Are Pirelli stopping racing?

[sagi58]

He never done it face to face, he done it in a post race rant in the media, you have no idea what they talked about at Mugello and neither do I.

You're right, neither of us know; but, I like to think that both of us are intelligent enough to realize he probably wasn't at Pirelli to talk about the migratory habits of the Canada Goose!!

[Greig]

Or maybe it was just the usual run of the mill meeting every team and driver has with Pirelli? Do you think its really unusual for a team or driver to be speaking with Pirelli?

Surely if he wants to raise his concerns one to one as you put it then he would go speak to the boss with Ross in tow?

[sagi58]

You're probably right, it was probably no big deal; but, I did find it interesting, just the same.
As WRX202 posted earlier:

P.S. Button complained about the tyres too but obviously being Michael it had to make head lines...

[Greig]

And he is off again

Michael Schumacher has renewed his attack on Pirelli's current specification of tyres - claiming that racing with them is like driving on 'raw eggs'.

The seven-time world champion criticised the rubber after the Bahrain Grand Prix when he suggested that drivers were not being able to push their cars to the limit because they needed to conserve their tyres too much.

Although Schumacher has been a lone voice in hitting out at the tyres - with other drivers happy to accept the challenge thrown at them – the German stands firm that the situation is not good.

"I just think that they're playing a much too big effect because they are so peaky and so special that they don't put our cars or ourselves to the limit," Schumacher told CNN in an interview broadcast ahead of this weekend's Spanish Grand Prix.

"We drive like on raw eggs and I don't want to stress the tyres at all. Otherwise you just overdo it and you go nowhere."

Pirelli has said numerous times that it is producing the kind of tyres that teams have asked it to – with high degradation proving to be a key factor in helping spice up the spectacle.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99437

[Alessandra]

Autosport:”Pirelli has said numerous times that it is producing the kind of tyres that teams have asked it to – with high degradation proving to be a key factor in helping spice up the spectacle.”

Is it the teams (FOTA) who’ve asked for them? If so presumably Mercedes was a participant in the decision? Or was it the FIA?

I kind of sympathise with what MSC’s saying, but am still riding my personal hobby-horse over the one supreme car having taken both world titles over the past few years. Anything that levels the playing field a bit for the drivers – who all have to deal with the same problems which the current tyres present – I’m inclined to favour.

At least Michael isn’t having to deal with Mr Ecclestone’s spectacle- enhancing notion of spraying the track with water when it got a bit dull of a few years ago!!

[Greig]

Speaking at Mugello, Hembery reiterated his belief that the current generation of tyres had helped produce more exciting racing, but said Pirelli was always open to discussion about it's strategy and approach.

"We were asked to come up with a certain approach, and that was agreed with teams," Hembery said. "The leader for the teams' views was actually Ross [Brawn], and he told us that Canada 2010 was the model they wanted and that is what we worked on.

[sav_pap]

Autosport:”Pirelli has said numerous times that it is producing the kind of tyres that teams have asked it to – with high degradation proving to be a key factor in helping spice up the spectacle.”

Is it the teams (FOTA) who’ve asked for them? If so presumably Mercedes was a participant in the decision? Or was it the FIA?

I kind of sympathise with what MSC’s saying, but am still riding my personal hobby-horse over the one supreme car having taken both world titles over the past few years. Anything that levels the playing field a bit for the drivers – who all have to deal with the same problems which the current tyres present – I’m inclined to favour.

At least Michael isn’t having to deal with Mr Ecclestone’s spectacle- enhancing notion of spraying the track with water when it got a bit dull of a few years ago!!

I think this Poll says it all if we see the results so far. Most of us believe that Pirelli tyres are stopping racing. It depends also on what anyone want to see.
The fastest driver in the top podium or the cleverest-most conservative?
I'm with the first but it's not wrong somenone to be with the second. It's subjective, I think.
But it's true, I sometimes miss the old (pure racing) days.

[Alessandra]

Greig @ 126

Ah so...... very interesting.

sav-pap & 127

But isn't great driver racing about being able to respond to circumstances and have great driving /racing skills such as a capacity for brilliant starts, amazing spatial judgement at corners and overtaking, superb car control in the wet, etc etc. So , I suppose I'm arguing against myself now in that we could therefore do without the fancy tyres stuff. But the ability to judge when to push and when to exercise control is stil a racing skill.
BAsically what I'm saying is that I don't want to see RBR winning WDC yet again with superb car aerodynamics or Brawn ( and I'm fond of Ross Brawn) with an ' interesting' interpretation of the rules.

Having the nouse to know when to push your tyres and how/ when to ease off is good too?

MAybe what we really need is a little less info from the pit wall to the driver which might really sort out the driver men from the boys. Just a thought

[Hornet]

I don't think any teams want a tire that suddenly falls off the cliff once it degrades.
Well, maybe Bernie may find that amusing, but I doubt any team wants to deal with such upredictable tires.

Anyone knows if Luca have said anything about this in the past?

[Alessandra]

[QUOTE=Hornet;724637]I don't think any teams want a tire that suddenly falls off the cliff once it degrades.


Yeah, that is perhaps a bit extreme

[RedRebel40]

Did you guys see the drivers after the Malaysian GP? they didn't sweat because they didn't had to push the cars. Maybe they can bring back old champions to drive the cars like Sterling Moss and Fangio?

[Kingdom Hearts]

As long as they get rid of the marbles, I'm ok . There is nothing worst that drivers that can't go out the racing line because the marbles.

[sagi58]

I don't think any teams want a tire that suddenly falls off the cliff once it degrades.
Well, maybe Bernie may find that amusing, but I doubt any team wants to deal with such upredictable tires.

Anyone knows if Luca have said anything about this in the past?

I haven't found anything that can be directly attributed to di Montezemolo; but, the following is an indication of how "serious" this issue is for Ferrari:

Ferrari managers set out their stall for 2012

...In other Ferrari news, the team has hired highly experienced operations engineer Steve Clark, formerly of Mercedes, as head of race engineers. They’ve also hired Hirohide Hamashima, one of the faces of Bridgestone Motorsport. “He will head up a new project focusing on an in-depth assessment of an area crucial to performance, which is the interaction between the car and its tyres and he will also be our technical link to Pirelli,” said Domenicali.

Hamashima is well known and trusted by Ferrari, the Scuderia had a very tight relationship with Bridgestone in the mid-2000s, the dominant years for the team.

One of Ferrari’s weaknesses since those days has been the way it struggles to make best use of use the harder compound tyres when it has to set the car up at races to operate on two compounds, as it does under current F1 rules. It has taken them some time to find a solution for this and Hamashima is the most experienced person imaginable for this job, although he doesn’t have knowledge of Pirelli compounds, he does know many of the Pirelli engineers very well as they are largely ex-Bridgestone people...

[Greig]

Did you guys see the drivers after the Malaysian GP? they didn't sweat because they didn't had to push the cars. Maybe they can bring back old champions to drive the cars like Sterling Moss and Fangio?

Or because it was raining and pretty cool?

[Greig]

Tyres have always been a crucial element for any F1 car ever.

[sagi58]

I would imagine ALL elements are crucial in any win! Even Lady Luck!!

[sagi58]

Just because I'm still learning about F1, I tend to ask some dumb questions. This is my "Dumb question of the day":
Would we have a problem with Schumi's comments/criticism of Pirelli IF he was still in a Ferrari?

[Greig]

Well people did not like Massa blaming tyres. If MS was beating his team mate then maybe his comments would seem less sour grapes.

[LightAmaterasu]

Its true that the Pirelli tyres have done well by increasing the levels of unpredictability and brought a somewhat 'equality' in terms of performance BUT they've only done so by limiting the power in a driver's hands. So it ruins the point of racing. It's like having fish and chips, only the fish are reduced to the size of the french fries. Because however interesting things get on in the race, tyres, aerodynamics etc., are the side elements. The driver's ability and skill is the main element and should be allowed to reign supreme.

[sav_pap]

I think that with the current situation concerning the tires, a 2.0 litre engine with less than 700 hp would be more suitable for the f1 cars. Or the 1.5 litre - turbo.

[sav_pap]

And also I'm afraid that I have to agree with Schumacer's comments.

[ferrari4life]

listening to the crickets on track at q3...sure does proove it

[ferrari4life]

ignore

[Hornet]

Looking at Q3 today, it does shows that Schumi was on to something. Look at how many drivers who decided to save tires.

The tire situation is this bad. It becomes a competition of who's the most conservative.

[Cheeseman]

Looking at Q3 today, it does shows that Schumi was on to something. Look at how many drivers who decided to save tires.

The tire situation is this bad. It becomes a competition of who's the most conservative.

Yeah I agree. The FIA should rethink the tyre situation. It spoils the show. All the drivers should receive new tyres for qualifying which doesn't affect the overall amount allowed for the weekend. That way we will see everyone going flat out. All the cars can then start the race on whichever compound they want and everyone will have brand new tyres for the race

[Italian Spirit]

Italian Spirit: "Entschuldigen Sie mich, Herr Schumacher, something bothers me about your problem with the Pirelli tyres: isn't it with such bad tyres that Mercedes finally won again a GP after being put on a strict "diet" for more than 50 years?"
Michael Schumacher: "Jawohl, ja, vielleicht, aber mit dem falschen Fahrer..."

(I let you guys with the pleasure of translating...)

[F2008]

I think DRS adds to it. Track position is not important anymore, so everyone is saving tyres to have the best possible race pace.

[Rob]

I think DRS adds to it. Track position is not important anymore, so everyone is saving tyres to have the best possible race pace.

So soon what we will have is drivers going and doing lap and coming in just to get the sector times. Pole position shoot out, is what is says. Shoot out, not drive round slow get sector times and then save tyres. Want see them push hard as they can.

[Red passion]

Just because I'm still learning about F1, I tend to ask some dumb questions. This is my "Dumb question of the day":
Would we have a problem with Schumi's comments/criticism of Pirelli IF he was still in a Ferrari?

NO WAY

[sagi58]

NO WAY

Judging by your avatar, I'm going to guess we might be in the minority!!