Thread: Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

  1. #1501
    T van R Guest
    Above information about updates in china or 4 tenths or exhaust concept are based on others speculation or rumors & we can't really count on those information. Ferrari said that the car in China & Bahrain approximately will be the same as the one we had in Australia & Malaysia.
    Last edited by T van R; 9th April 2012 at 19:16.

  2. #1502
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    4 tenths don't sound like a a lot but i do wonder whether the quoted 4 tenths will only come from the exhaust or other updates too. The thing to remember is that updates might not work and so the expected increase in performance may not materialize, but this also holds true for the opposite, the updates might work wonders and WOW the team. I hope so anyway.
    Having said that i don't expect any drastic changes on the car in China or Bahrain. Now that Alonso is leading the championship i think they will allow more time to refine the updates they are correctly working on and introduce them all together. Moreover the new parts maybe designed to complement each other, thus introducing parts on an incremental basis may not reap any imminent rewards; the parts would need to be introduced all together for any performance benefit whatsoever. Of course this is all speculation, but IMO what would help Ferrari is is to introduce these updates as soon as possible and choose a a development path soon after. It seems as though the team has plenty of ideas, lets hope they can make them work on the car and come up with FORMULA 1.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by T van R View Post
    Above information about updates in china or 4 tenths or exhaust concept are based on others speculation or rumors & we can't really count on those information. Ferrari said that the car in China & Bahrain approximately will be the same as the one we had in Australia & Malaysia.
    i really hope not, a 3 week break and no significant updates?
    if this is the case then they'd better bring a very BIG one in Spain, i don't see how else we can fight our way back to the top.
    Life might be hard, Concrete is a lot harder

  4. #1504
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    Yeah 3 weeks and nothing major says to me they know what to do but it is not ready so we will have to wait. My pure speculation is that to the eye our update looks similar to original exhaust but with shorter acer duct. I get the feeling many will be dissapointed unless we have 3 rear wings etc but the devils in the detail. No matter how great the high res pics you can tell nothing without the hard figures which we will never get. Seasoned f1 designers look at the pics and tell nothing only philosophies which is easy to get the philosophies to work you need the data. Looking at pics is like picking football scores from team sheets.

  5. #1505
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    i think, after the 1st few races and seeing where Ferrari is in terms of pace, speed etc,
    that they will bring a lot of new things to the next race. I wouldnt be surprised at all, and really,
    they actually need to.

  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    i personally don't think that 4 tenths after mugello test and into the spain GP will be enough to fight with the front runners....aka McCheaters...maybe some of you forgot that in pure pace we're like a second for more down our rivals...

    but hey, anything is better then what our race car is doing and any bit of speed (even if it's not enough yet) is welcomed
    Let's not forget that the car is actually quite competitive on heavier fuel loads.... it's when the car gets lighter that the problems start to materialize.... if they can stabilize this problem with the revised rear, a 0.4 second improvement overall should be pretty good....
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Let's not forget that the car is actually quite competitive on heavier fuel loads.... it's when the car gets lighter that the problems start to materialize.... if they can stabilize this problem with the revised rear, a 0.4 second improvement overall should be pretty good....
    i know what you're saying (with us being somewhat competitive on heavy fuel) and believe me, i'd be more then THRILLED if the rumors are actually true and we get like 4 tenths outta the upgrades (although i was hoping for more), but i don't think is gonna be enough to FIGHT for the top positions in QUALY....that's what i'm trying to get at...
    Last edited by FerrariF60; 10th April 2012 at 01:15.
    So 2023 started off bad, but managed to claw back some lap time come end of the year. Lets hope SF24 will give us tifosi something to smile about.

  8. #1508
    T van R Guest
    To be honest i have became very happy as Stefano domenicali announced Ferrari is still working on the original setup. It shows that Ferrari still believe in the potential of the original design & the team is working hard to make the original design work more efficient.
    Last edited by T van R; 10th April 2012 at 14:10.

  9. #1509
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    Chinese Grand Prix - Still a long way to go

    Even before the winter tests in Spain in February had come to an end, the media and “F1 experts” were already talking about Scuderia Ferrari being “in crisis.” This phrase is hardly new, having been used countless times in the 62 year history of the most successful team in the sport. However, in interviews with the press, the drivers and senior management did not deny the fact that the F2012 was displaying some shortcomings in overall performance, particularly on the aerodynamic front and in terms of top speed. There were positives too, such as the Prancing Horse’s inability to get tyres up to temperature quickly, apparently having been solved with this year’s car. However, the opening round in Melbourne showed that the Ferrari did not have the measure of the fastest cars. However, just seven days after he finished fifth in the Australian Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso stood on the top step of the Sepang podium and got down from it leading the Drivers’ championship. How could this happen? A miracle? An accelerated one week development programme? Nothing of the sort as the team’s Technical Director Pat Fry explained. “Our position is down to a combination of circumstances, especially the fact that Fernando had two very good races,” began the Englishman. “In Melbourne, after an issue in qualifying, Fernando’s good start and good first corner made up for a lot of things. The weather conditions at the last race worked in our favour, as our car worked well there and he made the most of the opportunities that came his way. We got the pit stop calls right and the pit crew did a fantastic job, so that every time Fernando came into pit lane, we either gained places or extended the lead still further. For Fernando, it’s great to be leading the championship, something I would have not expected just a few weeks ago.

    “I certainly wasn’t expecting to have one driver leading the championship. From quite early on in testing, we realised we had quite a few issues we needed to sort out. Everyone at the factory has been working hard at that, as we still have a long way to go. I think our dry qualifying performance is still around 8 tenths off the best while we want to be the best ourselves. Damp low grip conditions suit our car and flatter some of the issues we have with the F2012 at the moment. You could see that in Melbourne on Friday and again in the race in Malaysia.”

    While the Scuderia’s Spanish double world champion has his name at the top of the classification, team-mate Felipe Massa has yet to score a point, struggling more with the car balance. “The car is quite difficult to drive and Fernando has managed to get the most out of it, while with Felipe, we have struggled to find the right balance to keep him happy,” admitted Fry. “In addition, in Malaysia, we had Felipe on intermediates after the red flag but we had a lot of understeer and so we took the gamble of an additional pit stop which did not work out. The fact the tyres were only graining and not worn out was about the only call we got wrong from the pit wall at the last race. It was a set-back for Felipe, one of a few unfortunate circumstances for him.”

    “If I was asked to rate the overall performance of the Scuderia so far, I’d mark it differently depending on different sections of the company,” continued Fry. “The team, the mechanics at the track have worked very well: in Melbourne we had the quickest pit stops and in Malaysia the speed of the pit crew and the strategy saw us gain position or time on others every time we pitted. However, ranking the actual performance of the package, I’d rate it much lower. Another plus is the way the team is responding, dealing with the stresses of trying to play catch-up. The Manufacturing department, working on some of the more aggressive requests we’ve made, has responded very well. So, it’s been a great team effort, but we haven’t done a good job in getting the car out on track to be quickest from the start.”

    Technical development of a Formula 1 car usually moves along two paths: the first one follows a plan set out even as the car is first being designed and built, while the second feeds off lessons learned during testing and races. At the moment, because of the performance shortfall, the Scuderia is also having to move down a third path, which involves trying to speed up development and introduce updates earlier than planned. “We are constantly working on improving the issues we have,” said Fry. “New parts are coming through and we are trying to get them to the race track as quickly as possible – We will have five updates for China, some are quite visible others less so. Then there will be a bigger upgrade package for Spain. It would be nice to have them earlier, but we have already brought forward some parts we were developing for Spain and we should have them in China.”

    Naturally, Fry’s main focus is within his own team, but he can allow himself a quick assessment of the F1 hierarchy after the opening back-to-back races. “I was slightly suprised by Red Bull’s comparative lack of pace. McLaren were relatively quick but I would have put these two teams the other way round if you’d asked me a month ago. Mercedes also seem quick, but they have similar rear tyre degradation to the past, so while they are good in qualifying, their race pace drops away and Lotus is the other team that has done a good job, looking quick from the very first test in Jerez.”

    There have been eight Chinese Grands Prix to date and Scuderia Ferrari has won three of them, starting with Rubens Barrichello’s victory in the event’s inaugural year, 2004. Then, 2006 and 2007 saw victories for Michael Schumacher and Kimi Raikkonen respectively. Fernando Alonso won from pole in 2005, although not at the wheel of a red car and the Spaniard was also on the podium for the two following years in second place. Felipe Massa has also enjoyed the view from the spectacular podium at the Shanghai International Circuit, coming home third in 2007 and doing one better the following year.

    The Shanghai circuit is just under five and a half kilometres in length and the facility itself is built on an epic scale as a testament to China’s desire to be the biggest economic powerhouse on the globe. It is one of designer Hermann Tilke’s more challenging track layouts, with many long corners that generate high lateral g-forces, so good overall balance and stability under braking are important aspects of the car package. Pirelli is providing its Soft and Medium compound tyres, but the smooth surface means tyre wear is not usually a problem here, although with few races held during the season, the track can be rather dirty for the first day of practice. “Shanghai is a good mixture,” confirms Fry. “There are long low speed corners where you need a good front end and there’s a requirement to brake and turn in at the same time, so carrying speed through the first corner into the second is particularly interesting. There are some reasonably high speed corners too and a 1.3 kilometre straight with the DRS zone at the end of it should make it interesting for the race.” The Chinese Grand Prix has often been affected by rain and no doubt that would suit the plans of the Scuderia, given Alonso’s wet weather performance in Malaysia…
    http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formu...way-to-go.aspx


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  10. #1510
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    5 updates for china some visible...some not!!!!!

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jas View Post
    5 updates for china some visible...some not!!!!!
    Yes that's great, let's hope they work. Some updates will be visible as mentioned by Fry, I will be keeping my eyes peeled on Thursday when the photos start to flood in.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

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  13. #1513
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    http://www.formula1.com/default.html
    i also looked at weather forecast in China and saw rain conditions.According to formal site of formula1 there will be a wet Friday,dry Saturday and then again wet Sunday.I prefer dry rather than wet on Friday because it should help us to test new parts we have.It's important to see they work as expected or not.But i hope another rain race would be nice until we close the gap.Meanwhile it has no guaranty that we will win all wet races

  14. #1514
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    And the fightback begins!
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

  15. #1515
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    if we are to get our act together soon.. McLaren is going to be kicking themselves for letting us win the last race.
    Forza Ferrari... we can do it.
    we're number one

  16. #1516
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    Well pat Fry says they are 8 / 10's back at this point. If they get back 4 to 6 / 10's then they are there! They will get there! Keep the Faith!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  17. #1517
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    I'm going to be doing a rain dance every saturday night from now until the end of the season!
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  18. #1518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    I'm going to be doing a rain dance every saturday night from now until the end of the season!
    Well.. only until we get some speed into the car and become competitive in the dry.. right?

  19. #1519
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    everyone has to remember, this alleged 4 tenths which we are spose to gain from the updates may result in no order change on the SATURDAY (will prove more valuable in the race), as our competitors are not going to be standing still, lotus chief engineer said that he is hoping the upgrades for China to bring around 2 tenths of a second!!! keeping the faith however, come on massa!!

  20. #1520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Well.. only until we get some speed into the car and become competitive in the dry.. right?
    Caught me in a little Freudian slip there lol!
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  21. #1521
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    So some of the upgrades meant for Spain we will see in China. Very good news! I can´t wait.

  22. #1522
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    Good post there, thanks for that. 5 updates. That's certainly a start. Hopefully they will actually make an instant difference. I know its still early, but you don't want to dig a hole too deep to get out of. That's what happened last year.

  23. #1523
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkircher View Post
    Good post there, thanks for that. 5 updates. That's certainly a start. Hopefully they will actually make an instant difference. I know its still early, but you don't want to dig a hole too deep to get out of. That's what happened last year.
    Luckily the team Ferrari are chasing right now haven't won a WCC in so long that they don't know how to win it
    But seriously, good that there is no dominant team right now.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  24. #1524
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    Luckily the team Ferrari are chasing right now haven't won a WCC in so long that they don't know how to win it
    But seriously, good that there is no dominant team right now.
    Too true, McLaren always seem to mess up when things are going in their favor.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I could never ever understand this rule..I mean, in motor racing..how do you run a successful innovative race car....without testing??????
    How do you run any race car without testing, now that I mentioned it!!!!???!!!
    Although it's been a while, let me help you understand this important and must have rule.
    Innovations don't come threw testing. Innovations come threw planning, designing and inspiration of the engineers.
    Threw testing the only thing you do is fine tune and readjust what was originally designed and also you test a a lot of different concepts (designs)

    If tests were free for all, then in the long term, the total annual budget of a team would be 10-20% designing - redesigning and 80-90% testing.
    So teams with a lot of money, not only they would invest more at designing (in comparison with low budget teams) but they would also invest a lot on fine tune their designs threw testings.
    This way, f1 would no longer continue to be single seater races, but money races (it still is). The low budget teams wouldn't stand a chance in front of hi budget team, and this would lead to poor quality (that we almost have).
    In the long term it would also lead to low budget teams abandon races with only 2-3-4 teams staying.
    This rule is a great rule and they should never remove it, instead they should go on into this direction. For example they should remove all these extreme aero-$%^&&-s at once.

    Look at this thread for example, are you sure we talk about f1 racing?
    Because sometimes with all this gas exhaust flow in the rear and the wind entering threw a hole in the back wind and going threw the chasis and exiting from the front wind and under the chasis.....and....and.... i thing we talk about aerospace engineering. I think we talk about aircrafts!

    What is Ferrari trying to develop, a race car or an AirBus?

    How on earth will a driver fight a car with more ''aeroholes''???
    The drivers are begging the engineers for more and more ''aeroholes'' instead of developing their driving!

    So they should keep into this direction and reduce even more costs that have nothing to do with race driving, and give teams and drivers without money for ''aeroholes'' a chance.
    Do you know how many talented young boys are out there, but they dont have the sponsors (money) that the teams need (to develop the ''aeroholes'') so they stay out of f1, F3, F2000 and so on?? And on the other hand do you know how many drivers have been in f1 on the grid that had money (from their sponsors) and no driving skills at all?

    Sorry for the of topic. But my opinion is that we must understand what we see. If ferrari manages to develop good ''aeroholes'' fernando wins, but if not he must beg for luck and rain to win 1-2 races in the season because aeroholes car are not only unbeatable, they are also not possible to get close to them because your front ''aerohole'' will lose pressure and.....come on.

    We are here begging for aeropackages instead of race fighting.
    So the rule is fine and it must be worked further. (I hope we don't have fights again.)

    On topic now, i notice most of you are happy that ferrari brings so many updates. But I am not. I worry if it reveals that they are somehow lost and desperate or a sign they found something good. Lets hope its the second one.
    But in general at races a lot of updates is almost always a bad sign because it reveals how far behind you are and even if updates work since they are a lot you need more time to become competitive and eventually fight for wins.
    But again its ferrari we talk about, everything is possible. (Do you imagine Q3 1-2)
    Here’s to the Crazy Ones... Because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.
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  26. #1526
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    But seriously, good that there is no dominant team right now.
    I think we have one.2 races 1-2 at Q and good pace at dry. What else do you want? Perhaps not so dominant. But its clear ahead.
    Here’s to the Crazy Ones... Because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.
    Think different - ThereAreNoGods

  27. #1527
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    The problem with partisan posters is that they always neglect to realize that every team is trying to gain 0.4 seconds. Some will gain more, some will gain less, but the differential performance of the respective cars will never be static, nor will the track conditions and drivers. Gaining 0.4 seconds on Macca likely means finding a 0.8 second gain...Quite a tall order!

  28. #1528
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    ^^ Bold statement from Pat Fry then

    Ferrari will bring five updates to the Chinese Grand Prix to try to narrow the gap to the front of the field, which technical director Pat Fry estimates is around 0.8s in dry conditions.

  29. #1529
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    Ferrari is finding the Setup. That is their biggest step. Drag and downforce are the issue to figure out with this new shape. I think the low nose of the McLaren is allowing them to cut through the air better and have less variation in Front / Rear downforce. The varying pitch of the high nosed race cars seems to be problematic and not consistent. We are seeing Red Bull, Ferrari and the rest with high positioned nose cone shapes having grip problems.

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

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    Updates will work.

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