Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

**Tifoso84** · 24th October 2012, 14:59

Originally Posted by FerrariF60

fine with me too...the car can look the same; as long as we gain half a second...

Yea, who cares whether the car looks different or not?! The time difference to the Red Cow is what matters the most. If we can gain a couple of tenths on them then that'd be fantastic, everything else is pretty irrelevant.

**anuragiyer8989** · 24th October 2012, 15:38

1 more ---

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-photos...11536/#/211536

**Hornet** · 24th October 2012, 15:50

No new exhaust then.

**F1NAC** · 24th October 2012, 15:58

Originally Posted by Hornet

No new exhaust then.

maybe they are hiding their cards

**bluesilhouettes** · 24th October 2012, 15:59

Never show anything new on Wed. I have no doubt of Ferrari's massive upgrade package.
Please work ! I will be very sad if Alonso's effort is watsed.

**Tifoso84** · 24th October 2012, 16:01

Originally Posted by Hornet

No new exhaust then.

Who knows, they could still be trying the new exhaust on Friday. We'll find out soon.

**Ken** · 24th October 2012, 16:05

Hold on! I believe to beat the Indian Customs and I hope they already have the updates fitted.

If so those photos are irrelevant

**anuragiyer8989** · 24th October 2012, 16:12

Originally Posted by Ken

Hold on! I believe to beat the Indian Customs and I hope they already have the updates fitted.

If so those photos are irrelevant

Please share your source....i hope u r right!

**Rob** · 24th October 2012, 16:20

Originally Posted by Hornet

No new exhaust then.

Part of the tests at weekend was to look at 2013 parts aswell. If we get new exhaust this year brilliant, but if not be for next years car as rules the same.

**Silent Bob** · 24th October 2012, 16:31

Maybe the big gain is not through radical new parts but just by getting all the parts we already have to work. maybe the car only needs small, integrated parts to make a big gain.

**blaney1977** · 24th October 2012, 17:17

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

Maybe the big gain is not through radical new parts but just by getting all the parts we already have to work. maybe the car only needs small, integrated parts to make a big gain.

I agree on that, suttle changes can make the difference, it's 3ths not 1 sec we need to find. 3 ths puts us as near as damm it level with the bulls

**dmkevin** · 24th October 2012, 17:27

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

Maybe the big gain is not through radical new parts but just by getting all the parts we already have to work. maybe the car only needs small, integrated parts to make a big gain.

well said... i believe this too, if ferrari can tweak the car to increase the volume of air that gets to the diffuser and also ensure its streamlined then we should get more downforce at the rear... also balance the front to harmonise with the rear we should get more out of the car... major upgrades doesnt mean more gain, u could have major upgrades that give you exactly the same as small changes everywhere...

**dmkevin** · 24th October 2012, 17:43

One thing i still dont believe this wind tunnel issue ferrari keeps on saying... if it was that serious they would have switch to cologne straight away, why waste time... as i mentioned in one of my post before, i believe SF dont have good aerodynamist working there. tombazis is not a top aerodynamist!!! sorry to say but he is not. we need someone else there, someone who has been working with newey as aerodynamist before, maybe this guy from Red bull prodromu or something... if we had good aero guys we would have moved to cologne earlier not when championship is nearly lost... this is a diversion to cover the inabilities of our engineers!!! sorry to be harsh and direct but ferrari has never been good at aero else luca wouldnt have complained for so long about F1 being so aero biased. he knows they are way behind everyone else.

**Rob** · 24th October 2012, 17:49

Originally Posted by dmkevin

One thing i still dont believe this wind tunnel issue ferrari keeps on saying... if it was that serious they would have switch to cologne straight away, why waste time... as i mentioned in one of my post before, i believe SF dont have good aerodynamist working there. tombazis is not a top aerodynamist!!! sorry to say but he is not. we need someone else there, someone who has been working with newey as aerodynamist before, maybe this guy from Red bull prodromu or something... if we had good aero guys we would have moved to cologne earlier not when championship is nearly lost... this is a diversion to cover the inabilities of our engineers!!! sorry to be harsh and direct but ferrari has never been good at aero else luca wouldnt have complained for so long about F1 being so aero biased. he knows they are way behind everyone else.

Peter Prodromou.

**scuderiafan** · 24th October 2012, 17:58

Originally Posted by dmkevin

One thing i still dont believe this wind tunnel issue ferrari keeps on saying... if it was that serious they would have switch to cologne straight away, why waste time... as i mentioned in one of my post before, i believe SF dont have good aerodynamist working there. tombazis is not a top aerodynamist!!! sorry to say but he is not. we need someone else there, someone who has been working with newey as aerodynamist before, maybe this guy from Red bull prodromu or something... if we had good aero guys we would have moved to cologne earlier not when championship is nearly lost... this is a diversion to cover the inabilities of our engineers!!! sorry to be harsh and direct but ferrari has never been good at aero else luca wouldnt have complained for so long about F1 being so aero biased. he knows they are way behind everyone else.

Tombazis cars:

He is most definitely a top aerodynamicist. How can we slate the people when they brought us back so wonderfully this year?

When the tools are working, Ferrari produce. When the tools aren't working, Ferrari don't produce. Am I missing something?

I wonder if RedBull considered firing Newey when their tunnel was a heap?

**Rob** · 24th October 2012, 18:05

Some stunning cars, things will start to gel soon and we will be back up front where we belong.

Forza Ferrari

**dmkevin** · 24th October 2012, 18:10

these were top car... but chief designer was rory byrne!!! back then engine development was the factor that determined whether a team wins or not... ferrari had the best engine, aero was there but not as important as it is now. neweys design back then was still better in terms of aero then but his engine couldnt get him the benefit needed. what he could get with the aero we got more with the engine, in terms of BHP, reliability... also ferrari had free will to test on there own track, so on track testing with two cars sometimes. they were well ahead of everybody in terms of having the track to test at free will!!!! that what got ferrari the win not mr tombazis genius!!! newey was still there or about... Rory was the genius not tomdick!!!!!! what tomba is lacking is pure genius ideas and direction of development... since spain we had no clear direction in terms of development, everything he brought to the car didnt work... cant keep on hiding behind wind tunnel!!!!

**dmkevin** · 24th October 2012, 18:16

what reb bull was doing with their engine mapping, cyclinder cut off to improve low speed traction and balance, we probably had all of this better than what renault is doing now... if engine development is back... we will win by a mile... no catch up... maybe 1 sec faster!!! 2014 i think we will be stronger than anybody else but for now we have to admit that we lack aero expertise...

**dmkevin** · 24th October 2012, 18:25

How can you compare Newey with tombazis... no match - a universe of difference between them 2. Rory and newey yes!!! when newey went to redbull, RB was a startup team, he needed time to get his team to understand his philosophy, nothing to do with wind tunnel... Have you ever heard red bull complained about wind tunnel data not match with the track!!! never... so what are you referring to mate. you comparing apple with pear... anyway lets keep it to ferrari development...

**Rob** · 24th October 2012, 18:36

Newey has a team around him, isnt just him. 2014 will help us aswell, wings are going to be smaller hence less aero than now. With in season testing banned and engine development freeze palyed into their hands as they invested in the state of the art CFD and software. As yo say it all takes time to gel and so will our team and Pats changes and new wind tunnel being planned it will take bit of time. But once it does.

**Tifoso84** · 24th October 2012, 19:42

Naah, I don't think that Mr. Tombazis is at fault for our problems. The way we are still able to make some big leaps forward in terms of improving the car, says a lot about how good he is. A good example is the big performance gain prior to the Spanish GP this year. Where we were able to improve the car by at least 7 or 8 tenths, maybe even 1 second. That must say something about our chief designer? And we have actually improved the car throughout the season. If Tombazis really were a "dimwit" in aerodynamics then we certainly wouldn't be fighting for both titles right now. I sincerely believe that as soon as we get the wind tunnel fixed, then the results will surely come.

**bobi_ve** · 24th October 2012, 19:52

Originally Posted by dmkevin

One thing i still dont believe this wind tunnel issue ferrari keeps on saying... if it was that serious they would have switch to cologne straight away, why waste time... as i mentioned in one of my post before, i believe SF dont have good aerodynamist working there. tombazis is not a top aerodynamist!!! sorry to say but he is not. we need someone else there, someone who has been working with newey as aerodynamist before, maybe this guy from Red bull prodromu or something... if we had good aero guys we would have moved to cologne earlier not when championship is nearly lost... this is a diversion to cover the inabilities of our engineers!!! sorry to be harsh and direct but ferrari has never been good at aero else luca wouldnt have complained for so long about F1 being so aero biased. he knows they are way behind everyone else.

Its all about teams philosophy and decision making/adopting process.Thats our weakest point all the time.
Our team is completely full with

of bureaucratic procedures.Its not Tobazis nor formerly Aldo's (now Fry's) nor everyone else fault.

For me its all about teams organization structure and if you ask me for person whose fault it is I will say 100% Di Montezemolo and Domenicali together equal 50:50.

**mugdoc** · 25th October 2012, 02:13

wednesday in greater noida
211536.jpg

**mugdoc** · 25th October 2012, 10:52

**Enzo** · 25th October 2012, 12:04

cb_technical_08.jpg

**Greig** · 25th October 2012, 14:02

I asked before, can this thread please be kept to actual development news please.

**Gerhard Berger** · 25th October 2012, 14:15

Originally Posted by dmkevin

Apologies, yes aero was still an important factor... but what i meant was that there were lots of gizmos that aided the aero and engine development was huge then... i know everybody had the same rule, but ferrari had the bigger budget and could spend at will... anyway. I will retract my words on tomba and let him do his work in peace!!! i support ferrari, so i should give him my support!!! :)...

Well we had unlimited testing and a large budget in the 90s but it didn't bring us any success. It was only until the right people (Brawn, Byrne, Todt, Tombazis, Czapski etc.) came along and put the right processes and infrastructure in place that we started winning again.