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Thread: What is happening at Ferrari?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    The Mercedes we beat in Australia you mean?

    With good amount of luck. But there improvement been much bigger then us.

  2. #62
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    Why was it luck?
    Forza Ferrari

  3. #63
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    Wow. Now the whining has actually descended into wanting ALONSO, possibly our biggest asset, gone?

    Unbelievable.
    Forza Jules

  4. #64
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    I KNEW there was something freakishly wrong with all the peace and harmony on here last night, everyone singing praises for Massa, Alonso, the team, etc... now this is more like it. The SACK THEM ALL brigade is back. Order has been restored on TSN.


    The future is RED

  5. #65
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    I think our team of engineers is 2 old school for the new aerodinamic stuff thats going on they are not much into it and thats why we cant make a nice car.
    New times came that we need to take drastic measures off with their heads all of them and bring new engeeners than can make aerodinamic upgrades.
    And yeah sack Domenicali pls and bring Briatore if we can he has a strong hand and will bring order.

  6. #66
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    And what did I just say?

    The future is RED

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ek583 View Post
    I KNEW there was something freakishly wrong with all the peace and harmony on here last night, everyone singing praises for Massa, Alonso, the team, etc... now this is more like it. The SACK THEM ALL brigade is back. Order has been restored on TSN.


    "I cannot judge what he did in his time at Renault and McLaren but I have worked with World Champions Schumacher, Villeneuve and Raikkonen and Fernando is the one who impresses me the most," said Gene.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by vecchiasignora View Post
    Huge difference. Schumacher came to us when we were nobodies.We had no winning mentality.
    Ferrari has at no time been "nobodies" and had won many a championship before Todt, Brawn and Schumi ever came along. True they were in a long dry spell but won races and championships in that time (everyone seems to forget the WCC's won and close championship fights several years in that "dry spell".)


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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ek583 View Post
    I KNEW there was something freakishly wrong with all the peace and harmony on here last night, everyone singing praises for Massa, Alonso, the team, etc... now this is more like it. The SACK THEM ALL brigade is back. Order has been restored on TSN.

    I remember that thread, it was a great one! If I remember correctly, we finally agreed to fire everybody and get an all-female team and a pink car, and to bring back Schumacher in a tutu to drive it

    PS Maybe there were some divergences about the car being pink or purple, but I am quite sure about Schumacher's tutu!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Singer View Post
    I feel rather as you do. Fed up and let down...yet again.

    I just hope that FA sticks to his contract AND Ferrari get's its act together and gives him a fast car.

    We don't want another 20 years of hurt FHS!
    I defo think he will see his contract out, i mean McLaren will not be an option for him with Lewis, unlikely he will want to be with vettel at redbull...... where else is there for him, what other team at the moment can give you a realistic chance of getting the TITLE.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    And for now we must constantly win points.
    Ferrari is in damage limitation at the moment, hopefully in about the 4th or 5th race that victories won't be a pipe dream

  12. #72
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    why are we even discussing Nando leaving ferrari??? Thats not gonna happen, and frankly its just one race down. The car is already better than it was in australia. Stop the whining.
    Silently, like a shadow

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDARMYSOJA View Post
    Ferrari has at no time been "nobodies" and had won many a championship before Todt, Brawn and Schumi ever came along. True they were in a long dry spell but won races and championships in that time (everyone seems to forget the WCC's won and close championship fights several years in that "dry spell".)
    1979 - Scheckter wins Title, followed his teammate and obvioustly Ferrari take constructor's title.
    1980 - Ferrari scores only 7 points.
    1981 - 2 Wins.
    1982 - 3 Wins, and constructor title. Though the WDC could of been Gilles or Pironi's if it wasn't for their tragedies.
    1983 - 3 Wins, and constructor title. The drivers finish 3rd and 4th in the championship, both missing on the title at the last race.
    1984 - 1 Win.
    1985 - 2 Wins. Alboreto comes second in the championship after leading it to the half way point.
    1986 - 0 Wins.
    1987 - 2 Wins.
    1988 - 1 Win.
    1989 - 3 Wins.
    1990 - 6 Wins. Prost finished second, as does Ferrari.
    1991 - 0 Wins.
    1992 - 0 Wins.
    1993 - 0 Wins.
    1994 - 1 Win.
    1995 - 1 Win.
    1996 - Schumacher arrives.

    Aside from 82 - 83 and 1990, Ferrari really didn't fight for the title since their last WDC. And before Schumacher's arrival that was 17 years of really just being a top 5 team at times.

    vecchiasignora is somewhat right that Michael did arrive when Ferrari really lost their winning mentality. And realistically was a massive gamble in his career, so credit to him there.
    Last edited by Omegablue; 23rd March 2012 at 22:18.

  14. #74
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    Those stats just prove that these things go in cycles. No one team can win forever, just like we could not dominate forever after the mid-2000s.
    It will come again. History shows that.
    Forza Jules

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
    Those stats just prove that these things go in cycles. No one team can win forever, just like we could not dominate forever after the mid-2000s.
    It will come again. History shows that.
    Totally agree with you. Look at Williams now. McLaren since there 8 titles from 1988 to 1991, only got 1 WCC and 3 WDC since.

    However during that dark period, Ferrari fell completely behind against the electronics developed by Honda and Renault.
    Ferrari were building petrol engines, not microchips, and them took so long to shift into the modern mentality.
    That's why when Todt arrived, he changed the entire team bit by bit, and got rid of the old school designers and engineers.

    Still there's no excuse for Ferrari to be off the pace these days. Unlike then, today they have the resources, the man power and the technology to at least be competitive at each race.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegablue View Post
    1979 - Scheckter wins Title, followed his teammate and obvioustly Ferrari take constructor's title.
    1980 - Ferrari scores only 7 points.
    1981 - 2 Wins.
    1982 - 3 Wins, and constructor title. Though the WDC could of been Gilles or Pironi's if it wasn't for their tragedies.
    1983 - 3 Wins, and constructor title. The drivers finish 3rd and 4th in the championship, both missing on the title at the last race.
    1984 - 1 Win.
    1985 - 2 Wins. Alboreto comes second in the championship after leading it to the half way point.
    1986 - 0 Wins.
    1987 - 2 Wins.
    1988 - 1 Win.
    1989 - 3 Wins.
    1990 - 6 Wins. Prost finished second, as does Ferrari.
    1991 - 0 Wins.
    1992 - 0 Wins.
    1993 - 0 Wins.
    1994 - 1 Win.
    1995 - 1 Win.
    1996 - Schumacher arrives.

    Aside from 82 - 83 and 1990, Ferrari really didn't fight for the title since their last WDC. And before Schumacher's arrival that was 17 years of really just being a top 5 team at times.

    vecchiasignora is somewhat right that Michael did arrive when Ferrari really lost their winning mentality. And realistically was a massive gamble in his career, so credit to him there.
    As Suzie points out things go in cycles and that was my point as well. It just irks me when people act as though Ferrari did nothing until Todt/Brawn/Schumi arrived. They are not what earned Ferrari it's reputation. It had been earned long before then.


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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDARMYSOJA View Post
    As Suzie points out things go in cycles and that was my point as well. It just irks me when people act as though Ferrari did nothing until Todt/Brawn/Schumi arrived. They are not what earned Ferrari it's reputation. It had been earned long before then.
    True, won't argue there, but that was a horrible long cycle without a title.

    And Todt arrived in 93, and took him 6 years before winning a title in 1999!!!

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegablue View Post
    True, won't argue there, but that was a horrible long cycle without a title.
    Yes, but what many don't factor in is it also coincides with Enzo's failing health, death and the team being in disarray because of it. That was their longest losing streak. You don't lose a guy like Enzo and not suffer.


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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDARMYSOJA View Post
    Yes, but what many don't factor in is it also coincides with Enzo's failing health, death and the team being in disarray because of it. That was their longest losing streak. You don't lose a guy like Enzo and not suffer.
    That most likely played a great role. Without a doubt. However Ferrari was very old school in building cars then compared to the others, and that was their biggest challenge as everything in designing a car had to change.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by vecchiasignora View Post
    Look at how mercedes improved from the last year compared to us. That is the difference between schumacher the car developer, and alonso the guy whose supposed to be some great car improver...
    Maybe schumacher invented their DRS F duct. Maybe the schumacher era was down to brawn.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I think our team of engineers is 2 old school for the new aerodinamic stuff thats going on they are not much into it and thats why we cant make a nice car.
    New times came that we need to take drastic measures off with their heads all of them and bring new engeeners than can make aerodinamic upgrades.
    And yeah sack Domenicali pls and bring Briatore if we can he has a strong hand and will bring order.
    Ferrari might be part of a "circus" but we don't need clowns like Briatore. The suggestion that our engineers are too old for current aero designs is ridiculous. Adrian Newey is 54 and he seems to be doing just fine when it comes to aerodynamics. Bob Bell at Mercedes is also 54 years old and their wing design is the new bit of kit everyone will eventually copy. From where I'm standing the "old school" engineers are doing just fine

  22. #82
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    Huge difference. Schumacher came to us when we were nobodies.We had no winning mentality. posted by Originally Posted by vecchiasignora
    Ferrari has at no time been "nobodies" and had won many a championship before Todt, Brawn and Schumi ever came along. True they were in a long dry spell but won races and championships in that time (everyone seems to forget the WCC's won and close championship fights several years in that "dry spell".)

    Couldn't agree more with REDARMYSOJA Ferrari have always been somebodies even during the dry spell they were still winning GPs so you comment is wayyy... off and wrong

  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by gazoz View Post
    Couldn't agree more with REDARMYSOJA Ferrari have always been somebodies even during the dry spell they were still winning GPs so you comment is wayyy... off and wrong
    I can agree there, but winning a race a year, really isn't winning. We had to pay Berger fortune to convince him back.
    And Senna would have never raced for Ferrari during those years. Prost left McLaren for the obvious clashes with Senna, and because the 89 Ferrari, eventhough broke down more often than finished a race, was fairly fast. But we know what happened in 91.

    So yeah, Ferrari had plenty of history and trophies, but during that time, Williams was way better, McLaren leaps ahead, and then there was Benetton that also over took Ferrari.
    Ferrari weren't nobodies, true, but wasn't appealing to many.

    Though, I do remember reading an article during Todt's first years, that Ron Dennis did have a bit of a secret grudge for never really being chased by Ferrari. So I guess Ferrari was still something, even during the darkest years. :)

    As well, Schumacher didn't build the team or the car. He had great technical input, but those winning years was not all his credit, it was the whole team, every individual involved from Brawn to the cook.

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegablue View Post
    That most likely played a great role. Without a doubt. However Ferrari was very old school in building cars then compared to the others, and that was their biggest challenge as everything in designing a car had to change.
    I wouldn't say they were old school in design, they were however trying to play catch up with new technology, such as carbon fiber and electronics. Changes had been made to improve in that area, like bringing in Barnard and Brunner, it's just that what they tried didn't work. That's what helped usher out Forghieri and Dr. Postelthwaite, so there was a wholesale changing of the guard. They did during this time though come up with the paddle shifter, which is perhaps the greatest innovation in F1 in decades.


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  25. #85
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    And if Ferrari were winning, all of the posts would be fine.
    Im all for critiquing the team, but some of these posts are
    either from mac fans or people coming down off of something...

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDARMYSOJA View Post
    I wouldn't say they were old school in design, they were however trying to play catch up with new technology, such as carbon fiber and electronics. Changes had been made to improve in that area, like bringing in Barnard and Brunner, it's just that what they tried didn't work. That's what helped usher out Forghieri and Dr. Postelthwaite, so there was a wholesale changing of the guard. They did during this time though come up with the paddle shifter, which is perhaps the greatest innovation in F1 in decades.
    Oops, meant not in design, but in understanding the car.

    Yeah, Barnard, tried twice, had a good design with the 640, but everything else was a disaster. Never forget when at the end of 1987, the Ferrari came together in the last 2 races, and then they left the car unchanged for the 1988 season. That was the shocking mentality with Ferrari in those times.

    As for the semi-automatic gearbox and paddle system, it's also the only true mechanical/electronic innovation that's remained since then. Everything else has been labelled illegal or just failed. LOL

  27. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    And if Ferrari were winning, all of the posts would be fine.
    Im all for critiquing the team, but some of these posts are
    either from mac fans or people coming down off of something...
    It's like this in every sport, and also in most marriages that I know of. When things are good, all is well. When things are slightly bad, all the good is instantly forgotten.

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegablue View Post
    I can agree there, but winning a race a year, really isn't winning. We had to pay Berger fortune to convince him back.
    And Senna would have never raced for Ferrari during those years. Prost left McLaren for the obvious clashes with Senna, and because the 89 Ferrari, eventhough broke down more often than finished a race, was fairly fast. But we know what happened in 91.

    So yeah, Ferrari had plenty of history and trophies, but during that time, Williams was way better, McLaren leaps ahead, and then there was Benetton that also over took Ferrari.
    Ferrari weren't nobodies, true, but wasn't appealing to many.
    And yet if you watch back races from that era, the grandstands would still be full of scarlet-clad tifosi, more prominent support than for any other individual or team, even in those times.

    That says it all for me. There are racing teams... and then there's Ferrari.


    The future is RED

  29. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegablue View Post
    Oops, meant not in design, but in understanding the car.

    Yeah, Barnard, tried twice, had a good design with the 640, but everything else was a disaster. Never forget when at the end of 1987, the Ferrari came together in the last 2 races, and then they left the car unchanged for the 1988 season. That was the shocking mentality with Ferrari in those times.
    True, but those were two very dominant wins by Berger. He didn't just win he pretty much smoked the field. Perhaps they felt they had hit on the right design and everyone else would have to play catch up for awhile. Plus, Brunner left, but there was some evolution of the car.

    As for the semi-automatic gearbox and paddle system, it's also the only true mechanical/electronic innovation that's remained since then. Everything else has been labelled illegal or just failed. LOL
    True again. The semi-auto tranny and paddleshift would probably be ruled illegal if it came out today. They weren't as quick to ban something in those days.

    I think the main point I'm aiming for is, Ferrari does react when they aren't doing well, just as they are now, they just don't always react the right way. But when you're around as long as they are you are going to build some duds. Let's just hope this current streak doesn't last as long as the one we are referring to.


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  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grillo View Post
    No difference but Ferrari suspects the other one might be faulty.
    Maybe the whole car is faulty.

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