Thread: Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

  1. #721
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    692
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan View Post
    Yup, i reckon we should conceal our 'crazy' parts until the last test so that other competitors don't steal them before the first race. Though i think Ferrari will use an incremental approach and introduce parts one by one.
    Yeh, i remember Red Bull did that in 2010 to hide the EBD. They put fake exhausts coming out of the engine cover!

  2. #722
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Maributo Key
    Posts
    5,988
    Mabey the reason Mac let go of so many people is that they have better...

  3. #723
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,015
    Just like them getting rid of Newey becuase they had better
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  4. #724
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Maributo Key
    Posts
    5,988
    Well, at the time, werent the Macs not so good? Designers do burn out...and without a few of his trick parts in place, the RB was equal to Ferrari at British GP.

  5. #725
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,015
    You've actually argued my point for me, thanks. We had to ban the most significant part of there car just to be equal to them. Says it all about the man really.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  6. #726
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Budapest
    Posts
    297
    Ferrari twitter

    "In just one month engines of the new F1 cars will be on: the first testing session is scheduled in Jerez from 7 to 10 February.

    Everyone is working flat out here in Maranello to be prepared for the debut of the new singleseater."

  7. #727
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    9,846
    Actually there's a flip side to Newey.

    Blown diffuser concept was nothing new, Newey was already the most experienced designer with that concept as he stubbornly worked on it while he was at McLaren and was the last to gave up only when the engine supplier demanded that they change to the shorter periscope exhaust.

    The thing is, since then, Newey hasn't been able to find anything new to build a dominating car like the 2011 Red Bull. He only struck gold when the FIA decided to significantly reduce the diffuser's size and even then, it wasn't Newey who thought about the double diffuser concept. Only when the FIA banned that too, that the diffuser is finally reduced, and that bought back the opportunity for Newey to retry his old trick with the blown diffuser concept as we shift focus back to using exhaust gas to increase the efficiency of the diffuser.

  8. #728
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,015
    If you remember correctly their 2009 car was the fastest non DDD car. Even without the DDD they were winning races. I can't believe I'm even having this argument, Newey is clearly a brilliant engineer and it wouldn't surprise me if all the people downplaying him as a mediocre engineer will be jumping for joy if he signs for Ferrari. If he's not that good why did Ferrari try extremely hard to get him a year ago?
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  9. #729
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    9,846
    Of course, the blown diffuser was Newey's solution to the reduced diffuser. Although it's no where as effective as double diffuser, its still better than nothing.

    Yes, Newey is a brilliant designer, but he's not the god of all designer many made him out to be. If he was, we would have seen more success from him even before Red Bull.

    The fact that Newey didn't even thought of the double diffuser shows that he's just like any other designer coming out with new ideas, sometimes you're lucky you score the right one, other times it doesn't work out.

  10. #730
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    4,931
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Of course, the blown diffuser was Newey's solution to the reduced diffuser. Although it's no where as effective as double diffuser, its still better than nothing.

    Yes, Newey is a brilliant designer, but he's not the god of all designer many made him out to be. If he was, we would have seen more success from him even before Red Bull.

    The fact that Newey didn't even thought of the double diffuser shows that he's just like any other designer coming out with new ideas, sometimes you're lucky you score the right one, other times it doesn't work out.
    exactly. i hear many Mac and Bull fans and neutrals giving up on the season and saying redbull will dominate and kill everyone, just because of newey. they obviously dont have much faith in Mac or Ferrari, and they have consistently proved people wrong with their comebacks. Newey is beatable, and it could happen next year.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  11. #731
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,015
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Of course, the blown diffuser was Newey's solution to the reduced diffuser. Although it's no where as effective as double diffuser, its still better than nothing.

    Yes, Newey is a brilliant designer, but he's not the god of all designer many made him out to be. If he was, we would have seen more success from him even before Red Bull.

    The fact that Newey didn't even thought of the double diffuser shows that he's just like any other designer coming out with new ideas, sometimes you're lucky you score the right one, other times it doesn't work out.
    Wow just becuase he didn't think of one idea doesn't mean he isn't good, I haven't said he's a God or unbeatable just giving him the recognition he deserves. No success before Redbull? Are you sure? If he is just like any other engineer name some engineers who have this success rate?

    Adrian Newey OBE (born 26 December 1958) is a British Formula One engineer. He is the only designer to have won Constructors Championships with three different Formula One teams. He is currently the chief technical officer of the Red Bull Racing Formula One team, having designed their championship-winning Red Bull RB6 and RB7.

    Newey has worked in both Formula One and IndyCar racing as a race engineer, aerodynamicist, designer and technical director and enjoyed success in both categories. Considered one of the best engineers in Formula One, Newey-inspired designs have won numerous titles and over 80 Grands Prix, dominating much of the 1990s and early-2010s. After designing championship winning Formula One cars for Williams F1 and McLaren, Newey moved to Red Bull Racing in 2006, winning the Formula One drivers and the constructors championship in 2010 and 2011.[1]
    Last edited by TheProdigalSon; 7th January 2012 at 11:31.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  12. #732
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Maributo Key
    Posts
    5,988
    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    You've actually argued my point for me, thanks. We had to ban the most significant part of there car just to be equal to them. Says it all about the man really.
    Im not arguing w/anyone...Newey had a few great ideas but he's beatable, n Id rather have Byrne. Every year someone is going to exploit a loophole or find
    that certain something that gives them that small edge.

    N I need not give him recognition...He doesnt work for Ferrari.

  13. #733
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    9,846
    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Wow just becuase he didn't think of one idea doesn't mean he isn't good, I haven't said he's a God or unbeatable just giving him the recognition he deserves. No success before Redbull? Are you sure? If he is just like any other engineer name some engineers who have this success rate?
    Yes, he have some good records but he's not the only one. I never said he's mediocre, you're putting words in my mouth. I've said his brilliant, but he's not the only one, he's not in a league of his own. There are other designer as good or better than him.

    As I've mentioned, where is his success after he couldn't work on the blown diffuser? What happened between then and the Red Bull now, which he basically fell back to an idea he knew well?

    The problem is with his success now, everyone suddenly think he's such a great designer ahead of everyone else when essentially we're not seeing anything new. What made the Red Bull's car so fast this season is an old idea he's done before. He got lucky because the rule changes brought the focus back into an area he's good at.

    Brawn's success with the double diffuser shows that other designer can come up with great ideas too, and ideas no one else would have thought about.

    Newey is great but not special.

  14. #734
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,608
    I'm really hoping that we get a bit of Rory v Newey over the course of the year, although Rory is more the type of guy to shy away from the limelight. No doubt Newey is very good but, IMO Rory is clearly better. Newey did have a lot of success at Williams, but when he arrived it already was a "pretty handy" car and he was co-designer there during most of his time there. The other thing about Newey is that, along with some pretty dam good cars, he produced a few stinkers.

  15. #735
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kitchener, CANADA
    Posts
    9,913
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post

    Newey is great but not special.
    +1 mate, couldn't have said it any better myself; Newey is beatable and we'll do just that with the F2012 on track next season
    mark my words, we'll ALL show him what we're capable of doing ON TRACK, not in the press

    i have faith in Ferrari, Byrne, Pat, Tombazis and all the other brilliant engineers we have at Ferrari

    next year will be our year, and hopefully will mark the beginning of a NEW GOLDEN FERRARI ERA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    So 2023 started off bad, but managed to claw back some lap time come end of the year. Lets hope SF24 will give us tifosi something to smile about.

  16. #736
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,015
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet View Post
    Yes, he have some good records but he's not the only one. I never said he's mediocre, you're putting words in my mouth. I've said his brilliant, but he's not the only one, he's not in a league of his own. There are other designer as good or better than him.

    As I've mentioned, where is his success after he couldn't work on the blown diffuser? What happened between then and the Red Bull now, which he basically fell back to an idea he knew well?

    The problem is with his success now, everyone suddenly think he's such a great designer ahead of everyone else when essentially we're not seeing anything new. What made the Red Bull's car so fast this season is an old idea he's done before. He got lucky because the rule changes brought the focus back into an area he's good at.

    Brawn's success with the double diffuser shows that other designer can come up with great ideas too, and ideas no one else would have thought about.

    Newey is great but not special.
    Oh yeah it's just an old idea that won them the championship anyone could have have thought of it so why didn't they? I'm not declaring that Newey is the sole inventor of good ideas but he is very good at what he does. If it was Ferrari's idea I'm sure you would be saying its genius. I don't need to bother arguing with you two, you both have your heads burried in the sand. Being British I admire what he has accomplished even if he doesn't work for Ferrari. He just got a OBE, it will make it sweeter when we beat Redbull. It's only after we beat them that all these people downplaying Newey will be like Oh my god we beat Newey.
    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo52ws9xLo1qlt7lao1_500.gif

  17. #737
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    none
    Posts
    1,108
    Newey is an excellent Engineer, no doubt about that but he has been beaten in the recent past! The Brawn tean did come up with an idea that even Newey did not think of. Ferrari's success in the past seems to have come back to bite them and the other teams. When a team like Red Bull is permitted to use a device that is not a purely "passive" aerodynamic influencing device in nature to aid the race car, one has to question the motives of the FIA in approving it??? The FIA's action or inaction on a device is a means to directly manipulate the outcome of the championship from season to season. I think this is an issue that must be debated in depth and could actually lead to the Rules being freed up to permit greater innovation and greater development / advancement of the race cars. If the FIA were to permit the evolution of the race car in the future, we could see much different race car designs on the race track at the same time. I think of the old days when we saw the application of effects to race cars by Lotus or Liger multi-wheeled race car, the Flat-12 Ferrari ran vs. Ford V-8 engines ran by so many teams, etc. all contributed to making Formula One very exciting and "Cutting-Edge". Those were exciting days in Formula One and I for one would love to see a return to that era.

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  18. #738
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    3,195
    Could we please get back on topic guys.
    Last edited by SilverSpeed; 7th January 2012 at 15:55.
    Hero's come and go, but legends never die!

  19. #739
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    692
    I think a good point has been brought up though - i.e. that Newey never designed a winning car with periscope exhausts.

    The combination of the blown diffuser and off throttle blowing is a big reason why the Red Bull is so fast. We never mastered these, particularly the off throttle blowing. We saw what happened in Silverstone this year, and we also saw at the start of last year in Bahrain that we had the fastest non EBD car.

  20. #740
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    9,846
    Quote Originally Posted by TheProdigalSon View Post
    Oh yeah it's just an old idea that won them the championship anyone could have have thought of it so why didn't they? I'm not declaring that Newey is the sole inventor of good ideas but he is very good at what he does. If it was Ferrari's idea I'm sure you would be saying its genius. I don't need to bother arguing with you two, you both have your heads burried in the sand. Being British I admire what he has accomplished even if he doesn't work for Ferrari. He just got a OBE, it will make it sweeter when we beat Redbull. It's only after we beat them that all these people downplaying Newey will be like Oh my god we beat Newey.
    There's nothing wrong if you want to admire him for his nationality or any other reasons, but you can't expect everyone to see him the same way.

    I've already made my point why I think Newey is good, but he's not as special as many made him out to be when we look at the period after the late 90s once blown diffuser became impractical Just like the race driver having to adept to different racing situation each time the race, car designers have to adept to the changing rules and requirement. And to me, Newey have shown that he can be a good designer with good ideas, but just like any other good designers, he can't always get them right, or always be the one with great ideas. He have his own period of drought.

    So yes he's good as what he does, but so are others. He's not leap and bounds better than others.

  21. #741
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    949
    According to MARCA, Massa will test the car on the first day at Jerez:

    http://www.marca.com/2012/01/07/moto...325934925.html

  22. #742
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,755
    No one is saying Newey is unbeatable.

    The stats speak for themselves:
    Newey is the only designer to have won Constructors Championships with three different Formula One teams.
    The cars he designed won the WCC 8 times while Rory Bryne's designs won the WCC 7 times.

    Other than Rory Bryne, Newey is leaps and bounds better than other designers. To disregard Newey's achievements is simply ignorant and naive.

    You are, of course, entitled to your opinion; however, ask any top teams, they wouldn't think twice to sign Newey if Newey is willing to provide his service.

  23. #743
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    none
    Posts
    1,108
    Newey is not important. Now back on topic. What is important is that the 2012' Ferrari Race Car is much more radical and innovative in design and construction. This new 2012' Ferrari Race Car has a great deal of Rory Byne Design in it and his careful hand is guiding this Re-Vamped Ferrari Engineering group of VERY skilled Engineers. The big picture is that Ferrari has been developing this 2012' race car since late Spring 2011'. They hired severa, new, key, seasoned, experieced, highly qualified people to return this team around to their rightful leaders pace in Formula One. This can not be stressed enough nor over stated! Ferrari are getting ready to present a much farther reaching design race car for the 2012 season.

    This is what is hoped and promised!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  24. #744
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    949
    Someone posted this on Autosport, can anyone translate it?


  25. #745
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    2,608
    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Lorca View Post
    Someone posted this on Autosport, can anyone translate it?
    Main bits I got from this are (and my Italian is pretty bad ):-

    Pull-rod rear suspension

    Drivers lower

    Rear wing not final

    Venting heat from a single central hole (already speculated about - interesting)

    Stepped nose

    Front wing like we saw in Korea

    Also mentions the exhaust is in the defined area

  26. #746
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    949
    Quote Originally Posted by NJB13 View Post
    Main bits I got from this are (and my Italian is pretty bad ):-

    Pull-rod rear suspension

    Drivers lower

    Rear wing not final

    Venting heat from a single central hole (already speculated about - interesting)

    Stepped nose

    Front wing like we saw in Korea

    Also mentions the exhaust is in the defined area
    Thanks.

    The Spanish people on Twitter also mentioned that Alonso wanting a lower driving position a few months ago, which this article seems to confirm.

  27. #747
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    22
    From Twitter

    - From La Gazzetta dello Sport' on the 2012 Ferrari: Pull-Rod suspension, the pilots will go lower
    - rear spoiler interim provisional front wing, xtraction of single channel internal heat, modifications of the nose, escapes defined area, storage rooms
    - F2012 in February and in Melbourne with luck, will have changed more than 60% visibly
    - the front wing will have some appendices are not reflected in the simulation, logical thing obviously
    - from La Gazzetta article The nose shows changes on the outside not inside;)
    - And nothing from the exhaust, is a simulation of something 'simplistic'. If you teach the diffuser off and let's go;)
    - The wheelbase is maybe shorter front
    - Venting heat from a single central hole
    - DRS yet not finshed
    - Stepped nose and front wing introduced in Korea will be more developed and certainly not 'simple' looking;)

  28. #748
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Maributo Key
    Posts
    5,988
    Thats not a real pic..its all speculation so far of what people "think" its going to look like.
    I mean, thats fine, and it gives a lot of people something to talk about. I know Im willing to
    look at anything thats put out there.

    N What advantages does a step nose provide..I mean, its a bit ugly.

  29. #749
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    none
    Posts
    1,108
    The "Stepped Nose" can provide a certain kind of air flow to both meet the new rule for maximum Nose Height and at the same time allow for the maximum air flow through the frontal area of the race car. The low tip of the nose could also induce a high pressure area just rearward of the front wing. Again, it is all about what air you seek to use and how you use it. I think all of the other features are geared toward applying those things that are proven to be the best solutions so far and some not tried yet, like the channeling of hot air generated by the exhaust pipes themselves toward the rear diffuser area of the race car. I think everyone is constantly looking at all aspects of the high and low pressure air influences on the race car. We know that there are many layers of air that act on and about the race car. There is also the aspect of "Wake" and how that air influences the race car as well. I think everyone will seek to capture as much linear axial air load on the race car as they can but at the same time seek to have as little "Drag" as possible. It is a marvelous science!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  30. #750
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Italia
    Posts
    6
    Hi all just wanted to help out with the translation of the article, as I often love reading the new developments from this forum. The features which are shown on the car in this article are a list of the changes which are being looked at due to the new regulations and due to some changes which ferrari were already experimenting with last season. By what is written in the article I don't think ferrari will have a stepped nose for example. The article simply exposes some areas of the car which will be modified and applies those changes to last years car, it does not attempt to guess what the new car looks like.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •