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Thread: The Reality Of The Situation

  1. #121
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    To be honest though. Massa is not the biggest problem. The F2012 has gone some pretty significant birth defects which need to be addressed.

  2. #122
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    We the fans of Ferrari can only support our team and drivers through thick & thin the good times and the not so good times.
    A true fan imo does precisely that OR ships out to another team & drivers. (I have a few friends who do that fair weather fans I call them---have to always be seen to support the winning team)
    We will get it right and when that day comes it will be so very sweet.


    Forza Jules

  3. #123
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    Tbh I don't think being a 'real fan' precludes criticism of the team. I'd venture to guess that LDM is critical when he's not satisfied with the results, that doesn't mean he's not a Ferrari fan.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by racingbradley View Post
    We the fans of Ferrari can only support our team and drivers through thick & thin the good times and the not so good times.
    A true fan imo does precisely that OR ships out to another team & drivers. (I have a few friends who do that fair weather fans I call them---have to always be seen to support the winning team)
    We will get it right and when that day comes it will be so very sweet.
    Support /= eat everything that is served to us. We are people and we can be unsatisfied. We can have our opinions.

    I agree with the last part tho. Just don't believe it will be this year

    "If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    Tbh I don't think being a 'real fan' precludes criticism of the team. I'd venture to guess that LDM is critical when he's not satisfied with the results, that doesn't mean he's not a Ferrari fan.
    +1 on that.

  6. #126
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    I am sorry to say that some parts of his article are correct (would have made his point better without all \\\\\ stuff )

    However he is is correct, in that our team particularly the design end do not look for the "advantages" that can be gained within the rules as we can see clearly that other teams seek and can find.

    Criticism of Massa I think is harsh particularly based on the 1st event event of the year in a car that already is showing that there is some serious design flaws. Even Fernando is having a hard time controlling the beast. Only the future will show if the designers have been radical and can sort the problems out.

    As for his comments about the Dom I can share some of it. While he is the "TP", the team over all seems to have lost its way in how to design and develop a car.

    Ferrari was developed by Enzo to make racing cars that win and shown that with good leadership and a team that can think laterally in all aspects of the job.

    Ferrari still has the kudos, the history plus and the results over the years. And still is the team that most drivers want to race for.

    I pray that all this is not lost over the next few years untill we find another Brawn/Shumacher combination.

    I hope the team finds the answers it needs very quickly to give us all that feel good factor again :)

    Its all in the name - FERRARI

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyss4k View Post
    This is so hard to read. From all of you. One is bashing everyone working in Ferrari and others are acting like nothing is wrong and are skipping all the bad things which has happened in last 3 years. It's from one extreme to an another. It has become a really uncomfortable place here so I beg you guys, try to not being biased on any side too much.
    No one said "nothing is wrong" in this thread.

    Mr. "True Fan" doesn't do "reading" though heheh

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  8. #128
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    In times like these i like to think back to 2010 even though that year ended like it did and i know the regulations were different but right now i really miss the F10, the way it looked, all red without stupid bar code or any logo on the engine cover but the main reason i miss it is because it was a rolling proof that you can turn around a bad first half season to a good one. I hope we can experience a similar this season.
    Forza Ferrari!

  9. #129
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    Felipe was the moral winner of the 2008 WDC so I don't buy into any "he should be booted out" talk.
    Same goes for Domenicali as under his leadership Ferrari managed to secure both titles in 2007 & came very close in 2008 & 2010.
    I do however believe than there is serious problem in F1 with how the rules on aerodynamics are being interpreted & Ferrari not exploiting the loopholes to keep up.
    So the name of the game is to cheat & get away with it.
    Maybe Ferrari have had enough

  10. #130
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    not sure why we can't accept other people's opinions without taking it personally or over-reacting to it. I for one agree with TrueFan

    Uma vez FERRARI, sempre FERRARI

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by kheopsb View Post
    not sure why we can't accept other people's opinions without taking it personally or over-reacting to it. I for one agree with TrueFan
    +1
    People getting banned for posting their opinions on a forum....go figure.
    Anyone defending Massa for his abysmal performance is totally out of touch with reality and most probably self deluded. Yes we support our drivers but it's now come to a point where we are defending the indefensible. Ferrari is a top team and so as such should aspire to have top class drivers, Massa unfortunately is not, and hasn't been for quite some time. With Massa in the team Ferrari has no hope of ever gaining the WCC, and that for me is all that matters, i couldn't care less about the WDC.
    Massa must go, period.
    "The client is not always right." - Enzo Ferrari

  12. #132
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    true fan is right 100%. *****
    i waited 3 month for this!
    something must be done!


    **No swearing or vulgar language please**

    REDARMYSOJA
    Last edited by REDARMYSOJA; 18th March 2012 at 00:36.

  13. #133
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    Mad http://www.thescuderia.net/forums/images/icons/icon8.pnghttp://www.thescuderia.net/fo

    we made ugliest,and slowest car ever.Have the worst driver on a grid.Somebody said,dont judge Massa for bad result with only one event.When Massa last time gave us a smile?He must go,dont have nerve to watch him any more!Should we wait another year to see him wake up.hope i am wrong

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuderi@SRBIJA View Post
    we made ugliest,and slowest car ever.Have the worst driver on a grid.Somebody said,dont judge Massa for bad result with only one event.When Massa last time gave us a smile?He must go,dont have nerve to watch him any more!Should we wait another year to see him wake up.hope i am wrong
    McLaren - pretty, but fast. Ferrari - ugly, but slow. Maybe Ferrari should make a pretty car, then it will be fast.

    McLaren has 2 strong driver, Button on the same level or even better than Hamilton. Not very good Webber, lose a lot on the start and play catch up during the race. But still dependable. For Mercedes, Schumi only down 13 points from Rosberg last year, but Schumi retired in 5 races vs 2 for Rosberg. Today looks good for podium. I'm tired of Alonso single-handedly pulling the team to the constructors championship when we should have 2 capable drivers. Massa never get past 5th place last year.

    Maybe we should take Kovalainen, he should be a good #2.

  15. #135
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    we are in trouble.

    there is no doubt about that after the performance yesterday.all the attention was focused against redbull / RB8. the only thing now is if we are still behind the rb8 or just par with them or still behind with the bulls. but it only shows that mclaren, mercedes and even lotus is ahead of the ferrari.

    fernando is not even sure if he can sneak into Q3 even without his error. i am not loosing hope. but i am totally disappointed.

    they are the top team to get an early start of the development for this season. ENOUGH TIME, ENOUGH DESIGNERS, ENOUGH ENGINEERS AND RESOURCES. and still catching up. is this a case of overconfidence or just being careless.
    Hell would have broken loose

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheikomatic View Post
    McLaren - pretty, but fast. Ferrari - ugly, but slow. Maybe Ferrari should make a pretty car, then it will be fast.

    McLaren has 2 strong driver, Button on the same level or even better than Hamilton. Not very good Webber, lose a lot on the start and play catch up during the race. But still dependable. For Mercedes, Schumi only down 13 points from Rosberg last year, but Schumi retired in 5 races vs 2 for Rosberg. Today looks good for podium. I'm tired of Alonso single-handedly pulling the team to the constructors championship when we should have 2 capable drivers. Massa never get past 5th place last year.

    Maybe we should take Kovalainen, he should be a good #2.
    It's time to sit down and start talking with Sergio he is good driver

  17. #137
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    does it really take time to revise some parts of the car even with all of the resources??? like what if they test a push rod front suspension configuration which is better., or a sidepod similar to mclarens. but if the fduct is LEGAL ferrari should develop theirs.
    Hell would have broken loose

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan View Post
    +1
    People getting banned for posting their opinions on a forum....go figure.
    Anyone defending Massa for his abysmal performance is totally out of touch with reality and most probably self deluded. Yes we support our drivers but it's now come to a point where we are defending the indefensible. Ferrari is a top team and so as such should aspire to have top class drivers, Massa unfortunately is not, and hasn't been for quite some time. With Massa in the team Ferrari has no hope of ever gaining the WCC, and that for me is all that matters, i couldn't care less about the WDC.
    Massa must go, period.
    Don't jump to conclusions, some members are being banned because they have simply returned from a prior banning under a new name to stir the pot....
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  19. #139
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    +1
    Not sure why our allegiance to the team is up for question because we demand and expect the highest standards in counterpart for our unwavering support. Saying Stefano is a a leader with poor results and Massa a driver with unacceptable performance is a simple fact.
    there shouldn't be anything wrong with holding our team accountable for their results or lack thereof, I'd be more concerned with Tifosi's accepting failure and refusing to demand more from the team we all love so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan View Post
    +1
    People getting banned for posting their opinions on a forum....go figure.
    Anyone defending Massa for his abysmal performance is totally out of touch with reality and most probably self deluded. Yes we support our drivers but it's now come to a point where we are defending the indefensible. Ferrari is a top team and so as such should aspire to have top class drivers, Massa unfortunately is not, and hasn't been for quite some time. With Massa in the team Ferrari has no hope of ever gaining the WCC, and that for me is all that matters, i couldn't care less about the WDC.
    Massa must go, period.

    Uma vez FERRARI, sempre FERRARI

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose-Lorca Fan View Post
    +1
    With Massa in the team Ferrari has no hope of ever gaining the WCC,
    They have already. Twice.


    Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.

  21. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1NAC View Post
    It's time to sit down and start talking with Sergio he is good driver
    Maybe a seat swap? Sergio is under Ferrari Driver Academy groom, so why not.

    There is more to come from the car. The car look more handful in Massa hand, seeing his onboard lap, he just outbrake and missed the apex everywhere and that result in 1 second gap to Alonso which is out of the session earlier. I do not expect that from a Ferrari driver, enough is enough.

    It doesn't make a difference whether it is Sergio or any driver, we have nothing to lose.

  22. #142
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    It's been a bad start to the season, for this is without doubt. This car was born poorly. This fact and this fact alone is the biggest problem the team faces. It indicates problems within the team and highlights the teams deficiencies. Right now there are many problems, and no answers. No person should be fired because of the current situation. Not yet. However, during the summer break a very thorough, honest assessment needs to be made about the status of each facet of the organization and action should be taken accordingly. The team cannot afford to wait until the end of the year to make crucial decisions regarding key players of the team or you risk affecting the 2013 chances.

    I'll admit, it's disheartening we stopped development so early in 2011 only to have the car we have now. It screams incompetence, but it more complicated than just that. It's clear to me and confirmed by the team that the car suffers from a lack of downforce. It is this area(aero) and CFD in which Ferrari is behind it's rivals. It is clear this department of Ferrari is it's achilles heel. The ban of in season testing is to blame, but the utter failure in this area is an indication of a lack of forward thinking of management. And now the team and fans pay the consequences.

    Thing of it is, there is no overnight fix. You can't just go out and buy the latest software & supercomputer and things are magically fixed. It's an area the team has admitted to being behind the competition and has admitted to working on. We must wait and see what happens. Of course there are questions about Domenicali and others, there should be. But no decisions should be rushed, it will help nothing. Same with development of the car. We have to stay calm and let the team work. There will be a time when everyone is held accountable, as they should be. But that time is not now and will only serve to complicate matters and ensure failure of the season. Stefano needs to be evaluated again, as all employees should be. Some will point to Brawn and Mercedes steady climb as a reference to what Domenicali should be, but I'm not sure it's a fair comparison.


    As for the drivers, it's clear Fernando is a top driver so he is safe. Felipe, as we all know hasn't had a great last couple of years, but deserves a chance to prove himself. This is not possible with the current car, so talk of his dismissal is premature and only serves to whet the appetite of rage & disappointment.

    It's hard, damn near impossible to say what the team needs to do because we are not sure of the finer details. All we can do it wait. As the season progresses the picture will become more clear and we will slowly but surely get the answers we are in search of. It is my personal opinion that the addition of Peter Prodromou would benefit the team greatly and surely enhance the teams prospects. But I stress that one person isn't going to make everything better. So I guess it's kind of pointless in speculating about it all now. The season is long and the grid is close, which means the season is salvageable. It only depends on the team and how quickly things get turned around. So before we all play judge & jury, let's have the full trial eh?

  23. #143
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    in fairness with felipe, one F1 veteran (i can't recall the name) states that felipe is fast no questions asked but he is not blessed with luck. feffari can replace him but there i no one faster than him in the driver market. maybe for 2013, a lot of drivers are available in the market especially that kubica will i think will be ready to drive again. what is the situation now is cannot be blamed on felipe alone. if he were able to push the F2012. there is no guarantee that he would have sneaked at Q3 like fernando is telling. it is a fact that the F2012 has design flaws that should be addressed at the earliest possible time. LETS HOPE FOR THE BEST
    Hell would have broken loose

  24. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpiatto View Post
    Felipe was the moral winner of the 2008 WDC so I don't buy into any "he should be booted out" talk.
    Same goes for Domenicali as under his leadership Ferrari managed to secure both titles in 2007 & came very close in 2008 & 2010.
    I do however believe than there is serious problem in F1 with how the rules on aerodynamics are being interpreted & Ferrari not exploiting the loopholes to keep up.
    So the name of the game is to cheat & get away with it.
    Maybe Ferrari have had enough
    Domenicali was not in charge in 2007, Todt was. Ferrari have only won one title under Domenicali, the 2008 WCC. I think people get confused because they seem to remember that Todt left at the end of 2006 like MS, but he was still there in 2007

  25. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    Domenicali was not in charge in 2007, Todt was. Ferrari have only won one title under Domenicali, the 2008 WCC. I think people get confused because they seem to remember that Todt left at the end of 2006 like MS, but he was still there in 2007
    yes but F2008 was evolution from F2007 . Since 2009 we scored under Domenicalli hmmm 7 wins .....

  26. #146
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    Looking at the situation dispassionately, there is little doubt Massa has underperformed since his injury.
    Ditto SD has not really shone. Now it has been argued to death, but if you were a shareholder of a multiple mill organization that failed to perform despite no lack of resource, you would want to start getting individuals to justify their positions.

    It has been mentioned that Ferrari team now lacks some teeth, they all want to be nice. I'm not sure what Ldm has been told, but for a long time we were being told this year the car will be successful out of the box, blah blah, then came then oh @@$$ moment when someone realized it was a dog and the talk of a new chassis started. So what Was going on up to that point? If I was the boss I'd want some answers and some "restructuring" would happen pdq.

    Too bad some here are taking criticism of their preferred team members personally, but personal feelings shouldn't come into it. If F1 is the pinnacle of motor sport, then Ferrari is the pinnacle of F1. These blunders make us a laughing stock. As much as I hate to say it, McLyin' are way ahead of us in this respect and their car works. Maybe we hired their wrong guys. Give Ron a go...maybe?

  27. #147
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    I find it funny how some are calling for Massa to be sacked when it was a only a few years ago we were quite happy with Rubens being nowhere near Michael's pace

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeseman View Post
    I find it funny how some are calling for Massa to be sacked when it was a only a few years ago we were quite happy with Rubens being nowhere near Michael's pace
    Indeed. When and If Ferrari have a car that is capable of winning a WCC and Massa is unable to drive it - then there is a point to be made about Ferrari losing out by keeping him. Until then, calling for his head is as daft as saying Domenicali is to blame because of his position and his background. However, scapegoating makes people feel better about themselves I guess. I love how people think that sticking Perez or whoever in that car will automatically make then on a par with Alonso in it.

    Still, the patriotic "realistic" fans know best

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  29. #149
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    reubens earned points,made a lot of 1-2 finish while at Ferrari.massa is not doing the same.

  30. #150
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    I've been reading the forums for more than 3 years now and it is my first ever post. I've been a tifosi since I was 8 and for the past 16 years, I've seen all the good and the bad and I must say that I feel more passion for the prancing horse during times of crisis (97,86,99,05,09,10,11) compared to the glory years of Schumi. Today, I cheered for Fernando to get that 5th as hard when i was rooting for old Schumi to beat Hakkinen at Suzuka in 2000.

    Nonetheless, I feel there is something lacking in today's Scuderia compared to the past. There is no longer that all conquering confidence you'd expect from the greatest F1 team in history. There is no longer that aura of invincibility that we once enjoyed and took for granted in the early 2000s. Still, I do think that the personnel we have (From SD, Fry, Tombazis etc.) is the best that we can get at the moment and we must make do with the pieces we have. I don not think that we LDM should sack SD or Pat Fry if we do not win the WDC and WCC in 2012. Building a dynasty takes years. Todt, Brawn, Byrne and Schumi needed half a decade to do it and they are a much more gifted bunch than the team we have now. Ferrari have changed to a new team dynamic and design philosophy and as much as we would like it, great results will not come instantly. There is no magic bullet to the problems the team faces now.

    As for the drivers, I cannot say more about Alonso. What he did today proved that the driver is still the best component we can put in a car. Massa, however, sadly needs to go. if not this season then surely the next. He is just as important to the WDC as much as the WCC. His current purpose, as a no. 2, is to take away as much points as he can from the McL and RB boys because both teams have the "disadvantage" of catering to the serious WDC aspirations of both their drivers. However, since the latter part of 2010, Massa has been nowhere near the top 5. He has basically been a sideshow gobbled up by the midfield. Say what you want on how Rubens could not keep up with Schumi but at least he had Michael's back for the most part which Felipe clearly cannot do for Fernando now. Massa is not Ferrari standard and we should let him go.


    Still, I am optimistic for 2012. Ferrari will always be Ferrari. They have smart people in there who can do the job. Just give Fernando a decent car and he'll do the rest. Believe in the team.

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