Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[Greig]

Yeah I thought he arrived a while back? of has he been on gardening leave?

[croALOfanclub]

Latest news say NO NEW exhaust until BCN free practice!
But it makes no sense how will they have time to do it in BCN!!!

[F2002]

Latest news say NO NEW exhaust until BCN free practice!
But it makes no sense how will they have time to do it in BCN!!!

If I remember correctly, it was the shape of the sidepods which had to be addressed first (drag issue).

And, again from what I remember reading, provided that they sort that out, they can mount the new exhaust configuration.

So what is being reported makes a lot of sense in a way.

If the digression they made in mid-testing before the start of the championship was significant, we may well see a huge gain after Mugello. I'm patiently optimistic.

[croALOfanclub]

If I remember correctly, it was the shape of the sidepods which had to be addressed first (drag issue).

And, again from what I remember reading, provided that they sort that out, they can mount the new exhaust configuration.

So what is being reported makes a lot of sense in a way.

it makes even less whit what you say!

[F2002]

it makes even less whit what you say!

I know what you mean but each team has its own way of bringing parts for testing.

We don't know where exactly the problems are, it may well be that they are absolutely confident that, once they sort one thing out, the whole rear-end will start to function.

Bear in mind that RB has been interchanging exhaust layouts between races, so perhaps the bigger deal is elsewhere in the surrounding area, and not where the exhausts themselves are.

Only the tests will tell us - and the laptimes of course!

[Hornet]

Latest news say NO NEW exhaust until BCN free practice!
But it makes no sense how will they have time to do it in BCN!!!

I wonder if we're having problems manufacturing the parts or what. Our exhaust has been a big problem from the first week of winter testing, I'm surprise if Ferrari don't immediately address it.

[Greig]

Who says no new exhaust in Mugello? nobody will really know, if we have a new exhaust ready to test then we will see it at Mugello.

[PaulW]

I hope the testing bring a good improvement

[Kingdom Hearts]

Latest news say NO NEW exhaust until BCN free practice!
But it makes no sense how will they have time to do it in BCN!!!

Weird, is not mugello the right place to test it?.

[number 13]

Jason ‏ @Crucial_Xtreme

BlogF1.it says F2012 will have outside exhaust position like at Jerez w/ modified sidepods, new FW & RW & floor.--> http://bit.ly/I2szkV

#F1

If this is true then our team really finds something in those exhausts and want to keep them and pushing things this far.
Kudos to Crucial_Xtreme for the info.

[croALOfanclub]

If this is true then our team really finds something in those exhausts and want to keep them and pushing things this far.
Kudos to Crucial_Xtreme for the info.

in theory it's best solution because biggest amount of gases goes in brake ducts and floor!
whit Sauber/RB/McM like some of the gases goes whit no benefit to downforce!

[Hornet]

in theory it's best solution because biggest amount of gases goes in brake ducts and floor!
whit Sauber/RB/McM like some of the gases goes whit no benefit to downforce!

Actually the Sauber and Red Bull solution seems to be the better one at the moment. What they do is they go in between the diffuser and the wheel, and this seals the diffuser from the side to reduce leakage. This will allow the diffuser's low pressure effect to remove more air from underneath the car.

Ferrari's solution is difficult because you cannot fine tune where the hot gas goes, and if it goes into the brake ducts or the tires, you're overheating them.

[stefa]

the gain that will be provided by the Mugello/Barcelona updates can not be characterized whit accurate number like 0.3 or 0.2,because in theory whit a working exhaust that is still crucial for rear downforce it could allowed team to work whit a wider range of set-up such as softer rear suspension stiffnes that allows better traction and whit better traction out of slow corners you have better top speed at the straights!
So the gain from exhaust may well be around 0,3 but whit set-up options you then have,it could also be 1 second!

edit:word is Ferrari is currently running very stiff rear end whit lover rake due to poorly working exhaust!

From your mouth to Gods ears . Hopefully this will be the case. We'll have to wait couple more days, and than we will see the truth behind F2012 upgardes.

[croALOfanclub]

Actually the Sauber and Red Bull solution seems to be the better one at the moment. What they do is they go in between the diffuser and the wheel, and this seals the diffuser from the side to reduce leakage. This will allow the diffuser's low pressure effect to remove more air from underneath the car.

Ferrari's solution is difficult because you cannot fine tune where the hot gas goes, and if it goes into the brake ducts or the tires, you're overheating them.

yes, i agree! but i was referring on a properly working version of F2012 exhaust!

[wacc]

Actually the Sauber and Red Bull solution seems to be the better one at the moment. What they do is they go in between the diffuser and the wheel, and this seals the diffuser from the side to reduce leakage...

Yeah, from what i've read this allows running more rake. It seemed RedBull was actualy running more rake at Bahrain where they managed to get on top of their exhausts.

[anupa2k]

Ok got it thanks for the reply and one more thing are Ferrari going to stick to pull rod suspension at the front...

[anupa2k]

"For Montmelo (Barcelona) we have to be better. We have to stop depending on others and start depending on ourselves," - Fernando Alonso.

[anupa2k]

The team that performs well at Barcelona will have an upper hand in the championship...

[scuderiafan]

Actually the Sauber and Red Bull solution seems to be the better one at the moment. What they do is they go in between the diffuser and the wheel, and this seals the diffuser from the side to reduce leakage. This will allow the diffuser's low pressure effect to remove more air from underneath the car.

Ferrari's solution is difficult because you cannot fine tune where the hot gas goes, and if it goes into the brake ducts or the tires, you're overheating them.

I think the Sauber and RedBull solution is better on the Sauber and RedBull.

I would like to see the acer ducts which the car was designed with, and which the team saw merit in, to work on it.

[Hombre B]

Test Mugello:

Day 1.: Alonso
Day 2.: Massa
Day 3.: Alonso

http://www.ferrari.com/Italian/Formu...l-mugello.aspx

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Test Mugello:

Day 1.: Alonso
Day 2.: Massa
Day 3.: Alonso

http://www.ferrari.com/Italian/Formu...l-mugello.aspx

Any ideas why it's only 3 days as opposed to the traditional 4?

[Tifoso]

Any ideas why it's only 3 days as opposed to the traditional 4?

They've reserved day 4 for getting drunk over the bad results of days 1-3.

[vcs316]

They've reserved day 4 for getting drunk over the bad results of days 1-3.

Optimistic Optimistic Optimistic is all we can be mate.. Fingers crossed our boys manage to turn the car & this season around

[ferrari1.8t]

I think the Sauber and RedBull solution is better on the Sauber and RedBull.

I would like to see the acer ducts which the car was designed with, and which the team saw merit in, to work on it.

We all would like to see the original design concept of the car and "acer ducts" work. However, if there is a better solution a la redbull and sauber I say we go down that direction. Otherwise we will still be "figuring out the car" well into the season. We need a car that works now, not one that in concept works and may work in a few months if we get it right.

[Hornet]

I think the Sauber and RedBull solution is better on the Sauber and RedBull.

I would like to see the acer ducts which the car was designed with, and which the team saw merit in, to work on it.

The thing is, had we brought our acer duct system to last year for example, it would not have done us any good no matter how perfect it is. The EBD is just so effective even Ferrari's not so good system is still better than none at all. You see, sometimes a concept is just so effective there's no better alternative.

Many people did NOT predict that the exhaust can be used to seal the diffuser anymore. Ferrari's solution was kind of obvious, as Scarb did suggested it long before we saw F2012. Many people immediately assume that sealing the diffuser is no longer possible, and it was obvious with teams trying to blow the beam wing, wheel aero and so on.

Ferrari most probably (and unfortunately) did not see the possibility of it too. But McLaren, Red Bull and Sauber saw it, tried it and it seems to work. We are back to EBD. And we all know how effective it is. As someone has mentioned, not only EBD improve the efficiency of the diffuser, it allows you to run higher rake without compromising the efficiency of the diffuser.

Question is, can blowing some minor aero on the wheel be any more effective than sealing the diffuser? Had this concept not been possible this year, then of course Ferrari's concept would have the upper hand, something is better than nothing. But now that its been proven that the diffuser can be seal with the exhaust gas again, Ferrari will have to decide to quickly adept the new EBD system, or continue trying to blow the aero on the wheel.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

They've reserved day 4 for getting drunk over the bad results of days 1-3.

Lol. I hope not

[TheProdigalSon]

Latest news say NO NEW exhaust until BCN free practice!
But it makes no sense how will they have time to do it in BCN!!!

That's not news, it's just a silly rumor from gazzetta paper.

[scuderiafan]

The thing is, had we brought our acer duct system to last year for example, it would not have done us any good no matter how perfect it is. The EBD is just so effective even Ferrari's not so good system is still better than none at all. You see, sometimes a concept is just so effective there's no better alternative.

Many people did NOT predict that the exhaust can be used to seal the diffuser anymore. Ferrari's solution was kind of obvious, as Scarb did suggested it long before we saw F2012. Many people immediately assume that sealing the diffuser is no longer possible, and it was obvious with teams trying to blow the beam wing, wheel aero and so on.

Ferrari most probably (and unfortunately) did not see the possibility of it too. But McLaren, Red Bull and Sauber saw it, tried it and it seems to work. We are back to EBD. And we all know how effective it is. As someone has mentioned, not only EBD improve the efficiency of the diffuser, it allows you to run higher rake without compromising the efficiency of the diffuser.

Question is, can blowing some minor aero on the wheel be any more effective than sealing the diffuser? Had this concept not been possible this year, then of course Ferrari's concept would have the upper hand, something is better than nothing. But now that its been proven that the diffuser can be seal with the exhaust gas again, Ferrari will have to decide to quickly adept the new EBD system, or continue trying to blow the aero on the wheel.

But surely they are not blowing the diffuser to the same extent as before?
Ive got to say, I dont know much about this matter, it is news to me.

[Hornet]

But surely they are not blowing the diffuser to the same extent as before?
Ive got to say, I dont know much about this matter, it is news to me.

Yeah, of course its not as effective as when compared to last year. Only the teams know at the moment how effective it is, with all the data it have.

It just worries me that since Red Bull introduce the concept back on their car, they've been improving and Vettel now have won. Adrian Newey seems to be very good at this and if Red Bull can make it work well, it could potentially be damaging... to us of course

I just hope Ferrari make the right choice whatever they choose to do.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Actually the Sauber and Red Bull solution seems to be the better one at the moment. What they do is they go in between the diffuser and the wheel, and this seals the diffuser from the side to reduce leakage. This will allow the diffuser's low pressure effect to remove more air from underneath the car.

Ferrari's solution is difficult because you cannot fine tune where the hot gas goes, and if it goes into the brake ducts or the tires, you're overheating them.

This is a common misconception regarding the F2012, but it was getting the exhaust to the floor the same as McLaren & Sauber. People always say they were blowing the brake ducts, which is true at higher speed the same way McLaren & Sauber do. It's a slow speed corners where the exhaust gasses are going to the floor. The faster the car goes, the more the exhaust flow rises, and being that Ferrari's solution is closer to the rear tyres is why they were overheating. But the Ferrari launch exhaust was no different than the McLaren with what they were trying to achieve. Ferrari launch exhaust used Coanda Effect/Downwash effect just like McLaren & Sauber, they just did it in a different way.
Which is the best? We don't know because Ferrari never got theirs working properly. I believe we will see a modified version of the launch exhaust in Mugello or Spain and we will not try to copy another teams design. But that's just my opinion.

McLaren Exhaust: Slow speed- exhaust to floor Med-High speed- brake duct area

Sauber Exhaust: Slow speed- exhaust to floor Med-High speed- brake duct area

Ferrari Exhaust: Slow speed- exhaust to floor Med-High speed- brake duct area

All 3 solutions use both the Coanda Effect and downwash over the sidepods to direct exhaust flow to the floor