Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[Rosso Corsa]

twitter by @Paliyoes and retwitted by joseluis gives a fantastic explanation

The real problem with the F2012, a problem Ferrari cannot openly admit, is the ban of reactive suspensions

Was the ban of reactive suspensions what caused all the instability problems and aero inefficiency?
@Inside Ferrari: No, because we did not have any reactive suspension...

[Rob]

think the word they looking for is D'OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gerhard Berger]

to be fair, he did say it was a problem Ferrari cannot openly admit to.

[Rosso Corsa]

to be fair, he did say it was a problem Ferrari cannot openly admit to.

He did, but it's just a caveat typical of someone trying to add credo to their theories. A powerful caveat at that. Let's apply it to the F2004 and our use of a Turbo. Ferrari cannot openly admit to using one. Ergo, it's true we had a turbo?

[Hornet]

Ferrari did seek clarification on the device its doubtful that Ferrari did not have their own working version. Probably just semantics, Ferrari is not calling it reactive suspension, but that doesn't mean they don't have something that works to that concept.

He did, but it's just a caveat typical of someone trying to add credo to their theories. A powerful caveat at that. Let's apply it to the F2004 and our use of a Turbo. Ferrari cannot openly admit to using one. Ergo, it's true we had a turbo?

Regardless of what you admit to the media, the FIA does know everything as the cars need to pass their inspection. If Ferrari did use turbo, the FIA would know and would have disallowed it. So its safe to say that Ferrari doesn't have turbo.

[Kyss4k]

Ferrari did seek clarification on the device its doubtful that Ferrari did not have their own working version. Probably just semantics, Ferrari is not calling it reactive suspension, but that doesn't mean they don't have something that works to that concept.

This. Ferrari worked on it and most probably it was ready to go on F2012. Clearly Ferrari twitter is "lying". But that doesn't mean that @Paliyoes is 100% right.

[Nova]

I still see no benefit to the stepped nose. Really, the fastest cars do without them.
That sounds like a bait, dont it? I dont mean it to be, but Ive been trying to figure
just what purpose they serve.

[Gerhard Berger]

He did, but it's just a caveat typical of someone trying to add credo to their theories. A powerful caveat at that. Let's apply it to the F2004 and our use of a Turbo. Ferrari cannot openly admit to using one. Ergo, it's true we had a turbo?

Strawman argument....

Please remember that when Domenicalli was asked about reactive ride height systems back in the Winter, he said that we were looking at such systems.

[Gerhard Berger]

I still see no benefit to the stepped nose. Really, the fastest cars do without them.
That sounds like a bait, dont it? I dont mean it to be, but Ive been trying to figure
just what purpose they serve.

we knew the purpose from the beginning - to keep the chassis as high as possible in order to get more air to the floor and splitter.

[Nova]

we knew the purpose from the beginning - to keep the chassis as high as possible in order to get more air to the floor and splitter.

So, hows that working out for them?

[scuderiafan]

I have gotten used t the noses anyways. They look mean.
The McLaren is the class of the field because it along with Lotus and Sauber has got its exhaust solution working very well. RedBull and Ferrari haven't.
The noses don't make much different. It seems the macs don't need as much air to the floor, and their structure of their components in the nose were already ready for the regs this year. I think there was something about the mp4 26 being the only car to pass these regs. So it wasn't a problem for McLaren with regards to the noses. The other teams have felt a step is the best solution.

[ferrari4life]

Ferrari should make an f1 car to sell for regular road use.. then they can test it as much as they want and say its for the road car test and screw the stupid testing ban which is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in any sport. What is a sport without practice.

[Rob]

Ferrari should make an f1 car to sell for regular road use.. then they can test it as much as they want and say its for the road car test and screw the stupid testing ban which is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in any sport. What is a sport without practice.

silly isnt it, its like footballers not allowed to train during the week for games. Bring it back for sure.

[Nova]

Ferrari should make an f1 car to sell for regular road use.. then they can test it as much as they want and say its for the road car test and screw the stupid testing ban which is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in any sport. What is a sport without practice.

I could never ever understand this rule..I mean, in motor racing..how do you run a successful innovative race car....without testing??????
How do you run any race car without testing, now that I mentioned it!!!!???!!!

Ferrari would come next race with the car much more sorted for sure...

@Suderiafan..I just dont like the stepped nose, dont see just what advantage theyre giving..and the mac without is still faster.

[scuderiafan]

I could never ever understand this rule..I mean, in motor racing..how do you run a successful innovative race car....without testing??????
How do you run any race car without testing, now that I mentioned it!!!!???!!!

Ferrari would come next race with the car much more sorted for sure...

@Suderiafan..I just dont like the stepped nose, dont see just what advantage theyre giving..and the mac without is still faster.

yeah, you're right, but i don't think it is any advantage to anyone. it is just teams choosing whatever suits them. judging by Ferrari themselves, if the normal nose gave the most benefit, then they would have gone with that, but it doesnt for Ferrari.
likewise, despite McLaren jibber jabber machine, if the step was beneficial for them, they would have used it, regardless.
i would say everyone is very close, and it can change definitely. RedBull and ferrari havent had the best of starts, let's see what China brings.

[Nisko]

nice article:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...m-4630113.html

[Gerhard Berger]

So, hows that working out for them?

seems like the problems with the car lie elsewhere.

[Gerhard Berger]

I just dont like the stepped nose, dont see just what advantage theyre giving..and the mac without is still faster.

The step is a by product of getting the underside of the chassis as high as possible. I've already explained the advantage of this to you.

[Gerhard Berger]

yeah, you're right, but i don't think it is any advantage to anyone. it is just teams choosing whatever suits them. judging by Ferrari themselves, if the normal nose gave the most benefit, then they would have gone with that, but it doesnt for Ferrari.
likewise, despite McLaren jibber jabber machine, if the step was beneficial for them, they would have used it, regardless.
i would say everyone is very close, and it can change definitely. RedBull and ferrari havent had the best of starts, let's see what China brings.

Yeh Ross Brawn explained it quite well in pre - season. It is essentially a compromise between amount of airflow to the floor vs lower center of gravity. Brawn then went on to say that if Mclaren are not at the front, it probably wouldn't be because of the nose.

[Nova]

seems like the problems with the car lie elsewhere.

And how would you know that? Its all hearsay, and opinions. Nothing more.
Not that theres anything wrong with that.

[Nova]

The step is a by product of getting the underside of the chassis as high as possible. I've already explained the advantage of this to you.

You did? Well mabey Im a bit slow. Mabey I think the design including the nose will not get this car the wcc.
The truth is simple, the F2012 is basically 4th, mabey 5th fastest car, and Im giving them leeway here. How can anyone say the problem, or
1 of them doesnt have anything to do with the nose. If that front design doesnt work in conjunction with the rest of the design phylosiphy,
it isnt going to work no matter what they do elsewhere. I tend to think it has more to do with it.

[khizerk]

You did? Well mabey Im a bit slow. Mabey I think the design including the nose will not get this car the wcc.
The truth is simple, the F2012 is basically 4th, mabey 5th fastest car, and Im giving them leeway here. How can anyone say the problem, or
1 of them doesnt have anything to do with the nose. If that front design doesnt work in conjunction with the rest of the design phylosiphy,
it isnt going to work no matter what they do elsewhere. I tend to think it has more to do with it.

How can anyone say the problem isn't with the nose? Because Ferrari repeatedly has said the nose selected was the most efficient from many solutions considered (they said it in the chat). And also because they have repeatedly said that the problem is with the exhausts. A helluva lot of teams have stepped noses, you can't possibly say 1000s of engineers didn't get it right. Yes, ours is wider....and would be producing much more drag (and downforce too), but thats always the case with all components. You just balance it out on other components.

[Gerhard Berger]

And how would you know that? Its all hearsay, and opinions. Nothing more.
Not that theres anything wrong with that.

Because our original exhaust solution did not work. We now have the less efficient solution of blowing the beam wing. Pat Fry admitted that blowing the floor is the best solution.

In addition, have you watched the car in action? There's quite clearly a lack of rear end downforce and poor traction which indicates the problems are not with the front of the chassis, but with the exhausts/diffuser.

[Nova]

How can anyone say the problem isn't with the nose? Because Ferrari repeatedly has said the nose selected was the most efficient from many solutions considered (they said it in the chat). And also because they have repeatedly said that the problem is with the exhausts. A helluva lot of teams have stepped noses, you can't possibly say 1000s of engineers didn't get it right. Yes, ours is wider....and would be producing much more drag (and downforce too), but thats always the case with all components. You just balance it out on other components.

If Ferrari has said repeatedly the problem is w/the exhausts, but the car still doesnt work??

[T van R]

Obviously We tested different exhaust positions in test days & surely we collected data for every exhaust position. Now it depends on the Ferrari to choose which one. In my opinion Ferrari will adopt (Sauber, Mercedes & McLaren) exhaust concept, in another word Those teams exhaust concept are approximately the same.

Note: I saw in the past posts a photoshoped F2012 photo with Sauber back end & some members complain about copying Sauber exhaust or not. In my opinion:

1: It is not just sauber with that kind of exhaust concept. As i said before Mercedes & McLaren have that kind of exhaust from the beginning of the tests.
2: It is not copying because making the new concept of exhaust work with the car, needs data that we achieved in test days while testing different exhaust.
3: Remember Red Bull had similar exhaust to Ferrari F2012 but they changed their exhaust & adapted (Sauber, Mercedes, McLaren & Red Bull) exhaust concept, so if it is necessary we will change exhaust concept to gain more performance.

[Gerhard Berger]

If Ferrari has said repeatedly the problem is w/the exhausts, but the car still doesnt work??

yep we have an interim exhaust which blows the beam wing. This does not provide the optimal performance and was not the exhaust solution intended for the car.

[Alonsofan2002]

car lacks Mechanical grip imo.

[scuderiafan]

car lacks Mechanical grip imo.

Yet the reason Alonso won last race was his wet pace.
Surely a lack of mechanical grip would show up more in the wet?

[FrankAlfa]

I have to laugh at all of the "Arm Chair" Quarterbacks. The cars are all seeking downforce and grip any way they can. Mechanical Grip, Aero Downforce (axial & lateral), Lateral Aceleration and all at the same time Reduce Dag and have the highest Straight Line Speed. These are all the areas of work that all teams are working on. For Ferrari, It is about getting the car balanced and consistent. The car is running hot and then cold which is to say fast one moment and then very slow the next. It appears to be a very odd race car. They are trying hard to get a handle on this race car and get it balanced. These are the things all the teams are working on. It is a all about many little improvements and making them all working together. It is not about just one aspect of the Race car. It is about many things to improvement on the race car and make them all work in unison with each other and not could confliction forces about the race car.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[Hornet]

I have to laugh at all of the "Arm Chair" Quarterbacks. The cars are all seeking downforce and grip any way they can. Mechanical Grip, Aero Downforce (axial & lateral), Lateral Aceleration and all at the same time Reduce Dag and have the highest Straight Line Speed. These are all the areas of work that all teams are working on. For Ferrari, It is about getting the car balanced and consistent. The car is running hot and then cold which is to say fast one moment and then very slow the next. It appears to be a very odd race car. They are trying hard to get a handle on this race car and get it balanced. These are the things all the teams are working on. It is a all about many little improvements and making them all working together. It is not about just one aspect of the Race car. It is about many things to improvement on the race car and make them all work in unison with each other and not could confliction forces about the race car.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

You know, you could have posted your opinion without having to insult other people
You're doing exactly what others are doing, sharing an opinion. Unless you're an automotive engineer or something where you can claim your opinion matters more. Otherwise, your opinion is as good as any others.