Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

**anupa2k** · 30th July 2012, 12:58

Originally Posted by medeni73

we need normal working updates...just like McLaren and Lotus introduced in last races and are again quicker more than 0.5s
If our updates after the break again work only if temperature is 23.4 exactly, and if Alonso finds exactly 5 fourleaf clovers on a field north-west from the driver camp, and if tyres on our cars produce exactly 125,5 gm graining, and if Scuhmacher forgets to take pills and Kimi 3 Magnums, and if....well you know what I mean :)
We need to push push push even make small excursions into gray area (fine with me, just look at RBs they're trying ANYTHING)...

RB anything but mostly illegal...but still they are fighting hard...why cant we...come on Ferrari...

**Ferrari2183** · 30th July 2012, 13:43

Originally Posted by anupa2k

But our rivals were better than us...so it can be good..it has to be ok... and if i were to say good then its only because of Fernando...but not the car...

Oh this again... Fernando outperforming the car.

Nevermind. Let's move along.

**Jas** · 30th July 2012, 15:05

Bit obvious....but may aswell post!

Domenicali wants Ferrari to go on the attack with development programme
By Jonathan Noble Monday, July 30th 2012, 11:17 GMT

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali wants his team to go on the attack with an aggressive development push for its car, despite Fernando Alonso increasing his championship lead at the Hungarian Grand Prix.

Alonso is now 40 points clear of Mark Webber in the drivers' championship but, after a weekend when Ferrari was outperformed on track, Domenicali is aware of the challenges that lie ahead.

"It is very difficult because at the moment we have seen that there are cars that are faster than us," he explained.

"We need to improve the level of performance and be cool on that, because last weekend [at Hockenheim] we were the quickest in all conditions and in Hungary we were not.

"We need to keep on developing because otherwise the others will improve and it will be more difficult to be in defensive mode. So the key of the season is to keep pushing and, when we have a situation like in Hungary, to gain points."

Domenicali says that Alonso did an impressive job in Hungary to extend his lead on an afternoon when the team was struggling for pace.

"Fernando did a great race and we knew we were in defensive mode, so to be in front of two cars of [Jenson] Button and [Mark] Webber, who were faster than us is very important.

"We came here knowing it was a difficult grand prix for us, but going home having increased the points gap is very good. I think that Fernando can go on holiday and relax because he has had a fantastic first part of the season."

**Grillo** · 30th July 2012, 15:39

Originally Posted by EL_NANDO

It seems we have gone backwards at this race, our pace was shocking. I know Red Bull and McLaren were faster at Hockenheim, but it wasn't a completely different class, but even with Fernando's talent I can't see him beating any of the Red Bull's, McLarens or Lotus's in a normal dry weekend on a track that allows overtaking. If there was overtaking possibilities yesterday I think Alonso would have finished 7th maximum. A 40-50 point gap won't last long unless he can finish at least top 5 at each circuit.

We need some serious updates within the next 2-3 races otherwise I don't think Alonso will win the WDC, which would be a tragedy considering all his magic this season. At least the high speed tracks Spa and Monza should mean we can be more competitive against the others.

The very good news on the other hand is that Lotus in my opinion would have scored a 1-2 yesterday if there was overtaking. It could be great for the championship if Grosjean wins a couple of races. Raikkonen could emerge as a serious title contender IMO if Lotus keep the pace they showed yesterday.

Agree.

There will be a miniseason after the summer break: 9 races in 3 months. Very little time for any major improvement once we leave Europe. The best cars in Spa and Monza will have the upper hand so Ferrari will be working flat out during the summer break, an engineer cannot switch off his head and stay inactive just because the rules say he can't work. It's ridiculous, we know they all have very big upgrades after the summer break before F1 leave Europe.

It'll be like starting a new season in September but we have an advantage of nearly TWO races over our main rivals. We just need a competitive car for poles and wins in Spa and Monza. There will be 5 weeks before we see a car racing again. FIVE weeks is a lot of time, forget about the summer break. All teams schedule the development with those two weeks that they have to stop in mind so they can maximize the use of resources at the factory like wind tunnel, simulator, etc before and after the break and during the break they can still design, analyse data, etc.

**scuderiafan** · 30th July 2012, 15:55

I can't wait for the new 'good ideas' that Alonso is talking about. 4 back to back races, so this summer break is crucial.

But luckily for Ferrari, they are very good at developing their cars later on in the season while away from Europe (provided they havent stopped development yet) and Ferrari have another test at Magny Cours (they might have their young drivers test before the season ends)

This is mainly a track thing, and I think Hungary (the worst track for us) is over, so we can look forward.

**ferrari4life** · 30th July 2012, 16:23

Anyone smarter than be has tried to analyze this track to figure out what about it made it so much different from the previous 2 races.. Was it really the track that potrayed our weaknesses?

Did anyone notice at what parts of the track were we loosing time? How often do these sectors kinds of sectors show up in following races?

**Greig** · 30th July 2012, 16:27

S3 we were very poor, tight and twisty highlights poor traction out of corners always waiting on the car to be planted while others were on it much sooner.

**Ferrari2183** · 30th July 2012, 17:58

Greig, I don't think we have traction problems anymore. At least not enough to warrant that type of time loss in sector 3. The car was very understeery at the Hungaroring and I assume not being able to maintain a tight line in the last 2 long corners really hurt lap time.

Traction was great in Monaco, Canada and Germany. Luckily there are no more circuits with these very slow, long, drawn out turns.

**giodap** · 30th July 2012, 18:11

so its slow speed corners thats our problem, not traction?

**Ferrari2183** · 30th July 2012, 18:17

Not all slow corners are a problem but rather the long ones where maintaining a tight line is imperative to lap time such as the last to 2 corners in Hungary. I don't know if you watched onboards of the weekend but you could see the car washing out during the last 2 turns due to understeer. They easily lost 3 - 4 tenths alone there.

**scuderiafan** · 30th July 2012, 18:39

I guess you mean those annoying turns like turn 2 at Shanghai, Hungary obviously, the ravage hairpin, and turn 12 at Barcelona, where you want to get on the power, but can't.

That makes sense, I don't see many of those turns in the next races.

**Greig** · 30th July 2012, 18:52

Originally Posted by Ferrari2183

Greig, I don't think we have traction problems anymore. At least not enough to warrant that type of time loss in sector 3. The car was very understeery at the Hungaroring and I assume not being able to maintain a tight line in the last 2 long corners really hurt lap time.

Traction was great in Monaco, Canada and Germany. Luckily there are no more circuits with these very slow, long, drawn out turns.

The last corner we were waiting ages to get on the power, others the car was planted.

**Fer12** · 30th July 2012, 18:52

It was ridiculous to see how bad the car was in the last sector especially the last two corners and also turn 2.Its the only weakness of the car.Also Red bull were on the same pace as ferrari but their strategy was different so they looked fast.And on the medium tyres Ferrari was just as fast as Mclaren.We only lost out on the first stint an astounding 16 sec in 16 laps!!We have been slow evertime we used the soft tire.hope the spa upgrade cures this.

**Ferrari2183** · 30th July 2012, 19:25

Originally Posted by Greig

The last corner we were waiting ages to get on the power, others the car was planted.

I agree, but that is symptomatic of the understeer. First had to get the car pointed in the right direction before they could really apply the throttle.

Nobody was better than the Ferrari through turns 4 and 5 though and who knows it could have been better had they not had to compromise so much in order to set respectable times through the slower stuff.

**Ferrari2183** · 30th July 2012, 19:30

Originally Posted by scuderiafan

I guess you mean those annoying turns like turn 2 at Shanghai, Hungary obviously, the ravage hairpin, and turn 12 at Barcelona, where you want to get on the power, but can't.

That makes sense, I don't see many of those turns in the next races.

Those are exactly what I'm talking about. Those type of turns require a great front end which the McLaren and Lotus have in spades. The last time I saw a Ferrari with a really great front end was in the Schumacher years.

**scuderiafan** · 30th July 2012, 19:54

Forty points can be wiped out in an instant: a step forward is needed

Maranello, 30 July - Its hot in Maranello, as it is in all of Italy, which is hardly surprising as this summer has seen several heatwaves with epic names such as Ulisse, Minosse, Caronte and Scipione. Fernando Alonso’s summer is also looking hot as he starts the holiday on a +40: that’s not a case of a bad fever, but the result of a more or less perfect first part to the season. The Spaniard is the only driver to have finished every race in the top ten, bringing his run of consecutive points finishes to 23, which is one step away from the outright record held by Michael Schumacher.

During the weekend on Hungarian soil, the F2012 was never a front runner. It’s been a while since that has happened, the Bahrain Grand Prix to be precise, but despite this, Fernando still managed to increase his lead in the classification to 40 points over the second placed man. A Ferrari man has not had such a lead since 2004, at the end of Michael Schumacher’s five year golden era.

However, in Maranello there is not the slightest sign of any let-up, quite the contrary. Everyone is aware that only a significant step forward in the performance of the F2012 can allow us to entertain any hopes of title glory. Those outside Ferrari who thought that Montezemolo’s comments after the wins in Valencia and Hockenheim were purely platitudes have been proved wrong. When the President said that he was concerned because the opponents were very strong and numerous, he was definitely not trying jinxing our chances: the technical verdict from Budapest shows that at least three cars – Lotus, McLaren and Red Bull – were quicker than Ferrari round the Hungaroring. Therefore a further push is needed to give Fernando and Felipe a more competitive car, starting immediately with the two races that bring the European part of the season to a close, at Spa on 2 September and Monza one week later, otherwise those forty points will not do much good and the championship aspirations, given that even the Constructors’ title is still within reach, will inevitably evaporate. So Stefano Domenicali was very clear when asking for a further effort from all his staff at the traditional post race technical briefing that follows every Grand Prix at the Gestione Sportiva. What’s important is that everyone is aware that Ferrari’s destiny is in their hands.

There’s a lot cooking on the technical front, as Alonso said yesterday to the media after the race, but the key is to cook it to perfection before serving it up: you don’t want to rush it to the table until its ready nor overdo it. Either of these routes could leave a bad taste in the mouth. There are five weeks before the event in the Ardennes, two of which are taken up by the compulsory break agreed among all the teams. The next days will see plenty of heat generated at Maranello, most of it generated by the energy going into the work of each and every one within the Scuderia, rather than from the weather. Then, it will be time to recharge the batteries prior to the final three month rush which will be very intense and won’t leave a moment for taking a breather.

http://www.ferrari.com/english/formu...is-needed.aspx

and

at the bolded.

**Greig** · 30th July 2012, 20:00

Originally Posted by Ferrari2183

Those are exactly what I'm talking about. Those type of turns require a great front end which the McLaren and Lotus have in spades. The last time I saw a Ferrari with a really great front end was in the Schumacher years.

Maybe because MS liked the car to be that way

**Ferrari2183** · 30th July 2012, 20:11

Originally Posted by Greig

Maybe because MS liked the car to be that way

Indeed Greig, but now that a fixed weight distribution is mandatory I think Ferrari should up their game at the front of the car. It will give Massa more scope as well.

**Grillo** · 30th July 2012, 20:54

Probably it was due to a combination of factors that didn't suit the F2012. The characteristics of the track as you said have damaged our lap time but the hot temperature didn't help either. Hopefully Spa and Monza won't be as hot but in any case I think the competitors have improved and we lack a few tenths, especially when it's hot and dry. Fry and Domenicaly among others said that after the race.

**type056** · 30th July 2012, 21:31

Originally Posted by Ferrari2183

Those are exactly what I'm talking about. Those type of turns require a great front end which the McLaren and Lotus have in spades. The last time I saw a Ferrari with a really great front end was in the Schumacher years.

How teams improve front end grip? by putting more downforce on front or by stiffer front suspension?

**Ferrari2183** · 30th July 2012, 21:44

A more efficient front wing for one and a lower front ride height will increase downforce.

The sidepods generate lift as well so more efficiency there and around the splitter will help as well. There is no single solution but there are many ways, in theory, to help with front downforce.

**SashAlex** · 30th July 2012, 22:52

The last sector of the hungarian track highlighted the weaknesses the car still has. In the first two our cars were on par with the leaders, and in the last one, in just two corners we were losing 0.4 to 0.5 seconds. The corners where you try to find the best exit line to get out of it quicker. Such corners punish both, the driver and the car, and give you the biggest lost/gain time in a lap.

The front of our car still looks primitive and the air it works with doesn't glide the car the same way as for Lotus, Macca and RBR etc. and if the upgrades in this area are not more efficient than the others' after the summer break, which Please God, don't let it happen, then we'll struggle even at tracks like Spa, where outside of the fast corners where the F2012 is good, there are some areas with corners after Le Combe, like Bruxelles, a long middle-speed corner where you have to put your nose as fast as possible on the right line, and then there is that "S" before Stavelot, the Buss-Stop and La source, the corners where the car will lose time, and much more if it doesn't have a leap in performance and a much more efficient front wing.

I'm staying positive and have a full confidence that they will work hard during this break. Give the mechanics a small vacation and have the engineers at Maranello work as hard as possible to be competitive with two cars in the last part of the season, because, like in 2010, it's going to be a hell of a job for Fernando to fight alone against three teams, and Felipe was right about helping Fernando.

Let's keep the fingers crossed!

**Ferrari2183** · 30th July 2012, 23:10

Don't think the car in its current guise will struggle at Spa apart from Rivage which is one of those nagging corners. The car will be fine at La Source as it is pointy hairpin where time us gained on entry and not mid corner.

**Brakefade** · 30th July 2012, 23:28

We need to find a way to cheat and work full on during the summer break. You know RB are going to.

**scuderiafan** · 30th July 2012, 23:52

Originally Posted by Brakefade

We need to find a way to cheat and work full on during the summer break. You know RB are going to.

Remember last year when they ran an unsafe setup for the tyres, then blamed Pirelli, asking for more sets?

**Rishu** · 31st July 2012, 02:52

Looking at the remaining 9 races, I think barring Singapore & Abu Dhabi & maybe even USA (S3 atleast). we will be very competitive in remaining 6 races.
F2012 should work well on tracks like Suzuka, Yeongam & Interlagos

**Fer12** · 31st July 2012, 04:36

Originally Posted by type056

How teams improve front end grip? by putting more downforce on front or by stiffer front suspension?

Actually a softer suspension will reduce understeer but it will create problems in high speed section will create too much body roll.The sector of hungary does not depend on Aero but on mechanical grip.
This is the weakness of the car,its lack of mechanical grip on the front wheels.If they dont sort it out we will struggle on tracks with long slow corners like turn 7 Spa.
And the speed of lotus at hungary was more due to track temp rather than the car evolution.Also their race pace is good because of their car carrying less fuel than other cars(Fuel efficiency of the Renault engine and also because their car does not have off throttle blowing).

**XXX132** · 31st July 2012, 04:48

I'm hopeful of a major upgrade for Spa onwards, given we've run the same basic car for the last three races or so. The guys at the factory must have been working on something, which hopefully will keep us at or near enough to

the front to maintain FA's 40-pt lead for the resy of the season.