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Thread: The Reality Of The Situation

  1. #271
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    All I am saying is Ferrari need to look beyond this "loyal servant" tag of Massa. We will never know for sure if any other driver will match FA, but surely you cant have a driver complaining about tires three years in a row...We need two drivers consistently finishing in the points to win either of the championships..

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by meh123 View Post
    All I am saying is Ferrari need to look beyond this "loyal servant" tag of Massa. We will never know for sure if any other driver will match FA, but surely you cant have a driver complaining about tires three years in a row...We need two drivers consistently finishing in the points to win either of the championships..
    Fair enough but to say he has not performed for the last 2 years is a bit wrong, sure 2011 was a terrible season on paper for him, finishing constantly 5th and 6th will win us nothing sorry to say the problem with Ferrari is the car, and it has been the problem since 2009, Ferrari have taken about 5 years to work out how to get the tyres to heat up over a single lap, I am not blaming anyone but the problem for Ferrari is a lot deeper than the no2 driver.
    Forza Ferrari

  3. #273
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    Is it me or is there summat intrinsically wrong with the Tifosi having to defend Ferrari to so-called Ferrari supporters on a freakin' Ferrari forum?

    Especially ones who cantbearsed to base their opinions on facts or relevance to the greater good of the team they purport to support?

    meh!

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Fair enough but to say he has not performed for the last 2 years is a bit wrong, sure 2011 was a terrible season on paper for him, finishing constantly 5th and 6th will win us nothing sorry to say the problem with Ferrari is the car, and it has been the problem since 2009, Ferrari have taken about 5 years to work out how to get the tyres to heat up over a single lap, I am not blaming anyone but the problem for Ferrari is a lot deeper than the no2 driver.

    I can agree with you there in parts ..Ferrari have had their problems on both BS and Pirelli's..At this stage I would put it at 60% Massa 40% Ferrari to blame for the woes. The team should work their a$$es off and make sure we have a great European summer..Wish we could clone drivers!

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by F2008 View Post
    Bahrain 2010: 1. Alonso 2. Massa
    Hockenheim 2010: 1. Alonso 2. Massa
    Monza 2010: 1. Alonso 3. Massa
    Korea 2010: 1. Alonso 3. Massa

    I think Massa proved your point. Unfortunately his car broke down in Singapore Q1. In fact Alonso was only capable of winning when the car was good enough to get Massa on the podium. A good car is what we need right now.
    +1 to this.

    Like a broken record, instead of constantly regurgitating the same pile of garbage, can people just look up stats like that (for those who have short/selective memory) please!

    Come back and tell me when the F2012 has secured its first pole position. Until then people, just stop complaining about Massa!

    The future is RED

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    Is it me or is there summat intrinsically wrong with the Tifosi having to defend Ferrari to so-called Ferrari supporters on a freakin' Ferrari forum?

    Especially ones who cantbearsed to base their opinions on facts or relevance to the greater good of the team they purport to support?

    meh!

    Most mean well and it is constructive balanced criticism, but there is the minority that is the loudest. It comes only when Ferrari is doing badly, then when Ferrari improves, it goes.

    So Felipe and Ferrari just have to concentrate and get there, once it does, everything will be okay.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  7. #277
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    Every monday on RAI(Italian publication/tv) Sport 2 (dedicated sport channel of RAI) there's a very interesting program: Numero 1 which explores issues about F1. After an analysis of the race the main theme is: FELIPE MASSA. They say he's a disaster, Ferrari needs a driver who gets poinst in every race... His pace was much slower than Alonso's. @sabbatini has said Massa has lots of problems and Ferrari needs to replace him with another driver not at the end of the season but NOW! Ferrari could replace Massa with a driver BEFORE the test session in Mugello so he could try the car without the pressure of a race weekend. They finished it off with this Italian statement: Tanto peggio di così non può andare -> Can not get worse.

    This is Italian television with Italian commentators who have no vested interest in either driver, only the team. I'm not saying I agree with their statements, only providing the latest news from the Italian media.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post

    Most mean well and it is constructive balanced criticism, but there is the minority that is the loudest. It comes only when Ferrari is doing badly, then when Ferrari improves, it goes.

    So Felipe and Ferrari just have to concentrate and get there, once it does, everything will be okay.
    I need a few things clarified about this forum.

    Are we allowed to say anything negative about ferrari? For example "wheel gun guy 3 is horrible, he's had 4 seasons and is still slow and needs to be replaced" or because we are ferrari fans, we're not allowed express any negative sentiment. If that is the case, you need to view this forum as a sort of mosque or synagogue, etc where people refuse to see any fault in their team and shun those who question it. By supporting ferrari, surely we should be allowed to voice constructive criticism/our own ideas about the way forward (which may be different from yours or is free speech banned too). I as an Arsenal fan freely voice that Theo Wallcott is on the whole a liability and that he needs to be replaced with someone of greater quality, does that not make me an Arsenal fan any longer?

    True Fan was spot on on most things.

    Of late Massa does all his racing in the midfield fact or not?
    Domenicalli has had plenty of time in his job to achieve greatness?
    Briatore who has had a stupidly good record in F1 is probably the man to get?

    This recipe has had a long time to stew together. I ask the die hard supporters on here who will have no ill spoken about ferrari personnel, how much longer does this situation have to persist before you want the top heads to roll? Do we persist with Massa if Fernando wins the championship and we don't win the WCC coz mass is a silly number of points behind? oh wait we didn't get second in 2010 coz he was a hundred points behind.

    True fan is correct and we all know this. Its just that the truth hurts.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    Is it me or is there summat intrinsically wrong with the Tifosi having to defend Ferrari to so-called Ferrari supporters on a freakin' Ferrari forum?

    Especially ones who cantbearsed to base their opinions on facts or relevance to the greater good of the team they purport to support?

    meh!
    What has Felipe done in the past two seasons to deserve to keep his seat? I'll wait...

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    Every monday on RAI(Italian publication/tv) Sport 2 (dedicated sport channel of RAI) there's a very interesting program: Numero 1 which explores issues about F1. After an analysis of the race the main theme is: FELIPE MASSA. They say he's a disaster, Ferrari needs a driver who gets poinst in every race... His pace was much slower than Alonso's. @sabbatini has said Massa has lots of problems and Ferrari needs to replace him with another driver not at the end of the season but NOW! Ferrari could replace Massa with a driver BEFORE the test session in Mugello so he could try the car without the pressure of a race weekend. They finished it off with this Italian statement: Tanto peggio di così non può andare -> Can not get worse.

    This is Italian television with Italian commentators who have no vested interest in either driver, only the team. I'm not saying I agree with their statements, only providing the latest news from the Italian media.
    so you don't think the media (Italian or otherwise) should decide what the greatest racing team in history should do but you think it's worth mentioning?

    For what purpose?

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    What has Felipe done in the past two seasons to deserve to keep his seat? I'll wait...
    Why wait? go watch the seasons again...it's a complete lie he has not performed the last two seasons. 2010 he had a very good season, when the car was capable of winning he was on the podium (never mind him moving over in Germany), other than Singapore when the car broke in qualifying and he still got into the points.

    You can say he performed poorly in 2011, if you look at the results on F1.com, if you followed the races you would see a season filled with slow pitstops, poor strategy and lot's of incidents with another driver.

    Italian media wanted Todt sacked after France 96, Italian media wanted MS hung after Jerez 97, Italian media morphed MS face into a pumpkin after a poor race...
    Forza Ferrari

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    so you don't think the media (Italian or otherwise) should decide what the greatest racing team in history should do but you think it's worth mentioning?

    For what purpose?
    Personally, I found it interesting that the Italian media is on a witch hunt of sorts! Italians are not known for being shy and retiring; but, to publicly rail against Ferrari?? That's not something I would have expected, considering the pride most Italians feel towards such an iconic and historical Italian institution!!

    I also appreciate knowing that the frustration is being felt by fans everywhere!!

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    What has Felipe done in the past two seasons to deserve to keep his seat? I'll wait...
    you'll wait for what?

    i'll wait til you read what others have posted and comment on that as regards your ignoring what people have posted and making simplistic statements that don't regard anything except your own personal desire.

    I get criticised on this forum for being anti Alonso, yet the people who post the most selfish and ill considered anti Ferrari comments all seem to live in Spain or have avatars of Fernando. They usually tend to be people who joined the forum less than 18 months ago and the common thread is that they never criticise Fernando and usually take the moral high ground on a forum that has members that were supporting Ferrari and its drivers way before they even heard Fernando suggest to the media that Ferrari were cheats (he drove for Flavio at that point - ironically).

    I think Fernando is brilliant. I also think that that many of his more junior and outspoken fans are selfish and arrogant and spoil this forum these days.

    This is not a criticism of you btw, it's a personal opinion - which i'm lead to believe is all fine and dandy - regardless of whether its valid and is backed up with facts or not.


    Many Fernando fans on TSN are brilliant too. The most outspoken ones are usually not brilliant however. In fact, they usually do him a disservice.


    Personally, I couldn't give a damn what these people think because they only have one goal and its clearly not the same as Ferrari's.

    What i DO know is that they are swamping this forum with ill-considered and irrelevant bilge which is self serving and certainly not what their idol has in mind as part of the Scuderia.

    Dull witch hunts i feel i have the b**s to comment on - regardless of what people want to throw back at me. This has nothing to do with Massa's place in Ferrari in 2012 and most of these clowns know it.

    Freedom to speak is a wonderful thing.

    Forza Ferrari

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  14. #284
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    Quick question, and be honest: can we expect a massive turnaround if Ferrari replaces Felipe with ______ come Malaysia?

  15. #285
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    __________ will need 2-3 races and the final test and wil possibly perform from the European leg.

    LDM has said he will honour Massa's contract...but these things mean less at Ferrari..

  16. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by meh123 View Post
    __________ will need 2-3 races and the final test and wil possibly perform from the European leg.

    LDM has said he will honour Massa's contract...but these things mean less at Ferrari..
    these things mean less in "meh Ferrariland" methinks. Why don't you name the driver btw or will anyone do?

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  17. #287
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    Being in the hypothetical situation, ________ will take a while to adapt to a Ferrari. I said contracts were not of much importance as we fired a WDC in 2009.

    ________ can be anyone from past drivers...Sutil, Perez, Jamie Algusauri ($santander will readily pay out Massa for him), maybe Kubica if hez fit enough...

  18. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by ek583 View Post
    +1 to this.

    Like a broken record, instead of constantly regurgitating the same pile of garbage, can people just look up stats like that (for those who have short/selective memory) please!

    Come back and tell me when the F2012 has secured its first pole position. Until then people, just stop complaining about Massa!
    Sorry to disagree with you and others that are stating that Massa has performed well in the last two seasons but here are the stats:

    2010: Alonso 252 points vs Massa 144 points... ratio = 1.75

    2011: Alonso 257 points vs Massa 118 points... ratio = 2.18

    These are facts. To back up the rational argument that Felipe is not performing to the required standard.

    I will reiterate that Massa should not be got rid of now but we may look back and say he prob shouldn’t have had a seat this year. (my opinion)

    I would also like to say that i am not trying to irritate other members of the forum and that the level of support you show for Massa is admirable. I and some others are maybe a bit more realistic about the situation.

  19. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by F2008 View Post
    Bahrain 2010: 1. Alonso 2. Massa
    Hockenheim 2010: 1. Alonso 2. Massa
    Monza 2010: 1. Alonso 3. Massa
    Korea 2010: 1. Alonso 3. Massa

    I think Massa proved your point. Unfortunately his car broke down in Singapore Q1. In fact Alonso was only capable of winning when the car was good enough to get Massa on the podium. A good car is what we need right now.

    bold text: Why not the other way round?? why not push the team harder and extract more from the car. Why not adapt quickly to the tires by changing driving style instead of complaining about tires??

    Why not perform like he did in 2008 ?? I have waited for Massa to perform and win races again since it will boost his confidence levels. that has not happened since 2010...and it may be the right time for a replacement..

  20. #290
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    Just a thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    What has Felipe done in the past two seasons to deserve to keep his seat? I'll wait...
    If Felipe should go, the same should apply to most of the engineering group. They have not performed any better than Massa. I could say the same for Ferrari's management of the team. True metal will be shown if the team, the entire team can find a way to battle back from this start and provide a finish to the season that they can hold their head high to.

  21. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertie View Post
    I and some others are maybe a bit more realistic about the situation.
    No your not. It's just you're not saying anything we don't already know and haven't heard already 1000 times.


    Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.

  22. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDARMYSOJA View Post
    No your not. It's just you're not saying anything we don't already know and haven't heard already 1000 times.
    i'm sorry do you know me?

    it is an opinion, part of a two-sided discusssion on the merits of one of our drivers. you may have heard it 1000 times but the person i responded to clearly didn't.

  23. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertie View Post
    i'm sorry do you know me?

    it is an opinion, part of a two-sided discusssion on the merits of one of our drivers. you may have heard it 1000 times but the person i responded to clearly didn't.
    No, I don't know you. But I do know you said this.

    wow. you really can't say that massa is underperforming on this site before the mods rain down on you like a tonne of bricks.

    I think everyone should be able to express their views on all aspects of the team.

    Clearly, massa is not performing to the standard which ferrari expects/needs and i assume he is not happy with his performance in the last two years and especially oz. I hope he finds his form once more.
    I just didn't want you to think I was raining down on you like a tonne of bricks but merely explaining why you get the reaction you do when complaining about Massa. And I can assure you ek583 has heard it all 1000 times as well.

    Even the most ardent Massa supporters (of which I am one) will admit things are not looking good for him. But saying so over and over again is reaching the point of beating a dead horse, which is pointless.

    Plus, when you discuss things in an open forum, other have a right to make their point about the subject too.


    Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.

  24. #294
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    I am always critical about Massa, but right now, I don't see why Massa needs to go. He is not as good as Alonso, but that's why there's the difference in salary.

    Until Alonso wins consistently while Massa trails by a large margin, there's no need to replace him. The problem is the car and it needs to be fixed.

  25. #295
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    So with all the Massa bashing going on. Who would you all have replace him? I don't see any of the current unemployed F1 drivers doing any better. Massa knows the inner workings of Ferrari and is doing a journeyman's jobs
    with the tools he has been given. He is not the same caliber as Alonso so we can't expect the same results. If they replace him "in Season" I would love to see Trulli get the seat for the rest of the year and then Perez next year. Other wise let lay off "Felipe baby" for a bit till the car comes around. This guy has won 11 races and damn near had a WC to his credit, along with being seriously injured driving an F1 car. More than most guys can claim. Give the guy some respect.
    Cheers all:

  26. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucial_Xtreme View Post
    Every monday on RAI(Italian publication/tv) Sport 2 (dedicated sport channel of RAI) there's a very interesting program: Numero 1 which explores issues about F1. After an analysis of the race the main theme is: FELIPE MASSA. They say he's a disaster, Ferrari needs a driver who gets poinst in every race... His pace was much slower than Alonso's. @sabbatini has said Massa has lots of problems and Ferrari needs to replace him with another driver not at the end of the season but NOW! Ferrari could replace Massa with a driver BEFORE the test session in Mugello so he could try the car without the pressure of a race weekend. They finished it off with this Italian statement: Tanto peggio di così non può andare -> Can not get worse.

    This is Italian television with Italian commentators who have no vested interest in either driver, only the team. I'm not saying I agree with their statements, only providing the latest news from the Italian media.
    As a follower of Italian news, I have to admit that Italian journalists are very emotionally critical. They're to blame for most of the BS in Italian football, as the turn every tiny thing into a dramatic reality show.

    I'll never forget how most of the Italian journalists wanted to kill off Alesi and Berger, already when Schumacher arrival was announced midway through the season.

    With that said, they are very spot on with technical details and updates. Especially when it comes to adding up the numbers of a driver's performance.
    And unlike certain British commentators, they're not baised even when it comes to Ferrari.
    Unlike the fanatic Ferrari fans around the world, I've yet to come across an Italian journalist in F1 that doesn't think the F2012 is horrendously ugly and a bad design.
    From day one most of them already questioned it, and feared McLaren had outsmarted Ferrari... again.

    Also I'm going to add my view here. It's the Massa story is a Paradox. If the car performs would he do better? We can't tell cause it's a donkey so far. But, with all his expereince, and with what he's paid, should he be doing better?

    Regardless, we're all opnionated fans, and reality is that if Ferrari is keeping Massa, is cause they know things that we internet fans cannot see from our screens.

    Let's not forget that the whole of Italy wanted Irvine replaced midway in 96 as a similar Alonso vs Massa issue hit him, and the very same journalists cried scandal when he wasn't dropped for the 97 season. And then what happened? Italy loved him.
    Last edited by Omegablue; 20th March 2012 at 03:26.

  27. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by underdog13 View Post
    So with all the Massa bashing going on. Who would you all have replace him? I don't see any of the current unemployed F1 drivers doing any better. Massa knows the inner workings of Ferrari and is doing a journeyman's jobs
    with the tools he has been given.
    Cheers all:
    I fully agree there. Unless Alonso starts winning races while Massa still lingers in midfield, then they should at least keep him for the season.
    And if it wasn't for that forced tyre change and the collision, Massa would have arrived 8th last Sunday, and half of the posts here wouldn't exist.

  28. #298
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    Massa is the least of their worries. The key is that in a bad car the difference in driver skill is magnified, whereas in a good car the margins between the same drivers is less.

    You need continuity in the drivers so as to focus on the car instead especially seeing as we already have Alonso. Who is in the other car is not of primary importance right now. Get the car fixed then we will have a pick of drivers, as of today i dont think a driver in say Mac, Merc, RB, Lotus, Sauber or Williams would want to move into the Ferrari garage.

    Priorities please.

  29. #299
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    To anyone who thinks Massa should be kicked out before the season end, give Jules Bianchi (or any other available driver) a race in F2012, and if he's NO better than Massa, stick your head into the toilet bowl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferris View Post
    Massa is the least of their worries. The key is that in a bad car the difference in driver skill is magnified, whereas in a good car the margins between the same drivers is less.

    You need continuity in the drivers so as to focus on the car instead especially seeing as we already have Alonso. Who is in the other car is not of primary importance right now. Get the car fixed then we will have a pick of drivers, as of today i dont think a driver in say Mac, Merc, RB, Lotus, Sauber or Williams would want to move into the Ferrari garage.

    Priorities please.
    I disagree with you there. If great drivers only come to Ferrari when the team is at its best, then Schumi and Alonso would have never set foot in a Ferrari. Ferrari wasn't winning any races by the time Schumi came to Ferrari. You're delusional if you think Sauber, Williams or Lotus will continue to be a better team. The young drivers know that

    As for Massa's future, its not about Ferrari wanting to ask the question 'should we keep him or not'. But rather, the question is coming to us. Its an inevitable question, because Massa's contract ends this year. You can't drive without a contract.

    I agree that the car's performance is the main focus of the team now, but at the same time, Ferrari have to make a decision on Massa this year as his contract ends, so the team can't simply turn a blind eye on the issue. They have to think about it like it or not, for the simple reason that the contract ends this year.

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