Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

**wacc** · 22nd September 2012, 16:43

This post was a mistake by me. Sorry.

**PURE PASSION** · 22nd September 2012, 16:50

So we used that wing or not?

**Red is Best** · 22nd September 2012, 16:54

Well, at least we can't blame him for being honest.

**Greig** · 22nd September 2012, 16:55

The right quote

Pat Fry: “Honestly, it would have been difficult to expect more from this qualifying. Of all the updates we brought here, the only one we did not use was the rear wing, which still needs more development: that means we must improve still further the quality of our work if we want to meet our targets. Clearly, the circuit characteristics alone are not enough to explain the difference in performance between us and those who have been quickest in this part of the season, between Monza and Singapore: today we saw a driver-car combination that was absolutely out of reach. We managed to improve the handling of the F2012, but not enough to get Felipe into a position from which he could make the most of the potential he had: unfortunately for him, thirteenth place on the grid means he is in a particularly difficult position for tomorrow’s race. A lot of factors will affect the final outcome of this weekend, starting with tyre behaviour over a long distance. Last year, we struggled a lot in this race and we tried to prepare for it differently this year, even if it’s never easy to find the right compromise in set-up between the single lap and a long run. Other elements to consider will be reliability and strategy. This race is very tough on machinery and the high temperatures definitely don’t help. Then we have the unknown factor of the Safety Car that has always featured in this Grand Prix. To sum up, there are a lot of variable to consider when aiming for a useful result for both championships.”

**Hornet** · 22nd September 2012, 17:03

lol, I was worried there for a moment. If only one part we brought is usable and barely, something is wrong.

**Jose-Lorca Fan** · 22nd September 2012, 21:58

How I wish our car was strong in traction areas like the F10 was. It seems like a recurring problem that we suffer at the high down-force tracks and sadly the team are not able to get on top of it. Ultimately a winning car is one which fairs well everywhere and also qualifies well. Luckily for Ferrari they have an excellent driver in the form of Fernando, but that's not always enough since it takes both a good car and a good driver to win the championship.
I just hope that Ferrari bring continuous updates that work from here on out because right now we are clearly being out developed by McLaren who recently have a knack of bolting updates on and making them work immediately. It hurts when Ferrari fail to do this and it's even more frustrating when they constantly blame the wind tunnel, even if it might be true.
Personally I don't see any other car taking McLaren's crown as the most dominant car in F1 this season. I reckon they will continue to dominate and only mistakes and misfortune will halt their title charge. So far, from Germany onwards, they have proven to have the best qualifying and race pace and that by a large margin. Ferrari's best chance for a win was at a low downforce track like Monza and they still failed to win. And despite what others think, even if Fernando did get pole I still reckon Hamilton would have won through superior race pace. Red Bull's best chance to get pole was today at Singapore, a high downforce track with twisty slow sections, they too failed like Ferrari and once again McLaren came out on top. Their car is simply good everywhere and my point is that it's going to take a mammoth effort from Ferrari to close down that performance gap but also to finish close behind Lewis in all races. The task is made even harder when you have possibly Button and Red Bull taking points off Fernando whilst Hamilton is marching nonchalantly to the chequered flag because lets face it he is a superb qualifier.
I now it sounds all gloomy and negative but I can't help being a realist. I'm sure there are a few twists and turns yet to affect the championship, but at the moment the signs aren't too good. Just gotta prey the next batch of updates work and allow Fernando to atleast have a straight shoot out with Hamilton without the others getting too involved...

**eugene22n** · 23rd September 2012, 00:03

"Not all the updates we brought here worked as we had expected and hoped for, which certainly hasn't helped. So we must understand why with a view to the rest of the season." - Massa

"Of all the updates we brought here, the only one we did not use was the rear wing, which still needs more development: that means we must improve still further the quality of our work if we want to meet our targets." - Fry

Gotta keep our heads up. Need to bounce back on development.

**FerrariF60** · 23rd September 2012, 02:26

Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan

How I wish our car was strong in traction areas like the F10 was. It seems like a recurring problem that we suffer at the high down-force tracks and sadly the team are not able to get on top of it. Ultimately a winning car is one which fairs well everywhere and also qualifies well. Luckily for Ferrari they have an excellent driver in the form of Fernando, but that's not always enough since it takes both a good car and a good driver to win the championship.
I just hope that Ferrari bring continuous updates that work from here on out because right now we are clearly being out developed by McLaren who recently have a knack of bolting updates on and making them work immediately. It hurts when Ferrari fail to do this and it's even more frustrating when they constantly blame the wind tunnel, even if it might be true.
Personally I don't see any other car taking McLaren's crown as the most dominant car in F1 this season. I reckon they will continue to dominate and only mistakes and misfortune will halt their title charge. So far, from Germany onwards, they have proven to have the best qualifying and race pace and that by a large margin. Ferrari's best chance for a win was at a low downforce track like Monza and they still failed to win. And despite what others think, even if Fernando did get pole I still reckon Hamilton would have won through superior race pace. Red Bull's best chance to get pole was today at Singapore, a high downforce track with twisty slow sections, they too failed like Ferrari and once again McLaren came out on top. Their car is simply good everywhere and my point is that it's going to take a mammoth effort from Ferrari to close down that performance gap but also to finish close behind Lewis in all races. The task is made even harder when you have possibly Button and Red Bull taking points off Fernando whilst Hamilton is marching nonchalantly to the chequered flag because lets face it he is a superb qualifier.
I now it sounds all gloomy and negative but I can't help being a realist. I'm sure there are a few twists and turns yet to affect the championship, but at the moment the signs aren't too good. Just gotta prey the next batch of updates work and allow Fernando to atleast have a straight shoot out with Hamilton without the others getting too involved...

+1....

on the whole thing...i couldn't have put it any better myself

**anupa2k** · 23rd September 2012, 05:08

"Honestly, it would have been difficult to expect more from this qualifying. Of all the updates we brought here, the only one we did not use was the rear wing, which still needs more development: that means we must improve still further the quality of our work if we want to meet our targets.

So this indicates that other all updates worked well. The gap at hungary was between 0.8-1 sec. and Today even having updates its 1-1.4s even it shows as 0.9s but hamilton did not put together the final lap so it would have been almost 1.2.

So even if we get that rear wing working will it give us 1- 1.2s..? i don`t think so....its going to be a tough last 6 races for Ferrari...
And If Fernando lose the championship its all Ferrari to blame for again....

They took the young driver test and tested nothing apart from correlation between wind tunnel and track data...still fail to match the simulator and ontrack data...

When we will see a Ferrari dominating a Race as Mclaren does...It has been 4yrs now we have not seen Ferrari dominating a single race....

**dmkevin** · 23rd September 2012, 06:48

I can feel the frustration from all of you and I am too... My view on the situation is that ferrari won't catch the leaders. Macca and red bull will still be faster come end of season. We will just have to count on Lady luck to get Alonso the WDC. The reason is that, ferrari fundamentally built a bad car so at the beginning the room for improvement was big, so when we brought the COPIED upgrades they happen to work and gave a big improvement. SF copied macca, sauber and RBR on different front and got the updates to work. Now they have reached a point whereby they can't copy anymore as the car is quite different to others, specially around the exhaust, diffuser and coke bottle area, meaning they have to innovate and this is where they are hitting the brick wall. Think about it, since they brought the big upgrade package with the new exhaust- following upgrades have not worked at all. FW- three races , just testing. did not work. I believe in what pat fry said, ferrari processes, from designing, selecting, building etc... are flawed. I believe these guys cannot get their CFD/Wind tunnel correlation right and this is purely based on what they have been doing in the past. Ferrari never concentrated on the aerodynamics that much, they spend lots of time getting the mechanical side of the car to work really well - mech grip whereas the aerodynamics were always behind.... when have you seen an aerodynamic innovative solution from Ferrari???"STILL THINKING". A wave of upgrades for singapore of which only one was not used still didn't bring us close to the front. Even Williams was faster than us!!! crazy... So i believe these updates didn't deliver much or whatever they delivered was outweighed by the minor development from the other teams... It will take time to get these thing sorted out... the more SF try with new upgrades and they don't work the more they will be able to understand the WHY... I hope that they will get this sorted out by end of season... if not expect 2013 to be another year of having a donkey car!!!
These issue with wind tunnel, CFD and simulators correlation are very common in F1 even with the big teams. Remember macca also brought lots of updates before and they didn't work earlier in the season but they have a better process that ferrari to rectify the problem. That is where SF need to work on and what pat fry sort of stated at the beginning of the season.
Hope we have a good race!!!

**SoumyaBanerjee** · 23rd September 2012, 07:56

I think we need another massive overhaul of our technical team....we've been a little better than a mid-grid team this year,and such performance is shocking when you take Ferrari's massive budget into account....forget this year's championship,i doubt whether we will have a good car for next year if this goes on...tbh,ferrari have never really been on top of things after the great founder's death,excepting the years when the dream team was in charge.....there needs to be a lot of introspection regarding the overall direction being taken by the technical team. An immediate dip was noticed soon after Domenicali became TP. In 2008,we had an excellent car,but luck and strategy-related errors saw us lose a close WDC...we nevertheless won the WCC because of the strength of our package....but ever since then,excepting for 2010,they've been generating duds...and even the 2010 car was no world beater,and they had begun developing it after July 2009....oh well,no point in continuing this useless rant,we'll probably see Fry or Tombazis sacked for their pains while dud after dud gets produced under the leadership of our great team principal....

**Rob** · 23rd September 2012, 08:04

Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee

I think we need another massive overhaul of our technical team....we've been a little better than a mid-grid team this year,and such performance is shocking when you take Ferrari's massive budget into account....forget this year's championship,i doubt whether we will have a good car for next year if this goes on...tbh,ferrari have never really been on top of things after the great founder's death,excepting the years when the dream team was in charge.....there needs to be a lot of introspection regarding the overall direction being taken by the technical team. An immediate dip was noticed soon after Domenicali became TP. In 2008,we had an excellent car,but luck and strategy-related errors saw us lose a close WDC...we nevertheless won the WCC because of the strength of our package....but ever since then,excepting for 2010,they've been generating duds...and even the 2010 car was no world beater,and they had begun developing it after July 2009....oh well,no point in continuing this useless rant,we'll probably see Fry or Tombazis sacked for their pains while dud after dud gets produced under the leadership of our great team principal....

So you dont think the team have done brilliant job to turn the car around from winter testing??

**Greig** · 23rd September 2012, 08:08

Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee

I think we need another massive overhaul of our technical team....we've been a little better than a mid-grid team this year,and such performance is shocking when you take Ferrari's massive budget into account....forget this year's championship,i doubt whether we will have a good car for next year if this goes on...tbh,ferrari have never really been on top of things after the great founder's death,excepting the years when the dream team was in charge.....there needs to be a lot of introspection regarding the overall direction being taken by the technical team. An immediate dip was noticed soon after Domenicali became TP. In 2008,we had an excellent car,but luck and strategy-related errors saw us lose a close WDC...we nevertheless won the WCC because of the strength of our package....but ever since then,excepting for 2010,they've been generating duds...and even the 2010 car was no world beater,and they had begun developing it after July 2009....oh well,no point in continuing this useless rant,we'll probably see Fry or Tombazis sacked for their pains while dud after dud gets produced under the leadership of our great team principal....

Every post you make is negative.

F1 evolves we can't expect to be winning every year and have a hissy fit if someone is better than us, sooner you accept that maybe it will be easier for you to support Ferrari. Even the dream team took multiple years to bring it all together. You would probably have wanted Todt etc sacked in 1996.

**FrankAlfa** · 23rd September 2012, 08:39

I just read the last 9 or 10 comments on this post and I have to laugh. Don't people understand that the last few 10's are the hardest to get? Ferrari started in a difficult position this year but bounced back quite well and they have one driver leading the Driver's Championship. That is pretty good in anyone's book! Let it be clear, Ferrari does NOT SPEND the MOST and they DO NOT have the biggest team. That title goes to the Red Bull Team! McLaren and Ferrari are both on the same level. In the end we have all teams fighting for the last 5 / 10's of a second and that is where we are now. Formula One IS a Step By Step process. Ferrari have a Very Strong Technical Staff and they are working hard. Finding solutions to the Downforce vs. Drag model are NOT easy to come by and it takes many hours of calculations and simulated modeling to find solutions!

No, Ferrari need not make huge changes to the team. They just need more time to work on solutions.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

**Retroblue** · 23rd September 2012, 08:41

Originally Posted by Greig

Every post you make is negative.

F1 evolves we can't expect to be winning every year and have a hissy fit if someone is better than us, sooner you accept that maybe it will be easier for you to support Ferrari. Even the dream team took multiple years to bring it all together. You would probably have wanted Todt etc sacked in 1996.

It took Todt, Brawn and MSC combination four years to work whereas at the start they set their goal to be the world champ within 5 years. So, realistically speaking, sacking will create more problems in the future. We should let this team settle down and our time is not that far away.

**Grillo** · 23rd September 2012, 11:09

I think main problem is that McLaren have done a great job developing the car. We all knew it would be tough if one car/driver kept winning consistently and it looks McLaren is ahead with a very competitive car everywhere. I hope Maldonado win today.

**SoumyaBanerjee** · 23rd September 2012, 14:46

Originally Posted by Rob

So you dont think the team have done brilliant job to turn the car around from winter testing??

So who designs Ferrari's cars?? McLaren??? Why was the car such a disaster at the start of the season??? Look,i know that all this negativity is very frustrating,but its true that the SF technical team hasnt done as good a job as those of McLaren or Red Bull since perhaps 2009. And thats a FACT....

**Greig** · 23rd September 2012, 14:49

Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee

So who designs Ferrari's cars?? McLaren??? Why was the car such a disaster at the start of the season??? Look,i know that all this negativity is very frustrating,but its true that the SF technical team hasnt done as good a job as those of McLaren or Red Bull since perhaps 2009. And thats a FACT....

And you repeating it every day will somehow change it?

Boring.

**dongtea** · 23rd September 2012, 16:07

Not only frustrating mate, it doesn't help anyone

So will you please stop it for goodness sake

**Rob** · 23rd September 2012, 16:37

Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee

So who designs Ferrari's cars?? McLaren??? Why was the car such a disaster at the start of the season??? Look,i know that all this negativity is very frustrating,but its true that the SF technical team hasnt done as good a job as those of McLaren or Red Bull since perhaps 2009. And thats a FACT....

**diesel08** · 23rd September 2012, 17:25

Originally Posted by FrankAlfa

I just read the last 9 or 10 comments on this post and I have to laugh. Don't people understand that the last few 10's are the hardest to get? Ferrari started in a difficult position this year but bounced back quite well and they have one driver leading the Driver's Championship. That is pretty good in anyone's book! Let it be clear, Ferrari does NOT SPEND the MOST and they DO NOT have the biggest team. That title goes to the Red Bull Team! McLaren and Ferrari are both on the same level. In the end we have all teams fighting for the last 5 / 10's of a second and that is where we are now. Formula One IS a Step By Step process. Ferrari have a Very Strong Technical Staff and they are working hard. Finding solutions to the Downforce vs. Drag model are NOT easy to come by and it takes many hours of calculations and simulated modeling to find solutions!

No, Ferrari need not make huge changes to the team. They just need more time to work on solutions.

Ciao.

Forza Ferrari!!!!

True!Ferrari is a very strong team!The F2012 car is new they need time and our suport.

**Golfsmith** · 23rd September 2012, 18:07

Guys I don't want to be negative.I see 2012 are going to be a repeat of 2010,Titel lost due to not making the car fast for Alonso.

The cars race pace was bad today,no speed,not on the pace,car cant fight on the front just dropping back,seeing bad things for the rest of the season.

That bridgestone guy wat's his purpose at Ferrari as I don't see him helping to solve tyre issues with the team and all this upgrades seem to downgrade our team.

Do the team need more experienced personal with fresh ideas to take them to the front or are the equipment to develop the cars outdated or are they just copping the others.
Did Pat Fry not hire a lot of techical people to solve this issue.

Where are the 'BIG UPGRADES' we hear and never see on the cars to take them to the front.Don't want to hear about this 'next year' we hear every time.

One thing that the team showed all the other was the introduction of the front suspension that I think a lot of cars will have with the lower noses for next year.

The team need to work harder to get the results to make all of them and us proud of the name FERRARI.

Where's our South African born Rory Byrne to help the team where they need to be at the front,the last I remember was 2004,look like we will always play catch up to the other runners.

Supporting the team since I was a young boy in 79 when South African Jody Scheckter win the title for Ferrari and will newer support another team.

Good luck for the next race I'm behind you all the time.

**SoumyaBanerjee** · 23rd September 2012, 18:27

Originally Posted by Rob

I can understand why my posts are boring,they're reiterations of the same doomsday predictions,and trust me,i ll be no less happier if we see SF churning out upgrades which really work...from what i hear,the FW along with the RW models was flown back to Maranello,do you have any further info on it?? This question is open to everyone..

**eddie** · 23rd September 2012, 18:30

Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee

So who designs Ferrari's cars?? McLaren??? Why was the car such a disaster at the start of the season??? Look,i know that all this negativity is very frustrating,but its true that the SF technical team hasnt done as good a job as those of McLaren or Red Bull since perhaps 2009. And thats a FACT....

Have faith mate. We sometimes make developments which are +1. Our competition makes them +2. So we are where we are today.

It wont be the same in the next races, so it aint over till its over.

We have a good chance this year; The Maccas are taking points off RBs and vice versa.

Not the same as in 2010 where the RBs were dominant.

Have faith. Our guys are working at the factory...

**Rob** · 23rd September 2012, 18:41

Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee

I can understand why my posts are boring,they're reiterations of the same doomsday predictions,and trust me,i ll be no less happier if we see SF churning out upgrades which really work...from what i hear,the FW along with the RW models was flown back to Maranello,do you have any further info on it?? This question is open to everyone..

when the team are happy to race the new wings they will race them, trust me. Theres nothing better to run the parts at the track and see, instead of relying on simulator. In the good old days with unlimited testing we would of tested these parts all week to get the results and then introduce them at the race.

**Kiwi Nick** · 23rd September 2012, 18:54

Too many posters here seem to forget that all of the other teams are working just as hard as Ferrari to improve their cars. Macca and the Bulls have obviously been doing a very good job of that. What you need to realize is that it is Ferrari's reliability and Alonso's skill that are keeping him atop the WDC standings. Absent the mechanical failures that have hit Macca and Red Bull, Alonso might well be in 3rd or 4th place in the standings. Let's hear some congrats for the guys who make Ferrari the most reliable car in F1.

**Rob** · 23rd September 2012, 18:56

Originally Posted by Kiwi Nick

Too many posters here seem to forget that all of the other teams are working just as hard as Ferrari to improve their cars. Macca and the Bulls have obviously been doing a very good job of that. What you need to realize is that it is Ferrari's reliability and Alonso's skill that are keeping him atop the WDC standings. Absent the mechanical failures that have hit Macca and Red Bull, Alonso might well be in 3rd or 4th place in the standings. Let's hear some congrats for the guys who make Ferrari the most reliable car in F1.

Exactly, people seem to forget how hard the team have been working to make the car quicker and reliable.

**Dino** · 23rd September 2012, 20:05

Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee

I can understand why my posts are boring,they're reiterations of the same doomsday predictions,and trust me,i ll be no less happier if we see SF churning out upgrades which really work...from what i hear,the FW along with the RW models was flown back to Maranello,do you have any further info on it?? This question is open to everyone..

Most of us on this forum know that Ferrari needs to improve the car to make life easier for Alonso.
Please let me remind you that this car was lacking traction out of slow corners from day one!!
The Team have come a long way to improve that but today's race clearly showed we still struggle a little on these type of point and squirt tracks.
The car will be better for the races coming up because of the different set up requirments.And i really doubt if we will need that rear wing again!!
I feel it was a last effort to get some traction at Singapore.
Still i think the Team and drivers did a good job today.