F2012 Nose, final or not? your view!

[NJB13]

Of course parts of all F1 cars are covered by homolgation (things that can and can't change). Some things are not homolgated, but must still comply with rules. Each homolgated part carries its own rules about how/if/why it can be changed. For example, engines are homolgated but can be changed if the change is needed for reliability reasons.

The monocoque (chassis) is homolgated for each team each year, and, although the front crash test is performed with the centre section of nose attached, the nose itself is not part of the monocoque. As we see at almost every race, the major teams bring changed nose sections. These nose sections must pass separate tests at each race (usually done on Thursdays).

Therefore the nose "can" be changed, but, I think any changes will be adjustments and what I'd call fine tuning.

[Hornet]

I bet that the nose is a project at work. It feels as if it's a naked thing, what they put there for the presentation ,thus the way that bump looked like, and if they did that, they did the right thing.

A much different version should appear , probably at the last test or before the first race. Along with other parts of course.

BTW, about the whole front suspension and why this and that, and why it makes no sense, whoever among us is an aero guy, please raise yer hands now?

..... yeah.

Scarb have already twitted that such orientation of the suspension bar for a pull rod design is not optimize. Maybe you should go take it up with him.

Its not hard to understand that if Ferrari choose to sacrifice an optimize pull rod setup, and yet went with pull rod despite being able to get away with push rod, then they must have something else in mind. This is a common sense deduction.

And suspension isn't all about aero.


We're all free to share our opinion, if you think only an expert can voice their opinion, then you aren't one either. Lets just lock all the threads and we can all go home since none of us are experts.

[Ferrari2183]

Of course parts of all F1 cars are covered by homolgation (things that can and can't change). Some things are not homolgated, but must still comply with rules. Each homolgated part carries its own rules about how/if/why it can be changed. For example, engines are homolgated but can be changed if the change is needed for reliability reasons.

The monocoque (chassis) is homolgated for each team each year, and, although the front crash test is performed with the centre section of note attached, the nose itself is not part of the monocoque. As we see at almost every race, the major teams bring changed nose sections. These nose sections must pass separate tests at each race (usually done on Thursdays).

Therefore the nose "can" be changed, but, I think any changes will be adjustments and what I'd call fine tuning.

Yes, you might see fine tuning but the shape of the step will remain that boxy because the monocoque has passed the test in that shape.

The only way you will see a more rounded or shaped profile is if they have a different monocoque which they plan on racing which has already passed the crash tests.

I think that is a bit of stretch and people should just get over this nose thing instead of hoping for something prettier. Since when is formula 1 a beauty contest?

[Brad-Ferrari]

I think it will change.

They might just revert to the V nose similar to Force India. Can they change the bulkhead midseason?

[Ferrari2183]

Monocoque cannot be changed once the season starts. It might even be once winter testing starts now because a car cannot participate in the tests unless they have passed the crash tests now.

That is why I say it will only change if the current tub is a dummy and the real one is in the factory. Which is strange because the car has been transported as is to the test.

[Brad-Ferrari]

Monocoque cannot be changed once the season starts. It might even be once winter testing starts now because a car cannot participate in the tests unless they have passed the crash tests now.

That is why I say it will only change if the current tub is a dummy and the real one is in the factory. Which is strange because the car has been transported as is to the test.

Are you sure?

Not according to Scarbs.

"Tubs arent fixed for the year, they can homologate a new tub if its crash tested"

[1nfern0]

It could be worse ?

[Katu]

It could be worse ?

no

[Kyss4k]

It could be worse ?

I actually loved that

[Ken]

I am waiting to see what actually runs in Melbourne,

My only comment so far is I am in wonderment trying to understand the Philosophy of some of the parts and their shapes.

As has been said All designed by people who are paid to know better than us :).

I like the theory that its a mock car just to make the other teams think we have lost it totally this year :twisted

But sadly it has to be the Ugliest Ferrari ever.

Roll on Melbourne for the trith :)

[scuderiafan]

in fact, the more i think about it, the more i realise that the F150 was the same. sure, this jumps out at you more, but i didnt like the F150 nose either.

the rest of the body make these cars more good looking, and in fact, this may sound crazy, but i prefer the F2012 nose to the F150 nose.

[Alonsomaniac]

First we had the chin and that was a big success. Now we have the nose......maybe the start of another great era?

[Hornet]

If its any consolation, Ferrari have shown that our nose tip is still as high as last season, so I'm betting that the FIA will tweak the rules again next year to force the nose tip down.

If I recalled correctly, they wanted to reduce the nose tip for safety reason, but so far it seems only McLaren nose tip have been reduced, The other 3 cars unveiled so far including Ferrari still have the nose very high, if not as high as last year.

[Rob]

If its any consolation, Ferrari have shown that our nose tip is still as high as last season, so I'm betting that the FIA will tweak the rules again next year to force the nose tip down.

If I recalled correctly, they wanted to reduce the nose tip for safety reason, but so far it seems only McLaren nose tip have been reduced, The other 3 cars unveiled so far including Ferrari still have the nose very high, if not as high as last year.

high nose helps with the air flow to side pods and underfloor etc etc. I would love to see the old style noses, with front wings low to the track. But the the car being so dependant on aero, this is the best way around it. The bump, may help little bit, in downforce at front and pushing the air up over driver and onto rear wing, may help

[Ferrari2183]

Are you sure?

Not according to Scarbs.

"Tubs arent fixed for the year, they can homologate a new tub if its crash tested"

This is the first I hear of this. Will read up on the regulations again.

[SashAlex]

It could be worse ?

This nose looked weird back then, but definitely not ugly. But they had to change it as the season advanced.

[Stormsearcher]

I think they will tweak it for the first race or sometime soon. Though by how much is anyones guess.
It reminds me of that walrus nose that williams came up with. Not in actual form, but in approach. I hope it doesnt go the same route. We need a winning car. Am sure the designers at maranello know what they are doing, so will save the criticism for later.

[durden]

I love how suddenly people became aerodynamicist and started panicking.

+1

[MarlboroFA]

First we had the chin and that was a big success. Now we have the nose......maybe the start of another great era?

What when did we hire Kubica ?

[aroutis]

Scarb have already twitted that such orientation of the suspension bar for a pull rod design is not optimize. Maybe you should go take it up with him.

Its not hard to understand that if Ferrari choose to sacrifice an optimize pull rod setup, and yet went with pull rod despite being able to get away with push rod, then they must have something else in mind. This is a common sense deduction.

And suspension isn't all about aero.


We're all free to share our opinion, if you think only an expert can voice their opinion, then you aren't one either. Lets just lock all the threads and we can all go home since none of us are experts.

I am sure that Scarbs knows all the plans that Ferrari have in mind...
All I am saying is that so far, all we've seen is the car that Ferrari has presented (same with the other two cars).

Ah, and we know that the car will change till Melbourne. But we do know that there are problems. Right :D Go on :D

[Nova]

@Ken..I dont think its the ugliest Ferrari ever..the overall design is very fluid...its just the different nose that has people
saying that..but if it is the shape of things to come, so be it. I was amazed at the walrus Williams pic'd above, and glad it
didnt work as well as I thought it might. I liked it, but I liked the traditional nose's's of that era a lot more.
I hope theres some way I can get a stream for tests..is that possible?

[Naeem]

On the bump, whilst it will push air up, surely at speed it will push the front end down also... faster cornering :p

[Hornet]

I am sure that Scarbs knows all the plans that Ferrari have in mind...
All I am saying is that so far, all we've seen is the car that Ferrari has presented (same with the other two cars).

Ah, and we know that the car will change till Melbourne. But we do know that there are problems. Right :D Go on :D

Of course it will change, but there's nothing wrong discussing about what we're seeing now.

Things would be boring if all of us just say oh, Ferrari knows best, lets just stare at the car quietly. There is nothing wrong discussing about it, and trying to guess what Ferrari is trying to achieve. There is no such thing a as 100% perfect design, there always have to be compromises even for Ferrari. The efficiency of a pull rod suspension and the hindrance of airflow is basic physics, we cannot change that. So this becomes the basis of our discussion. Its the same thing when we read any analysis online, people merely applying what they know, and try and guess what they don't with logical co-relation.

No one is saying Ferrari made a poor design. We're merely trying to understand why they do so and so, during our free time. And these discussion is the only way of understanding it. Ferrari is not going to reveal all of their secrets, we have to guess them ourself

And its harmless.

[Brad-Ferrari]

This is the first I hear of this. Will read up on the regulations again.

Remember when Mercedes revised their W01 tub design and introduced it at the Spanish GP in 2010. So there is nothing stopping Ferrari changing the tub before the first race or even the final test.

[EL NANO]

i think they will change,its because mclaren proves it,like they can have a solution like f-duct,and ferrari will change the chassis i think i know im been ignore but if ferrari has a secret weapon,chassis will be change it,and that car that we see is just a dummy,i think a 2012 prototype, the actual face of the car is unknown,sorry to my words i predict mclaren has a plan in making the u-pod again if they succeed its a treat to ferrari,i hoping that ferrari will change ther chasssis in test because its like 2011 to me, sorry to my word im not please with that car top to bottom

HUH???? you really think this is all a dummy car to trick the opposition? this IS THE CAR thats it, tell me when have they displayed a car and then totally changed the chasis or "look" 4 weeks later? do you have any idea how much work and talent goes into designing these cars??
we havent even done one mile on the cars and you are also already predicting Mclaren have it right? well i belive Ferrari have it spot on as far as air intake and flow is concerned but we will see wont we... ( unless mclaren have the "real" car hidden somewhere)

On a more serious note, YES I believe this is the car but the front and rear wings will be totally modified before practice in AUS which I have tickets for in my pocket!!

[EL NANO]

Stupid question, but is there a rule that says the car they are presenting has to be the one that was crash tested and the final product? What's to stop a team from releasing a "dummy" just to come with their actual FIA approved car in the first test?

Good question, but has Ferrari or any other team ever done this?? I cannot recall ... anyone?

[EL NANO]

Exactly my point.

Some people on here need to stop with the frantic speculation. Ferrari know much better than the whole lot of us put together, otherwise we'd be working for Ferrari.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, Fry and Tombazis both have mentioned that the car will change quite a lot between now and Melbourne. So let's just wait and see!

What the usually mean " it will change" it would be aero pieces but not the entire nose or chasis... that is absurd...

[MarlboroFA]

here is a nice piece on the nose of the new Ferrari...
it's in Spanish but there is picture explaining it as well..

http://www.rectademeta.com/morros-es...plicacion.html

morro-ferrari-f2012.jpg

[NanoTheQuickest]

here is a nice piece on the nose of the new Ferrari...
it's in Spanish but there is picture explaining it as well..

http://www.rectademeta.com/morros-es...plicacion.html

morro-ferrari-f2012.jpg

Thanks for that. Exactly like wearing a hat in a cab, it will always be blown forward and downward= good way of creating extra downforce and sending the air where it needs to go.... I say it's not pretty but it makes a lot, a lot of sense.

[zeus2]

fer1.jpg
fer2.jpg

How about something like this. (probably not legal and not the best photoshop but atleast looks aggressive )