Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[gazoz]

From Virgilio. They're usually spot on.

Ferrari, the jump to quality or the internal cleansing starts.

At Mugello it's expected that Ferrari gains a minimal of 0.5 of a second against it's rivals, regardless if the other teams have made gains of their own.
Side pods are overhauled in designed to change the position of the radiators which has been identified as one of the flaws slowing down the cars.
Pullrod in the front will most likely remain as it's proving to be effective.
Original exhaust design aimed low will be further tested.
Alonso is showing signs of impateince.
Fry's comment of changing design method wasn't digested as it was his responsibility since his appointment.
Ferrari presently in a worse position now than when identifying the scapegoat Costa, who Sunday wouldn't stop laughing.
If 2012 continues as presently, Fry and Tombazis severely risk their positions.

http://sport.virgilio.it/motori/form...repulisti.html

i actually don't think Fry can be held responsible fully for this years car as he only came in mid last year (is that correct?) but cleansing is maybe whats needed elsewhere

[Omegablue]

i actually don't think Fry can be held responsible fully for this years car as he only came in mid last year (is that correct?) but cleansing is maybe whats needed elsewhere

He's comment set him up. It was an internal matter that needed better assessment with management before he opened his mouth publically. Comes across too much like he's trying to dodge Luca's radar.

[FrankAlfa]

Pat Fry was anounced by Ferrari as being hired by the team on January 4, 2011. So he has been there more than emough time to have the whole understanding of the F2012 Design! He and Tombazis are on the hot seat, as is Domenicali!

Virgilil.it/mortori/form summary seems VERY true and clear. Tombazis is in the hottest seat as is Domenicali. The team is not cohesive enough and Domenicali is not a strong enough leader. As far as Pat Fry goes, I don't think he is a good Technical Director. Maybe a good part Engineer working on a specific part of the race car but he does not seem up to the task of being the Technical Director / Technical Team leader for the Race Car like say a Ross Brawn.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Omegablue]

Whatever the outcome, please, no Briatore.

[FerrariF60]

one thing's for sure, if this car does NOT deliver by let's say spain, HEADS will start rolling at Ferrari believe you me....i think Tombazis will be the first to go followed by stefano (this guy's the worst spineless jelly fish i've ever seen)....i've never liked him as a leader from the first day he put foot in Ferrari paddock; as far as Pat Fry, he may be gone too...like FrankAlfa said i don't think he's got what it takes to be techinal director; those SHOES are way too big for him to FILL.....

[Omegablue]

Who would then be the replacements?

And if Fry goes, then surely the ex-McLaren crew he filter last year might also follow him?

[FrankAlfa]

Don't know?! They have to shop the Aero Space industry and find qualified people from other racing disciplines. Remember Todt was from Rallying & Sports Cars! There are an awful lot of qualified people in this world and MANY Race Car Engineers to draw from!

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Jose Lorca]

From Virgilio. They're usually spot on.

Ferrari, the jump to quality or the internal cleansing starts.

At Mugello it's expected that Ferrari gains a minimal of 0.5 of a second against it's rivals, regardless if the other teams have made gains of their own.
Side pods are overhauled in designed to change the position of the radiators which has been identified as one of the flaws slowing down the cars.
Pullrod in the front will most likely remain as it's proving to be effective.
Original exhaust design aimed low will be further tested.
Alonso is showing signs of impateince.
Fry's comment of changing design method wasn't digested as it was his responsibility since his appointment.
Ferrari presently in a worse position now than when identifying the scapegoat Costa, who Sunday wouldn't stop laughing.
If 2012 continues as presently, Fry and Tombazis severely risk their positions.

http://sport.virgilio.it/motori/form...repulisti.html

Thanks for posting this.

To predict we will close the gap by such a big margin, we must be very confident that our updates will be much more effective than everyone else's. So if everything works then in Spain we should be at worst 0.3 off the pace.

[Omegablue]

Don't know?! They have to shop the Aero Space industry and find qualified people from other racing disciplines. Remember Todt was from Rallying & Sports Cars! There are an awful lot of qualified people in this world and MANY Race Car Engineers to draw from!

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

Very true. I think Todt was in charge of Peugeot Leman type cars?

[Chicane]

The problem with firing people is you lose cohesiveness within the team, its just like starting over again..
I think tombazis made the car to radical and too difficult to understand i think he over did it..whereas last year and the previous years its been more of an conventional design specially last years f150.
The Question is, is it good to hire another different set of people and start over again a new philosophy? or stick with this people and give them a chance to prove their worth?

[FrankAlfa]

All we have to do is look at Williams this year compared to last year and then we can look at Sauber, Mercedes, Lotus (Renault); all revamped their teams and are producing top flight Race Cars! That is proof enough to say Teams can delete and add people to make the team function better. Mercedes is the best example of a team going after the very best key people (Bell, Costa, Willis, etc.) to greatly improve the team especially when you have such strong leader in Ross Brawn. They maybe the strongest team this year in the end! Ferrari has shown a lack of maturity that I never would have thought possible in designing the F2012. I was a very strong critic of Aldo Costa in the past but it was a very bad move to let him go and also a very bad move to not go after Geoff Willis as well.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Chicane]

if you analyse it say mercedes: they got willis and costa but this two guys works for ross brawn before aldo costa at ferrari at geof willis at Honda so ross knows how this guys works no adjustment needed.

Sauber i think the only departure was their TD i think that was mr.Key

williams: mike coughlan was already there since last year but admittedly he did well on the design of that williams

renault: No new addition as far as i know so nothing changes in their approach

as for ferrari pat fry took over only in the middle of last year as a full time TD since costa resign so his philosophy is just really started
this year..so far i think his very meticulous and organised.
as for tombazis..hmm..i think he overdid it maybe because of pressure since ferrari hasnt won anything since '08
hamashima did well i think in his job in solving the warm up issues
and the most impressive improvement was the pit guys, i know they got someone from merch..forgot his name but he did well cause as of now ferrari are the fastest pit guys..atleast for now we are fast in some category..

[Chicane]

so the problem imo are the people in the design..but lets wait for those barca upgrades and see if those people there should stay or go..
overall if you look at it with all this mess and problem alonso is 3rd on the classification i think better than his point haul after 3 rounds last year.
of course we cant be too happy with all this crap that is happening cause we expect a lot from them..but lets give them credit for fighting as a team..

[Elvis]

Very true. I think Todt was in charge of Peugeot Leman type cars?

I remember he was team principal of Peugeot F1 Team just before joining Ferrari.

[Omegablue]

I still feel the design problem lies when trying to copy Red Bull for their 2011.
From 1997 to 2010, the Ferrari's have been a constant evolution of each other with the low nose and short rear. And the numbers in those season say the team was always competitive.
Fine 2005 was the tyre issue, and the 2009 restart year was rough. But they stuck with that design and nearly won it in 2010.
Then they changed it last year, and were even very conservative with innovation.
And again they it changed for the F2012, and it's gotten worse.

The more they restart the design structure, the more solutions from previous years are lost.

McLaren just continues to evolve their aged old design theory, which is making it easier for them to fix mid season issues and remain competitve. Ferrari should have done the same.

[Omegablue]

I remember he was team principal of Peugeot F1 Team just before joining Ferrari.

I just wiki, then cut and paste.

Jean Todt, Director of Peugeot Talbot Sport from 1982 to 1993

In 1982, he withdrew from competing as a co-driver and was appointed Director of Racing for Peugeot by the then CEO Jean Boillot at a time when PSA Peugeot Citroën was experiencing major financial difficulties as well as image problems. He applied his abilities as a meticulous organiser and strategist to the creation of Peugeot Talbot Sport, which he set up to spearhead the French firm’s return to competition. He was the mastermind behind the Peugeot 205 Turbo 16, Peugeot 405 Turbo 16 and Peugeot 905.

In 1984, Peugeot returned to the World Rally Championship and, in 1985 and 1986, the Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 Group B driven first by Timo Salonen then by Juha Kankkunen obtained stunning results (back-to-back manufacturers’ World Championship titles). Sadly however, in 1986 Henri Toivonen died driving a Lancia Delta during the Tour de Corse rally and the FIA decided to drop the Group B class as being too fast and too dangerous.

In 1987, Todt adapted the 205 Turbo 16 to off-road rallies with the aim of competing in the showcase Paris-Dakar Rally He became the centre of attention in the 1989 Paris-Dakar when he tossed a coin to decide between his two drivers Ari Vatanen and Jacky Ickx to ensure that their rivalry would not lead to one of them quitting and cost the team victory. From 1987 to 1990, he enjoyed dazzling success with four successive victories in the Paris-Dakar with Ari Vatanen and Juha Kankkunen. Peugeot subsequently decided to withdraw from off-road rallying and left the field open to Citroën who won the event with the Citroën ZX Rallye-Raid, based on the Peugeot 405 chassis.

In 1992, he won the Le Mans 24 Hours with the Peugeot 905 driven by Derek Warwick, Yannick Dalmas and Mark Blundell and, in 1993, again at Le Mans, three 905 cars driven by Geoff Brabham, Christophe Bouchut and Eric Hélary swept the field with a 1-2-3 victory.

[Chicane]

When Rory Byrne Left it was a struggle with the design team at ferrari.

[Chicane]

Jean todt is now the FIA president whereas i believe he should have been the Ferrari president.

[wacc]

Domenicali:

We will have a few new things in Mugello, but we will take right up to the last available day prior to the Spanish Grand Prix to introduce the very latest updates.

ferrari.com

[F2002]

From Virgilio. They're usually spot on.

Ferrari, the jump to quality or the internal cleansing starts.

At Mugello it's expected that Ferrari gains a minimal of 0.5 of a second against it's rivals, regardless if the other teams have made gains of their own.
Side pods are overhauled in designed to change the position of the radiators which has been identified as one of the flaws slowing down the cars.
Pullrod in the front will most likely remain as it's proving to be effective.
Original exhaust design aimed low will be further tested.
Alonso is showing signs of impateince.
Fry's comment of changing design method wasn't digested as it was his responsibility since his appointment.
Ferrari presently in a worse position now than when identifying the scapegoat Costa, who Sunday wouldn't stop laughing.
If 2012 continues as presently, Fry and Tombazis severely risk their positions.

http://sport.virgilio.it/motori/form...repulisti.html

Slight correction - they don't say that they want to gain at least 0.5 seconds regardless of what the other teams do, but that they want to gain at least 0.5 seconds and hope that the others don't make any notable gains which could raise the bar even further:

L'obiettivo è recuperare almeno mezzo secondo secco, nella speranza che i rivali non progrediscano troppo alzando ulteriormente l'asticella.

[Hornet]

When Rory Byrne Left it was a struggle with the design team at ferrari.

Rory Bryne wanted to retire. I believe he's living in Thailand now.

Its not easy being involve in F1 as he would need to follow the team travel around the world attending all the GPs. And even off season, they need to be working on the car back at the factory. It takes a lot of commitment and as you get older, it becomes more difficult.

[Red_Diamond]

there are more flip flops here than a slipper shop...

I think the changes Ferrari have made are good, even Montezemolo is happy, it takes time for cohesion
between old and new methods to set. In some cases it can take many months or years. When someone joins in
2011/12, their influence won't be felt until 2013/14. Mclaren took 4 years to get their methodologies
up to scratch and now they are reaping the rewards. Why aren't Ferrari allowed time to settle in?
I don't understand people who jump up and down wanting heads to roll when they don't even know
the internal structure. You can't throw a person from another team or industry be it aerospace or whatever into F1 and
expect instant results.

If being a Ferrari fan has taught me anything, it is success is never easy. It takes hell of a lot of work. Success in sport does't come at
the click of a finger no matter how long a team has participated, past success counts for nothing in the
present.

Fans have an emotional investment and that's about it. OUR feelings don't come first for Ferrari. I wasn't at all keen
on Alonso, but I can now understand why Ferrari signed him. Everything you feel is probably 100% worse for
the team, but they're the ones who are putting in 24/7 shifts to get the car working, so how about a little understanding rather
than throwing names under the bus because you don't like them.

[giodap]

i agree. when ferrari said last year that the f150 would be scrapped. we all got excited. we all got excited because ferrari were going to stop being conservative, they would now be innovative and radical. we would no longer be the team copying, but we would be the team to be copied... well, so far it has far from worked. but hey ho! as a ferrari fan, im just glad that we have finally built our OWN car. not copy the mCbulls! wether it be this season or the next. we WILL come good! the car has potential and we will unlock it

[AvantiAlonsoWDC]

Rory Bryne wanted to retire. I believe he's living in Thailand now.

Its not easy being involve in F1 as he would need to follow the team travel around the world attending all the GPs. And even off season, they need to be working on the car back at the factory. It takes a lot of commitment and as you get older, it becomes more difficult.

I'm not sure about that, I think he only retired from the F1 division but he still is a consultant for Ferrari's road car division, so hopefully it won't be much problem to help sometime the guys at the F1 aero design office

[steelstallions]

They officially say some small parts, nothing massive.
But then Dom said they will be looking to bring the original acer exhaust as soon as possible, maybe even next race (Bahrain).
So we shall see.

Cheers for that.

[Omegablue]

Slight correction - they don't say that they want to gain at least 0.5 seconds regardless of what the other teams do, but that they want to gain at least 0.5 seconds and hope that the others don't make any notable gains which could raise the bar even further:

L'obiettivo è recuperare almeno mezzo secondo secco, nella speranza che i rivali non progrediscano troppo alzando ulteriormente l'asticella.

Noted. Thanks.

[Omegablue]

i agree. when ferrari said last year that the f150 would be scrapped. we all got excited. we all got excited because ferrari were going to stop being conservative, they would now be innovative and radical. we would no longer be the team copying, but we would be the team to be copied... well, so far it has far from worked. but hey ho! as a ferrari fan, im just glad that we have finally built our OWN car. not copy the mCbulls! wether it be this season or the next. we WILL come good! the car has potential and we will unlock it

Aside from the forward pull-rod, which Minardi last used in 2001, there really isn't anything radical about the new car. There's the required step to maintain the high nose alla RedBull, and the exhaust positioning. And the oil-cooling scope at the top was McLaren's idea from last year, which they've scraped.

Is anything this car is just as conservative as the previous one.

[Nova]

Really a tough one when things dont work out the way expected. I did not expect it!
I guess theres only one way to go with this car, as it cant get any slower...can it?
I was against sacking Costa. I felt he held more together than people realize.
To hear he was laughing is a real sticker. Which I really dont believe...well, mabey inside
he was laughing.
I dont see how Ferrari thinks the front susp is working?? I mean, its not.

[Omegablue]

I dont see how Ferrari thinks the front susp is working?? I mean, its not.

The front tyres are lasting longer and warming up quicker than last year.

[FrankAlfa]

I guess all the angry and frustration in the world won't change the situation. I will just have faith that the Ferrari Team will work through this difficult time and gel better in the future. I am sad about so many of the problems they are facing, even after quite a few key personnel changes to the team but alas, they have much more work and need much more time to improve. It seems not to long ago, people were angry that Ferrari were winning year after year and they seemed to do no wrong. They are human I guess and we have to support them and have faith in them most of all during the difficult times. They can lead again someday. We only have to look at McLaren, other than Hamilton's one Championship win, it has been a very long time since they won anything the Drivers and Constructor's Championships. They struggled for many years and even struggled when Newey was their Chief Designer. Ferrari have to find their feet again and work on improving. They will get there but it will just take time.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!