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Thread: Are Pirelli stopping racing?

  1. #1
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    Are Pirelli stopping racing?

    Schumacher critical of Pirelli tyres and says he is not happy not being able to race but constantly having to manage tyres. F1
    Think he has a point?

    Forza Ferrari

  2. #2
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    Yes he has a point, but I would blame it on the FIA/FOM. Pirelli just built the tyres as they were asked.


    Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.

  3. #3
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    f1 is no longer about racing..its about artificial devices...however tire management soulld always be a part of a drivers skills
    we're number one

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    Yeah I think there should be an element of talent in managing tyres, but is 7/8 laps before tyres being done a good thing?

    Probably is a delicate balance between tyres being too hard and durable (2005) and letting them use them at full racing speed for 20odd laps.

    Forza Ferrari

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    Yeah I think there should be an element of talent in managing tyres, but is 7/8 laps before tyres being done a good thing?

    Probably is a delicate balance between tyres being too hard and durable (2005) and letting them use them at full racing speed for 20odd laps.
    I think the problem now is that when the tyres start to fall off they fall way off, no choice really but to go in. It would be nice to see a better balance as you suggest. I'd like to see someone be able to go the full distance on a set as well, or at least just one stop.


    Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.

  6. #6
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    Interesting question. Personally I'm torn between drivers pushing their skills to the limit in controlling the car where they can make it go as fast as they are capable of without spinning off track, and tire management and strategies.

    Managing tires would certainly make it less important to be able to push your car as fast as it can go during race as you need to maintain a certain speed that's a balance between good lap times and preserving the tires lifespan. And I think, when a driver gets within this zone of being more conservative, most drivers will be able to drive well and we don't see drivers making mistakes or taking wild risk.

    But I like strategy too, I think its an important element in a race. So its really hard to find the right balance between brute force racing and strategical racing.

  7. #7
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    I think they are stopping it in a way, as drivers can not push every lap. They can, but after 7-8 laps tyres are gone. Should have another tyre company in F1, so then we would see them lasting bit longer, but also giving grip for longer. Tyre management is part of racing, but to do it at the expense of racing?
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

  8. #8
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    Yes i totally agree that Pirelli's tyre are stopping race because we dont much dirver battle.I dont know what they understand to make such a bad tire.They sold out very quickly and this causes to see tyre battle.No more pushing no more fighting on the track.We cant see the real pace of the cars sometimes.That can not be excitting races.Drivers were pushing with Bridgestones 20laps eaisly and i miss them.Maybe we dont need 20 laps but 12-15-18 is ok.Look at Pirelli now they can just keep going on 7-8 laps.This is not the picnic

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    Pirelli tyre will never give us Hungary 98 Schumi do quali lap after lap, It looks pathetic to see Kimi last race fall away in the latter part of the race because his tyres were shot. I think we need a balance tyre where you can push flat out for 10-15 lap and then replace them. stop drivers from going over half the race distance on one set but allow the drivers to eek every bit of performance from the pirellis.

    quali is boring when drivers don't want to go out in Q3 to safe tyres. I don't know give the drivers 3 sets of tyres for quali if you don't use them u
    you lose them.another 3 sets for the race.

    PS on a separate note I miss refuelling

  10. #10
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    Today's F1 is much better than the old F1, where tyre management was irrelevant and it was just a series of sprints. The drivers need to adapt their styles so they can make the tyres last but also get the speed out of them.

    All drivers have had to adapt, so if MS can't manage his tyres it's his own problem.

  11. #11
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    I don't think he is alone in having the problem

    I don't recall tyres in the past just falling away so dramatically.

    Forza Ferrari

  12. #12
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    Schumi does have a point, but I wouldn't go that far. Pirelli might have gone a bit overboard and made the tyres too weak (or FIA has chosen wrong compounds for some tracks, Bahrain could have used medium/hard it seemed), but the other end of the spectrum is also bad. We need pitstops to make the race interesting (and to have a possibility for a McMower failure in the pits) and the tyre management gives us that.

    As we saw, the 2 stop strategy WAS possible today, but ultimately the 3 stop was better. To me that is interesting racing.

  13. #13
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    The other thing I don't like is that drivers have to save tyres during the weekend for the race. I would like to see everyone have new tyres for the whole race. I'm not a big fan of the different tyre compounds either. If they have to use 2 different compounds then maybe the soft tyre should be used only in qualifying and the harder tyres in the race but I don't see the point of having two different compounds

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    It appears to me that the fia in trying to make racing more exciting, are actually making it a bit artificial. Gimmicks, the tires playing a huge
    part in this. Have to use 2 compounds tires= silly...tires that last 7 laps= silly...Its as if they feel the racing isnt enough and have to provide
    some type of show in the pits. And it doesnt really give a true indication of a cars performance. Racing dictated by tires IS tire management.
    I prefer to see real racing and race strategy, not tire mgt strategy.

    Mabey Im old fashioned, but I liked when there werent people telling the tire co's how to build race tires, n they built them as good as
    their technology allowed at the time.

  15. #15
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    If anything Pirelli made races exciting, exactly what we spectators wanted. And even now when Ferrari is failing, it doesn't feel like I am wasting time watching F1, thanks to Pirelli.

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    I think that it is a delicate thing!!!!!!If you have a good balanced car you can save your tires by making good laps and then attack with blisteling laps!!!!Just see kimi.1 race before he destroyed his tyres because things was not good for him(track-temperatures-set up)and today in a track that was worse on tyres he was majestic!!!!!!So it's not the tyres,it's everything else!!!!!!!!
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFerrari View Post
    We need pitstops to make the race interesting (and to have a possibility for a McMower failure in the pits)

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    The good thing about the pirelli tyres it's making the racing so exciting.

  19. #19
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    Yea, but thats the point..is it real racing, or simply tire mgt?
    What was wrong with racing b4? The tire tricks havent filled any stands that Im aware of.

  20. #20
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    Pirelli responds to Michael Schumacher's criticism of its tyres

    Pirelli says it is surprised at accusations from Michael Schumacher that the current generation of tyres are not allowing drivers to push their cars to the limit.

    On the back of a frustrating afternoon in Bahrain, where Schumacher could not make the progress through the field that he had hoped for, the seven-time champion hit out at the way drivers are being forced to look after their tyres.

    "The main thing I feel unhappy about is that everyone has to drive well below a driver's, and in particular, the car limits to maintain the tyres," he told BBC Radio 5.

    "I just question whether the tyres should play such a big importance, or whether they should last a bit longer - and that you can drive at normal racing car speed and not cruise around like we have a safety car."

    Pirelli's director of motorsport Paul Hembery said he was taken aback by those criticisms, especially because Schumacher had been so happy with the tyres throughout winter testing.

    "I'm disappointed to hear those comments from someone of Michael's experience," he told AUTOSPORT. "Others were getting on with the job and getting their tyres to work. His comments during winter testing were that he was very happy with the tyres, and now he seems to have changed his tune."

    Schumacher added in his post-race summary that he thinks Pirelli should reconsider its approach to tyres – because the problems of not being able to push to the limit were being experienced by too many people.

    "I'm not happy about the situation, lets see what happens in future," explained the Mercedes driver. "If it would be a one-off car issue, then you could say it's up on us to deal with it.

    "But basically it is everybody with maybe one or two exceptions. And if it is 80 per cent of the field that has this problem, then maybe the tyre supplier should think about that."

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99103

  21. #21
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    No, the rules are killing the racing, not the tyres per se.

    They wanted to spice things up by giving them tyres which degrade quicker, but drivers soon learned how to workaround the degredation issue by being "gentle" with their tyres.

    Why don't they, for example, increase the tyre allocation and mandate a minimum amount of pitstops that each driver must do? Or reintroduce refuelling for example.

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    Once again, I will preface my comments with the reminder that I have not been following F1 for long and that I am still learning!!

    Having said that, I find it fascinating to listen to all the acronyms (DRS, KERS, etc) that litter the broadcast/commentary/drivers' quotes! It's especially disconcerting to hear "so and so is a sitting duck, in spite of his KERS, because so and so is within the one second window to use DRS"! Is it safe to say that, without the mechanical aids, drivers do not have the ability to pass, without the boost?

    As for the tires, we have a third party that dictates which two tire compounds will be used at any given race and how many sets each driver will be allotted. Although I do understand the wanton waste that could be a result if each team brought however many tires they wanted, this regulation surely smacks of artifice in a sport that should be fought on the track between each man and his machine!

    So, I have to agree with Schumi!!

    Just my two cents!!

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    If MS were leading the championship I doubt he'd complain about tyres.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sagi58 View Post
    Once again, I will preface my comments with the reminder that I have not been following F1 for long and that I am still learning!!

    Having said that, I find it fascinating to listen to all the acronyms (DRS, KERS, etc) that litter the broadcast/commentary/drivers' quotes! It's especially disconcerting to hear "so and so is a sitting duck, in spite of his KERS, because so and so is within the one second window to use DRS"! Is it safe to say that, without the mechanical aids, drivers do not have the ability to pass, without the boost?

    As for the tires, we have a third party that dictates which two tire compounds will be used at any given race and how many sets each driver will be allotted. Although I do understand the wanton waste that could be a result if each team brought however many tires they wanted, this regulation surely smacks of artifice in a sport that should be fought on the track between each man and his machine!

    So, I have to agree with Schumi!!

    Just my two cents!!

    Yes it is safe to say drivers will find it next to impossible to pass without DRS & KERS. in the past you may catch another driver at a huge rate and once you were a second behind him you were in his dirty air or disrupted air from the car ahead, this lead to lack of downforce on the following car and poor handling resulted from that. racing today is a little false with these aids, one person can use them the other cannot etc.

    Schumi is right the race should not be all about preserving tyres, imagine Djokovic has only one racket for the final and he can't hit the ball really hard at the start of the match because he must it last for all 5 sets. People would say what rubbish.

    this is the pinnacle of motorsport tyres should fall off the cliff after 10-15 laps blistering laps and then replace them for more pirellis.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    I don't think he is alone in having the problem

    I don't recall tyres in the past just falling away so dramatically.
    Not in the recent past - but it has happened, off the top of my head Monaco 05 and Hungary 97.

    edit: can't forget Canada 10 either. That was part of the reason why the FIA asked for more degradation from Pirelli.

  26. #26
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    The Pirelli degradation during the last races has been reaching a very high level [I think too high] but that is only half the problem!!!
    More of a problem for all the teams is finding the right set up to make the tyre work quickly and be constant for a number of laps.
    They have untill Saturday's Pole to do that.
    If the weather changes for Sunday's race most of that set up work is lost.
    A car that can't get enough heat into the tyres on a cloudy Saturday may be unbeatable on a hot sunny Sunday!!!
    Button comes to mind as one of the drivers being affected most.
    As the cars are following each other during a race car A may have it's tyres @ 70deg C while car B's tyres are @ 95deg C
    Most of the time car B is faster while car A may start graining the tyres.
    Vettel and Raikonen seemed closest to that operating window today.
    A dry-weather racing tyre in Formula One generally operates at an optimal temperature of around 100deg C.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger View Post
    Not in the recent past - but it has happened, off the top of my head Monaco 05 and Hungary 97.

    edit: can't forget Canada 10 either. That was part of the reason why the FIA asked for more degradation from Pirelli.
    Yeah but they were pretty unique and not intentional, these days they want the tyres to fall apart, the way they suddenly go from raceable to un-driveable is probably the main issue.

    Forza Ferrari

  28. #28
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    The Pirelli tires are the same for everyone and the racing has been fantastic since Pirelli has been the tire supplier! Pirelli have done a marvelous job to ENGINEER very evenly consistant tires and the Management of the tires by the drives is another way to put the DRIVER in charge again by using his own strategy in the race. Schumacher's comments and what he wants only help the Fastest Car in the field and we would go back to the race procession like we had with the Bridgestone tire era! No Thank You! Four winners in Four races, What more can we ask for! The Championship is much more even by taking away the "Unfair" Advantage of the EBD / Blown Diffuser, Etc. and Tire Management by the Driver and the Team add a huge aspect to Formula One now just as it was in the days of multiple suppliers! Schumacher is looking for Mercedes to capitalize even more with the DDRS and tire management limits their "Un-Fair" advantage. Let him learn to race cleanly, drive better and if he doesn't watch Rosberg "Out Drive Him"!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    The Pirelli tires are the same for everyone and the racing has been fantastic since Pirelli has been the tire supplier! Pirelli have done a marvelous job to ENGINEER very evenly consistant tires and the Management of the tires by the drives is another way to put the DRIVER in charge again by using his own strategy in the race. Schumacher's comments and what he wants only help the Fastest Car in the field and we would go back to the race procession like we had with the Bridgestone tire era! No Thank You! Four winners in Four races, What more can we ask for! The Championship is much more even by taking away the "Unfair" Advantage of the EBD / Blown Diffuser, Etc. and Tire Management by the Driver and the Team add a huge aspect to Formula One now just as it was in the days of multiple suppliers! Schumacher is looking for Mercedes to capitalize even more with the DDRS and tire management limits their "Un-Fair" advantage. Let him learn to race cleanly, drive better and if he doesn't watch Rosberg "Out Drive Him"!

    Ciao.

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    well said!

  30. #30
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    Last year we started the year with 4 or 5 stops a race then less and less until we had 1 and 2 stops at the end. This year we have started with 2 or 3 stops so by the end of the year we could be back to 1 stop races. Bit different this year as do not wear as much as drop out a small operating window but we need drastic changes every year or teams will easily get on top of them. This means all races at the start of a year will be a bit crazy before settling down. Better than the processions we had for 20 years though.

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