A little support for Felipe Massa

[Jack]

"Fernando P.... is faster than you. Make sure you understand it ! Sorry fernando baby!" (Sorry guys I couldn't resist)!!

Penson Putton? Pichael Pchumaker? Pewis Pamilton? Pebastian Pettel? Pimi Päikkönen?

Sorry, I don't get the point. Please, could you give me an hint?

[Stormy]

If I may interject, I believe Stormy was suggesting that even when Massa does have a good car, he may well be performing better than he is now; but, regardless of the car, Massa will still not be at the same level as Alonso.

Yeah thats exactly what i said
Ofc Massa will be fast if the car is faster but in comparison to Alonso he will still be slow and we will be calling for his head.

[Alonsomaniac]

If I may interject, I believe Stormy was suggesting that even when Massa does have a good car, he may well be performing better than he is now; but, regardless of the car, Massa will still not be at the same level as Alonso.

True, not at the same level, but the difference will be much smaller.

[Alonsomaniac]

Yeah thats exactly what i said
Ofc Massa will be fast if the car is faster but in comparison to Alonso he will still be slow and we will be calling for his head.

If Alonso has a truely fast car everybody is slow. That was not my point. What I was saying is that in a fast car the difference between the two will be smaller than in a not so good car.
Alonso is fast in everything that has wheels and looks like an F1 car.
Felipe can be very fast but he needs a perfect car to do that.

[sagi58]

If Alonso has a truely fast car everybody is slow. That was not my point. What I was saying is that in a fast car the difference between the two will be smaller than in a not so good car.
Alonso is fast in everything that has wheels and looks like an F1 car.
Felipe can be very fast but he needs a perfect car to do that.

So, at that point, the question will be "What is an acceptable difference between their performances that can be "overlooked"?

[FFFerrari]

So, at that point, the question will be "What is an acceptable difference between their performances that can be "overlooked"?

I would say 0,3 secs in Quali. When you look at teams that have two equal drivers, they are usually without problems within that gap of each other.

[Jas]

http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/4..._cannot_go_on/

[Jas]

http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/4..._cannot_go_on/

massa keeping the faith, lets do the same, i will be sooo happy if hes 0.3 behind alonso! look at last year, he was always a row behind alonso, with drs and the tyres in 2012 it is not the end of the world

[Alonsomaniac]

I would say 0,3 secs in Quali. When you look at teams that have two equal drivers, they are usually without problems within that gap of each other.

Agreed. 0,3 is about it. I'm sure that in a good car Massa can do that.

[Poltergeistes]

Agreed. 0,3 is about it. I'm sure that in a good car Massa can do that.

I think your right once again, and probably ferrari thinks the same, there is only one magician driver on the grid, not felipe or any other driver for that matter is going to win in a car that is behind so many others. the only one who does this is fernando.

[JRX164]

I would say 0,3 secs in Quali. When you look at teams that have two equal drivers, they are usually without problems within that gap of each other.

Yes. Plus occassionaly being faster in qualification and race. But at least bringing home points for the constructors championship.

[Suzie]

A much more positive race today for Felipe. The lack of points is very frustrating, but I'd have to say that lack of points wasn't representative of his drive today.

[Katu]

A much more positive race today for Felipe. The lack of points is very frustrating, but I'd have to say that lack of points wasn't representative of his drive today.

he drove very well today and really deserved some points for it

[racingbradley]

It's a pity about his pit stops. He would have benefited by coming in earlier especially for the last one-----hindsight I guess is a wonderful thing.

[Nova]

If Alonso has a truely fast car everybody is slow. That was not my point. What I was saying is that in a fast car the difference between the two will be smaller than in a not so good car.
Alonso is fast in everything that has wheels and looks like an F1 car.
Felipe can be very fast but he needs a perfect car to do that.

Felipe IS fast....
"Felipe can be fast but he needs a perfect car to do that" As with every other driver, save Alonso, to a degree.
MS is a great driver, yet in almost 3 years, nada...
Kimi, same, Heiki, same, Button was nowhere with Honda until Brawn showed up. It so easy to bash Felipe, yet
he always drives his buns off and its really no different for most drivers..ya gotta have a good car.

[REDARMYSOJA]

A much more positive race today for Felipe. The lack of points is very frustrating, but I'd have to say that lack of points wasn't representative of his drive today.

Yes, agreed. He needed a little help for his strategy to work, like a safety car or higher attrition rate. Still, a good, workman like effort.

[Poltergeistes]

I agree with the statements from the team and drivers. it was a step forward.

we didn't have one car producing so much and the other so little. So Felipe's performance was pretty close to Fernando's today. he needs his consistency, and he needs some peace.

People never give him credits, and yet Ferrari keeps him, do you think they really would if he was such a disaster?

Both drivers did very good in my opnion, with what they have in hands, felipe's and rob's overtime work during this 2 weeks brought things together, this is important to give the team more security, we want to see both drivers doing well and not just one.

I don't understand the fans who complains the entire time, at the end of the day Felipe and Fernando for that matter have worked very hard in trying to make this project work.

We are not so bad guys, it's just that the field is very close, and we knew this was going to happen, this was supposed to start happening in 2009 but because of loopholes wasn't.

Redbull is no longer the dominant force, in different times in the race we have both our drivers fighting with mclarens and redbulls.

To me this is perfect F1. it will go down to the last race, developing things till the last hour, working hard for every single lap. that's going to be the deciding factor in my opnion.

As long as we've got hearts we are ok. Ferrari is a fighting team, Ferrari is a passional team, that's why we love it right?

Good job scuderia! we are definetly going forward, even if the scoreboard isn't exactly showing it right now, they worked very hard.

[F2002]

This thread is slowly becoming an exercise in human brain adaptation.

The bloke hasn't scored a single point in 3 races, and people are saying that his performance was good.

Sadly, we are getting used to accepting mediocre things lately.

Just to make sure this is not a whinging post, I want to clarify that it really was a fantastic race to watch, Rosberg was magnanimous.

But to say that either of the Ferraris, Massa especially, did a good job, I really cannot understand.

[Suzie]

This thread is slowly becoming an exercise in human brain adaptation.

The bloke hasn't scored a single point in 3 races, and people are saying that his performance was good.

Sadly, we are getting used to accepting mediocre things lately.

Just to make sure this is not a whinging post, I want to clarify that it really was a fantastic race to watch, Rosberg was magnanimous.

But to say that either of the Ferraris, Massa especially, did a good job, I really cannot understand.

The thread, as the title says, is one of support. We are supporting Felipe who did not have the best 2 races but showed tons of improvement today.
It's not about accepting the mediocre as none of us want to see the team trundling around in the midfield, or lower, but you can't deny that both drivers didn't do their damnedest today with the equipment they have been given ie. a good job.

[Curbs]

best 2 races

Well, more like 3 and not races but seasons...but that doesn´t matter. As long he is happy in the team, and his father gets good pasta in the garage everything is just fine :) Peace and love.

[Suzie]

My comment was in the context of this season, as you well know.

But welcome back

[F2002]

The thread, as the title says, is one of support. We are supporting Felipe who did not have the best 2 races but showed tons of improvement today.
It's not about accepting the mediocre as none of us want to see the team trundling around in the midfield, or lower, but you can't deny that both drivers didn't do their damnedest today with the equipment they have been given ie. a good job.

I absolutely get your point, but my personal view is that climbing from 15th (in Malaysia) to 13th (in China) cannot be defined as tons of improvement.

It's an illusion of improvement.

[Greig]

This thread is slowly becoming an exercise in human brain adaptation.

The bloke hasn't scored a single point in 3 races, and people are saying that his performance was good.

Sadly, we are getting used to accepting mediocre things lately.

Just to make sure this is not a whinging post, I want to clarify that it really was a fantastic race to watch, Rosberg was magnanimous.

But to say that either of the Ferraris, Massa especially, did a good job, I really cannot understand.

Don't read the thread then, simple If you don't think Massa performed well today against the best driver on the grid then so be it.

[Suzie]

I absolutely get your point, but my personal view is that climbing from 15th (in Malaysia) to 13th (in China) cannot be defined as tons of improvement.

It's an illusion of improvement.

I don't think it's an illusion at all, I think it is obvious that he drove a lot better, but each to their own

[scuderiafan]

Well, since everyone liked the end of the race,you have felipe to thank for that. If he didn't hold all those cars up, along with Kimi, the race would have been a snore as it was in the beginning. But Massa bunched things up, and pretty impressively manage to keep much faster cars like Vettel, Kimi, button etc. behind him.
You have got to give him that.

[Nova]

This thread is slowly becoming an exercise in human brain adaptation.

The bloke hasn't scored a single point in 3 races, and people are saying that his performance was good.

Sadly, we are getting used to accepting mediocre things lately.

Just to make sure this is not a whinging post, I want to clarify that it really was a fantastic race to watch, Rosberg was magnanimous.

But to say that either of the Ferraris, Massa especially, did a good job, I really cannot understand.

So, you think if Button, or Ham, or MS, or Rosberg, or any driver on the grid had the F2012, they would do better?
Is it me, or did Massa make a better start than FA? Who was driving the Red behind FA that basically was doing the same lap times?
Felipe didnt all of a sudden become a bad driver. I rate him as one of the better drivers, and his past years in good cars have proved that.
He equaled MS on many occasions, matched Kimi, even outperformed him, was beating FA in Germany not too long ago, until asked to move over.
Factly, he has been close to FA whenever they gave him a good car.
Are we talking about the same driver? Because the other drivers I mentioned are no slouches.

This a support Massa thread...read that again. I will be the first to criticize Ferrari for building such a bowwow, but I aint blaming the kid.

[Rishu]

We can all bash Massa as long as we want but just spare a thought for him.
1. He is down on confidence
2. F2012 is not giving him a chance to gain this confidence
3. Has a team mate who is killing him

I am not being judgmental here if he should be fired or not but it’s easy to sit on a couch & keep the fingers on keyboard rather than driving a stubborn beast. But I fear this will be the last season for him with Ferrari.

[Poltergeistes]

I really hope he stays, i know it's hard, but as long as the team thinks he is an asset and not a liability, the fans should do the same.

another driver in felipes shoes would not redesign the car, the setups, the strategies and so on, to those who thought and still thinks felipe is such a horrible driver, then how come after his accident another driver couldn't do half what he was doing so far? luca was pretty bad and everyone said we shouldn't compare because badoer has been testing for many years, but then came fisichella, which was driving very well for the force india at the time ferrari took him in, and again, could not stand out.

everyone always agrees on this one thing: "It's impossible to win a championship without a winning car"

[F2002]

So, you think if Button, or Ham, or MS, or Rosberg, or any driver on the grid had the F2012, they would do better?
Is it me, or did Massa make a better start than FA? Who was driving the Red behind FA that basically was doing the same lap times?
Felipe didnt all of a sudden become a bad driver. I rate him as one of the better drivers, and his past years in good cars have proved that.
He equaled MS on many occasions, matched Kimi, even outperformed him, was beating FA in Germany not too long ago, until asked to move over.
Factly, he has been close to FA whenever they gave him a good car.
Are we talking about the same driver? Because the other drivers I mentioned are no slouches.

This a support Massa thread...read that again. I will be the first to criticize Ferrari for building such a bowwow, but I aint blaming the kid.

The saddest thing of all is that Ferrari fans have stopped sounding like the good old Enzo, and are starting to echo Domenicali.

Come on mate - he has zero points !

I don't want to get into what would have happened if the other big guns had the F2012 in their hands, after all almost everybody except the very worst cars have earned points this season so far.

Of course this is a Massa support thread, but what sort of support has to be left when you are earning zero points.

We can support our drivers as much as we want, but we are Ferrari fans after all.

[F2002]

Don't read the thread then, simple If you don't think Massa performed well today against the best driver on the grid then so be it.

I try not to read certain threads Greig honestly - your stats may tell you.

But it can't be that the Ferrari fan community starts to sound like a bunch of resigned losers.

Ferrari has traditionally carried a winning spirit, through the creation of fast cars driven by quick drivers.

If you look at the comments in some parts of the Italian press (where, I always say, you will find the true Ferrari fans), you will see that the level of empathy towards certain elements of the team is dropping and dropping.

Only Fernando and a few people around him deserve to be praised and sympathized with - he is the one truly carrying the Ferrari spirit at the moment, fighting his way with a car which, we all agree, is far worse than the main competition.

What some of us are failing to realise is that we have already thrown away the constructors' championship.