorporated on the fact that we have to improve the performance on every track, which is different from race to race as we have seen up until now."

[anialonso]

Hearing Marc Gené on the Spanish TV I don't think there will be many new parts for the car in Korea but I'm asking anyway.

Any news already on the matter?

What did Gene say about the updates for Korea???

[F2002]

Domenicali bullish over Ferrari development

Stefano Domenicali has confidence in Ferrari's development programme despite Fernando Alonso's dwindling lead in the championship.

Alonso retired from the Japanese Grand Prix as Sebastian Vettel went on to take a dominant victory for Red Bull to reduce the gap at the top of the standings to just four points. Felipe Massa was second for Ferrari but over 20 seconds behind Vettel, and it has now been six races since the team was able to mount a serious challenge for victory when Alonso won the German Grand Prix.

Asked if Ferrari is losing out to its rivals in the development race, Domenicali said: "I don't know.

"We need to stay very rational because, for example, we saw McLaren had an unbelievable pace in Singapore and everyone was saying 'Oh, they are flying' and this weekend obviously we didn't see that kind of situation. We saw this weekend for sure that Red Bull was impressive, so we need to see what we can do in order to match their development or if this track was better for them. I don't know, but for sure we need to know that the others are pushing a lot and we need to make sure we are keeping the same kind of pressure - positive pressure - on our engineers to make sure that we deliver the development."

Domenicali also denied that the car hadn't been updated recently, and said it was quick enough in race trim if only the team could improve its one lap pace.

"When I hear sometimes that we are not developing the car for many grands prix, it is not true. The reality is that the level of competition is very high and we need to improve the qualifying pace for sure because that's not really the level that we should be. During the race you've seen in normal conditions it's a different story, but unfortunately when you start behind anything can happen and unfortunately that has happened with Fernando in Belgium and here; even though it's two different situations because [in qualifying] we were unfortunately in that position because of something that wasn't possible to control."

When asked if there was a big upgrade planned for any of the upcoming races, Domenicali said the priority would be ensuring each new part delivered performance on all remaining circuits, having previously expressed worries over its wind tunnel correlation.

"It depends what is a 'big step' for you; for sure we'll try to bring 'steps'. The reality of it will be seen on the track, but for sure the target is that every race there has to be something new that will have to be incorporated on the fact that we have to improve the performance on every track, which is different from race to race as we have seen up until now."

It's actually a bit distressing to read "I don't know.." twice.

If he doesn't know, then who does?

Frankly, I don't think that he is bullish about the development, as the title suggests. He is just hoping that, as much as Mclaren has seemingly lost its dominance from the previous 3-4 GPs, the same will happen to Red Bull sooner rather than later.

Also, when he says that he is hearing "sometimes that we are not developing the car", well it was FA himself who said that, at least to the Italian media after yesterday's race, when he said something on the lines of this is the same car I've had for the last five GPs.

[Hornet]

The truth is even Martin Whitmarsh said that hopefully this race will be one that stands out for the Red Bull.

Vettel was dominating in Valencia too, but they were still beatable by McLaren in other races so we have to wait and see, but there is still a chance Red Bull may not be as dominating as 2011 esque that we all fear right now.

Only problem is Ferrari need to get in the mix between RB and McLaren, especially in qualifying.

[eddie]

Can anyone confirm if we will have a big package for Korea or small updates? Just a few days away from testing.

Hope we can turn things around...

[giodap]

Can anyone confirm if we will have a big package for Korea or small updates? Just a few days away from testing.

Hope we can turn things around...

it does'nt matter if anyone says we have an update or not. know one really knows. we have been told of apparent updates by various people for about 5 races now and nothing has come of it. lets just pray that when that light turns green for friday first practice, ferrari turn up with a caged beast that makes adrian newey's bottom lip quiver! FORZA FERRARI!!!!!

[Nova]

Just ran into this...There are pix floating round..looks like they r going all out..

Red Bull introduced a considerable number of changes on its car at Singapore, including a new front wing, diffuser and DDRS. Perhaps of a little less importance, but still interesting is their new nose cone. Just like Williams did, the new nose has a slight bulge below the nose, in the middle of the nose but just behind the front wing pillars. Overall the tip of the nose on the Red Bull is also slightly lower, resulting in more airflow over the nose and less under it.

Such change is remarkable, especially because the currently nearly maximum-height noses of current F1 cars are all focused to get as much air as possible under the nose and towards the floor. It is of course part of Red Bull's changes to improve the balance of the RB8. Adrian Newey mentioned before the Japanese GP that "the team have been focusing mainly on restoring the car's balance after losing the effect of the exhaust blown diffusers that we had for the past two years"

[REDARMYSOJA]

Has Ferrari started using Toyota's windtunnel in Colonge yet?

[Grillo]

There's nothing I'd love more than Domenicali is right this time but I don't think Ferrari's technical department, specially aerodynamics, is as powerful as Red Bull's. I don't think it's just Newey, RBR have been working on that area with more success than any other team for the last 3 or 4 years. Wind tunnel, CFD, simulator... They excell on the so called "new" F1.

Do I think they comply with the budget restriction? No. Matestitsch is in F1 for fun, passion and business. But fun and passion first. Money is not a problem, he's like Abbramovich, PSG or City sheikh.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

There's nothing I'd love more than Domenicali is right this time but I don't think Ferrari's technical department, specially aerodynamics, is as powerful as Red Bull's. I don't think it's just Newey, RBR have been working on that area with more success than any other team for the last 3 or 4 years. Wind tunnel, CFD, simulator... They excell on the so called "new" F1.

Do I think they comply with the budget restriction? No. Matestitsch is in F1 for fun, passion and business. But fun and passion first. Money is not a problem, he's like Abbramovich, PSG or City sheikh.

Yup and now wonder that they weren't invited to the last fota meeting, whereas Ferrari and Sauber were.