Felipe Massa sucks, says Suzie

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Massa still needs to go,and go now. Massa reminds me of workers who just show up for the pay check and does the bare minum for it.

Oh please, he's just had a good race, if anything you should spur him on until his contract comes to an end. Give him a chance, he will not be removed before the end of the season, live with it.

[Tifosi]

Massa still needs to go,and go now. Massa reminds me of workers who just show up for the pay check and does the bare minum for it.

You really don't know much about Massa do you dude?

Every time you post about this you fail to explain how this would help Ferrari in 2012 or beyond. I'd say that really should be central to making your post - given that you seem to be in a very small minority of people who think he should "go now".

[Ste]

I think the extreme high downforce used at Monaco probably helped a bit as it'll have improved the traction of the car as well as general balance and drivability.

Taking nothing away from his performance though, it was nice to finally see him up near the front.

[Greig]

Massa still needs to go,and go now. Massa reminds me of workers who just show up for the pay check and does the bare minum for it.

Bet you go before him if this is the level of posts you bring to a Ferrari forum

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Bet you go before him if this is the level of posts you bring to a Ferrari forum

Now I'm not really your biggest fan, but that was funny.

[Alonsofan2002]

You really don't know much about Massa do you dude?

Every time you post about this you fail to explain how this would help Ferrari in 2012 or beyond. I'd say that really should be central to making your post - given that you seem to be in a very small minority of people who think he should "go now".

well tell me all about him then,hes not even a good number two driver.
this is a JOB bottom line.

[Suzie]

Yes you want Felipe to do better, as we all do... but just not better enough to beat Fernando, I presume?

If he'd outqualified Fernando in Monaco, would you have been happy that our 'number 2 minimal effort' driver was performing well? Or would you then have been wanting him to concede position to Alonso?


Ugh, why am I even bothering.



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[Crucial_Xtreme]

Hats off to Massa, has improved considerably and i hope this rich vein of form continues into Europe. Hopefully he can also push Alonso to give that extra little bit more, competition is good after all

Agreed 110% mate!! I said after Felipe's interview Ferrari published I thought he had turned a corner and would start to come back. Indeed he has. As many have said it takes more than one GP but he deserves plenty of credit for his performance this weekend and nobody can take that away from him. I personally think it's one good performance of many to come throughout the rest of the season. And it will be dang good to see him back like many here have wanted. Now let's hope the updates for Canada work as intended and we have a even more competitive car.

[mark p]

Massa showed real guts. I believe he will get better and better. 3rd time this year within 7 seconds of Alonso but this time Alonso was near the top so good points. Massa will be on the podium soon and if the car keeps improving a win will be possible.

[Tifosi]

well tell me all about him then,hes not even a good number two driver.
this is a JOB bottom line.

Make more sense for you to find out for yourself before posting generic simplistic sweeping statements about the Ferrari driver that's not your favourite and that you refuse to back up with any reasoned argument

[Dino]

Bet you go before him if this is the level of posts you bring to a Ferrari forum

You really don't know much about Massa do you dude?

Every time you post about this you fail to explain how this would help Ferrari in 2012 or beyond. I'd say that really should be central to making your post - given that you seem to be in a very small minority of people who think he should "go now".

What's wrong with you Alonsofan2002?
If you had said that after Barcellona it would not have felt so bad,Felipe was great at Monaco keeping up with the best cars and at times showing he could have a go at Lewis if Fernando would let him through!!!!!
By the way who do you suggest take his place?

[Alonsofan2002]

Perez,would be my choice. Look at the number two drivers on all teams,most not all drivers stay with in a couple points of thier number one driver.

I dont dislike or hate massa,dude is cool with me.just not doing a good job imo.

[sagi58]

yeah with Monaco being the ultimate driver test it would be unwise to suggest anything from it Maybe if he performs in Canada we will then wait till Silverstone etc etc.

Leaving aside what I sense is sarcasm, for a moment, and at the risk of sounding facetious, how is Monaco the "ultimate driver test"?
I mean, there is very little room to pass, though not impossible; yet, a driver's best friends are the pit crew changing his tires.
And, there were suggestions that rain would be welcome, so the pecking order wouldn't change or, in our case, might improve.
Again, my intention is not to be facetious; but, to learn!

Thanks in advance to anyone who might shed light on this particular comment/opinion, as it seems to be a general one!

[Nova]

Guy does good and the chickens still crow.
Massa wont beat Alonso because he's not allowed to.
I'll bet in even cars he would do well against ole Fernando.
After all, he was beating him in Germany until Ferrari made him let FA thru.

[sagi58]

FIRST of all, I am VERY happy that Massa did so well, in Monaco!!
__________________________________________________ ____________________________

Just trying to figure something out, so bear with me, while I "think" out loud, ok? Ta!!


So, we're to believe that Massa is in an inferior car compared to the one Alonso drives?
And, we're to believe that Massa would be just as fast as Alonso, if not faster, if they
had the same equipment? We're to base that belief on the "evidence" of one very thinly
veiled team order given in Germany two years ago?

Am I missing something? I mean, if that's the case, then what the hell does Ferrari need
to pay so much money to a double WDC, just because he has been hailed as the best driver
on the current grid? We should have saved ourselves the money and just kept Kimi, eh?

(( NOT intended to offend!!))

[FerrariF60]

Guy does good and the chickens still crow.
Massa wont beat Alonso because he's not allowed to.
I'll bet in even cars he would do well against ole Fernando.
After all, he was beating him in Germany until Ferrari made him let FA thru.

that's the funniest thing i've ever heard; we're talking about the same Fernando here right?? teh one that drives for Ferrari.
if so, there is NO WAY in hell that Massa would outperform Fernando in an equal car; and by they way, do you know for a fact?? have you seen it written in Massa's contract that he's not allowed to beat Fernando??

common mate, give your head a shake...we all know Fernando is the most complete driver and king of the grid as he's in his prime years right now; and it's NOT by luck that he leads the WDC, it's SKILL my friend...that only comes wiht experience.

[Poltergeistes]

But doesn't mean that Fernando would beat Felipe everytime, he would probably win the championship. but not every single race.

What i understood from an earlier comment, in which i happen to aree is that, Ferrari does give Felipe the same as they give Fernando, but it would seem unwise and naive to think that, the entire project of the car isn't made to Fernando's specifications rather than Felipe. it would only make sense.

I think that's fair, and I think that is why Felipe has to spend so much extra time back at factory working with his engineers, his job is a little more than simply driving as best as he can, against all the critics and rumours and fears. the mean job i think he does there is to find a way to make this car that is projected for Fernando primarily also work as well for felipe.

And that may includes Felipe having to change a little the way he drives, i know he favors a little from fernandos too, but we all know in F1 it trully is rocket science, so the hours in the simulator, the hours trying to find out how they are going to change the numbers, where it needs to change.

My main point is, we can't say he isn't trying, after every race he is working hard at the factory, he, and his engineers are doing everything they can, with the situation and equipments they have in hand. so to say that he is only there to collect the pay is nonsense. he is working hard as he always has.

Can you imagine coming back from a head injury like that, after the crashgate, the pressure of being teammates with fernando (who is the double champion at his prime) in the beginning felipe did well and could keep up, but the pressure started to break in, as alonso got a little more pushy from china onwards. now having to deal with all the trash from media and fans, because he can't keep up with the same pace as Fernando, let's not be idiots, Ferrari certainly isn't, of course they are going to build a car with Fernando in mind, and Felipe has to adapt to that as well.

I don't see the reason to bash the guy so much, and want him out, nobody else would do what he is doing right now better than him.

[vecchiasignora]

what I dislike mainly on alonso, is the fake ferrari fans around the board!
As for massa, think he staying for long..as he is the perfect teammate to alonso.never challenge him

[Greig]

Leaving aside what I sense is sarcasm, for a moment, and at the risk of sounding facetious, how is Monaco the "ultimate driver test"?

How is it not? any mistake is punished greatly.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Guy does good and the chickens still crow.
Massa wont beat Alonso because he's not allowed to.
I'll bet in even cars he would do well against ole Fernando.
After all, he was beating him in Germany until Ferrari made him let FA thru.

Thank you for the laugh, you truly make some of the other comedians here look average.

[Hornet]

FIRST of all, I am VERY happy that Massa did so well, in Monaco!!
__________________________________________________ ____________________________

Just trying to figure something out, so bear with me, while I "think" out loud, ok? Ta!!


So, we're to believe that Massa is in an inferior car compared to the one Alonso drives?
And, we're to believe that Massa would be just as fast as Alonso, if not faster, if they
had the same equipment? We're to base that belief on the "evidence" of one very thinly
veiled team order given in Germany two years ago?

Am I missing something? I mean, if that's the case, then what the hell does Ferrari need
to pay so much money to a double WDC, just because he has been hailed as the best driver
on the current grid? We should have saved ourselves the money and just kept Kimi, eh?

(( NOT intended to offend!!))

Both drivers get the same equipment. It doesn't take rocket science to produce more than 1 F1 car.

Massa probably finds it somewhat more challenging to to adept to a new car that's is struggling, which was how the F2012 started out. And I think in Monaco, he has shown that he's finally getting in tune with the F2012 and he's able to push it as the F2012 starts to improve.

Alonso is just one of those rare drivers that's just able to take a car to its limits more than other drivers no matter how difficult the car is. Its not to say that Massa is crap. Massa is one of the good drivers which is why he landed a seat in Ferrari. Its just that not everyone can be a Schumi or Alonso. That's the reason why Ferrari made Alonso the leading driver in the team.

But to say that Massa is not able to beat Alonso just because he's getting an inferior car is just ignorant.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Not to mention they also rolled out a new chassis for him!

[Suzie]

We should have saved ourselves the money and just kept Kimi, eh?

Aaaand there it is.



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[sv_godspeed]

i thought Felipe did quite well in Barcelona too, in fact. he just got whacked by the penalty and wasnt in a position to minimize the damage (as it came just before his pit stop was due)

at monaco, it was a glimpse of the old Felipe once again. in the first stint, he looked much faster and more comfortable than Fernando but was compromised just a little bit by Alonso's (playing the long game so he could jump Lewis at the pitstop) and in the end those few seconds made all the difference considering he finished 6 secs behind the winner and 5 behind Alonso...

job well done by SF at Monaco, tho' and its great to have Felipe doing what we all (barring a few "unusual fans") know he can do...

[Nova]

Thank you for the laugh, you truly make some of the other comedians here look average.

No, Im no comedian..although I do have to laugh at the persistence of
those who constantly want Felipes head. Some are so blinded by their loyalty to
a certain driver that they fail to see what the team is trying to achieve.
Theres the word..."team"...Ferrari is a team...If Fernando has no problems with Massa, why should you?
Theres also pix in the Development thread that show that Ferrari used 2 different
turning vanes on the cars in Monaco. Im not sure why, comparing the 2 I would guess, but Felipe certainly looked faster than Fernando.

[sagi58]

How is it not? any mistake is punished greatly.

Can't that be said of most tracks? It seems to me that at every race, there are always a few places, turns, curves that the broadcasters feel the need to remind us of who had a bad accident, how bad it was, and when.

[sagi58]

...Alonso is just one of those rare drivers that's just able to take a car to its limits more than other drivers no matter how difficult the car is. Its not to say that Massa is crap. Massa is one of the good drivers which is why he landed a seat in Ferrari. Its just that not everyone can be a Schumi or Alonso. That's the reason why Ferrari made Alonso the leading driver in the team.

But to say that Massa is not able to beat Alonso just because he's getting an inferior car is just ignorant.

I completely agree with you!! Just trying to summarize some of the comments being made to rationalize the difference in their performances.

What it boils down to is, as you say, that Alonso is in a league of his own. Both are driving the same car; but, Alonso can get more out of it, period!

[sagi58]

Aaaand there it is.

Taking comments out of context is beneath your position as moderator.
So, I think I'll skip responding, if you don't mind?

[Poltergeistes]

And do you really think that with the slow start and struggles with the F2012, that the ferrari engineers simply asked: "felipe what do you want us to improv in this car that best suits you?" from the first race on, do you think the scuderia went to felipe and said, ok what and where do you need it fixed felipe?

I'm just pointing out that, this question went to Fernando, and from whatever fernando's answers and picks were, they tried to make it suitable for him, and ONLY then, the order was, ok felipe with this car that is going to be designed and developed to fernandos need, we need you and rob to find a way to learn your way around these developments, so that we can have the car working as best it can in your side of the garage.

This seems so simple to me, and even reasonable, which is why i don't get why the pressure on Felipe to deliver, and most of all, actually compete with Fernando on track. we know which order works for ferrari, so why pretend that felipe is doing an awful job, because he simply can't match fernando, when he was never sent out to match fernando.

You gotta admit that this is probably harder than that spring on Felipe's head. for him to come around all these obstacles and beat his teammate, it would take a senna to do it. yes the team has got felipe's back too, the problem is that alongside the team, felipe has got fernando's back.

One thing is for sure, don't ever let felipe turn that first corner in first position, cause god knows he is the best defender on the field, and i would not like to hear another team order like in germany, if they are ever gonna do it, at least do it without taking away felipe's dignity in public.

[Greig]

Can't that be said of most tracks? It seems to me that at every race, there are always a few places, turns, curves that the broadcasters feel the need to remind us of who had a bad accident, how bad it was, and when.

Yes other tracks might have a corner or two that is punishing, Monaco has it all the way round, no escaping your errors so no it can't be said of any other track, but if you do not think Monaco is a circuit that really tests the drivers then so be it.