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Thread: Malaysia - let's talk F1

  1. #1
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    Malaysia - let's talk F1

    Now that the dust has settled, and all other threads have been flooded with posts of overjoy about Fernando's victory (rightly so), I wanted to ask: what, in your view, really contributed to yesterday's victory? Apart from Fernando's unquestioned ability of course.

    - Was it the two Mclaren incidents: Button's crash and Hamilton's delay in the pit ?

    - Was it the rain, and therefore optimal damp conditions that caused F2012 to behave especially well ?

    - Has Ferrari brought some new stuff at Malaysia that made it more competitive in race trim ?

    - A mixture of the above, and Fernando did the rest ?

    Everybody is saying that the car hasn't improved and that all the problems we had before Malaysia are still there.

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    Mainly 2 and 3. Even if Mcl hadn't made that error, Alonso was so much faster on inters, he would have passed. He opened up 1s a lap JUST in S2.
    And Alonso did say Ferrari had improved by 3 tenths. New front wing that wasn't raced in Australia.

    But most of all, it really was that Ferrari and Alonso did a better job than the rest.


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

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    Quote Originally Posted by F2002 View Post
    Now that the dust has settled, and all other threads have been flooded with posts of overjoy about Fernando's victory (rightly so), I wanted to ask: what, in your view, really contributed to yesterday's victory? Apart from Fernando's unquestioned ability of course.

    - Was it the two Mclaren incidents: Button's crash and Hamilton's delay in the pit ?

    - Was it the rain, and therefore optimal damp conditions that caused F2012 to behave especially well ?

    - Has Ferrari brought some new stuff at Malaysia that made it more competitive in race trim ?

    - A mixture of the above, and Fernando did the rest ?

    Everybody is saying that the car hasn't improved and that all the problems we had before Malaysia are still there.
    The problems are definitely still there as we seen in the dry conditions Perez was hunting Alonso down... I'd say it was a combination of McLaren's stumbles and Alonso's brilliance..
    "That has made me fall in love with Ferrari even more today than ever." Fernando Alonso

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    Quote Originally Posted by scuderiafan View Post
    Mainly 2 and 3. Even if Mcl hadn't made that error, Alonso was so much faster on inters, he would have passed. He opened up 1s a lap JUST in S2.
    And Alonso did say Ferrari had improved by 3 tenths. New front wing that wasn't raced in Australia.

    But most of all, it really was that Ferrari and Alonso did a better job than the rest.

    I doubt Ferrari brought anything new to the race..

    I think they changed the setup during the red flag which worked well for FA, it was a bit like a second race..

    I am pleasantly surprised that we won after all the troubles..

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    It's mostly the rain that helped us. We do indeed lack the pace in the dry and it almost costed us the win. But yeah I guess that new wing did save Fernando from being caught by Perez. McLarens woudn't have been an issue one way or another. Alonso jumped them at the pitstops and even if Button didn't smash up his front wing they wouldn't have been a problem either, as demonstrated by Hamilton. But of course all this would've been different in the dry, we might not have even made it onto the podium if it never rained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meh123 View Post
    I doubt Ferrari brought anything new to the race..

    I think they changed the setup during the red flag which worked well for FA, it was a bit like a second race..

    I am pleasantly surprised that we won after all the troubles..
    http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/...rd-says-Alonso


    In Stefano Domenicali, we have a team boss who has proved to be a leader. - Luca diMontezemelo

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    The main question is how much can the car improve from now till China. I feel Fernando needs to win one more race before we get to europe to keep WDC chances alive.

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    I think all the above together.

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    Its a weird car we have. We lack traction. Is it the lack of mechanical grip, or aero downforce? I don't know. But either way, we had to compromise by setting high aero downforce setup to get enough grip to make the car stable and allow us to be competitive in the twisty part of the circuit, at the cost of top speed of course.

    At least I think that's why we are ok at sector 2, but our top speed is among the lowest, which really hurt us overall.

    Another weird problem is we are losing traction as our fuel load goes down. This is really weird for me. We are losing so much that the lighter weight of the car is not enough to compensate for the loss of traction. Why is this so?

    Does this have something to do with the balance of the car? Wrong weight distribution?

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    I think we went for a compromised setup knowing that it would most likely rain. So with a higher downforce setup we nailed it in the rain. I don't think we would have been as slow in the dry if we had went for a slightly more dry orientated setup.

    I think this is the reason why we destroyed every one in the wet conditions. As it dried Perez really got it together due to his dry race setup.

    Just my thoughts :)

    ET
    Forza Ferrari!

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    The rain definitely helped. Up until the point the track started drying out, Alonso was the fastest car on the track. The McLarens were never an issue for us. Even without Hamilton's botched pit stop and Button's collision, we had them easily covered through sheer pace. As others have said, for some reason, our car works well in the wet and hence Alonso was able to get to the lead.

    Also not forgetting the fact that the car has been fine tuned more since Australia. There might not have been any big upgrades for this race, but after FP1 and FP2, the car looked a lot more balanced and well setup than it did last weekend.

    Hopefully the upgrades coming for China will make another big push forward.

    The future is RED

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    First of all Alonso's ability, rain, good pitstops and strategy, while other drivers and teams made mistakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrari.com
    Chassis: Alonso 295, Massa 294
    Does this mean Alonso was also using a new(er) chassis or not necessarily?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElTigro View Post
    I think we went for a compromised setup knowing that it would most likely rain. So with a higher downforce setup we nailed it in the rain. I don't think we would have been as slow in the dry if we had went for a slightly more dry orientated setup.

    I think this is the reason why we destroyed every one in the wet conditions. As it dried Perez really got it together due to his dry race setup.

    Just my thoughts :)

    ET
    Yes, that's very reasonable, I think that they did bias the setup for the wet.

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    Rain, pitstops, fighting spirit, Fernando's brilliant driving.
    Grazie Felipe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrarichamp View Post
    The main question is how much can the car improve from now till China. I feel Fernando needs to win one more race before we get to europe to keep WDC chances alive.
    i would say win one more race in the next 4 races and in the rest get a good haul of points

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    Quote Originally Posted by F2002 View Post
    Yes, that's very reasonable, I think that they did bias the setup for the wet.
    It must be a normal thing to bias the set up for a wet race when all weather reports are saying Rain Rain Rain!!
    I am sure nearly all the teams had the same idea.[Some smaller teams like to gamble sometimes]
    Any way we all know with a race like that the car's performance even out and most of the time it is the driver that makes the difference.
    When the cars where following the Safety car ONLY Alonso was looking for different lines around the circuit.Reminded me M.Schumacher used to try that when all through the weekend the track was dry and then it rained for the race!!
    The Ferrari managing to keep more heat in the tyres also helped a lot until the track started to dry up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F2008 View Post
    First of all Alonso's ability, rain, good pitstops and strategy, while other drivers and teams made mistakes.

    Does this mean Alonso was also using a new(er) chassis or not necessarily?
    All 3 chassis are the same chassis made at the same time. Just different numbering as each individual chassis is assigned its own number.

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    Everything and everyone played their part even Massa. Tinkering when under red flag added a different dimension to the race as was reminiscent of when they could alter setups on Sunday. Alonso made some smart changes in my opinion... did Massa go a different but wrong way as he did in FP2? The Macs were forced to optimise for qualifying due to the Mercs so maybe were limited by how much they could adapt their setup to the conditions.

    Tactically we were excellent only flaw was not going on to the hards like Perez, he mentions he was losing the fronts and that he thought Alonso was losing his rears (more important for traction). Hards paid off for Perez.

    My personal highlight was seeing the team think outside the box when it came to utilising Massa's track position. They used him to delay Hammys release which allowed Alonso to jump the Mcs. Clear air was a luxury that Alonso exploited. They also tried to bring Massa out ahead of Alonso and use him as a rear-guard if only for a bit. Unfortunately we did a rare slow stop.

    We are thinking more this year and our pit crew is immense... good combination. Much improved from seasons gone by.

    Anyone heard any rumours/ideas about how we will improve the car for China?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    It must be a normal thing to bias the set up for a wet race when all weather reports are saying Rain Rain Rain!!
    I am sure nearly all the teams had the same idea.[Some smaller teams like to gamble sometimes]
    Any way we all know with a race like that the car's performance even out and most of the time it is the driver that makes the difference.
    When the cars where following the Safety car ONLY Alonso was looking for different lines around the circuit.Reminded me M.Schumacher used to try that when all through the weekend the track was dry and then it rained for the race!!
    The Ferrari managing to keep more heat in the tyres also helped a lot until the track started to dry up.
    You can never be sure.

    A good portion of the race was in the dry don't forget, and the full wets were only used for a few laps.



    I'm sure you would find some were more aggressive thsn others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F2002 View Post
    You can never be sure.

    A good portion of the race was in the dry don't forget, and the full wets were only used for a few laps.



    I'm sure you would find some were more aggressive thsn others.
    A good portion of the race was in the dry but Alonso gained the time [on inter] when the track was wet!!! [except with Perez]
    I agree that some where more aggressive especially Hamilton.During qualifying his Mclaren had the stiffest front suspension as usual.
    I can't imagine his team could change to a softer set up while the car was on the grid before the restart.
    Last edited by Dino; 27th March 2012 at 03:41.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino View Post
    A good portion of the race was in the dry but Alonso gained the time [on inter] when the track was wet!!! [except with Perez]
    I agree that some where more aggressive especially Hamilton.During qualifying his Mclaren had the stiffest front suspension as usual.
    I can't imagine his team could change to a softer set up while the car was on the grid before the restart.
    BTW - bongu siehbi.

    I realised you are from Malta.

  22. #22
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    The rain, McLaren screwing the pooch, Fernando's awesome drive, good calls from the pits (We could have easily panicked and put Fernando on slicks too early or totally missed out).

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    Like others already pointed out, it was the circumstances on track and the team's and especially Fernando's adapting to those circumstances that gave us the win.
    The car was still the car as it was and we are still in trouble, just as Fernando already said after the race.
    You can run like the wind, but you'll never outrun the Prancing Horse

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    Hello again guys, good reading of thoughts and opinion from all.s I just thought ill join in with my opinion, 100% the rain helped the f2012 and in Alonso's hands it's pure skills and experience. I remember back not sure if its Jerez or Barca on cold temp straight out of the box, both Alonso and Massa were topping the time table, it wasn't a small margin either, its only when track start warming up when others start catching up, that's why the tyre heading problem is good..but after this last race i think they are over heating the tyres, just like one of the guys here said. Alonso did pull away from Perez, not only he over took him and Webber on damp track he pull away from Perez and gain over 7's, that buffer saved him from the late charge from Perez on inters, that sauber is like the f150 last year, good at preserving it's tyres, but sauber is way better at heating its tyres than the f150...(MOST LIKELY BECAUSE REAR PULL-ROD SUSP), that the f150 didn't have last year. Not only Alonso was the only one setting fast times then(with full fuel)on wet track, Massa was gaining on Rosberg as well until he made a mistake, what amazes me is that all off the teams were struggling accept f2012 on the wet, as soon as track start drying up most of them came back and start setting fast times. So i still believe that the front pull rod is the key(with full fuel), but the tyre degradation is still high, but not as bad as mercedes, that's why i agree with someone here, saying for the team to put pull rods on the f150, and test that out, it might help them out with there problem at the moment. So mistakes or no mistake from other teams, Alonso will still have overtaken them(Vettel & Lewis) no doubt in my mind, lastly the car is better than the last race, but still need big improvements on downforce..bring on China

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    pull rod suspension helps in wet conditions as it lowers centre of gravity thus creating more stable car with heavier front axle. however, in dry races at higher speeds stability comes second after drag and pull rod produces more drag hence we are slower in dry weather.

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    Here is the latest from Autosport, on topic:

    Ferrari technical chief Pat Fry says the pressure on his team to deliver much-needed improvements to its car has not eased, despite Fernando Alonso's victory in the Malaysian Grand Prix.

    Alonso's success at Sepang on Sunday has lifted him to the head of the world championship standings after the opening two races of the campaign.

    But despite the encouragement that comes from the situation the team is in now, Fry says there is no escaping the reality that the outfit must deliver big gains in performance if is to launch a serious world championship bid with its troublesome F2012.

    "I think the pressure is on the team to try and get the car performing," said Fry, who is working on a raft of updates to the car that should be ready for the Spanish Grand Prix.

    "Here [in Malaysia], if anything, we had to do the best we could to make the most of the situation. In these situations our car is quite reasonable. But if it had been a completely dry race it would have been a totally different story."

    Ferrari's rivals know that the weather did play a major part in allowing Alonso to overcome the current deficiencies in his car, but they concede that tyre factors do appear to be helping Ferrari as well.

    McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh said: "These tyres are slightly more benign than last year, but they are not easy and we are still learning. This is the second race on these new tyres, and we haven't much experience.

    "If it was a dry race we were strong, but in these wet/slippery conditions other people can fall into the sweet spot and that builds confidence.

    "But [having Ferrari win] is good for the championship, good for the sport, and good for the audience. It wasn't so great for us, but it could have been worse.

    "We don't underestimate Ferrari. But it was a bit of a turn up for the books that they did win."

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    Quote Originally Posted by bonzo View Post
    pull rod suspension helps in wet conditions as it lowers centre of gravity thus creating more stable car with heavier front axle. however, in dry races at higher speeds stability comes second after drag and pull rod produces more drag hence we are slower in dry weather.
    with full fuel we weren't slow, not only we were matching them in race pace we were slightly ahead, that's why RB was worried, because they themselves have good race pace, quicker than the mclerens...the only problem is every time the fuel comes down, that f2012 becomes unstable, that's the big mystery at moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vae32 View Post
    with full fuel we weren't slow, not only we were matching them in race pace we were slightly ahead, that's why RB was worried, because they themselves have good race pace, quicker than the mclerens...the only problem is every time the fuel comes down, that f2012 becomes unstable, that's the big mystery at moment.
    Could this issue of being unstable on low fuel be linked in some way to the 'chassis flexing' issue we have read about ?

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