Thread: Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

  1. #4351
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    actually the circled parts are called vortex generators....their function is to produce vortices to keep airflow attached on the top surface of the sidepod to produce a better downwash effect and push the exhaust slightly more towards the diffuser... this said they will probably only bring a very small amount of performance...there are other areas where you can gain more performance from! i am sure ferrari has evaluated such parts but and maybe dicided not to use them or will use them in a latter upgrade

    edit: in addition they slightly reduce the lift produced by the leading edge of the sidepods.. but this effect gives no gain because of the slight lift that will be produced by the vortices..
    Last edited by amouzouris; 27th October 2012 at 14:25.

  2. #4352
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    Quote Originally Posted by amouzouris View Post
    actually the circled parts are called vortex generators....their function is to produce vortices to keep airflow attached on the top surface of the sidepod to produce a better downwash effect and push the exhaust slightly more towards the diffuser... this said they will probably only bring a very small amount of performance...there are other areas where you can gain more performance from! i am sure ferrari has evaluated such parts but and maybe dicided not to use them or will use them in a latter upgrade

    edit: in addition they slightly reduce the lift produced by the leading edge of the sidepods.. but this effect gives no gain because of the slight lift that will be produced by the vortices..
    later upgrade? Alonso starting 5th tomorrow nd only 3 races to go after India
    if it continues Alonso's title hopes will be gone.....i dont knw but i think Alonso have already given up, he do seemed relaxed today
    Abu Dhabi next and its Vettel's track cant say abt USA nd Brazil

  3. #4353
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    Quote Originally Posted by amouzouris View Post
    actually the circled parts are called vortex generators....their function is to produce vortices to keep airflow attached on the top surface of the sidepod to produce a better downwash effect and push the exhaust slightly more towards the diffuser... this said they will probably only bring a very small amount of performance...there are other areas where you can gain more performance from! i am sure ferrari has evaluated such parts but and maybe dicided not to use them or will use them in a latter upgrade

    edit: in addition they slightly reduce the lift produced by the leading edge of the sidepods.. but this effect gives no gain because of the slight lift that will be produced by the vortices..
    Is Macca's solution better than ours ? They had dominated form Hungary to Singapore.
    Where does RB get such great DF ? Their cars are so strong in corners.
    Why we are so struggling with rear end DF ? Did we have any update parts for the rear end this race ??
    No way we can catch them.

  4. #4354
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1NAC View Post
    the team dissapointed me this weekend .. All these stories about upgrades and 3 straight line tests and we are far away from RB ... we can say after tomorrow that is all over .. We can turn on 2013. with this car Alonso cannot win the WDC. Yeah many of you will say : Let's see and wait for tomorrow maybe vettel DNF or something but we can not rely on someone's unluck.. I hope you all undrestand me .. I am a hardcore fan of Ferrari for 12 years and i believe our time will come , maybe next season . I am looking forward tomorrow at least finish in front of Maccas
    Tbh, I'm a little disappointed too. But I think we disappointed ourselves by believing all those false stories from Autosprint and getting our hopes up. Next time we should just wait and see what updates Ferrari really brings to the track before dreaming about great improvements.

  5. #4355
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    There was a new diffuser this weekend to improve rear end downforce, one of the reasons Ferrari might not be using the vg's is because our sidepods are not as steep as McLaren's and definitely not as steep as Red Bull's. For the exact same reason, RB and McL are probably using the exhaust gases more efficiently and the bodywark housing the exhaust is still blocking airflow to the beam wing although not as much as the original acer ducts...it seems that this problem is inherited with this year's sidepod design and would need a major redesign to be fixed

  6. #4356
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    AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH! STAY AWAY GUYS, IT ISN'T SAFE!!!

    This is POSITIVITY. Handle with caution.

    Alonso said his confidence was based on the fact that Red Bull's advantage only seems to be clear in qualifying, with its race pace not that far ahead of Ferrari.

    "I think they are dominant on Saturday and they have the fastest car at the moment, so they are first and second," explained Alonso. "It was first position for Webber in Korea and pole position here for Vettel, so they are dominant as a team performance.

    "But I think on Sunday normally our pace improved a little bit and we saw in Korea also that we were putting some pressure on Webber especially, so let's wait for tomorrow.

    "I think we can do a good race. I still think that we can take some good points and hopefully score more points than Seb and, in the next races, be a little bit more competitive.

    "But the first target is to finish in front of them tomorrow and I think we have chances to do it."

    Alonso says it is no surprise that Ferrari was still behind Red Bull, because it had not yet introduced planned big updates that it needs to close the deficit.

    "I think we have improved our car and we are making the car faster, especially in this race, just not in the last few grands prix. But this I think happened to every team.

    "You need to put something big on your car when you are not the fastest. You need to have a bigger update and what we have here in India was a small upgrade – we are waiting for some new parts coming in the next races and hopefully we can be close to Red Bull that at the moment is very dominant.
    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103800


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  7. #4357
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    It will be too late if we bring the big update to Texas. If Vettel wins the next 2 races and Alonso comes third (which won't be easy for Alonso) then we will be 26 points behind. Vettel will just need to match Alonso's score in Texas and he will be champion with a race to spare.

  8. #4358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso84 View Post
    Tbh, I'm a little disappointed too. But I think we disappointed ourselves by believing all those false stories from Autosprint and getting our hopes up. Next time we should just wait and see what updates Ferrari really brings to the track before dreaming about great improvements.
    Agree. That would prevent so much emotional turmoil and confusion.
    (there's always the chance of suspense killing me though )

  9. #4359
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjoko-mkd View Post
    Ferari have to put those aero elements.I think those parts canalized air to exhaust and helps Coanda effect to put down the hot air from exhaust to bottom of the car.

    Oh yea... the Flex on the RB8's FW compare to the F2012's, did not notice that before! How do they manage? I mean RB's got a better space program than most countries on earth, don't need to go figure too far to understand than their research department is massive.

    "I cannot judge what he did in his time at Renault and McLaren but I have worked with World Champions Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen and Fernando is the one who impresses me the most," said Gene.

  10. #4360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso84 View Post
    Tbh, I'm a little disappointed too. But I think we disappointed ourselves by believing all those false stories from Autosprint and getting our hopes up. Next time we should just wait and see what updates Ferrari really brings to the track before dreaming about great improvements.
    This +2. The speculation between Korea and India seems to have had a really bad impact on the forum. Loads of misinformation was being used against Ferrari today and caused a lot of arguments. The true picture of ferrari's efforts has been lost somewhere, and they deserve some credit. It's sad to see this. It could have been avoided.

    Also so said today we have more to come. Fingers crossed.

  11. #4361
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    If you really think about it, its been a miracle we have even been in championship contention this year, considering the car has on average been 8 tenths from pole, and not once even been the fastest car, and only been equal fastest maybe once or twice. In reality its been 4th best car this season, and without the wet weekends, Alonso would not have won a single race or led the championship. The results have been a result of scraping and fighting against monumental odds. This was possible for a while but was never going to last over 20 races, when the natural order will eventually be restored as it has. Alonso did his part but in the end the car was just not good enough.

    The true extent of Ferraris technical problems has been hidden this season by Alonso's genius. Just imagine if he was not there, and Massa was the benchmark, because thats the true reality of the situation. Even now with an 'improved' car its still at 2009 levels, when the car was widely called a dog. The worrying thing is there is no reason to feel confident for next year, infact Im scared to death about what our engineers will produce.

  12. #4362
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    I have been talking about turning elements on the surface of the sidepods since the season started! Take the Boundary Air aznd use it to its best advantage! I have been saying this over and over again! Ferrari ar in a vacuum and do not see the potential of the race car! Every aspect of the car should be centered on Maximum Grip and Downforce with everything else secondary! Red Bull is leading so many races because they have the most DOWNFORCE!!!! Then on top of that they have High Speed "Flexing Wings" that reduce DRAG!!!!!

    In my eyes, this is not the most difficult equation to solve and what Ferrari needs is a new Chief Designer to lead a new HIGH DOWNFORCE DESIGN and not just a timid radical step of change for the sake of change! This years race car has failed to deliver yet another Championship in the Driver's or the Constructor's Championships~! This is fact! Ferrari must embrace every design idea element and use them ALL at then same time! This is about Ferrrari not being timid and actually leading the Design Standard and not having other teams beat them to it. Tombazis is the I see as the Design Leader that has failed and has no idea what to do! It is his shoulders that the Design Issues of the raca car rests! Pat Fry is a "Manager" and not involved in the "Design" aspect of the race car. I don't like what I see at the moment and Tombazis is the issue just as Costa was before him. The people just don't know how to advance a design rapidly. McLaren is simillar to Ferrari in the Design & Development Department. Both teams lack the ability to advance the race car. Red Bull on the other hand were quite far behind in the beginning of the season and now they are leading everyone be a PRETTY BIG MARGIN! Ferrari needs just one thing : DOWNFORCE, DOWNFORCE DOWNFORCE!!!! The team needs a STRONG TEAM PRINCIPLE!!!!! Hire someone like a Chip Ganassi and get this team on track!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  13. #4363
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    The baseline of the F2012 race car is not on par with the Red Bull and a much more complex race car is required to challenge Red Bull. This is an issue of the "Initial Design" and the "Development Phase" of the F2012 race car being the problema nd not being enough! In the end of the day, Ferrari did not go far enough on the off season with their Initial Design and they have less to work with now. Ferrari Is way behind Red Bull in the Development Phase of the season and the race car because of aq poor initial design and lesser tools available to develop this race car. Next year like last year and the year before that can not be a continuation of the situation. Change in many forms must take place AGAIN! The last 5 / 10's of a lap in the race car, at this time of year, each and every season for the past few season has been the problem to correct! Luca MUST correct this for next year!!!!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  14. #4364
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    Meanwhile, Technical Director Pat Fry stressed to Sky Sports F1's Ted Kravitz that Ferrari's development push will continue unabated."We've just got to keep on developing it. We've got another few updates coming for Abu Dhabi and then some more for America. So it's not over yet and we're going to keep pushing them as hard as we can," he said.
    "If we can improve our qualifying position...we make it too easy for Sebastian at the moment. He's away and cruising. We need to put him under pressure so hopefully we will be doing it in Abu Dhabi
    http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/...medium=twitter

    so we have updates..we will see..

  15. #4365
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  16. #4366
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    Felipe had older diffuser for the Q and the race, could that partly explain his slower driving compared to Fernando?


  17. #4367
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacc View Post
    Felipe had older diffuser for the Q and the race, could that partly explain his slower driving compared to Fernando?
    Well it certainly didn't give him an advantage, that's for sure.

  18. #4368
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    I have been talking about turning elements on the surface of the sidepods since the season started! Take the Boundary Air aznd use it to its best advantage! I have been saying this over and over again! Ferrari ar in a vacuum and do not see the potential of the race car! Every aspect of the car should be centered on Maximum Grip and Downforce with everything else secondary! Red Bull is leading so many races because they have the most DOWNFORCE!!!! Then on top of that they have High Speed "Flexing Wings" that reduce DRAG!!!!!

    In my eyes, this is not the most difficult equation to solve and what Ferrari needs is a new Chief Designer to lead a new HIGH DOWNFORCE DESIGN and not just a timid radical step of change for the sake of change! This years race car has failed to deliver yet another Championship in the Driver's or the Constructor's Championships~! This is fact! Ferrari must embrace every design idea element and use them ALL at then same time! This is about Ferrrari not being timid and actually leading the Design Standard and not having other teams beat them to it. Tombazis is the I see as the Design Leader that has failed and has no idea what to do! It is his shoulders that the Design Issues of the raca car rests! Pat Fry is a "Manager" and not involved in the "Design" aspect of the race car. I don't like what I see at the moment and Tombazis is the issue just as Costa was before him. The people just don't know how to advance a design rapidly. McLaren is simillar to Ferrari in the Design & Development Department. Both teams lack the ability to advance the race car. Red Bull on the other hand were quite far behind in the beginning of the season and now they are leading everyone be a PRETTY BIG MARGIN! Ferrari needs just one thing : DOWNFORCE, DOWNFORCE DOWNFORCE!!!! The team needs a STRONG TEAM PRINCIPLE!!!!! Hire someone like a Chip Ganassi and get this team on track!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    Agreed...Ferrari needs Pat Symonds....
    AKROCKS

  19. #4369
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    I have been very critical of the SF engineers/chief recently and i have to admit that i was just getting carried away by the lack of working upgrades... But in fact i would like to retract some of my really harsh and negative comments. Reason being after analysing the development progress, SF have actually done really good job with a car that i believe was flawed on the aero side... But what the guys have done to get this car to where it is now must not be left aside, yes we are not the fastest car, yes alonso made the car looked better sometimes. but even him cannot make a bad car go faster... hence the car has to be good provided its driven in a certain way. One thing that actually initiated this new optimistic view for the future is the FW... most teams have really complex FW, we ferrari have the simplest one and it seems that it works better than others!!! I have asked myself this ? so many times. why is their FW so simple, could it be bcos of our front suspension that we dont need the complexity to get the flow to where we want... so i guess it does have aero advan then!! second is how with this bad side pod we are still getting the car to work really well. in india we were 2nd fastest in race or on par with RB. if SF get this car to go faster than RB or close to RB in quali with same sidepod, FW philo and exhaust... i would say that SF engineers are even better than RBs and that brings hope for next year!!! imagine what we could do with new sidepod and exhaust. I hope that they push the boundary in terms of innovation next year!!! forza ferrari

  20. #4370
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    From F1Total::

    Ferrari is expected to introduce new parts in the upcoming Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, which will be put on both the drivers’ cars.
    I Will End My Career At Ferrari...

  21. #4371
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    Hope these new parts gain us 0.2 - 0.3 secs!
    #KeepFightingMichael | #CiaoJules

  22. #4372
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    Quote Originally Posted by anialonso View Post
    From F1Total::
    No rumours of special fuels,tilted engines,space-age exhausts and pushrod suspensions from autosprint,then???

  23. #4373
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoumyaBanerjee View Post
    No rumours of special fuels,tilted engines,space-age exhausts and pushrod suspensions from autosprint,then???
    Those rumours will definitely come after Abu Dhabi...
    I Will End My Career At Ferrari...

  24. #4374
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    Ferrari, 'top secret'
    "This is not over yet," warns his counterpart Pat Fry Newey.

    Ferrari makers have decided to change its policy of communication about what has been the trend of the season in the types of improvements that will have your car by the end of the championship. Stefano Domenicali was sealed when asked India several times for the planned developments in Abu Dhabi and F2012 for Austin, in three weeks.

    PAT FRY
    "We have to improve on Saturday, Vettel s elo do this easily"
    "We will try in every race to have the best car possible and give our best," he says in a cryptic way home. Fernando Alonso also said he expected new pieces for upcoming appointments and his chief he inquired as to whether specific parts will be new or modifying old ones, as has happened in the recent race India. "We'll see. The goal is to always be better. As I said a while now, the important thing is to bring developments to the car. The rest, we will see and we will value in court, that's what counts," he stresses.

    In this sense, the head of the Scuderia recognized that there will be a next test aerodynamic, the last of the four Ferrari's remaining this year, but not added any details. "I do not remember when." Point to mouth. Creating Uncertainty The strategy may be a way to create uncertainty about the rivals, in a section in which the nerves and bad decisions can occur in any of the favorites. "Not just us, our opponents not sleep, can not. We must maintain this kind of pressure with our adversaries.'ll Change everything you can and see what you can get. And that will not only be in Abu Dhabi, but until the end.'s all we can do right now, "notes Domenicali

    The place to look up for the last three grands prix of the year remains unchanged. "We must find a way to end later in the rating.'s As if one is thirsty and need to drink water, it is clear that we must. Coming from behind, everything is a bit more difficult because, as has happened in past races, provides an opportunity for those in front to mark the passage of career that suits them and create the mattress to manage the rest of the test. since the beginning we put pressure can change the thing. This should be our idea and what we will do in here at the end, "said the Italian.

    More improvements to Austin
    your technical, Pat Fry, also brought more light to the subject. "We must maintain the development. We have small improvements coming to Abu Dhabi and more to America [Austin]. This is not over and we must continue to push as much as we can," he says.

    "If we can continue to improve our position in qualifying ... We make it very easy to Vettel at this time. He is far longer cruise, we put you in trouble and hopefully we can do in Abu Dhabi," says coinciding with Domenicali.

    http://www.marca.com/2012/10/30/moto...351597674.html
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  25. #4375
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    We have small improvements coming to Abu Dhabi and more to America [Austin]. This is not over and we must continue to push as much as we can," he says.

  26. #4376
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    Quote Originally Posted by gjoko-mkd View Post
    We have small improvements coming to Abu Dhabi and more to America [Austin]. This is not over and we must continue to push as much as we can," he says.
    Any kind of updates (small, big) with any kind of progress (0,1 to 0,5 sec) are welcome if they are to help FA and FM to qualify in first two rows. Homework back to the guys at Maranello is make the car capable of reaching 1st or 2nd row in qualifying.

  27. #4377
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    So Ferrari are going for the last Straight line test...good that they are giving it all out...
    I Will End My Career At Ferrari...

  28. #4378
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    Twitter:
    Domenicali adds a new rear wing has been developed and tested in a straightline, but it wont have DDRS.
    Source: http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/f...d-5998166.html

  29. #4379
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    they said before indian gp, they would have a big update to bring, but in reality it was a small update they brought. And now they say small update for abu dhabi this could be mean "no update" they will bring? c'mon!!
    Last edited by mugdoc; 1st November 2012 at 00:32.

    Mai Dare Sulla Speranza, Forza Ferrari!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hombre B View Post

    No DDRS, no pole.

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