Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[Forzi]

I read that they are going to put doors on the F2012...That should make it faster on the straights.

[Avantifer12]

This is how the new F2012 sidepods could look like!
http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formul...+una+FERRAuber!

[scuderiafan]

Pat Fry did say that they were looking into that. i expect them to be looking at this solutions, and asking Sauber about it , the one they have right nnow, and they will also be looking into the main solution as well.

[dmkevin]

I heard this too

[Greig]

Asking and being told by Sauber would be cheating ourselfs, hopefully we are not plunging those depths that our technical team need to ask Sauber how to get it working....how embarrassing.

[Omegablue]

This is how the new F2012 sidepods could look like!
http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formul...+una+FERRAuber!

Then surely it will become the ugliest Ferrari ever in F1.
Really deslike the sinking rear like Red Bull.

Sad, years before Sauber was brought out by BMW, Ferrari was supplying them with aerodynamics and other parts aside from the engines.
And now we're copying them.

[scuderiafan]

well, if you remember, the same magazine said that Ferrari would be scrapping the pullrod front. so it might not be true.

[Hornet]

Well, if Ferrari's original exhaust solution doesn't work out, that's the only sensible route to go to clear up the area leading to the diffuser. There's no reason to impede the airflow to the diffuser with our "Acer duct" if its not giving us any advantage.

Of course, with that said, I hope Ferrari won't have to go to Sauber and ask for their blue print

[FrankAlfa]

This is actually a VERY GOOD SOLUTION! The removal of the "Acer Ducts" as everyone is calling them allow for the perfect "Back Wash" from ther forward sloped area ot the sidepod and I don't think they will need to retest anything! Clean flow to the rear Diffuser and rear wing should give very good downforce! I questioned the "Ace Ducts" from the first time I saw them! They only killed air flow and limitted rear downforce.

Ciao.

Forze Ferrar!!!!

[REDARMYSOJA]

So it's not Perez we need from Sauber, it's their engineers?

[FrankAlfa]

LOL, nah Ferrari just reached a bit to far. Ferrari can review and revise the shape of the rear sidepod area to work better. The "Coke Bottle" shape is still the most important aspect of the rear of the race car. Ferrari tried to use the "Acer Tubes" as a means to draw and suck air flow from the floor and the aperture opening of the sidepods then have them exit through the "Acre Tubes". The principle was to accelerate the air through the sidepods by using the rapid convection of the exhaust gases to blow the rear diffuser using the Acer Ducts. It has proven very problematic and a simpler solution is what we are seeing on most of the race cars which is to remove the Acer Duct structures and let the hot exhaust gases and the air flow through and aound the rear of the sidepods blend giving a charged air flow to the rear. Clean up the airflow and direct it where you want it is the name of the game.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Hornet]

So it's not Perez we need from Sauber, it's their engineers?

I don't see anything special with that. We've been using such rear section last year, so did Red Bull and everyone else. The exhaust placement may be a different thing, but such design is common. Many teams are still using that design.

Its our acer duct that's uncommon.

[scudvirgin10]

in my opinion maybe ferrari already have an solution and they selling it by sauber that solution is just a secret so they make a false new about it hoping my opinion is true if not pat fry need to be fired because thats the way of cheating

[dfunk257]

Asking and being told by Sauber would be cheating ourselfs, hopefully we are not plunging those depths that our technical team need to ask Sauber how to get it working....how embarrassing.

Exactly, very embarrasing, and very sad!

[FrankAlfa]

Sometimes people are so disturbed and upset by the way things develop on a race car and have the need to bash Ferrari for changes they make. Ferrari are looking at ways to address the problems encountered with the original ducting system ("Acer Ducts") which though novel, did not produce the kind of downforce affect they were looking for. Sauber's rear end design is not "More" advanced than Ferrari's origonal design, it is simpler and "Less" advanced. Then again Ferrari will folllow a simillar "Less Complicated" rear body work design which is simillar to the Sauber because both have the same Engine, Exhaust, Cooling, etc. to package. This is not about "copying" anyone's design as some are suggesting but rather using a solution which generates more downforce then the original design. So a tighter, less massive rear body work will be fitted in place of the "Acer Ducts". It is NOT a Sauber design!

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[scuderiafan]

Good morning to everybody! Do you like to do another live Q&A? Tomorrow afternoon between 5 and 5.30 pm Central Europe Time?

https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/insideferrari

You can ask them tomorrow.

[Nova]

Exactly, very embarrasing, and very sad!

Why is it so sad? Most of the engineers have worked with and for almost all of the top teams
at one time or another. And whats wrong with Sauber? Simply because 1 team is Ferrari and one is Sauber, doesnt magically
mean the bigger, more popular team is better. And the truth is, they have built a quicker race car at this point in the season.
Id rather see Peter Saubers team doing well than say, Force India, who run Merc power.

[type056]

If this news is true will we see this rear end in China?
Is it a temporary solution for China and Bahrain since Pat said we refine car for better compatibility with exhaust and elsewhere Jose Luise said that we are working on two solution.

[scuderiafan]

If this news is true will we see this rear end in China?
Is it a temporary solution for China and Bahrain since Pat said we refine car for better compatibility with exhaust and elsewhere Jose Luise said that we are working on two solution.

Exactly what I want to know. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone here with a twitter account would ask them tomorrow, about what solution they are working on.

[burak karakutuk]

Exhaust is a hard work and if i am true it is made by human hand human workink i mean not the serial production.So i guess it is difficult to arrive to China.In my opinion we will try both solutions in Mugello tests and then we will decide which one we go on

[dmkevin]

Guys found a very interesting article on autosport forum about all our woes

The long twitter above by @Paliyoes and retwitted by joseluis gives a fantastic explanation... fantastic in the sense that it offers an explanation for almost everything, it saves face for Ferrari and it may not have a lot to do with reality... Read it, it won't take you long..

OK, I'll make a rough translation with the help of Bing.

The real problem with the F2012, a problem Ferrari cannot openly admit, is the ban of reactive suspensions (Lotus style). Ferrari's were even more radical than the Lotus, as they inter-connected also the front and the rear wheels and the left and right sides. This explains why the car behaves well with heavy loads and why it ceases to be effective under light loads; such a system would allow to maintain a stable height, and even more important, would improve the balance under braking, in pure traction exits and in slow curves. As Ferrari was not allowed to put it on the car, the rest of the car suffers, as everything was designed for that device.

The starting point of the exhaust system, pointing towards the wings of the rear brakes (that never had been so complex in a Ferrari car) would work with that device, but when the system was stripped from the car, all the original exhaust system did was to increase the instability that the device would have prevented. When it is said that there is a team in Maranello that is working on the initial exhaust solution, I think that what they are trying to do is develop such suspension device, but in a way that the FIA may not ban; meanwhile there is another team that is working on a new location for the exahusts (as the McLaren one, etc), and for that alternative location, it will be necessary to modify the sidepods and the engine cap, removing the "Acer Duct". If the first team is successful, the car will be a blast; if it is not, and the second alternative is used, the car may only be abreast of rivals, but not above them.

The ban of reactive suspensions by the FIA has resulted in a bigger loss for Ferrari than for Renault or for any of the other teams in the championship. This explanation is twofold; on the one hand that of Ferrari went beyond, as it interconnected the front and the rear wheels and the left and right sides, while the Lotus Renault solution was limited to prevent the pitch (or change in pitch) under braking and acceleration.

On the other hand the Ferrari is much more "pitch sensitive" than the Renault or any rivals who had plans to use such devices, because of its wide and very fine nose, that does not have an overhung, almost like a horizontal spoiler, different to any other nose used by the teams on the Championship, which are narrower, thicker and extending ahead of the pillars. The Ferrari is thereby subject to pressures from the nose, as when you get your hand out of the window of a car and put it horizontally: a little tilting is all it takes to displace it. When the Ferrari slows down, the nose tends to fall, and that gives more downforce in the front, but at the same time, it removes downforce from the rear and it, therefore, makes the car less stable under braking than the engineers had hoped when they designed it with the reactive suspension that initially the FIA did not declare illegal (which was why it was initially developed by several teams); later, coming out from a slow curve, the nose rises and reduces the downforce in the front, increasing it in the rear; that should be good for traction, but the traction lost at the front means that the improved traction may not be fully used, as the car would oversteer, forcing drivers to get out of slow corners with more restraint than necessary.

The woes of Ferrari begun due to the absence of a device designed to improve the balance, and due to the flawed aerodynamics of the car, that were planned for being used with that device.

But make no mistake, they will solve it.

After having analysed the above statement, i believe this could be true. If we go back to jerez testing ferrari had very high rake on the f2012 and this high rake suggests that the components on the f2012 works better at an angle of incidence to the airflow. So lets say the suspension system would have worked in such a way that the optimum rake is achieved at all time for best performance of the aerodynamics of the car, this could explain the inconsistent behaviour of the car. Aerodynamics is a very complex subject, and still today the navier stoke's equation cannot explain how the bumble bee can fly!!! so if the car was built around a clever suspension system which would have adjusted the car ride height accordingly and hence optimising the effect of the aerodynamics, then it would make sense. The exhaust i believe doesn't really work without the suspension ride height system that is probably why the car had a window within which it would perform really well and then switch to being inconsistent. I believe ferrari will have the same car comes spain but with a new system as stated above that's why they have been saying all along that the car will not be a B spec but a development of the current one... making such a system would need build time due to its complexity and also to make it legal.

[mark p]

Maybe. I think of all the many supposed problems we have some maybe right others not maybe a little bit of everything. Not a day goes by without another theory. I wonder what tommorrow will bring, Ferrari are struggling to make round wheels so suffer poor ride etc etc but hope to produce round wheels for Barcelona? Any bets on what some mastermind will put on twitter tommorrow?

[scuderiafan]

An interview I found of Scarbs on the F2012, courtesy of puxanando on the Autosport forums.

Despite Alonso’s win in Malaysia the spotlight is very much still on Ferrari after their radical development on the F2012 has yet to show they can seriously challenge for the title. BBC’s Technical Reporter Gary Anderson spoke during winter testing of how the Ferrari seems very inconsistent, looking blisteringly quick one minute and then handling terribly the next, what do you believe to be the reason behind this?

Ferraris problems are complex, I believe there is a fundamental aero imbalance, and this overrides other issues that people have highlighted, especially regards the pullrod front suspension and the exhaust configuration.The cars downforce shifts unpredictably when braking and accelerating, this requires the team to stiffen the suspension which wreck low speed performance. This partly explains the teams inconsistent performance, the car is inherently quick, but lack the balance in all conditions. The team will need to look at the front wing and diffuser; perhaps the change in exhaust position forced by tyre heating issues has lead to a lack of sealing of the diffuser.

Its clear Ferrari have more upgrades coming for china and the bigger upgrade package for Spain. However the latter is not expected to be a new chassis with pushrod front suspension. Indeed the front suspension problems are a red herring masking the aero problems with the car.

http://thewriteformula.net/2012/04/0...-of-scarbs-f1/


Good read. Furthers my belief that the car when with proper rear will come good.

[Hornet]

I'm no expert, but so long as our problem is not a design flaw in the car, I'm happy. If we can solve it with some minor tweaks and there, then there's better hope for us yet.

[ferrari4life]

so all this talk about us copying Sauber...question is how do they compare to the clear class of the field McLaren in a dry race?

[ferrari4life]

looking at the results of AUS.. they came in 6-8.. I am not seeing this as a massive positive step in order to beat McLaren

[mark p]

Yeah but Sauber beat Mclaren in the last race. They were the quickest car potentialy but of course we were as we won.

[Forza 27]

Is it true that we will see in the Chinese GP a new sidepods and exhaust layout in the F2012 like Sauber C31 has?
Inside Ferrari@ "not at all!"

There are a lot of talk about the new 'Ferrauber' being launched in Mugello. How far is it true?
@Inside Ferrari: "Very far..."

Was the ban of reactive suspensions what caused all the instability problems and aero inefficiency?
@Inside Ferrari: No, because we did not have any reactive suspension... >>>

When you will make the biggest upgrade on f2012?
@Inside Ferrari: a bigger upgrade is expected in Spain...

[Hombre B]

Ferrari twitter:

- Rory is working mainly on a new road car project and he is keen to give suggestion to the racing team, as usual

- Good, even though we know the next two races will be still on the defensive side.

- It is a team work but Pat has always the final word

- a bigger upgrade is expected in Spain

[wacc]

Ferrari twitter:

just to clarify, the third quote was related to race strategy.