Thread: Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

  1. #1351
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    I think we shouldnt bring the new parts in China that would be risky if the parts are not suitable maybe we should wait till Bahrain to improve them even more and start wining and get podiums on regular basis if thats possible and ofc it is.

  2. #1352
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    Why is everyone so obsessed with front pull-rod suspension? It seems that our main problem is aerodynamics, not building the car itself. In fact, I think we're pretty good at it, and if Ferrari has chosen it there must be a very good reason.

  3. #1353
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvantiAlonsoWDC View Post
    Why is everyone so obsessed with front pull-rod suspension? It seems that our main problem is aerodynamics, not building the car itself. In fact, I think we're pretty good at it, and if Ferrari has chosen it there must be a very good reason.
    . Many experts just say this is the problem when looking at anything different.
    first it was mcLaren nose will make car suk. McLaren win first race.
    then, Ferrari pullrod ruins mechanical grip. Ferrari win first wet race.

    you see a trend. the main issue right now, is the rear aerodynamics, and they know that, which is why they have 2 upgrades coming centrally onto this part of the car.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  4. #1354
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    I hope these upgrades will work, so many times in last years these "big upgrades" have failed.
    Meanwhile, it either says something or just nothing that Alonso, Schumacher and Raikkonen have reputedly spared a F1 podium on five occasions and Fernando has stood on the top step on every occasion. He's F1's first among equals. (PG)

  5. #1355
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    ^They must work if they dont we will have to move on to next years car and that's called deja vu.

  6. #1356
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    @ AvantiAlonsoWDC,

    Please understand that the in order for the front Pull-Rod suspension to work properly they have had to apply severe Chamber to the front tires to get front end grip. In applying this type of Chamber to the front tires, it drasticly changes the balance of the race car as fuel is consumed. Ferrari are encountering a great deal of changing variations in geometry. This in turn causes changing grip of the race car. The best solution is to either revise the suspension pickups to allow a more stable (Less geometry veriation changes) as fuel load reduces or go to a more linear Push-Rod Suspension that is not prone to such severe geometry variations.

    I am getting sick of all of these people posting such nonsense about the season being opver for Ferrari and they have to move on to the 2013 race car if they are not winning immediately! The fact is all of the teams seem to be very closely matched this year and Thank God, Red Bull is NOT the dominant team this year! McLaren is marginally ahead of the field at the moment but Formula One moves very quickly and a new leading team can emerge at any time. Ferrari's win on Sunday shows anything can happen, especially when the racing is measured in 10th's of a second. Ferrari should never be under estimated, EVER! 2010 was a year when they made a very strong comeback from being much further back in the season with a very dominant team the try to beat. This year the playing field is much more even and no team has an unfair advantage against the entire field. I again tell all "Ferrari Fans" if that is what they are, to have faith adn be positive and support the team!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  7. #1357
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    Hopefully the new parts for China and Bahrain work as expected or better, it would be a boost to my positiveness about the big upgrade later in May.

  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    FiA have moved the last test preseason into the first week of may. Held at Mugello. Ferrari let the teams use it for fre, since they own the track.
    Ok, thanks, though I don't like the idea of Macheaters and Red Fools testing on our track

  9. #1359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red is Best View Post
    Ok, thanks, though I don't like the idea of Macheaters and Red Fools testing on our track
    Ferrari parts arrive: go on straight through.
    McLaren RedBull parts arrive: sorry, these are very sharp, safety hazard, we have to confiscate them.


    But seriously, this is perfect as it is 4 days and nice logistically as well, so new modifications and parts can arrive in a matter of hours rather than days.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  10. #1360
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    Ferrari parts arrive: go on straight through.
    McLaren RedBull parts arrive: sorry, these are very sharp, safety hazard, we have to confiscate them.


    But seriously, this is perfect as it is 4 days and nice logistically as well, so new modifications and parts can arrive in a matter of hours rather than days.
    You can't say that McLaren's and RB's new parts are unsafe, that would be too obvious. We simply don't let them use them because "Those new parts break the spirit of the rule".

  11. #1361
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    "Please understand that the in order for the front Pull-Rod suspension to work properly they have had to apply severe Chamber to the front tires to get front end grip. In applying this type of Chamber to the front tires, it drasticly changes the balance of the race car as fuel is consumed. Ferrari are encountering a great deal of changing variations in geometry. This in turn causes changing grip of the race car. The best solution is to either revise the suspension pickups to allow a more stable (Less geometry veriation changes) as fuel load reduces or go to a more linear Push-Rod Suspension that is not prone to such severe geometry variations. "

    You'd think they would have worked this out on a computer simulation before even building the prototype, not at the second test in Barca.... No wonder we have suffered so much since the test ban.

  12. #1362
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    Mercedes F1 W03 - 'F-duct' front wing detail
    http://www.formula1.com/news/technic...2/865/949.html
    Can we copy this ?
    "Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose." (Ayrton Senna)
    Forza Ferrari

  13. #1363
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    Video of Mercedes F duct FW

    Copy,Copy,Copy,Copy,Copy,Copy,Copy,Copy,
    "Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose." (Ayrton Senna)
    Forza Ferrari

  14. #1364
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    Here is the view of the Mercedes front wing Schumacher tried so much to hide from photographers.getpreview.jpg

  15. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisko View Post
    Mercedes F1 W03 - 'F-duct' front wing detail
    http://www.formula1.com/news/technic...2/865/949.html
    Can we copy this ?
    it think they already are trying to do so... it's not a matter of can they just a matter of time, will it be as efficient as the Mercedes one, probably not..
    Veni Vidi Vici e Vici Vici Vici.... Ferrari F2012 WDC WCC Champion

  16. #1366
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    I think Ferrari should concentrate on other parts of the car rather than copy this. It doesn't seem to me to be something that will give a huge performance boost, especially in the race. If the car itself is can be made quick and more efficient, this won't be needed.

  17. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    I think Ferrari should concentrate on other parts of the car rather than copy this. It doesn't seem to me to be something that will give a huge performance boost, especially in the race. If the car itself is can be made quick and more efficient, this won't be needed.
    our race pace with fuul tanks is good,we are stragiling too get in Q3.We need this
    "Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose." (Ayrton Senna)
    Forza Ferrari

  18. #1368
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    Ferrari are working on EVERY part of the race car! Nothing is being left untouched. They have many teams of Engineers working on many things. Don't be mislead in thinking that Ferrari is just working on one thing.

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  19. #1369
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  20. #1370
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    Ferrari twitter:


    - No new car in the pipleline but we will work on improvements, starting from China and more to come in Spain

    - Nothing major in the next two races

    - In Spain we will have a bigger update but time will tell if it will be enough

    - We don't think the difference is in the nose....

  21. #1371
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    Yup Ferrari had a live chat today with their fans, I'll post the whole chat:

    wind tunnel, CFD simulation & track data
    - It is fine, this is not the main problem we have

    si mormora che il problema della F2012 sia nella sospensione pull-rod anteriore... Quanto c'č di vero?
    - Nulla.. (The rumor is that the problem is the pull-rod suspension - Not true.)

    How many non-Italians work at Ferrari?
    - around 20%

    what is laking in the 2012 ? speed or constant race trim ?
    - Mainly top speed and traction out of the slow corners, generally some downforce

    what should we expect in the improvements in the car? Are u going to build a completely new one (some press writes that)?
    - No new car in the pipleline but we will work on improvements, starting from China and more to come in Spain

    Q: Is it true we let Felipe do some testing during race?
    - It is not true at all... Both drivers, Fernando even more, worked on different aero configurations on Fridays, as usual.

    what are you working on for improving the car towards next race?
    - mainly on the aero side

    a spanish journalist says that you are developing a new chassis for Barcelona. Is that true or just upgrades?
    - It is not true, as we told to that Spanish journalist in Sepan

    who in your opinion is the best driver that ever raced for ferrari?
    - difficult question... In the modern age, Michael and Fernando, but Kimi very very close to them as pure talent

    Fernando spends a lot of time with team, doesn't he?
    - Yes, true!! THis is very positive

    Is Fernando a classical music lover?
    - Yes he is

    How's Massa?
    - Felipe is obviously disappointed but he knows we have faith in his talent

    Are you guys planning on hiring someone new since Felipe is not really making a huge imapct in the 2012 season?
    - No, no plans

    Will you be able to give Alonso a car to fight with the best this year?
    - Our target is to provide a competitive cars to both drivers

    In Malaysia Ferrari's engines across the line of 70 000 km of leading during the race. Have you celebrated it?
    - Honestly, we did not know at all!!

    Quante ore trascorre un pilota al simulatore per preparasi ad una gara? Grazie.
    - Non c'č un limite, di solito quando un pilota trascorre un giorno al simulatore lavora 6/8 ore (How many hours a driver spends on the simulator to prepare for a race? Thank you. - There is a limit, usually when a driver spends a day in the simulator works 6/8 hours)

    Se trabajara en alguna mejora del coche para llevarlas a China? Que podeis decir de la increible carrera de @alo_oficial ?
    - Yes, there will be some improvement. Fernando did an incredible race, as in Melbourne and many times last year as well

    How many hours does an engineer work back in the factory a day?
    - It depends, 8/10?

    any two drivers past or present, who would the Scuderia choose for their ideal team
    - Michael, Kimi, Fernando, Niki: this is our personal choice

    Avete sufficienti dati per le prossime linee di sviluppo o ci sono ancora zone buie?
    - Onestamente c'č sempre da scoprire qualcosa, soprattutto in una fase iniziale della stagione come questa (Do you have sufficient data for future lines of development or are there still dark areas? - Honestly there is always something to discover, especially at an early stage of the season like this)

    how long does it take to develop a F1 chassis?
    - from scratch? Usually, you start working on the new car around April...

    If you could bring back one track from the past, which one would it be and why?
    - Imola, because is the closest!

    Will Ferrari be at the Goodwood Festival of Speed this year & is there a chance Felipe & Fernando will attend?
    - Yes, but we're afraid Felipe and Fernando will be unable to go

    How soon do you think you'll be 100% happy with your car?
    - we hope very soon!

    what about Sunday? We are wondering whether FIA will double our points for one car racing while one car is testing...ah sorry
    - Very funny....

    are you guys going to make a creative front wing just like Mercedes to match them?
    - It depends if it is really legal...

    Are we going to see a better car in China?
    - Hopefully yes!

    is Ferrari set to sign the new Concorde Agreement?
    - We've reached an agreement, this is the only thing we can say

    what goals have the team set for this years championship taking into account testing and the 1st two races?
    - The goal @insideferrari can have is only one: winning...

    will the updates for china and Bahrein be significant or rather minor. When do you expect to have closed the gap
    - Nothing major in the next two races

    Will we see a new or different exhaust solution on the car before Mugello & Spain?
    - Time will tell

    Did you arrange a small party after the race at Malaysia to celebrate this emotional victory?
    - No, unfortunately not... We did something here in Maranello with all the people of Gestione Sportiva

    is it true that you guys want to return to the pullrod suspension instead of a pushrod?
    - no

    better to tell Stefano (i still support him) to protect Felipe well and do not let us disappointed again...
    - This is what we're doing

    Why doesn't a rich brand like Ferrari do charity?
    - We do it but we don't say it...

    Yo pienso que @alo_oficial es uno de los 10 mejores de la historia. En que puesto estaria para vosotros? Seguro en los top 10.. (Alonso is a top 10 driver in the history of F1)

    [b]what is the biggest car related problem you guys are facing at the moment?
    - lack of traction and top speed

    Any plans to introduce a DRS F-Duct like the Mercedes system? If yes, when will it debut?
    - At the moment we've other priorities

    what is the difference in Massa's car and Alonso's car?Y is massa lagging so much as both are equally talented
    - The cars are the same...

    I've heard that Kimi didn't know how to get to Maranello. ŋIs it true? smile.gif
    - NO...

    can we expect to see any improvements to the car in China?
    - we will have some update

    Hello, we hear lot of rumors about Kubica in Ferrari, can you tell us something more about it
    - only rumours...

    How many people work on the car including the ones back in the factory?
    - around 600

    Where could we expect a reasonably winner car? Spain? Is there a scheduled program of improvements?Forza Ferrari! Avanti Fer!
    - In Spain we will have a bigger update but time will tell if it will be enough

    how does Alonso feel after winning the Malaysian GP?
    - Ah, he was over the moon!

    Was there no alternative of nose shape?
    - not as efficient as we've chosen

    why is Massa's car is slower by almost 10Kph on straight with DRS than Alonso's???
    - This is not true

    how come fernados car is faster than felipes i thought the cars were s'pose to be equal
    - they are exaclty the same

    Why does everyone call the F2012 ugly? I think it's absolutely gorgeous!
    - Everyone has his own taste.. A nice car is a winning car in our view...

    other than the new gearbox, what new parts/modifications will be fitted for the Chinese GP?
    - New gearbox?? Not true

    when is the next round of significant upgrades due?
    - we will try to introduce updates at every race

    Do you think Bahrain will go ahead?
    - At the moment there is nothing which says the contrary

    Are the team at all interesting in replacing felipe massa with Sergio Perez? or is that classified?

    - No, not interested

    Why Ferrari decided to go social this year (fernando on twitter&fb etc). will there be any new updates in China?
    - Because we felt it was better to have a direct contact with the fans

    are u expecting to win more races this season?
    - Hopefully yes!

    how you feel at last laps in Malaysia?
    - Very tense....

    Do you miss re-fuelling in races, or do you prefer the cars being full on fuel for races?
    - Not particularly

    Are u still confident in the decision 2 go with the step-nose design given McLaren's clear dominance without it?
    - We don't think the difference is in the nose....

    Does the anterior pull road suspension work well or it create trouble with the set up?
    - It works
    well

    Will big changes to the car include new crash test,modified rear suspension geometry?
    - NO, nothing of these things

    any plans to replicate the Mercedes F-duct?
    - This is not a priority at all

    Am I right in thinking there will be big updates at Velencia?
    - Hopefully earlier

    any hint as to what upgrades will u be bringing to China
    - Sorry, let's keep it confidential...

    do you wish Senna had ever raced for Ferrari?
    - Yes, we really wanted him and we've been very close. He was in Maranello few days before the accident in Imola...

    Where is Alonso based now?
    - In Spain

    why other low teams have gone better from last year specially we hope ferrari could be on the front ?
    - Ah, it is true they've done a better job so far but the season is very long

    With a degree in English and German do I have any chance to work for Ferrari in the press department?That has been my dream.
    - Sorry but this is not the only condition.... Italian is required!

    una domanda ma durante il gp della malesia funzionava il kers di Alonso xke mi sembrava dalla grafica di no!!!
    - Il KERS sė la telemetria no..

    What do you think is more important to F1 - expansion into new countries, or classic tracks like Spa, Monza etc?
    - Both things!

    About the situation in Bahrein... What is Ferrari's point of view?
    - we trust FIA and FOM on this subject...

    Fernando has told you something about his tatto??
    - He does not need to ask for permission....

    perchč questo diverso consumo tra le due macchine?
    -Consumo di gomme? E' una delle aree su cui stiamo lavorando per capire quali siano le differenze

    Do you think fernando win any title in Ferrari?
    - 100% sure!!!

    Will you change the nose design to match that of McLaren's
    - No, it is not a matter of noses

    be honest now ... What's up with the Perez team orders at Malaysia? biggrin.gif
    - This is one of the biggest of the last few years....

    Are we going to see a faster car in the next race ?
    - We do hope so

    Como se llama la persona que escribe tweets durante el Gran Premio?
    It is Ferrari, no need for a name (name of the person who write the tweets during races.)
    credit to kosmos on Autosport forum.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

  22. #1372
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    Guys found a very interesting article on autosport forum about all our woes

    The long twitter above by @Paliyoes and retwitted by joseluis gives a fantastic explanation... fantastic in the sense that it offers an explanation for almost everything, it saves face for Ferrari and it may not have a lot to do with reality... Read it, it won't take you long..

    OK, I'll make a rough translation with the help of Bing.

    The real problem with the F2012, a problem Ferrari cannot openly admit, is the ban of reactive suspensions (Lotus style). Ferrari's were even more radical than the Lotus, as they inter-connected also the front and the rear wheels and the left and right sides. This explains why the car behaves well with heavy loads and why it ceases to be effective under light loads; such a system would allow to maintain a stable height, and even more important, would improve the balance under braking, in pure traction exits and in slow curves. As Ferrari was not allowed to put it on the car, the rest of the car suffers, as everything was designed for that device.

    The starting point of the exhaust system, pointing towards the wings of the rear brakes (that never had been so complex in a Ferrari car) would work with that device, but when the system was stripped from the car, all the original exhaust system did was to increase the instability that the device would have prevented. When it is said that there is a team in Maranello that is working on the initial exhaust solution, I think that what they are trying to do is develop such suspension device, but in a way that the FIA may not ban; meanwhile there is another team that is working on a new location for the exahusts (as the McLaren one, etc), and for that alternative location, it will be necessary to modify the sidepods and the engine cap, removing the "Acer Duct". If the first team is successful, the car will be a blast; if it is not, and the second alternative is used, the car may only be abreast of rivals, but not above them.

    The ban of reactive suspensions by the FIA has resulted in a bigger loss for Ferrari than for Renault or for any of the other teams in the championship. This explanation is twofold; on the one hand that of Ferrari went beyond, as it interconnected the front and the rear wheels and the left and right sides, while the Lotus Renault solution was limited to prevent the pitch (or change in pitch) under braking and acceleration.

    On the other hand the Ferrari is much more "pitch sensitive" than the Renault or any rivals who had plans to use such devices, because of its wide and very fine nose, that does not have an overhung, almost like a horizontal spoiler, different to any other nose used by the teams on the Championship, which are narrower, thicker and extending ahead of the pillars. The Ferrari is thereby subject to pressures from the nose, as when you get your hand out of the window of a car and put it horizontally: a little tilting is all it takes to displace it. When the Ferrari slows down, the nose tends to fall, and that gives more downforce in the front, but at the same time, it removes downforce from the rear and it, therefore, makes the car less stable under braking than the engineers had hoped when they designed it with the reactive suspension that initially the FIA did not declare illegal (which was why it was initially developed by several teams); later, coming out from a slow curve, the nose rises and reduces the downforce in the front, increasing it in the rear; that should be good for traction, but the traction lost at the front means that the improved traction may not be fully used, as the car would oversteer, forcing drivers to get out of slow corners with more restraint than necessary.

    The woes of Ferrari begun due to the absence of a device designed to improve the balance, and due to the flawed aerodynamics of the car, that were planned for being used with that device.

    But make no mistake, they will solve it.

  23. #1373
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    hmm.. interesting indeed. thanks for that

  24. #1374
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    http://www.formula1.com/news/technic...2/865/948.html

    ...useful of having Alonso who gives ideas from his experience at other teams

  25. #1375
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazoz View Post
    ... The real problem with the F2012, a problem Ferrari cannot openly admit, is the ban of reactive suspensions (Lotus style). Ferrari's were even more radical....
    WOW, that's exactly what I've been thinking over last few days. As soon as I wrote Scarbs' comment on the main problems related with pitch sensitivity of the F2012 (change of ridehight and DF during acceleration and braking) i recalled the banned Lotus system and Stefano's word about it (Ferrari had it according to him too).

  26. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazoz View Post

    The real problem with the F2012, a problem Ferrari cannot openly admit, is the ban of reactive suspensions (Lotus style).
    Very good reading and it "covers" all current problems that car has so it may be plausible indeed... We can just hope that the team is able to find better solution (that FIA cant ban!) so that we can use some similar system in order to support all other parts of the car that were built upon that idea...

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  28. #1378
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    Quote Originally Posted by medeni73 View Post
    Very good reading and it "covers" all current problems that car has so it may be plausible indeed... We can just hope that the team is able to find better solution (that FIA cant ban!) so that we can use some similar system in order to support all other parts of the car that were built upon that idea...
    seems to explain a lot also how radical Ferraris car was as all components were interlinked therefore without a integral part of the puzzle being the part the car has suffered , what i don't understand is why they didn't fight a little to the FIA for it

  29. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacc View Post
    WOW, that's exactly what I've been thinking over last few days. As soon as I wrote Scarbs' comment on the main problems related with pitch sensitivity of the F2012 (change of ridehight and DF during acceleration and braking) i recalled the banned Lotus system and Stefano's word about it (Ferrari had it according to him too).
    maybe Ferrari didn't realise at the time they banned it how much it would affect them

  30. #1380
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazoz View Post
    maybe Ferrari didn't realise at the time they banned it how much it would affect them
    LOL, you just answered your own question above
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

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