You can't expect Ferrari to be the best in every race every year, it just doesn't work like that.Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee
Personally I am really grateful that we are constantly amongst the top.
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You can't expect Ferrari to be the best in every race every year, it just doesn't work like that.
Personally I am really grateful that we are constantly amongst the top.
Full Member
Sure we can. This is Ferrari not Williams....
#KeepFightingMichael
We had the best car from 2000 - 2006 (except 2005 where the rules were changed)
#KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules
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For me they have done nothing...
They have just turn the worst car to the Ok car and we need the best car to win the WDC...
This is Formula 1 and you need to be inch and inch perfect...If they would have the turn out the ok car to the best car they i would have been more happy...
Fernando alteast need a car that is competitive...the Williams and Sauber are often competitive then Ferrari..and How much Ferrari wants to rely on Fernando...
They could not even built a fast car in 3 yrs for Fernando....we were competitive if few of the tracks..but not the best and all thanks to Fernando who turn those competitiveness into race wins...
It will be again Ferrari to blame for if Fernando loses the championship..and i don`t want to him to lose this time...he has really done a hard work this season..
From last two seasons i am hearing comments from Stefano that we are working on matching the windtunnel and track data..Even they cannot get this issue sorted out in 2yrs..last week at young drivers test i was expecting Ferrari to test all the development updates..if they would have tested those then they would have 10 days on time to fix the rear wing issue..but they didn`t instead they focused on Correlating the data with windtunnel and ontrack..(which they are fixing from last 2yrs). And then come and say we need more testing...
AKROCKS
Full Member
Have we not done the best turn around as the season evolved.
Fingers X, I believe we have the most reliable car on track
Banned
+1
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That would depend on what you mean by turn around.Have we not done the best turn around as the season evolved.
Fingers X, I believe we have the most reliable car on track
As for our results, I think its hard to say we turned around considering that Alonso won in Malaysia, the 2nd race.Alonso have been consistently scoring strong points from the beginning, our reliability and pit stop have been great from the beginning so its pretty consistent.
As for the F2012 performance, no doubt we've improve a lot from the start where everything that could went wrong did go wrong for the F2012. No grip no straight line speed etc. But I'm not sure if its completely turn around yet because we seem to still have some performance issues here and there.
The reason why Alonso is leading the WDC still is because we've simply made the best of whatever we have. In terms of efficiency, Ferrari deserve a trophyI'm willing to bet that if you put Lewis or Vettel in the F2012, they would not be leading the WDC now. Our biggest achievement this year was being able to really make the most out of a car that's probably the 2nd or 3rd fastest at best.
Full Member
Agree 100%!!!That's what I mean too.
They said that are working on matching the windtunnel and track data already 3 damn years.
At first in 2010 they changed the windtunnel test model from 50% to 60% and from that time nothing works fine.
Later they tested in both wind tunnels and till now nothing has changed with masive positive result.
After that they made "reconstruction" at key design people.
Take a look at Mclaren or RBR at their aerodevelopment phases...all 3 years every new piece what they bring works perfectly from the first time.
Then what is wrong with our team? WHAT!? Windtunnel correlation?No fresh ideas?No right peoples at right work places?
Do they could finally once forever fix windtunnel and correlate windtunnel data with track???After 3 YEARS?!!!
With this actual F2012's performance Alonso 100% will lose the WDC,and it will be theirs fault for second time,they cant counter only on rivals bad luck every gp!!!
Last edited by Greig; 24th September 2012 at 08:52. Reason: do not bypass the swear filter
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Here it does matter where do Fernando qualified...At Valencia Fernando posted a lap time of 1:38.707 during Q2 and Grosjean posted 1:38.489(who was P1).
So the gap was only 0.218 sec so that was not at all a big gap..but at singapore it was 1 sec. which matters the most..
And previously Ferrari used to have a good race pace but Mclaren and Redbull have taken a step ahead even in race pace...
Now that`s the big worry...
AKROCKS
Full Member
Agreed but what about Performance...Have we not done the best turn around as the season evolved.
Fingers X, I believe we have the most reliable car on track
Where is the downforce? its missing from last 3yrs...
This is Formula 1 we need to be rapid fast in each and every dept....
Why the windtunnel issue is not yet sorted...?
AKROCKS
Full Member
That would depend on what you mean by turn around.
As for our results, I think its hard to say we turned around considering that Alonso won in Malaysia, the 2nd race.
As for the F2012 performance, no doubt we've improve a lot from the start where everything that could went wrong did go wrong for the F2012. No grip no straight line speed etc. But I'm not sure if its completely turn around yet because we seem to still have some performance issues here and there.
The reason why Alonso is leading the WDC still is because we've simply made the best of whatever we have. In terms of efficiency, Ferrari deserve a trophy
We were racing toro rosso at the start of the season
I agree we prob have the 4th fastest car on track but it's alot of turn around if you think about it.
Fernando constantly over driving given us more points
We started with a lawn mover and where we are now compared to the mercs, lotus and red bull it's by itself a positive achievement of the team.
People need to understand, the direction where f1 is going, dominance will be just a word.
There will most likely not have a MS era sort of a display. Thats what Bernie and Co are trying to get at.
They will change the rules as f1 evolves. Introducing new tracks where there will be no data except for Friday runs.
That way, it's going to be like a movie. You got to follow 15 to 18 races and then get a WDC.
Sells more tickets
Last edited by eddie; 24th September 2012 at 11:09.
Full Member
C'mon guys be positive!!
dont just blame what Ferrari team did, they more frustating even more than us(fans) but they were not give up.
They still working, and their efforts lots, lots, lots more double or triple than every other F1 teams does.
Just look how they turn our F2012, from a piece of trash become a diamond to hunt
Full Member
Its not about getting the last few 10s.. rather its about 1sec gap to the top...i.e. Mclaren....now thats the problem...
AKROCKS
Full Member
Tell me once race when Ferrari dominated the race..m saying dominated (not competitive) in last 3yrs...
ANS: Never...and its all Fernando who pushed the car to the limit...not the car..
AKROCKS
Alonso Maniac
Reliability Ferrari's main priority - Domenicali
Ferrari boss Stefano Domenicali is making reliability his team's No. 1 priority for the rest of the season, but he has conceded that it must also improve its performance if Fernando Alonso is to hold onto his championship lead.
Alonso has not suffered any race-ending reliability issues this year and has only retired from one race when he got caught up in Romain Grosjean's accident in Belgium. His title rivals Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel have both registered a DNF due to reliability issues at the last two races and Domenicali thinks such problems will be crucial in deciding the championship.
"At the end of the day we know that the points are the things that count and if you have a reliability issue the consequences are very heavy," he said. "So we have to make sure that first of all we are clear on that point because up to the moment that you don't have any issues on that you can concentrate on the performance side."
The Ferrari boss said the situation would become more critical over the remaining races as drivers get closer to hitting their eight engine limit for the season.
"Do not forget that now we also have a situation where the engines will be short for everyone. Mileage will be important, so there is something on that side of the cake that is very crucial. Reliability for me is the fundamental aspect until the end of the season. We know that we have suffered problems on our side in Monza and we know that we could have suffered problems today. You never know so we will have to wait and see. But for sure this is a priority."
Ferrari did not run a new rear wing in Singapore after it failed to deliver the performance it had hoped for. Domenicali also made clear that his team could not afford any wrong turns in development for the rest of the season.
"From now onwards we have six races to go with different characteristics of the track. For sure we need to improve the car in certain conditions, so we need to put more downforce on the track as the others seemed to have found the right path to improve their cars. We need to be rational and calm and make sure that at home when we are working flat out to bring developments to the car we make the right choice to improve the car.
"Sometimes when you push so hard to improve the development you run the risk of putting stuff that will not improve or can have the opposite effect of making the situation worse. This is the fundamental point that we have to make sure is not happening in the coming weeks."
Asked if he felt Alonso, who is 29 points clear of Sebastian Vettel, could win the drivers' championship without winning another race, Domenicali said: "In my view we have to make sure that Fernando will win again, otherwise we will have to rely on the problems of the others, which is not the right thing to do or say at the moment. We need to be focused on giving Fernando the chance to win again otherwise it will be very difficult. Not impossible, because you never say never, but for us it is fundamental to make sure he can win more races before the end of the season."
Alonso Maniac
Ferrari concedes faster car now a must to keep Fernando Alonso's title challenge alive
Ferrari believes it is now essential for Fernando Alonso's title challenge that it brings improvements to its car.
Although Alonso holds a 29-point advantage over Sebastian Vettel with six races remaining, Ferrari's pace in Singapore has highlighted the performance deficiencies the team has had all year.
And, with a new rear wing that the team had hoped would deliver a step forward in Singapore not working and being abandoned on Friday, it has highlighted the difficulties there are in guaranteeing reward for efforts back at the factory.
Team principal Stefano Domenicali is well aware that Ferrari has been helped by recent reliability issues for Vettel and Lewis Hamilton, who retired from the lead in Singapore, and knows Alonso cannot rely on his rivals hitting more trouble.
"It is fundamental to give to Fernando an improved car in certain conditions," said Domenicali after the Singapore GP.
"We have to make sure that Fernando can win again up until the end, otherwise it [the title] will be very difficult.
"Then we would have to rely on the problems of the others, which is not the right thing to say or to do at the moment.
"[Winning the championship without winning another race is] not impossible, because you can never say never, but for us it is fundamental that he is able to win more races from here."
Domenicali believes that the team's performance is not as bad as recent results have suggested, especially with its chances at Monza compromised by Alonso suffering a car problem in qualifying.
But, in light of Vettel's alternator problem in Italy and Hamilton's gearbox in Singapore, he knows Ferrari has to ensure its own reliability as well.
"Reliability for me is the fundamental aspect up to the end of the season," he said.
"We know that we have suffered problems in Monza, we know we could have had some other problems in Singapore, so we need to wait and see, but this is a priority.
"We know that the points are the things that count so, if you have a reliability issue, we know at this stage of the season it [the penalty] is very heavy.
"Do not forget that now we are in a situation where the engine will be short for everyone - mileage will be important. So there is something on that side of the cake that is very, very crucial."
Full Member
This type of post I find irritating.
Firstly it shows a complete lack of understanding of the complexity of the modern F1 car.
Teams spend millions of pounds to work out their best guess of what makes a winning car, if you look back over the years one team rises to dominate a season, then some one else works and discovers a new concept which becomes the new bench mark.
When you think of all the different areas to be considered at the design stage, engine, suspension, brakes, electronics, hydraulics, materials and manufacturing process to be used for every component.
Add to that the complex world of Aerodynamics, this involves a lot of trading off , more down force equals more drag. So decisions have to made as to where down force will react best for least drag. How it will affect the suspension, traction, acceleration or how it will affect the tyres and fuel economy of the engine. Its a complex puzzle.
Add in the drivers who prefer their cars to have certain handling characteristics
If it were possible to be exact on all the variables then every designer would come up with the same formula.
That would sadly reduce F1 to a GP series.
For me its seeing in any year who's guess works best, and that is the fascination of F1 racing.
And every year I hope it will be Ferrari's year
Its all in the name - FERRARI
Full Member
Nothing is impossible...If Mclaren and Redbull can do it..so we can...but we need to prove it...and in order to prove it should not take 3yrs for the team like Ferrari...
I am a big Ferrari and Fernando fan i need Ferrari and Fernando on top...
AKROCKS
Naughty Word Mod
Schumacher and the dream team took 4 years to win WCC in 1999 and then Schumacher 5 years to win WDC in 2000, once the team has gelled and all things working as1 after big reshuffles and changing the work ethos within the factory. Can not just expect change over night. RBR has taken 5 years to get where they are after buying up the best designers and software programmes in CFD. F1 is so close and tight in regulations its hard (impossible)to win like we did in 2000-2004. We could exploit the loopholes like RBR have in past years, but as we are Ferrari, all the other teams and press would be shouting we cheats and taking the **** out of the rules, so we play within the spirit of the rules.
Our time is coming, Fernando with us till 2016-17 so plenty time.
Forza Ferrari
I do get frustrated aswell, but look at it as new race next time so start again and go from there.
Last edited by Rob; 24th September 2012 at 12:08.
CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE
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Its great for the team who's car hits the track running best, they made the best guess and it follows while other teams work hard to catch up, that team has the advantage of improving even further.
Only one or two teams out of twelve succeed in any year, and reap the rewards.
As for us, this year has been catch up. I would love to see us get at least the WDC.
It is gonna be tough unless we can make a McLaren in 10 days
Its all in the name - FERRARI
Full Member
Agreed..but even in 2009,2010 and 2011 we were doing catch only...so how long we will be doing this..that`s my point...Its great for the team who's car hits the track running best, they made the best guess and it follows while other teams work hard to catch up, that team has the advantage of improving even further.
Only one or two teams out of twelve succeed in any year, and reap the rewards.
As for us, this year has been catch up. I would love to see us get at least the WDC.
It is gonna be tough unless we can make a McLaren in 10 days
When we will see a dominating Ferrari we used to see during low and mid 2000`s...
AKROCKS
Full Member
when Ferrari will actually have a proper wind tunnel that works (when data given/generated by wind tunnel actually translates well ON TRACK), also know how to properly make use of the CFD, THAT'S WHEN WE'RE ACTUALLY going to be doing good again and dominate.
Ferrari did really well in teh golden era 2000-2004 due to different rules concerning testing, there used to be UNLIMITED testing; they would run that car 24H around the clock at Fiorano and that's how they used to develop/fine tune parts...
today's rules seem to be HURTING Ferrari the most...so unless they get better at using the current tools everyone is, we're not going to be doing any better...
So 2023 started off bad, but managed to claw back some lap time come end of the year. Lets hope SF24 will give us tifosi something to smile about.
Salut Gilles
Probably never the sport is very different now.
Forza Ferrari
Full Member
That's an excuse, the days of unlimited testing are long gone, they had time to adpt to this new F1. As an excuse it worked for 2005, in 2012 doesn't.
Full Member
Agreed.
I think one major difference is Ferrari had the full backing of Bridgestone back then. To a certain extend, Ferrari could always get the tires they want. I'd imagine if we have any problems with wear rate or temperature for example, Ferrari could work with Bridgestone to modify the tires to suit the car rather than having to tweak the car to solve tires issue while having other areas of development to work on as well.
Full Member
F1 is so different now: V8 vs V10, no testing, no tire competition, very little room for real innovation with current regulations, electronic aids banned, cost cutting all around... It's not impossible as RB dominated 2011 and had the best car in 2010 but Ferrari's 2000-04 is hardly achievable these days.
Hopefully The F2012 is a winner car in Suzuka. Next two races are key for the WDC. What I fear the most ATM would be Red Bull making a step forward in high speed tracks. SD said they'll bring a few new parts to Japan, that should be a step forward and Marc Gené said on the Spanish TV that Suzuka should be a very good track for Ferrari. The title won't be easy, it'll be a close fight to the end.
Banned
Well,Ferrari will probably be running a slightly higher-DF version of the Spa wing here...they did OK in Spa,though once again,they were way behind in qualifying......i think they really need to take a step forward in quali now. One can almost expect the aerodynamically superb Sauber to compete for the first 3 rows in Suzuka,and Macca to be on pole as always....the one silver lining is the c'ship situation. The RB's have often fluffed in quali this season,Singapore was yet another example of them lacking in qualifying pace.....
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There are now three sets of two back to back races that make up the final rush: Japan-Korea, India-Abu-Dhabi and USA-Brazil. Therefore there is not much time left back in the factory to improve the cars and that’s why Stefano Domenicali and Pat Fry have already returned to Maranello to keep a close eye on the development work for the F2012, for the final races. Nothing can be left to chance in the effort to make a step forward in performance terms: not all the updates brought to Singapore lived up to expectations and unlike what happened in Monza in the previous race, the car was not able to compete with the best in the fight for pole position.
Indeed, as Domenicali underlined when summing up the weekend with the media late last night, it doesn’t mean the team should now adopt an approach which he colourfully described as “orgasmic.” By this, the Scuderia Team Principal meant that the work must be carried out in a rational manner when it comes to analysing performance and understanding exactly what worked and what did not, so as to arrive in Suzuka in better shape. It would be too easy to say that everything is wrong and one should start again from the top: it’s important to understand why some parts, for example the rear wing, did not perform as they should have done. The faults must be found and then corrected. Logic says there is not much time, but one should remember the expression, “less haste, more speed.”
I think there are new parts coming to Japan.
http://www.ferrari.com/english/formu...ing-races.aspx
In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo
Full Member
Do not worry our designers will have a "Ureka" moment one year and we will rise again :)
I am not sure if its fear of the other teams calling us cheats that prevents our designers from being radical. I just think our designers are too conservative.
I am hoping Pat Fry who in the past read the regulations and could see moves within them for improvement, will make a big difference next year.
Its all in the name - FERRARI
Full Member
Almost chocked myself laughing
Edit: Referring to that article above^
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