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Thread: The Reality Of The Situation

  1. #61
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    how many pole positions have Ferrari had since 2009? you can't win championships if you never get poles.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    You confuse people with a vested interest in one driver primarily and who follow our team as a consequence - who hang around here for one reason only

    The ones that do that and follow Massa don't tend to blame Ferrari for his limitations.

    Also, if sacking Massa meant that Ferrari would win the WDC or WCC this year then ALL Ferrari fans would want it. It's not the situation and it's just the people who like a scapegoat that use his performance as an excuse to say such pointless things. If Ferrari wanted to do it THEY WOULD DO IT - not wait for armchair pundits to suggest it!
    .
    So your approach is to keep drivers and personnel who are clearly not good enough and hope that somehow, someway it all clicks together and we get lucky.

    Newsflash: Didnt work last year, probably wont work this year.

    Massa is clearly not good enough, therefore he needs to get out and get out fast.

    Why do fanboys like you act as if Ferrari cant make mistakes? Like whatever they do is the right thing and they doing it for a reason.

    Ummmm, get real, they have been messing up and making the incorrect calls ever since the HR Manager came in and took over. Massa is useless, sorry, but its true, even if he won tomorrow, ill stand by that, the other top teams wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    No, it hasnt been great start. But the race is tomorrow, it long season, it isnt over yet. The team has said, it complex car. Once new updates arrive and they can fully unlock the speed of it, we will be fine. Season has just started, well, not yet and people on here calling for heads to roll and we go have bad year. The team needs to be stable and gell as 1 to get us winning. With Pat Fry at the helm we heading in right direction. This isnt as bad as the 80s and 90s. Support the team, dont knock them and shout for their heads.
    ROB!
    I was waiting for your opinion today, good to have some great sense
    Once again completely agree, as does Stefano shown in his interview.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    ROB!
    I was waiting for your opinion today, good to have some great sense
    Once again completely agree, as does Stefano shown in his interview.
    cheers

    watching Sebring, and saw all this and had to say something.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by NanoTheQuickest View Post
    Just trying to put things out of context here nothing more!
    Maybe we need Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or Martin O'Neill. They certainly have management skills and know how to gel people together.


    Forza Jules

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    I give up. You don't read. You just moan and assume. Loyalty has nothing to do with this subject, which is knee-jerk reactions to adversity.

    Weak minded individuals assume and blame which is the easy route, and do not have the strength of character to reason beyond their own personal feelings and formed opinions and prejudices. Being ruled by your emotions and not by your head and stamping your feet at the first sign of trouble in a new season may make the weak minded feel better in the short term but it has nothing to do with the reality of the situation. That's all supposition on your part.

    We all know there is a problem. I can say definitively that if Ferrari don't know what it is then you certainly dont.

    Enjoy
    You shouldn't assume that others don't understand the sport on a technical level just because you don't. Many of us fans are engineers, aerodynamicists, etc... and not all of the Ferrari criticism is unjustified.

    The bottom line is that the reason Domenicali is still within the team is all about politics. Because that's how it all works. If you have worked in a similar environment, of similar size and power, you will know that to be true.

    I'm not claiming to know the reasons for the lack of performance, as without any technical data it is not possible to tell. But it is quite obvious that there is something fundamentally wrong with the design of the car, and it has to do with the way the team is being run. It's that simple. Getting rid of Dyer and Costa was a mistake. Looking at the team from a technical point of view, it's as if they were innovating for the sake of keeping critics quiet, and not for actual performance gains. Pull-rod front suspension? Was the motivation really to build a fast car, or to be as extreme as possible to go against recent media accusations of being too conservative?

    Right now to me it seems like the team is revolving around what others think of them, rather than revolving around a core winning formula coming from within. The technical team cannot be blamed for this, as it is almost certainly the decision making of the leaders that is forcing them to work in a certain (very creativity crippling) way. This team is starting to look like the Ferrari of old...

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Fan View Post
    So your approach is to keep drivers and personnel who are clearly not good enough and hope that somehow, someway it all clicks together and we get lucky.

    Newsflash: Didnt work last year, probably wont work this year.

    Massa is clearly not good enough, therefore he needs to get out and get out fast.

    Why do fanboys like you act as if Ferrari cant make mistakes? Like whatever they do is the right thing and they doing it for a reason.

    Ummmm, get real, they have been messing up and making the incorrect calls ever since the HR Manager came in and took over. Massa is useless, sorry, but its true, even if he won tomorrow, ill stand by that, the other top teams wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.
    No. But your approach - which is to get rid of people that you think are responsible when you have no realistic idea if they are or not - is laughable.

    You have decided what is real but you really have no idea if Domenicali is responsible or not do you? You have no proof - only your prejudice against him because of his background.

    In essence you think YOU KNOW BEST. Well i'm here to tell you that you don't because none of us do.

    You also do not understand the term "fanboy".

    Sitting in your bedroom believing that you know how to run an F1 team makes you deluded. I am not deluded. If that makes me a fanboy in your eyes then its fine by me.

    What you are doing is venting your frustration by deciding that you know better than Ferrari.

    Long time reader you may be but it kind of makes sense now why you never posted before. Sorry to get personal dude but your assumptions about me personally make it hard not to assume that you are merely being a keyboard warrior and are not interested in the debate but just that you know best and Ferrari have no idea at all.

    It really is laughable.

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sha1 View Post
    You shouldn't assume that others don't understand the sport on a technical level just because you don't. Many of us fans are engineers, aerodynamicists, etc... and not all of the Ferrari criticism is unjustified.

    The bottom line is that the reason Domenicali is still within the team is all about politics. Because that's how it all works. If you have worked in a similar environment, of similar size and power, you will know that to be true.

    I'm not claiming to know the reasons for the lack of performance, as without any technical data it is not possible to tell. But it is quite obvious that there is something fundamentally wrong with the design of the car, and it has to do with the way the team is being run. It's that simple. Getting rid of Dyer and Costa was a mistake. Looking at the team from a technical point of view, it's as if they were innovating for the sake of keeping critics quiet, and not for actual performance gains. Pull-rod front suspension? Was the motivation really to build a fast car, or to be as extreme as possible to go against recent media accusations of being too conservative?

    Right now to me it seems like the team is revolving around what others think of them, rather than revolving around a core winning formula coming from within. The technical team cannot be blamed for this, as it is almost certainly the decision making of the leaders that is forcing them to work a certain (very creativity crippling) way. This team is starting to look like the Ferrari of old...
    You shouldn't assume you know how to run an F1 team that you are not part of - just because you are involved in a profession associated with its activities.

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    cheers

    watching Sebring, and saw all this and had to say something.
    Yeah, good that you did.
    I hope you are enjoying seeing Ferrari win in some kind of Motorsport event


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    No. But your approach - which is to get rid of people that you think are responsible when you have no realistic idea if they are or not - is laughable.

    You have decided what is real but you really have no idea if Domenicali is responsible or not do you? You have no proof - only your prejudice against him because of his background.

    In essence you think YOU KNOW BEST. Well i'm here to tell you that you don't because none of us do.

    You also do not understand the term "fanboy".

    Sitting in your bedroom believing that you know how to run an F1 team makes you deluded. I am not deluded. If that makes me a fanboy in your eyes then its fine by me.

    What you are doing is venting your frustration by deciding that you know better than Ferrari.

    Long time reader you may be but it kind of makes sense now why you never posted before. Sorry to get personal dude but your assumptions about me personally make it hard not to assume that you are merely being a keyboard warrior and are not interested in the debate but just that you know best and Ferrari have no idea at all.

    It really is laughable.
    Do you know how to read numbers?

    12. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari-Ferrari 1m 26.494s


    16. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari-Ferrari 1m 27.497s

    Massa 1 second slower than Alonso, even after getting extra runs at getting into Q3 whilst Alonso's car was being towed away.

    And you think i need to be a Ferrari employee or work inside to the team to know that this is a clear cut indication (amougst the other evidence) that Massa is not good enough and shouldnt be driving for the best team in F.1?

    You cannot be serious.

    Team Principal = Buck - Stops -With - You

    If you are the leader of a team and the team consistently doesn't perform to its potential, you are in the firing line. Thats not keyboard/internet forum talk, thats call real life my friend, and right now, I dont think you are living in it.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    Maybe we need Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or Martin O'Neill. They certainly have management skills and know how to gel people together.
    I thought about giving my previous post a few international rugby references regarding the way things are handled when manager don't bring in the results expected with teams more than capable of doing so but I did not want to go that way.

    "I cannot judge what he did in his time at Renault and McLaren but I have worked with World Champions Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen and Fernando is the one who impresses me the most," said Gene.

  12. #72
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    Anyone tell me what this says?

    Thanyou kindly

    http://www.ferrari.com/Italian/Formu...-in-vista.aspx

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosso blitz View Post
    Anyone tell me what this says?

    Thanyou kindly

    http://www.ferrari.com/Italian/Formu...-in-vista.aspx
    Difficult sunday in sight.... we're going to struggle....

    "I cannot judge what he did in his time at Renault and McLaren but I have worked with World Champions Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen and Fernando is the one who impresses me the most," said Gene.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Fan View Post
    Do you know how to read numbers?

    12. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari-Ferrari 1m 26.494s


    16. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari-Ferrari 1m 27.497s

    Massa 1 second slower than Alonso, even after getting extra runs at getting into Q3 whilst Alonso's car was being towed away.

    And you think i need to be a Ferrari employee or work inside to the team to know that this is a clear cut indication (amougst the other evidence) that Massa is not good enough and shouldnt be driving for the best team in F.1?

    You cannot be serious.

    Team Principal = Buck - Stops -With - You

    If you are the leader of a team and the team consistently doesn't perform to its potential, you are in the firing line. Thats not keyboard/internet forum talk, thats call real life my friend, and right now, I dont think you are living in it.

    He just needs to be as good as Rubens was with Michael, as you guys all seem to think that Alonso talent=Schumi talent, no?

    Rubens=11 wins

    Massa=11 wins


    -Lou(is)
    Forza
    Ferrari 16/15

    Totus Tuus


  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by NanoTheQuickest View Post
    Difficult sunday in sight.... we're going to struggle....
    ok thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by True Fan View Post
    Do you know how to read numbers?

    12. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari-Ferrari 1m 26.494s


    16. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari-Ferrari 1m 27.497s

    Massa 1 second slower than Alonso, even after getting extra runs at getting into Q3 whilst Alonso's car was being towed away.

    And you think i need to be a Ferrari employee or work inside to the team to know that this is a clear cut indication (amougst the other evidence) that Massa is not good enough and shouldnt be driving for the best team in F.1?

    You cannot be serious.

    Team Principal = Buck - Stops -With - You

    If you are the leader of a team and the team consistently doesn't perform to its potential, you are in the firing line. Thats not keyboard/internet forum talk, thats call real life my friend, and right now, I dont think you are living in it.
    Patronising too. Nice

    All you do is bang on and on.

    Tell you what, you sack who you like mate. I'll give you permission to. However, if it makes no difference to the performance of our car I will blame you because the buck will stop with you. You will probably say that it was out of your hands by then and to do with the design process that you had no control over for some reason you will clearly fabricate, but that doesn't matter cos I can pin it on you even though it wont make any difference to next year's car. Funny how you don't blame the people who actually designed or built the car but then again that's not really what you want is it? Its Domenicali you are focused on - for reasons that arent even remotely logical.

    If you demand a sacking in the name of knowing more about Ferrari than Ferrari do then who am I to deny you? After all, you live in the real world and know everything and everyone else is a fanboy.

    Long time reader my ****

    I'll leave you to your delusion and let you carry on. After all, you must have some sackings to attend to.

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by NanoTheQuickest View Post
    I thought about giving my previous post a few international rugby references regarding the way things are handled when manager don't bring in the results expected with teams more than capable of doing so but I did not want to go that way.
    Scotland suck

  18. #78
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    Weren't Fredifosis demanding the sacking of Costa and Dyer? Why the turn around?

    I wonder how many wives Domenicali has slept with, you know he was chose by Todt to be his successor even a certain Bernard Ecclestone can see
    the management isn't the problem.

    Different methods are being used, have none of you guys ever worked in large organisation? It takes time to in-bed, last year Ferrari
    under went deep structural changes.

    As for Felipe, true Ferrari fans know what he is capable of, yes, he made a mistake today but so did Fernando.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Diamond View Post
    Weren't Fredifosis demanding the sacking of Costa and Dyer? Why the turn around?

    I wonder how many wives Domenicali has slept with, you know he was chose by Todt to be his successor even a certain Bernard Ecclestone can see
    the management isn't the problem.

    Different methods are being used, have none of you guys ever worked in large organisation? It takes time to in-bed, last year Ferrari
    under went deep structural changes.

    As for Felipe, true Ferrari fans know what he is capable of, yes, he made a mistake today but so did Fernando.


    Forza Ferrari
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Fan View Post
    Do you know how to read numbers?

    12. Fernando Alonso Spain Ferrari-Ferrari 1m 26.494s


    16. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari-Ferrari 1m 27.497s

    Massa 1 second slower than Alonso, even after getting extra runs at getting into Q3 whilst Alonso's car was being towed away.

    And you think i need to be a Ferrari employee or work inside to the team to know that this is a clear cut indication (amougst the other evidence) that Massa is not good enough and shouldnt be driving for the best team in F.1?

    You cannot be serious.

    Team Principal = Buck - Stops -With - You

    If you are the leader of a team and the team consistently doesn't perform to its potential, you are in the firing line. Thats not keyboard/internet forum talk, thats call real life my friend, and right now, I dont think you are living in it.
    Okay, you don't like Massa and Domenicali - I think that has been made abundantly clear to all of us.

    May I ask who in the team you think is doing a good job (Fernando aside)?
    Forza Jules

  21. #81
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    lol, pitchforks and torches already ?
    hardly a great start to the year, but this....
    Life might be hard, Concrete is a lot harder

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    Patronising too. Nice

    All you do is bang on and on.

    Tell you what, you sack who you like mate. I'll give you permission to. However, if it makes no difference to the performance of our car I will blame you because the buck will stop with you. You will probably say that it was out of your hands by then and to do with the design process that you had no control over for some reason you will clearly fabricate, but that doesn't matter cos I can pin it on you even though it wont make any difference to next year's car. Funny how you don't blame the people who actually designed or built the car but then again that's not really what you want is it? Its Domenicali you are focused on - for reasons that arent even remotely logical.
    Ermm, what you havent quite grasped yet, it that Ferrari have done the very thing you are criticizing. Ever heard of Costa, Illey, Dyer? Sacked/demoted for bad decisions....the very thing you are calling unreasonable and yet two mins ago you were saying ferrari know what they are doing. LOL. I dont think you know what you are talking about here.

    There is no logical reason for felipe massa to be driving that car, he is a poor driver and he doesnt perform, end of story.

    Dominicali is a HR guy who must have got the spot via some kind of internal politics, as another poster has already tried to explain to you, because his team are not performing and his job is to get the team to perform. After 3 seasons of excuses and smokescreen and media talk from this guy I would think you could see through his posturing and realize that he is not a ruthless, commanding, uncompromising leader which is the kind of attitude which is needed to succeed in F1. F1 is about deceiving other teams, spying on them, stealing their ideas, cheating, bending the rules, and much more, not being a very nice bloke and friend to the media, this isnt a World PR championship, this is racing.

    His team do not perform, he is the leader of the team, he has overseen other people lose their jobs whilst he keeps his and makes more false promises of better performance......which dont come to fruition, now he needs to go back to HR, because he's not cut out to be a leader of an F1 team like Ferrari.

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    No. But your approach - which is to get rid of people that you think are responsible when you have no realistic idea if they are or not - is laughable.

    You have decided what is real but you really have no idea if Domenicali is responsible or not do you? You have no proof - only your prejudice against him because of his background.

    In essence you think YOU KNOW BEST. Well i'm here to tell you that you don't because none of us do.

    You also do not understand the term "fanboy".

    Sitting in your bedroom believing that you know how to run an F1 team makes you deluded. I am not deluded. If that makes me a fanboy in your eyes then its fine by me.

    What you are doing is venting your frustration by deciding that you know better than Ferrari.

    Long time reader you may be but it kind of makes sense now why you never posted before. Sorry to get personal dude but your assumptions about me personally make it hard not to assume that you are merely being a keyboard warrior and are not interested in the debate but just that you know best and Ferrari have no idea at all.

    It really is laughable.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    You shouldn't assume you know how to run an F1 team that you are not part of - just because you are involved in a profession associated with its activities.
    And +1...
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

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    Quote Originally Posted by True Fan View Post
    Ermm, what you havent quite grasped yet, it that Ferrari have done the very thing you are criticizing. Ever heard of Costa, Illey, Dyer? Sacked/demoted for bad decisions....the very thing you are calling unreasonable and yet two mins ago you were saying ferrari know what they are doing. LOL. I dont think you know what you are talking about here.

    There is no logical reason for felipe massa to be driving that car, he is a poor driver and he doesnt perform, end of story.

    Dominicali is a HR guy who must have got the spot via some kind of internal politics, as another poster has already tried to explain to you, because his team are not performing and his job is to get the team to perform. After 3 seasons of excuses and smokescreen and media talk from this guy I would think you could see through his posturing and realize that he is not a ruthless, commanding, uncompromising leader which is the kind of attitude which is needed to succeed in F1. F1 is about deceiving other teams, spying on them, stealing their ideas, cheating, bending the rules, and much more, not being a very nice bloke and friend to the media, this isnt a World PR championship, this is racing.

    His team do not perform, he is the leader of the team, he has overseen other people lose their jobs whilst he keeps his and makes more false promises of better performance......which dont come to fruition, now he needs to go back to HR, because he's not cut out to be a leader of an F1 team like Ferrari.
    You wont listen. You just twist stuff. I didn't say any such thing so i'm not even going to entertain your deviations from the point any more.

    Also, you just repeat crap about Massa and Domenicali, proving you are incapable of listening or reacting to outside stimuli.

    We don't care who you blame or to hear you bang on about HR or Massa. It has nothing to do with the simple fact that you do not know the situation better than Ferrari so please just dont bother replying any more because you have nothing else to add except your well trodden opinion that you are the father of all creation and know Ferrari better than they know themselves.

    If you wish to be last word freak then knock yourself out but I really cant be bothered to reply anymore because you are static and repetitive and i've got funnier things to read

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Fan View Post
    There is no logical reason for felipe massa to be driving that car, he is a poor driver and he doesnt perform, end of story.
    Ferrari is all about Alonso, the 2nd car and 2nd driver is not what they care about, most fans realise this.

    If you promised us replacing Domenicali with Joe Bloggs tomorrow would make us win, then I imagine 99% of fans would say, great let's do it. Sadly it does not work like that and Ferrari are making lots of changes inside the team and as such need time to get some stability, I bet you were also wanting Jean Todt out in 96 when engines were blowing up on formation laps, Ferrari have a longer term plan than tomorrow.
    Forza Ferrari

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    This is so hard to read. From all of you. One is bashing everyone working in Ferrari and others are acting like nothing is wrong and are skipping all the bad things which has happened in last 3 years. It's from one extreme to an another. It has become a really uncomfortable place here so I beg you guys, try to not being biased on any side too much.

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifosi View Post
    You wont listen. You just twist stuff. I didn't say any such thing so i'm not even going to entertain your deviations from the point any more.

    Also, you just repeat crap about Massa and Domenicali, proving you are incapable of listening or reacting to outside stimuli.

    We don't care who you blame or to hear you bang on about HR or Massa. It has nothing to do with the simple fact that you do not know the situation better than Ferrari so please just dont bother replying any more because you have nothing else to add except you well trodden opinion that you are the father of all creation and know Ferrari better than they know themselves.

    If you wish to be last work freak then knock yourself out but I really cant be bothered to reply anymore because you are static and repetitive and i've got funnier things to read
    Yup you have no idea what you are talking about. Just another apologist rambling on about nonsense like ''you dont know ferrari better than they know themselves''

    LOL, like I have said before, there is something i do know about, its called Numbers and results. And when Massa is 1 second behind alonso in a situation like today, then you dont need to be a genius to work out he isnt good enough. Infact you speak of ferrari knowing best, and yet no other top team would sign massa if their lives depended on it.......so that should give you yet another indication he is not good enough.

    It always amazes me the lengths of self delusion these uber fanboys will go to try and blur even the clearest of fact in front of their eyes.

    Stand by for another season of

    ''All we have to do is claw back a second''

    ''We have a massive upgrade planned for the next race''

    ''Its too early to judge yet, we are only 19 races into the season, there is still time''

    When does reality set in for you? Do we have to wait for Ferrari to be overtaken by Caterham before you work out that personnel that clearly arent performing need to get out, or do we just sit in the midfield battle like we are now?

    Honestly. Lol.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    This is so hard to read. From all of you. One is bashing everyone working in Ferrari and others are acting like nothing is wrong and are skipping all the bad things
    I don't think anyone is pretending like nothing is wrong. I think some people are just better at expressing their disappointment in a more rational manner, rather than posting rant after rant about firing people and throwing toys out of their proverbial pram.
    Forza Jules

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    This is so hard to read. From all of you. One is bashing everyone working in Ferrari and others are acting like nothing is wrong and are skipping all the bad things which has happened in last 3 years. It's from one extreme to an another. It has become a really uncomfortable place here so I beg you guys, try to not being biased on any side too much.
    Sorry but there is only one side being biased, the hysterical bashers screaming their heads off for sackings, thinking they're experts when they know absolutely nothing about Ferrari's internal goings on. They pick on the public faces of the team and aim their axes. It's getting boring.

    Everyone else is realistic and I don't see anyone being happy at the results.

  30. #90
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Diamond View Post
    Sorry but there is only one side being biased, the hysterical bashers screaming their heads off for sackings, thinking they're experts when they know absolutely nothing about Ferrari's internal goings on. They pick on the public faces of the team and aim their axes. It's getting boring.

    Everyone else is realistic and I don't see anyone being happy at the results.
    just because some are not demanding Stefano and Felipes balls on a plate does not mean we are deluded into thinking that everything is rosy. Sure there is work to be done, but if you sack everyone, who will want to join? And then who will be doing the work when everyone in maranello has been sacked?


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

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