If Fernando hadn't crashed...

[theforce]

This is one of those 'What if' threads Firstly I just want to say that I still think Fernando's wing breaking off was due to the turbulence from Webber's car...I mean the wing lasted a whole lap and when Webber passed on the main straight, I guess the extra load on the front wing from the turbulence was too much for the damaged wing. Would it have lasted another few laps if Alonso distanced himself from other drivers or driven slower? (which means falling back through the field, another reason they should've pitted).

Anyway moving on...what I want to get to is if Fernando's wing wasn't damaged and he continued on racing and putting pressure on the Redbulls and maybe even the Mercs later on, would RB and Merc have walked out of Malaysia not red faced? I mean Alonso pressuring both teams would have exposed their weakness and forced each of RB/Merc driver to push harder and maybe even cost them an extra stop resulting in no team orders hence no big drama in F1.

Another thing, despite what Lewis and Ross say, team order is team order. Most if not a lot of Mclaren (or other F1) fans dislike/d Fernando due to his alleged No.1 driver request in 2007, what do they have to say after Malaysia?

[Massimo]

Fact is, his wing was damaged, we can only guess what would've happened.
Look at it from the bright side, Ferrari had the b*lls to take a risk, so clearly the mindset is on winning races this year, where last year it was damage control.
On the other subject, Vettel won 7 points, but lost a lot more.
I think the Mercedes cars were both critically fuelled, Lewis chased the Red Bull's earlier in the race so he had to save, Rosberg was probably a little better, but not enough to go after Red Bull, so the best thing was to be safe and bring both cars home, Ross made a good call i think, of course the German stake holders might think different, but Ross is not there for the stakeholders, he's there for the results.

[number 13]

I think what Ferrari and Fernando did was the right thing for me.They gambled for a better result,it didn't pay off so they ended up out of the race.
At least Fernando now has this engine with less mileage than all the others and this might help him in future races to push more.
Everyone makes mistakes and im not saying that Fernando crashed onto Vettel intentionally but stuff like that happens all the time.

Forza Ferrari

[F2002]

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formul...ero+vincere%3F

These guys are asking your same question, @theforce, the article is very insightful and worth Google translating if you can't read Italian.

[Senna4Ever]

what ... if ...

:) we would discuss here if Massa wasn't allowed to finish before Alonso or not ...

[NickEice]

Ferrari had the b*lls to take a risk, so clearly the mindset is on winning races this year, where last year it was damage control.

Maybe the "Damage Control" mindset is what kept us in the championship until the last race with a poor car last year. This mistake could prove costly.

[mark p]

Everyone makes a glairing error of judgement that sat watching tv seems obvious. as long as its no more than once. abu ahabi 2010, canada 2012 and this. i could see ir being bad straight away why could they not hear me shouting? Ferrari will win next 2 races with a 1 2 in one of them, hopefully one is a massa win as well.

[aroutis]

I think that we need to show some b@lls this year and frankly I am happy we took the chance for once.

I am not having regrets for this nor do I believe this is a mistake, and I don't think the team are weeping over this either.

Roll on the next race ;)

[Kingdom Hearts]

what ... if ...

:) we would discuss here if Massa wasn't allowed to finish before Alonso or not ...

Go and watch the first race, they are allowed to race.

[FA fan]

Everyone makes a glairing error of judgement that sat watching tv seems obvious. as long as its no more than once. abu ahabi 2010, canada 2012 and this. i could see ir being bad straight away why could they not hear me shouting? Ferrari will win next 2 races with a 1 2 in one of them, hopefully one is a massa win as well.

Well on both the incidents you mentioned,Alonso was not to be blame,but clipping his front wing was Alonso fault,and not the teams fault! And you can say if wasn't for this Single mistakes in 2010 and 2012 Alonso could have won the title;) so sometimes each mistake counts,and sometimes can be the difference between losing or wininng the
Championship..let's hope this time this mistake doesn't stand between him losing the championship..

[Senna4Ever]

Go and watch the first race, they are allowed to race.

Sorry that the sarcasm in my posting isn't obvious enough.
And when you look into the Australian race thread and also in some other forums some might know that the undercut of Alonso was the way Ferrari played team tactics and brought Alonso ahead of Massa.

And 80% of the postings of last Sunday had only one topic ...

So only thing I wanted to say is: that we would have also discussed this Alonso Massa thing here if Alonso would have finished the race ...

and not discussing:
- why we were a second behind in qualifying
- why we were slow in the beginning and fast only in the final stage of the race

Those two questions bother me more than which of our driver was ahead of the other ....

[Tifoso]

Wow, this is almost literally a "if the bear hadn't stopped to ---- he'd have won the race" thread.

[SilverSpeed]

if
if
if
...

We'll never know now!

[sagi58]

... despite what Lewis and Ross say, team order is team order. Most if not a lot of Mclaren (or other F1) fans dislike/d Fernando due to his alleged No.1 driver request in 2007, what do they have to say after Malaysia?

I understand exactly what you're asking; however,

~> McLaren fans would tell you that it's not McLaren that made the call...
~> Hamilton fans, on the other hand, would say it wasn't his call...

...Look at it from the bright side, Ferrari had the b*lls to take a risk, so clearly the mindset is on winning races this year, where last year it was damage control...

I realize that this DNF "may" come back to haunt us; but, after reading your comment,
I am happy and satisfied that Ferrari is indeed doing "everything" they can, even if it means we
have to suffer through a few growing pains!!!

Forza Ferrari!!!

[sagi58]

If Alonso hadn't crashed, his good friend, Webber wouldn't have been publicly humiliated by his team/teammate!
I find it ironic that, through Webber's experiences at Red Bull, we're seeing more and more of what Alonso must
have gone through that one fateful year at McLaren!

[sagi58]

If Alonso hadn't crashed, we wouldn't have been entertained by the explanations both Red Bull and Mercedes have offered regarding their respective team orders.

I realize that both Vettel and Hamilton "apologized" on their own behalf; but, in the end BOTH of them profitted by the respective orders given! BOTH of them had the opportunity to rectify what they believed wasn't the right thing to do (at least, that's what they were apologizing for); however, BOTH chose to do what suited themselves best.

[Nero Horse]

Sorry that the sarcasm in my posting isn't obvious enough.
And when you look into the Australian race thread and also in some other forums some might know that the undercut of Alonso was the way Ferrari played team tactics and brought Alonso ahead of Massa.

There weren't any team tactics, orders or anything in Australia for crying out loud! It was a simply a case of Alonso making a better judgement call and that's it!
Read this article very carefully and memorise it >>> http://www.yallaf1.com/2013/03/22/ma...favour-alonso/

Unless you want to call Massa as "a liar" then I suggest you drop that "team tactics/orders" conspiracy theory! Alonso and Massa are racing each other fair and square as evidenced by the aggressive blocking move that Massa did on Alonso at the start of the Malaysian GP.

[Nero Horse]

If that front wing would've held on for just a few more laps then this decision to keep Alonso out would've been hailed as one of the most brilliant decision of all-time. We have seen many times when someone's front wing is badly damaged but still they manage to keep going and the same thing could've happened with Alonso too. It's easy to criticise this decision in hindsight, but it was a justified risk. Formula 1 is all about taking risks and making split second decisions...sometimes they work in your favor and sometimes they don't. Simple as that.

Like Han said in "The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift" movie: "You make choices and you don't look back."

Forza Ferrari!!!

[theforce]

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formul...ero+vincere%3F

These guys are asking your same question, @theforce, the article is very insightful and worth Google translating if you can't read Italian.

Thanks for linking that article, an interesting read indeed. Also interesting was Felipe's observation of how Fernando manages to look after his rear tyres that bit more

"Fernando throws the car is cornering force and in doing so causes a slight understeer that helps preserve the rear tires" says Felipe

If Alonso hadn't crashed, we wouldn't have been entertained by the explanations both Red Bull and Mercedes have offered regarding their respective team orders.

I realize that both Vettel and Hamilton "apologized" on their own behalf; but, in the end BOTH of them profitted by the respective orders given! BOTH of them had the opportunity to rectify what they believed wasn't the right thing to do (at least, that's what they were apologizing for); however, BOTH chose to do what suited themselves best.

Correctomondo...that's what Gerhard was saying.

Another former F1 driver Gerhard Berger warns that sometimes you have to be "extremely selfish" to win World Championships.

"If you remember back in history these things always happen," he told BBC Radio Five Live. "To be a race winner you need to be very, very talented but to be a World Champion, or to be World Champion three, four, five times, you need to be extremely selfish.

"These boys have such a big killing instinct. In these moments they are stressed by the situation, they just cannot follow their brain, they just do what their instincts are telling them.

"So, of course, after the race he is saying he is very sorry about it and that he cannot sleep, [but] I think he sleeps very well because this is his nature. But on the other side, this is part of his success. And nobody, no team, no team chief, no team-mate, nobody is going to change it."

Seb probably thought I'll make the move and get away with an apology later alongside some extra points but the fact that he tried to sound like he knew nothing of the situation after race is really a very low point.

[Senna4Ever]

There weren't any team tactics, orders or anything in Australia for crying out loud! It was a simply a case of Alonso making a better judgement call and that's it!
Read this article very carefully and memorise it >>> http://www.yallaf1.com/2013/03/22/ma...favour-alonso/

Unless you want to call Massa as "a liar" then I suggest you drop that "team tactics/orders" conspiracy theory! Alonso and Massa are racing each other fair and square as evidenced by the aggressive blocking move that Massa did on Alonso at the start of the Malaysian GP.

I don't know whats wrong with you 'fratello'?
Whats so hard to understand on the word 'sarcasm'?

On which part of my posting you lost the line and finding me accusing someone here or at the TEAM?

Before you go wild with accuses (I call a Massa "a liar" ...) read this
this or that

Or read my origin posting again ... where I said SOME not I ...
But reading and your own interpretation is completely different to reading and understanding what I've written

[Nick Singer]

If 'ifs and ands' were pots and pans, then we'd all be tinkers..*

*Can we say 'tinkers' these days?

[kiwifella]

If that front wing would've held on for just a few more laps then this decision to keep Alonso out would've been hailed as one of the most brilliant decision of all-time. We have seen many times when someone's front wing is badly damaged but still they manage to keep going and the same thing could've happened with Alonso too. It's easy to criticise this decision in hindsight, but it was a justified risk. Formula 1 is all about taking risks and making split second decisions...sometimes they work in your favor and sometimes they don't. Simple as that.

Like Han said in "The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift" movie: [B]"You make choices and you don't look back."

Forza Ferrari!!!

Exactly, look at Vettels front wing at Abu Dhabi last year, he stayed out, came from behind to score seriously good points that day.

[Liscia]

It was a VERY SILLY MISTAKE to leave Alonso in. It was the FIRST LAP and he could have
ducked into the pits for a new nose as many runners were expected (and did) come in early
due to tire/weather vagaries. Alonso could have rejoined with the rest of race ahead to
recover. I was baffled and disappointed at the needless risk taken and hope this is recognized
within the team and that this kind of inanity isn't repeated - no matter what the official team
statements/excuses stated. VERY GOOFY BEHAVIOR!

[Nero Horse]

I don't know whats wrong with you 'fratello'?
Whats so hard to understand on the word 'sarcasm'?

On which part of my posting you lost the line and finding me accusing someone here or at the TEAM?

Before you go wild with accuses (I call a Massa "a liar" ...) read this
this or that

Or read my origin posting again ... where I said SOME not I ...
But reading and your own interpretation is completely different to reading and understanding what I've written

Yea ok, I misunderstood. It's difficult to tell here whether someone's being sarcastic or serious. I apologize, no hard feelings "fratello".

[wisepie]

There weren't any team tactics, orders or anything in Australia for crying out loud! It was a simply a case of Alonso making a better judgement call and that's it!
Read this article very carefully and memorise it >>> http://www.yallaf1.com/2013/03/22/ma...favour-alonso/

Unless you want to call Massa as "a liar" then I suggest you drop that "team tactics/orders" conspiracy theory! Alonso and Massa are racing each other fair and square as evidenced by the aggressive blocking move that Massa did on Alonso at the start of the Malaysian GP.

Hang on, Nero Horse, I can't see where you're getting Massa's 'aggressive blocking move on Alonso' from, he did move towards Alonso but then eased off and allowed Alonso into the space behind Vettel. Whether that was giving way to Fernando's faster start, better position on track or team tactics, I certainly don't think you can call it aggressive blocking. And it was Alonso's error to hit Vettel (even if I believe Vettel slowed deliberately), in retrospect Alonso should have pitted at the end of the lap and maybe he's have salvaged some points.

[Massimo]

Hang on, Nero Horse, I can't see where you're getting Massa's 'aggressive blocking move on Alonso' from, he did move towards Alonso but then eased off and allowed Alonso into the space behind Vettel. Whether that was giving way to Fernando's faster start, better position on track or team tactics, I certainly don't think you can call it aggressive blocking. And it was Alonso's error to hit Vettel (even if I believe Vettel slowed deliberately), in retrospect Alonso should have pitted at the end of the lap and maybe he's have salvaged some points.

To me it looked more like Massa was leaving the door open for Alonso and blocking the other cars, but i could be wrong of course.

[Nero Horse]

Hang on, Nero Horse, I can't see where you're getting Massa's 'aggressive blocking move on Alonso' from, he did move towards Alonso but then eased off and allowed Alonso into the space behind Vettel. Whether that was giving way to Fernando's faster start, better position on track or team tactics, I certainly don't think you can call it aggressive blocking. And it was Alonso's error to hit Vettel (even if I believe Vettel slowed deliberately), in retrospect Alonso should have pitted at the end of the lap and maybe he's have salvaged some points.

Take a deep breath and calm down please. I wasn't accusing Massa, I only said it because I think it's absolutely great that Massa fought for his position fair and square and didn't just back off to give way to Fernando. My comment wasn't meant as an accusation as you might think, not at all. It's great that both drivers are treated equally and they can race against each other as long as both have a shot at the title.

[Greig]

Massa never made any attempt to block Alonso. And off course the early stop in Aus was to leapfrog Alonso ahead of Massa and Seb.

[Nero Horse]

Massa never made any attempt to block Alonso. And off course the early stop in Aus was to leapfrog Alonso ahead of Massa and Seb.

Fine, there was no blocking move. And nobody is arguing about the fact that the early pit stop by Alonso in Australia was done in order to leapfrog Massa and Vettel, but it certainly wasn't a malicious team order to pull one over Massa as some people seem to think. Fernando just made a better judgement call on the tyres, took the risk and it worked out for him. That's all there's to it.

[Greig]

Never said anyone was arguing, but given our past I would not be shocked that such a decision is made on the pitwall I doubt Alonso made that decision alone.