Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[Hombre B]

Adam Cooper:

Magny-Cours has confirmed that Mercedes, Ferrari and Force India will run their young driver tests at the French track on Sep 11-13

[jickmagger]

There seems no way to get Pit Lane time down any more so I can understand that the aerodynamics are something to focus on even more (who remembers the first trials - and disasters - with aerodynamic disasters!?). As the different parts of the track require different aerodynamics though - perhaps the next stage will be computer controlled parts that change with the terrain. Would that be allowed I wonder?

[Hornet]

There seems no way to get Pit Lane time down any more so I can understand that the aerodynamics are something to focus on even more (who remembers the first trials - and disasters - with aerodynamic disasters!?). As the different parts of the track require different aerodynamics though - perhaps the next stage will be computer controlled parts that change with the terrain. Would that be allowed I wonder?

Well, we've already had active suspension system where the suspension is controlled the height of the car, as well as active braking system and traction control which is computer controlled. These technology are all banned because it reduces the competitiveness of the sport. With traction control and ABS, the driver is not in full control of the car, but they are just a voting member. You accelerate the car, but the computer will decide how much acceleration is allowed. No matter how hard you step on the brake, the ABS system will tell the brake how to brake so you don't lock up the wheels. So the computer is helping the driver to drive the car.

Therefore I don't think F1 will allow any computer parts to control the car handling or help with it.

[Sempre_Ferrari]

now back to some meaningful infos about F2012 (this is development thread remember?):
Everything comes out of Rumour-Domain and AutoSprint:
- new FW and RW
- new engine map
- new Shell fuel
- new DRS

Here is the text so Italian guys please enlighten us :)

Basically it says that the parts for the next two races have been in the works for a long time and just need refinement. There's good news in that they have found out what was causing the recently tested new parts not to work as they should and have resolved that issue and they concentrating on getting those upgrades working properly for Singapore. They however expect Spa to be a tough race due to double DRS that Lotus and Mercedes have apparently now Mclaren as well? They go on to talk about the hot conditions in Europe which could affect many races with Moza air temp expected to be 40c so races will be less about aero and more about reliability due to the high temps. Beside aero updates there is also engine map and fuel updates to match the different maps for Spa and Monza.

That's the short of it

[stefa]

Basically it says that the parts for the next two races have been in the works for a long time and just need refinement. There's good news in that they have found out what was causing the recently tested new parts not to work as they should and have resolved that issue and they concentrating on getting those upgrades working properly for Singapore.

Every now and then there is a problem between drawing board/wanting new parts to provide wished results/production and results on track?!?!?
When and will they ever resolve that problem?!?!

[Salvador Dali]

Every now and then there is a problem between drawing board/wanting new parts to provide wished results/production and results on track?!?!?
When and will they ever resolve that problem?!?!

There is no 100% right way. No team can say they have made all the updates work 100%. Why? Well we have good computor models, simulations, wind tunnels, theories, equations... but only the real live data can show how it actually works. So all the updates are to some degree guesses. So to have a 90% success is good as the better (more refined) aero devices are the more sensitive they are, so the harder it is to exctract 100%.

Hope you fell better about our team and it's updates - we have made up more that 1,5 seconds! How many teams can say that?

[burak karakutuk]

http://www.ferrari.com/english/formu...news-n-14.aspx

[Massimo181]

Hi All,

Need some help here with this.

The last couple of days I have been on the beach as I have had a couple of days off!

I live in the Algarve, Portugal and yesterday as guy and a girl were sitting near me on the beach and the guy was the spitting image of Alonso.

I did not have the guts to go up and ask as it was probably less than 50/50 it was him, But I have read he has a new girlfriend that looked like the girl again could be wrong totally.

So I went to the beach again today and the Alonso look a like was there again and I nearly asked but thought if it was not I would have to sit there all day like a fool!!

So can anyone help and know if Alonso would be here in the Algarve or would he be back working?!

I know it is a long shot and I know it is in the development thread sorry did not want to open a thread and look a fool.

Sorry and thanks in advance?!!

[radosav]

Basically it says that the parts for the next two races have been in the works for a long time and just need refinement. There's good news in that they have found out what was causing the recently tested new parts not to work as they should and have resolved that issue and they concentrating on getting those upgrades working properly for Singapore. They however expect Spa to be a tough race due to double DRS that Lotus and Mercedes have apparently now Mclaren as well? They go on to talk about the hot conditions in Europe which could affect many races with Moza air temp expected to be 40c so races will be less about aero and more about reliability due to the high temps. Beside aero updates there is also engine map and fuel updates to match the different maps for Spa and Monza.

That's the short of it

so, no DDRS for Ferrari at Spa, or any time soon

[Hornet]

Hi All,

Need some help here with this.

The last couple of days I have been on the beach as I have had a couple of days off!

I live in the Algarve, Portugal and yesterday as guy and a girl were sitting near me on the beach and the guy was the spitting image of Alonso.

I did not have the guts to go up and ask as it was probably less than 50/50 it was him, But I have read he has a new girlfriend that looked like the girl again could be wrong totally.

So I went to the beach again today and the Alonso look a like was there again and I nearly asked but thought if it was not I would have to sit there all day like a fool!!

So can anyone help and know if Alonso would be here in the Algarve or would he be back working?!

I know it is a long shot and I know it is in the development thread sorry did not want to open a thread and look a fool.

Sorry and thanks in advance?!!

I think Alonso is back in Italy this week. According to his Twitter on 20th Aug

@alo_oficial
Today back to work! Start preparing next two races..! Physical training, simulator and meetings in the plan..! Enjoy the day !!!

so, no DDRS for Ferrari at Spa, or any time soon

It will be banned next year, so I doubt any team will develop it now. At least not the Brawn's DDRS.

Not to be confused with Lotus design which works differently (nothing double about Lotus DRS actually). I believe Lotus' idea will stay legal next year. But we'll have to wait and see what are the new rules that will be used to outlaw Brawn's DDRS. Brawn's DDRS is double because it applies the stalling effect on the front wing as well.

But Lotus don't do that, so perhaps they can escape the ban next year.

[stefa]

There is no 100% right way. No team can say they have made all the updates work 100%. Why? Well we have good computor models, simulations, wind tunnels, theories, equations... but only the real live data can show how it actually works. So all the updates are to some degree guesses. So to have a 90% success is good as the better (more refined) aero devices are the more sensitive they are, so the harder it is to exctract 100%.

Hope you fell better about our team and it's updates - we have made up more that 1,5 seconds! How many teams can say that?

I agree with you that there is no guaranty that new parts will be working 100% out of the box. And yes Ferrari have made incredible progress since first race. I just say that plenty of times we heard and read that something is not right in fine tunning the wind tunnel. This story goes back to 2011 also...
Hoping for a big step in following races in Belgium and Italy.

Forza Ferrari!

[burak karakutuk]

1. Ferrari 3,70 s
2. Red Bull 3,88 s + 0,18 s
3. Force India 3,95 s + 0,25 s
4. Mercedes 4,04 s + 0,34 s
5. ToroRosso 4,41 s + 0,71 s
6. McLaren 4,42 s + 0,72 s
7. Williams 4,45 s + 0,75 s
8. Lotus 4,49 s + 0,79 s
9. Caterham 5,45 s + 1,75 s
10. Sauber 5,46 s + 1,76 s
11. Marussia 5,98 s + 2,28 s

Pit stop averages of teams sofar

[Kiwi Nick]

1. Ferrari 3,70 s
2. Red Bull 3,88 s + 0,18 s
3. Force India 3,95 s + 0,25 s
4. Mercedes 4,04 s + 0,34 s
5. ToroRosso 4,41 s + 0,71 s
6. McLaren 4,42 s + 0,72 s
7. Williams 4,45 s + 0,75 s
8. Lotus 4,49 s + 0,79 s
9. Caterham 5,45 s + 1,75 s
10. Sauber 5,46 s + 1,76 s
11. Marussia 5,98 s + 2,28 s

Pit stop averages of teams sofar

The average over the first 11 races is meaningless. So many of the teams had dreadful PS times early on. What is important is the fastest time in the last race. That gives an idea of the teams potential. For sure it feels good to see Ferrari with such a lead in this statistic, but I don't think this list would hold up if the data were fastest PS from Hungary.

This chart shows the fastest pit stops from Hungary. Red Bull were dominant, both fast and consistent.


# Driver Team Pit stop time Gap On lap
1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 18.964 58
2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren 19.059 0.095 40
3 Jenson Button McLaren 19.083 0.119 34
4 Mark Webber Red Bull 19.175 0.211 39
5 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 19.331 0.367 38
6 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 19.365 0.401 43
7 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 19.38 0.416 17
8 Mark Webber Red Bull 19.386 0.422 55
9 Jenson Button McLaren 19.408 0.444 15
10 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso 19.6 0.636 64
11 Mark Webber Red Bull 19.611 0.647 20
12 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 19.63 0.666 34
13 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso 19.644 0.68 46
14 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 19.669 0.705 17
15 Pastor Maldonado Williams 19.755 0.791 41
16 Kimi Raikkonen Lotus 19.772 0.808 45
17 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso 19.858 0.894 30
18 Felipe Massa Ferrari 19.917 0.953 43
19 Felipe Massa Ferrari 19.981 1.017 18
20 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 20.027 1.063 47
21 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 20.065 1.101 40
22 Kimi Raikkonen Lotus 20.087 1.123 20
23 Bruno Senna Williams 20.213 1.249 16
24 Sergio Perez Sauber 20.216 1.252 47
25 Romain Grosjean Lotus 20.231 1.267 39
26 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 20.234 1.27 8
27 Pastor Maldonado Williams 20.304 1.34 15
28 Sergio Perez Sauber 20.32 1.356 21
29 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 20.352 1.388 16
30 Paul di Resta Force India 20.352 1.388 38
31 Jenson Button McLaren 20.355 1.391 45
32 Jean-Eric Vergne Toro Rosso 20.363 1.399 12
33 Timo Glock Marussia 20.383 1.419 40
34 Lewis Hamilton McLaren 20.436 1.472 18
35 Paul di Resta Force India 20.46 1.496 16
36 M. Schumacher Mercedes 20.503 1.539 32
37 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso 20.51 1.546 14
38 Vitaly Petrov Caterham 20.515 1.551 51
39 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham 20.567 1.603 56
40 Vitaly Petrov Caterham 20.592 1.628 35
41 Bruno Senna Williams 20.604 1.64 42
42 Nico Hulkenberg Force India 20.607 1.643 39
43 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 20.632 1.668 40
44 Nico Hulkenberg Force India 20.736 1.772 15
45 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham 20.78 1.816 17
46 Charles Pic Marussia 20.915 1.951 20
47 Vitaly Petrov Caterham 21.07 .106 18
48 N. Karthikeyan HRT 21.259 2.295 18
49 M. Schumacher Mercedes 21.336 2.372 1
50 Timo Glock Marussia 21.337 2.373 18
51 Charles Pic Marussia 21.378 2.414 39
52 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham 21.855 2.891 36
53 Pedro de la Rosa HRT 21.877 2.913 41
54 N. Karthikeyan HRT 22.031 3.067 39
55 Romain Grosjean Lotus 22.151 3.187 19
56 Pedro de la Rosa HRT 22.332 3.368 22

Sorry about the mess, but it will not let me fix the format.

[burak karakutuk]

It may come to you meaningless but for me it has meaning my friend.And if it is not improtant why they need to publish that?It's good to see how we have improved our pit stops comparing to last year.And you cant say people remind last race.Dont forget this is not the championship,just pit stops...

[wacc]

In the Racing news video there is Fernando testing at Fiorano. The car has latest specification of mirrors which were introduced at Valencia. I didnt know they had some filming day recently?

[scuderiafan]

the season averages show that the Ferrari pitstops are the most consistent so reliable.

If McLaren have 1 2 second pitstop, but the other a 20second, and Ferrari have 2 3second stops, which is better?

[Greig]

The average over the first 11 races is meaningless. So many of the teams had dreadful PS times early on. What is important is the fastest time in the last race. That gives an idea of the teams potential. For sure it feels good to see Ferrari with such a lead in this statistic, but I don't think this list would hold up if the data were fastest PS from Hungary.

LOL really you can't just discard 11 races.

[Jas]

i disagree, we cant get complaicent with regards to pit stops, mclaren have been doing rapid pit stops lately and no doubt if it comes to a head pit stop between us and mclaren, with pure pace, they will beat us, yes looking at the past at the great, but past sucess does not lead to future sucess, clearly their is room for improvement, as mclaren have shown, and no doubt where trying to find that HOWEVER consistency is key, and we are the best at that! at the end of the day championnships are not won on pit stops alone, however they can help in such a close season!

[Kyss4k]

i disagree, we cant get complaicent with regards to pit stops, mclaren have been doing rapid pit stops lately and no doubt if it comes to a head pit stop between us and mclaren, with pure pace, they will beat us, yes looking at the past at the great, but past sucess does not lead to future sucess, clearly their is room for improvement, as mclaren have shown, and no doubt where trying to find that HOWEVER consistency is key, and we are the best at that! at the end of the day championnships are not won on pit stops alone, however they can help in such a close season!

In all honesty, If the pit stop is 2.5s or 2.9... We improved our pit stops MASSIVLEY comapred to the last year (don't you remember?). Now forget the pit stops, we are amongs the fastest and we are the most reliable. We should put all of our monney into the car itself. There is more than 4 tenths once by "20 laps" to find.

[TheProdigalSon]

Anyone heard this rumor about yet another new exhaust coming?

[burak karakutuk]

I didnt hear about new exhaust but a friend said that we bring new front wing,rear wing,new shell oil formula,engine mapping and 3 more updates which kept secret.I guess it may be floor or ddrs but not sure what he meant with these 3 uptades

[PURE PASSION]

Tell me that your friend is working in maranello!!!!!

[burak karakutuk]

Tell me that your friend is working in maranello!!!!!

No, he just tweet to formal Graig Scarborough account and he did reply like this

[Rob]

didnt know where to post this, but as had few posts about pitstops...
FERRARI FASTEST PIT CREW IN 2012 - ANALYSIS
Monday 27 August at 08:35 : Aug.27 (GMM) Ferrari, whose Fernando Alonso is leading the world championship, is also the team with the fastest pit crew so far in 2012.

Germany's Auto Motor und Sport has found that the Italian squad's tyre-changing crew is on average a touch under two tenths faster than reigning champions Red Bull per pitstop.

It is a remarkable turnaround for Maranello based Ferrari, who were reportedly in the pitstop "midfield" in the same mid-season ranking a year ago.

In 2011, Mercedes' was the fastest pit crew, but now the Brackley based squad is just fourth, more than three tenths slower than Ferrari and also behind Force India.

McLaren, whose 2012 crew is now orchestrated by Williams' former technical director Sam Michael, have the outright record for the fastest individual stop of 2012.

But, overall, the British team is behind Toro Rosso in sixth place, on average more than seven tenths slower than the Ferrari crew.

And, indicating that smaller budgets even slow teams down in the pits, Caterham's pitstops are on average 1.75 seconds slower than Red Bull, while Marussia (2.28s) and HRT (3.28) bring up the rear.

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/daily...+analysis.html

[vcs316]

http://www.f1-direct.com/formule1-fe...?info-f1=12878

Using google translate:

Like all other teams, Scuderia Ferrari has prepared hard for the next two deadlines, very important, that will SPA and Monza. Before the summer vacation, Maranello's engineers have understood the reasons for the latest introduced in Hungary did not work.

A priori, unlike Mercedes, McLaren and Lotus, Ferrari does not possess double DRS for the next two races.

However many innovations should complement the F2012. Among them, we can count on a new front spoiler, a new rear spoiler with an improved DRS to increase speed, improve an area around the exhaust and the level of the flat bottom, a new mapping engine to increase the power of the V8 petrol and a new introduction by Shell as previously already this season.

These changes are intended to limit the maximum damage before major innovations planned for the Singapore Grand Prix.

[medeni73]

8/27/2012-08:19
Submitted by: Fernando

Livy, think that we can expect the Ferrari bringing some important modification in the car? I say this because if you look at the last race, Mclaren is wide favorite for the race at Spa with the Lotus logo behind. In this case, it would not be a disaster a possible 4 or 5 place of Alonso.

As you posted a few days ago and now, two decisive races not only for the Championship, but also for us Brazilians with our pilots. More twist by Bruno.

answer this comment denouncing abuse

8/27/2012-19:10
Submitted by: Livio Oricchio

Fernando:
Talked Friday with Luca Colajanni, Ferrari, by telephone, and he told me that we will not have any big
updates in the model F2012 in Spa and Monza, only the natural aerodynamic adaptations to fast circuits.
More: is not foreseen until the end of the Championship new packages of profound changes that debuted in
Barcelona and Montreal. Only step-by-step development, now. And this should be the case for most. The designers
already understood what the best solutions this year, at least the big ones, and have already adopted.
Thanks for the comment.
Hugs.

http://blogs.estadao.com.br/livio-or...nato/#comments

[stefa]

8/27/2012-08:19
Submitted by: Fernando

Livy, think that we can expect the Ferrari bringing some important modification in the car? I say this because if you look at the last race, Mclaren is wide favorite for the race at Spa with the Lotus logo behind. In this case, it would not be a disaster a possible 4 or 5 place of Alonso.

As you posted a few days ago and now, two decisive races not only for the Championship, but also for us Brazilians with our pilots. More twist by Bruno.

answer this comment denouncing abuse

8/27/2012-19:10
Submitted by: Livio Oricchio

Fernando:
Talked Friday with Luca Colajanni, Ferrari, by telephone, and he told me that we will not have any big
updates in the model F2012 in Spa and Monza, only the natural aerodynamic adaptations to fast circuits.
More: is not foreseen until the end of the Championship new packages of profound changes that debuted in
Barcelona and Montreal. Only step-by-step development, now. And this should be the case for most. The designers
already understood what the best solutions this year, at least the big ones, and have already adopted.
Thanks for the comment.
Hugs.

http://blogs.estadao.com.br/livio-or...nato/#comments

If true, this sound very optimistic... I am being sarcastic here...

[medeni73]

why sarcastic? it IS good news if true cos: "The designers
already understood what the best solutions this year, at least the big ones, and have already adopted."
It means they have understood the car as is and they will optimize it till end...BIG updates mean sometime that previous versions of car werent good enough and our guys think F2012 as is will be enough to win championship :)

[stefa]

why sarcastic? it IS good news if true cos: "The designers
already understood what the best solutions this year, at least the big ones, and have already adopted."
It means they have understood the car as is and they will optimize it till end...BIG updates mean sometime that previous versions of car werent good enough and our guys think F2012 as is will be enough to win championship :)

Because, looking at previous race in Hungaroring, F2012 was more that half a second slower than competition in front. So I don't think only small tweaks can be enough to make up the difference. Also not to be fooled, all other teams will tweak more or less their cars till the end of the season too.
With current pace of F2012 I don't think FA and Ferrari are able to win championship. Sad but true... They need to tweak it a little bit more than the rest of field.
Will see it on Sunday. Hopefully we will have reason to smile.

[medeni73]

I dont think our car is that slower than competition. Hungaroring pace of all cars was just like on all other tracks - combo of weather/track specific form/tyres/luck/driver skills... So we dont know how it will turn out in Spa and later... None of teams has managed thus far to perfectly incorporate all these elements in order to have the fastest car on ALL tracks so it will be interesting to see how the battle further develops...
but one thing is sure for me: I am happier to hear that they dont have need for big changes than to look at those perplexed faces of our engineers that have no clue whats going on with a car and changing 50% of parts and design...
and once again: BIG updates dont mean always BIG gains...its better to gain 0.3 sec through series of 2-3 tweaks in 2-3 races than to bring potential monster gain of 0.6 sec that doesnt work and then I waste 4 more races in order to track back the problem and try to solve the riddles that on the end bring nothing...