Thread: Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

  1. #1741
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    I guess all the angry and frustration in the world won't change the situation. I will just have faith that the Ferrari Team will work through this difficult time and gel better in the future. I am sad about so many of the problems they are facing, even after quite a few key personnel changes to the team but alas, they have much more work and need much more time to improve. It seems not to long ago, people were angry that Ferrari were winning year after year and they seemed to do no wrong. They are human I guess and we have to support them and have faith in them most of all during the difficult times. They can lead again someday. We only have to look at McLaren, other than Hamilton's one Championship win, it has been a very long time since they won anything the Drivers and Constructor's Championships. They struggled for many years and even struggled when Newey was their Chief Designer. Ferrari have to find their feet again and work on improving. They will get there but it will just take time.

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    Well said.

    I just want to add that around 1996, fans and the media wanted Jean Todt out, and the Juventus administration at the time was lining itself up to take a managerial role at Ferrari. (Even though I'm a Juve fan, thankfully that Media invention didn't happen!)
    Was even worse in 1999 after that wet race disaster that cost Irvine the title.

    Then when the titles came in, Todt and Brawn were in the running for President in most countries!

    The reality was that Jean many times said that to build a long cycle of titles, everything had to be rebuilt. And that's starting with the individual work mentality at the factory.

    However, the team was built. There was no need to change the structure after a bad season (2009) and further change it after a bad race in 2010, and again change it again in 2011. And they want to change it again!!!

  2. #1742
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    Exclusive: Ferrari aero Agathangelou again! The English will have the task of integrating data from wind tunnel and the CFD simulation.

    http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/171...ri-a-maranello

  3. #1743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegablue View Post
    Aside from the forward pull-rod, which Minardi last used in 2001, there really isn't anything radical about the new car. There's the required step to maintain the high nose alla RedBull, and the exhaust positioning. And the oil-cooling scope at the top was McLaren's idea from last year, which they've scraped.

    Is anything this car is just as conservative as the previous one.
    i was refering to the front pull rod, the exhaust (which isnt looking too good at the mo) and the huge gap above the front wing which seems to be bigger than everyone else's. just saying that im glad ferrari have taken a gamble. the old car (2009 - 2011) wasnt working, the only thing they could do was to risk it. win or lose, im glad they've gone for it

  4. #1744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hombre B View Post
    Exclusive: Ferrari aero Agathangelou again! The English will have the task of integrating data from wind tunnel and the CFD simulation.

    http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/171...ri-a-maranello
    Well his CV isnt that impressive....last 2 years working for HRT....

  5. #1745
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    it's not the problem of HRT but the number of teams he left in the past years if he's good he would still be in RB!

  6. #1746
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    Quote Originally Posted by medeni73 View Post
    Well his CV isnt that impressive....last 2 years working for HRT....
    What Ferrari need now is a creative guy to help Tombazis assess the situation.Its actually good that he has been into many teams.He knows how each team works.He may help ferrari in its Restructuring...and HRT is bad not because of its Engineers,its because they dont have an money to work on their ideas or concepts...

  7. #1747
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    Maybe Ben Agathangelou can also have a close look at the Mercedes cars front wing.
    I cannot get over their speed compared to Button [also Merc engine] during the opening laps in China.
    Rosberg,Shumi and Button all had used soft tyres at the start yet Rosberg managed to build a 6.865 second lead by lap 10!!! [On Button]
    Could he be stalling the front wing at the straights on it's own without using DRS?
    rosberg-and-michael-schumacher-lead-the-r.jpg
    Last edited by Dino; 19th April 2012 at 10:58.

  8. #1748
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    This is what i mean;
    LAP............BUTTON....................ROSBERg.. ..........................GAP
    1...........1:47.732 (SU)[3].........1:45.632 (SU)[1]...........+2.100 +2.100
    2...........1:44.619 [3]...............1:43.934 [1].................+0.685 +2.785
    3...........1:44.128 [3]...............1:43.610 [1].................+0.518 +3.303
    4...........1:43.922 [3]...............1:43.730 [1].................+0.192 +3.495
    5...........1:43.965 [3]...............1:43.544 [1].................+0.421 +3.916
    6...........1:44.120 [3]...............1:43.940 [1].................+0.180 +4.096
    7...........1:44.056 [3]...............1:43.705 [1].................+0.351 +4.447
    8...........1:44.389 [3]...............1:43.650 [1].................+0.739 +5.186
    9...........1:44.346 [3]...............1:43.579 [1].................+0.767 +5.953
    10.........1:44.604 [3]...............1:43.692 [1].................+0.912 +6.865
    Last edited by Dino; 19th April 2012 at 11:37.

  9. #1749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    Maybe Ben Agathangelou can also have a close look at the Mercedes cars front wing.
    I cannot get over their speed compared to Button [also Merc engine] during the opening laps in China.
    Rosberg,Shumi and Button all had used soft tyres at the start yet Rosberg managed to build a 6.865 second lead by lap 10!!! [On Button]
    Could he be stalling the front wing at the straights on it's own without using DRS?
    rosberg-and-michael-schumacher-lead-the-r.jpg
    Even in Qualifying, they were nowhere near the quickest car in a straight line. 6kph slower than the Sauber. Only 2kph quicker than the McLaren.

  10. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    Even in Qualifying, they were nowhere near the quickest car in a straight line. 6kph slower than the Sauber. Only 2kph quicker than the McLaren.
    That's not really a good guideline though, Merc probably were running more rear wing and still very quick on the straights due to the stalling wing. So they get the benefit of more downforce in the corners and top end speed on straights. The cool temps helped them a lot, they warm the tyres up quicker than most I guess and should ruin them quicker if the temps are higher
    Forza Ferrari

  11. #1751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    Even in Qualifying, they were nowhere near the quickest car in a straight line. 6kph slower than the Sauber. Only 2kph quicker than the McLaren.
    Agreed, but that is mainly gearing.
    The challenge is getting to the end of the straight in the shortest possible time, not achieving top speed.
    One car can reach it's max speed [300kph] in say 10 seconds while the other may reach [310 kph] in 10.5 seconds

  12. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    Even in Qualifying, they were nowhere near the quickest car in a straight line. 6kph slower than the Sauber. Only 2kph quicker than the McLaren.
    Ste,this has nothing to do with Qualifying,where everybody was using DRS all around the track.
    It's about the leading car running with a stalled front wing where they can gain time.Remember the leading car can never use DRS!!!

    Like Greig said ''Merc probably were running more rear wing[I would say both wings] and still very quick on the straights due to the stalling wing[wings]. So they get the benefit of more downforce in the corners and top end speed on straights.''
    I have been looking all over to find the trap speeds during the race but can't find any,can anyone help?
    Last edited by Dino; 19th April 2012 at 12:28.

  13. #1753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    Ste,this has nothing to do with Qualifying,where everybody was using DRS all around the track.
    It's about the leading car running with a stalled front wing where they can gain time.Remember the leading car can never use DRS!!!

    Like Greig said ''Merc probably were running more rear wing[I would say both wings] and still very quick on the straights due to the stalling wing[wings]. So they get the benefit of more downforce in the corners and top end speed on straights.''
    I have been looking all over to find the trap speeds during the race but can't find any,can anyone help?
    Link.
    This season will be the "Rosso Corsa" season!
    Fernando is FAster than anyone.


  14. #1754
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    Quote Originally Posted by medeni73 View Post
    Well his CV isnt that impressive....last 2 years working for HRT....
    I don't know who is Agathangelou but being in HRT is not meant that guy is not pro. For example Geoff Willis worked for HRT in 2011 & this season he is working for Mercedes.

  15. #1755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    That's not really a good guideline though, Merc probably were running more rear wing and still very quick on the straights due to the stalling wing. So they get the benefit of more downforce in the corners and top end speed on straights. The cool temps helped them a lot, they warm the tyres up quicker than most I guess and should ruin them quicker if the temps are higher
    No, I completely agree. Their top speed could be more than anyone else's but they choose to add downforce and sacrifice some of it since it can't be used in the race.

    Just pointing out that their advantage wasn't in a straight line.

    I expect them to excel in Qualifying in Bahrain due to the two long and two medium length straights on the circuit, DRS will be activated a lot over the course of the lap. During the race, I'm not so sure though. I think the heat will eat their tyres and they'll go backwards, letting the two Ferrari's past!

  16. #1756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    Ste,this has nothing to do with Qualifying,where everybody was using DRS all around the track.
    It's about the leading car running with a stalled front wing where they can gain time.Remember the leading car can never use DRS!!!

    Like Greig said ''Merc probably were running more rear wing[I would say both wings] and still very quick on the straights due to the stalling wing[wings]. So they get the benefit of more downforce in the corners and top end speed on straights.''
    I have been looking all over to find the trap speeds during the race but can't find any,can anyone help?
    Their front wing only stalls when the DRS is active and since they didn't once use the DRS in the race, their front wing wouldn't have stalled at all, giving no benefit. Their system only helps them in qualifying and in the race when they can use the DRS behind another car.

  17. #1757
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    Good to hear Ferrari have another Aero Engineer on board. They must continue to gather skilled minds to develop their race cars. I see their need to use the "Back Wash" from the Sidepod Air Flow to aid downforce but they have big Drag Issue problem that needs to be addressed first. I think their biggest problem is that the Sidepods act as the Crash Structure and it is hard to change them without having to Re-Crash test the race car. I think the old days of a main crash cell have changed and the Sidepod is no longer just an enclosure for the Radiator and Exhaust System. In there design process of the Sidepods, I would have made them lower and reduced drag. I would have also would have mounted the radiators and exhaust as low as possible to lower the center of gravity. The front wing endplates should work even more to funnel air from the outer edge of the front wheels inward, toward the center vanes of the nose cone. Also they have to reduce the surface area of the front wing and yet have greater downforce.

    I see many things that could have and should have been changed during the Design process but now it is rather difficult to change the race car given the Safety Constraints and features built into the Design for structural rigidity. There are limitations that will hinder the advancement of this race car and I am not too positive that much can be done to vastly improve the race car. Things like Setup, Camber, Caster, Pick Up points of the Suspension, Exterior and Interior Wings & Vanes can be added / deleted to alter flow, Internal packaging of the Radiators & Exhaust, Etc. can all be adjusted to gain speed but there are limits.

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  18. #1758
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    Does anyone know Pat Fry's email?

  19. #1759
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    Quote Originally Posted by croALOfanclub View Post
    it's not the problem of HRT but the number of teams he left in the past years if he's good he would still be in RB!
    Yeah but he's a Scorpio!!

    I'm still laughing that the article even made mention of that lol....
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  20. #1760
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    DRS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    Even in Qualifying, they were nowhere near the quickest car in a straight line. 6kph slower than the Sauber. Only 2kph quicker than the McLaren.
    Top speed had only to do with gearing.

    The Merc reached 313kph and was maxed out on the 7th gear 50% into the straight.
    Sauber reached their top speed later but it was higher.

    They geared the car for the race but could still own quali due to their DDRS.

    Quali is still important but since Merc is so strong there they d will qualify high even if they put gearing and other stuff(downforce) on for maximum race pace instead of a compromise that other teams has to do they benefit hugely. Think Vettel. 11th in quali. He could have great race pace but would not stand a chance anyway since he could not pass or make maximum use of his speed.

    That is why DRS didnt work in the race either since cars almost reached top speed before they could engage it. They did not have much use for it.

    The DDRS might help in other areas too. To stall the diffuser better etc.

  21. #1761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    Their front wing only stalls when the DRS is active and since they didn't once use the DRS in the race, their front wing wouldn't have stalled at all, giving no benefit. Their system only helps them in qualifying and in the race when they can use the DRS behind another car.
    Yes, but dont they also have a hole in their nose? Noone really knows what that does. The theory I saw stated the holes
    in the rear wing contribute to stalling the front wing..mabey Brawn has something else going on there. I mean, people can
    guess all they want, but Brawn isnt going to release any info that he doesnt have to.

  22. #1762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    Maybe Ben Agathangelou can also have a close look at the Mercedes cars front wing.
    I cannot get over their speed compared to Button [also Merc engine] during the opening laps in China.
    Rosberg,Shumi and Button all had used soft tyres at the start yet Rosberg managed to build a 6.865 second lead by lap 10!!! [On Button]
    Could he be stalling the front wing at the straights on it's own without using DRS?
    rosberg-and-michael-schumacher-lead-the-r.jpg
    I think that Merc has some sort of a collection tank for Air that can supply air to stall the wing even when the Rear wing flap is closed...
    Such a system is easy to build and has good benefits...its pressure activated..when the Pressure below the wing reaches a point lower that the critical pressure of the tank it starts to suck air out of the nozzles below the front wing thus stalling it...

  23. #1763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Yes, but dont they also have a hole in their nose? Noone really knows what that does. The theory I saw stated the holes
    in the rear wing contribute to stalling the front wing..mabey Brawn has something else going on there. I mean, people can
    guess all they want, but Brawn isnt going to release any info that he doesnt have to.
    When the DRS is activated, a small hole on both endplates transports air through a pipe, to the front wing, where it blows specific slots to stall it.

    They tried just a hole in the front wing, that did indeed stall it but it made the car incredibly unbalanced in corners so they removed it. When both the front and rear wings are stalled, the car is stable and of course, DRS isn't activated going into a corner - like the FW Duct previously was.

  24. #1764
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    Some pics from today in Bahrain



















    F2012 Monkey Seat


  25. #1765
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    These pictures show the incredible complexity of a modern race car. Packaging and placement is all important and critical. Certainly to have as much weight as low as possible is also a very big issue for center of gravity and low polar moment. We are not even talking about ballast locations.

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  26. #1766
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    http://kepfeltoltes.hu/120419/fer_ww...toltes.hu_.jpg

    New mini-rear wing on F2012

    via F1Technical forum (@mazdaboy)

  27. #1767
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    So only that mini wing thing is the new feature they've brought for this race?

  28. #1768
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    is it just me or did they tighten that coke bottle shape towards the back even further? in the picture of the acer duct above, i could see "bulges", obviously contours of the exhaust pipes inside the bodywork. not sure if they've been there ever since but its the first time i've seen them that prominent.

  29. #1769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegablue View Post
    So only that mini wing thing is the new feature they've brought for this race?
    that mini wing could be valuable df gain though.

  30. #1770
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladeswing View Post
    is it just me or did they tighten that coke bottle shape towards the back even further? in the picture of the acer duct above, i could see "bulges", obviously contours of the exhaust pipes inside the bodywork. not sure if they've been there ever since but its the first time i've seen them that prominent.
    The F2012 have an even tighter rear section thanks to the pull rod suspension.

    This is the main reason why most team switch to pull rod for the rear suspension. Unfortunately, Ferrari were late thanks to our previous designers.

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