Felipe Massa sucks, says Suzie

[zorro666]

I have been an F1 fan for 18 years now and more or less seen it all.
The triumph, the drama, the shunts... And the team mate wars!

It's just unacceptable for a driver like Felippe to be as dreadful as that.
2 points in 5 races???? Come on mate!
I think that Fellipe is a great driver no more.
The circumstances he lost the title to Lewis combined with this nasty accident took a chunk out of this competitiveness.
Add Fernando and Pirelli to the mix and there you go.

I am not one of those Ferrari fans that will turn against anybody within the team when they are not doing well.
Getting sacked is the ultimate solution but never the less a solution.

I do believe that it will be good for Fellipes career if he moved on. I do think he needs a change to revive himself and start afresh!
Of course lets not forget that Ferrari is paying the price in the Constructors Title as Fellipes contribution to the team is zero.

I never thought I'd say so, but a couple of more performances like that and he could be out.
Ferrari said that they were disappointed with Fellipes performance this weekend... And all of a sudden they are vocal about it?
Not a coincidence my friends!

It's the Countdown To Extinction for Fellipe and I doubt he will turn things around.

Any thoughts???

[Cheeseman]

[ferrari1.8t]

x2

[REDARMYSOJA]

I have been an F1 fan for 18 years now and more or less seen it all.
The triumph, the drama, the shunts... And the team mate wars!

It's just unacceptable for a driver like Felippe to be as dreadful as that.
2 points in 5 races???? Come on mate!
I think that Fellipe is a great driver no more.
The circumstances he lost the title to Lewis combined with this nasty accident took a chunk out of this competitiveness.
Add Fernando and Pirelli to the mix and there you go.

I am not one of those Ferrari fans that will turn against anybody within the team when they are not doing well.
Getting sacked is the ultimate solution but never the less a solution.

I do believe that it will be good for Fellipes career if he moved on. I do think he needs a change to revive himself and start afresh!
Of course lets not forget that Ferrari is paying the price in the Constructors Title as Fellipes contribution to the team is zero.

I never thought I'd say so, but a couple of more performances like that and he could be out.
Ferrari said that they were disappointed with Fellipes performance this weekend... And all of a sudden they are vocal about it?
Not a coincidence my friends!

It's the Countdown To Extinction for Fellipe and I doubt he will turn things around.

Any thoughts???

We are all so glad that someone has finally come out and said this.

[Red passion]

i believe that Ferrari knows Kimi by know, still 3 years in team should give them hints what kind of person he is. they know a lot more about him than we will ever know.

He likes Magnums anyway

[sagi58]

but still you talk like Kimi was victim of bad circumstances, not even slightly considering that there was probably more than we'd ever know why he got sacked. and i'm not putting words in your mouth, read again what you said earlier.
and as for regretting - Massa had 2 not very good seasons and he still got 3rd after that, i don't think Ferrari is regretting that, because so far they haven't replaced him and you bet, that line is long who'd take his seat given the chance. let the season end and then say if Luca might regret it or not. Kimi loved WRC too in his first year and then suddenly lost all his motivation to drive...

Tsk, tsk, tsk! You did it again!!

I did NOT Kimi was a victim of "bad" circumstances, rather that he happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. NOR did I say that Ferrari/di Montezemolo was "regretting" the decision to keep Massa, rather I said they "may" have had a "rethink".

You're right, I do NOT know what goes on behind closed doors at Ferrari; but, then again, you don't either. It's obvious that we have different opinions and yours is no more valid than mine.

I think we need to file this discussion under "agree to disagree" so that we can stop boring the good folks, here!

Have a great evening!!

[Katu]

Tsk, tsk, tsk! You did it again!!

I did NOT Kimi was a victim of "bad" circumstances, rather that he happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. NOR did I say that Ferrari/di Montezemolo was "regretting" the decision to keep Massa, rather I said they "may" have had a "rethink".

You're right, I do NOT know what goes on behind closed doors at Ferrari; but, then again, you don't either. It's obvious that we have different opinions and yours is no more valid than mine.

I think we need to file this discussion under "agree to disagree" so that we can stop boring the good folks, here!

Have a great evening!!

i am not putting words in your mouth, just saying what you are saying in other words. and if you'd stop bringing Kimi up every bloody possible (and impossible) time, that discussion would not even have happend in the first place.

[F2002]

I noticed this on the French version of f1live.com this morning, here it is through Google translate:

Ferrari made comparisons

In a statement, the Scuderia Ferrari lent itself to the performance comparisons between its race drivers. A subtle way of putting pressure on Felipe Massa .

An analysis of performances over the past three seasons demonstrates "that the level of Fernando (Alonso) has always been very high, "it said. After five races, the Spaniard scored 67 points in 2010, 51 last year and 61 this season.

As for his teammate, "the decline of Felipe arises": 49 points in 2010, 24 last year and only 2 today. Ferrari's competitiveness has varied over the years, but the fact remains that every driver has the same equipment at his disposal.

The best from Monaco

Ferrari acknowledges that Massa "was unlucky in qualifying and the race ( penalty by passing the stands) "at the Spanish Grand Prix, the last weekend. But it also suggests that "everybody, and he more than anyone expects a turnaround from the Monaco Grand Prix."

The analysis, released by the team itself, will only magnify the rumor that Massa is replaced before the end of the championship. If Ferrari wants to win the constructors crown , it must have two drivers able to score points on a regular basis.

Note that the presence of Adrian Sutil in the paddock in Barcelona, ​​currently without a drive and willingness to jump into a cockpit at any time , adding to speculation. "Ferrari is my favorite team," said the former Force India driver last month.

Other rumors send Sergio Perez , Mark Webber and Paul di Resta at Ferrari next year.


Other sources:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18067284
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ma...k-of-collapse/
and of course
http://www.ferrari.com/English/Formu...formula-1.aspx

[cleanme]

http://sports.in.msn.com/formulaone/...ntid=250034990

"The Maranello based team played down the extent of the upgrade seen in Barcelona on Friday, but one media pundit surmised that "almost everything is different" compared with the car in Bahrain three weeks ago.

It might, therefore, be seen as a last roll of the dice for Ferrari, who could therefore be advised to turn attention to the 2013 project should the upgrades not work as expected.

But when that was put to Fernando Alonso in Barcelona, the Spaniard answered: "I don't think so. I don't think so."

Brazilian Massa doesn't agree.

If you have a car, you introduce a number of significant changes and you don't get the response you expected, it means that the project is not good," he is quoted by Brazil's O Estado de S.Paulo newspaper.

"You would have to leave it in order to create a new base," added Massa.

But Alonso doesn't agree with his teammate's final point, either.

When asked if the disappointing F2012 could nonetheless be used as the basis of Ferrari's 2013 project, he insisted: "I think so. Yes."

So Massa is now saying the car by Ferrari is ?? Arrogant

[zakfourie]

Jean Todt took over a disaster in 1993 that needed to be rebuilt, and brought into the technology Ferrari had fallen behind back then. And each season was an improvement from the past one, both in points, and race wins.
Stefano took over the most successful team, that just freshly won world titles, and has been on a decline since. And considering he's been with the team during Todt's years... well I don't need to say more.



It's just been exchange of diffirent perspectives, opinions, in a civil manner of freedom of speech. Isn't that the purpose of forums? So people can exchange their views, and learn or advance from them?

No where in this thread has any member tried to run the team.

I haven't learned anything in this thread.

Just constant stone throughing between wannabe Ferrari fans...

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

Massa does not do justice to Alonso's comments. Alonso is constantly asked regarding Massa and he always has good things to say about him but Massa makes him look like a clown by delivering performances which only his mother would be proud of. Almost makes Alonso's comments seem sarcastic.
But i understand why Alonso must keep on saying good things about him.

[F2008]

Massa does not do justice to Alonso's comments. Alonso is constantly asked regarding Massa and he always has good things to say about him but Massa makes him look like a clown by delivering performances which only his mother would be proud of. Almost makes Alonso's comments seem sarcastic.
But i understand why Alonso must keep on saying good things about him.

How can you believe that Barcelona was a true reflection of Massa's ability? Only a few weeks ago he was matching Alonso every step of the way in Bahrain...

[racingbradley]

How can you believe that Barcelona was a true reflection of Massa's ability? Only a few weeks ago he was matching Alonso every step of the way in Bahrain...

Agree with you.
I thought Massa drove well in Spain. What a pity he had a drive through when really he needed to come in for tyres at the time. 2 pit stops in fairly quick succession would destroy most people's race.

[Greig]

Instead of us having multiple threads sidetracked with talk about Felipe, who will replace him etc etc then can we keep all rumours and posts about his performances in this thread please.

[sav_pap]

F1 is a sport with a lot of money and politics involved.
If Massa still stays it's because Ferrari wants him to stay.
Is it because of Todt's family or money...? Who knows.
1 for sure.
I don't think that Ferrari is giving felipe a period of grace. It's just that they mustn't sack him yet because of "something".
When this "something" won't anymore exist then felipe will be sacked. Perhaps not if he come back but i doubt it.
Nevertheless as far as he is a ferrari driver he must have all of our support.

[F2008]

It's just that they mustn't sack him yet because of "something".
When this "something" won't anymore exist then felipe will be sacked.

After 7 years they won't just sack him in the middle of the season, that is quite clear to me.

[Jose-Lorca Fan]

How can you believe that Barcelona was a true reflection of Massa's ability? Only a few weeks ago he was matching Alonso every step of the way in Bahrain...

Thankfully i'm not as blinkered as you when in concerns Massa's poor performances, which in case you didn't notice have been a recurring theme for the past 2 years or so. To say that Massa deserves his seat because of a single good performance in Bahrain is ridiculous, he will need to do much more than that to be considered a viable option for Ferrari's second seat next year.

[Hornet]

There's no reason for Ferrari to sack Massa now, it won't do the team any good

If Ferrari feels they need a new driver, they will hire a new driver next year.

[F2002]

Thankfully i'm not as blinkered as you when in concerns Massa's poor performances, which in case you didn't notice have been a recurring theme for the past 2 years or so. To say that Massa deserves his seat because of a single good performance in Bahrain is ridiculous, he will need to do much more than that to be considered a viable option for Ferrari's second seat next year.

Agreed.

Some of us have forgotten how to read a standings chart:
http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/s...late=standings

Anyway, now Ferrari has spoken too, hopefully that will align everybody's thoughts about the situation with Massa.

[F2002]

There's no reason for Ferrari to sack Massa now, it won't do the team any good

If Ferrari feels they need a new driver, they will hire a new driver next year.

You have a point, but the opportunity cost is 2 points @Hornet

[Nova]

What, the F2012 is a killer now? I dont think so. I'll reserve my judgement. 1 decent race doesnt mean
the car is magically transformed. Sure, its a bit better, but transformed? No. Whether I like Alonso or not,
he is 1 of the best out there, and can run at or near the front in just about anything. FM did not have a good race,
Vettel had basically the same number of stops including the drive thru, yet did much better than FM.
Anyone in a team with FA, is going to have a hard go of it. Unless they can consistently finish within a few places of
FA, they are going to be hammered by the media and looked at as the number 2.

Now I believe that FM has to up his game, but given the rules, can he? Where will ANY other driver place in that situation?
A few years ago, all of Ferrari's drivers had a go at the car, yet none of them came close to FA..remember?

[Greig]

If we can understand why Felipe seems to just drop off in pace in the last 3rd of a race it would probably help, he is missing out on Q3 by such small margins which hampers his race so much. Being 4tenths behind Alonso in qual any other year or for most drivers would be considered a pretty decent achievement but this year those 4tenths are the difference between being 4th and being 17th. And when you start midfield you are always going to be compromised in the race.

It's easy to assume others will do better, but remember 2009 when Badoer and Fissi just pure sucked in the car, a car which Massa was doing well with prior to his accident. I think the gap to Alonso is pretty much to be expected but then again I rate Alonso as the very best on the grid and would not expect much drivers to be able to mount a real challenge on him at Ferrari.

At least for me Felipe is still trying, still giving us 100% every weekend, something we never got from Kimi when he decided to down tools for 12 months, it's up to Ferrari to decide if effort is enough, but I feel Felipe will be replaced next season regardless of how this season ends, and he can leave with his head held high and with a lot of respect for the 7 years he has given us.

[FerrariFanBoii]

If we can understand why Felipe seems to just drop off in pace in the last 3rd of a race it would probably help, he is missing out on Q3 by such small margins which hampers his race so much. Being 4tenths behind Alonso in qual any other year or for most drivers would be considered a pretty decent achievement but this year those 4tenths are the difference between being 4th and being 17th. And when you start midfield you are always going to be compromised in the race.

It's easy to assume others will do better, but remember 2009 when Badoer and Fissi just pure sucked in the car, a car which Massa was doing well with prior to his accident. I think the gap to Alonso is pretty much to be expected but then again I rate Alonso as the very best on the grid and would not expect much drivers to be able to mount a real challenge on him at Ferrari.

At least for me Felipe is still trying, still giving us 100% every weekend, something we never got from Kimi when he decided to down tools for 12 months, it's up to Ferrari to decide if effort is enough, but I feel Felipe will be replaced next season regardless of how this season ends, and he can leave with his head held high and with a lot of respect for the 7 years he has given us.

At least Kimi won us a championship...

[Greig]

Who said he never? But this thread is about Massa.

[F2002]

If we can understand why Felipe seems to just drop off in pace in the last 3rd of a race it would probably help, he is missing out on Q3 by such small margins which hampers his race so much. Being 4tenths behind Alonso in qual any other year or for most drivers would be considered a pretty decent achievement but this year those 4tenths are the difference between being 4th and being 17th. And when you start midfield you are always going to be compromised in the race.

It's easy to assume others will do better, but remember 2009 when Badoer and Fissi just pure sucked in the car, a car which Massa was doing well with prior to his accident. I think the gap to Alonso is pretty much to be expected but then again I rate Alonso as the very best on the grid and would not expect much drivers to be able to mount a real challenge on him at Ferrari.

At least for me Felipe is still trying, still giving us 100% every weekend, something we never got from Kimi when he decided to down tools for 12 months, it's up to Ferrari to decide if effort is enough, but I feel Felipe will be replaced next season regardless of how this season ends, and he can leave with his head held high and with a lot of respect for the 7 years he has given us.

I feel that the problem is not in those four-tenths Greig.

Ferrari's communication sums up the problem quite neatly actually:

"The Brazilian had picked up 49 points two years ago and 24 the following year, while so far this season he has just 2."

If the problem was in being consistently four tenths away from Alonso, it wouldn't be so extensive I feel.

Can another driver do better? Not immediately, but what they want is somebody who can revert that trend, and I'm sure that there is plenty of talent out there who would have been able to score more than 2 points so far this season.

As have Senna and Di Resta with cars which are at most at par with the F2012, and that's being conservative. These drivers too have had their share of bad qualifying positions, starting from the midfield, etc.

[SanderV]

If we can understand why Felipe seems to just drop off in pace in the last 3rd of a race it would probably help, he is missing out on Q3 by such small margins which hampers his race so much. Being 4tenths behind Alonso in qual any other year or for most drivers would be considered a pretty decent achievement but this year those 4tenths are the difference between being 4th and being 17th. And when you start midfield you are always going to be compromised in the race.

It's easy to assume others will do better, but remember 2009 when Badoer and Fissi just pure sucked in the car, a car which Massa was doing well with prior to his accident. I think the gap to Alonso is pretty much to be expected but then again I rate Alonso as the very best on the grid and would not expect much drivers to be able to mount a real challenge on him at Ferrari.

At least for me Felipe is still trying, still giving us 100% every weekend, something we never got from Kimi when he decided to down tools for 12 months, it's up to Ferrari to decide if effort is enough, but I feel Felipe will be replaced next season regardless of how this season ends, and he can leave with his head held high and with a lot of respect for the 7 years he has given us.

Agreed, but Alonso is considered to be a better racer than qualifier, while qualifying used to be one of Massa's strong points. Massa seems to struggle a lot compared to Alonso when the car is not perfect. It's painful to watch as a Ferrari fan.

[wisepie]

Felipe's quali hasn't been good enough for whatever reason, but the race performance starts off well, then once the pit-stops happen, he falls by the wayside because he's started low down and the stategy doesn't allow him to make any headway. The car isn't quick enough to maintain the advantage of brilliant starts, Felipe is still committed and he's been unlucky and probably hellishly frustrated this year, so while I accept that he isn't the driver he was in 2008, he still has potential to back Fernando up once he manages to get into Q3. I feel sorry for him and pray that he turns a corner in Monaco, but the pressure is maybe too intense. I still support him 100%.

[DIEK]

Felipe's first victory...reminds yours something?

[Alonsomaniac]

At least Kimi won us a championship...

He did. But that was then. He is a Lotus-driver now and he does well there.
Both Ferrari and Kimi have clearly moved on.
If Kimi can do that maybe his fans should give it a try too.

[Greig]

Felipe's first victory...reminds yours something?

It reminds me he was lucky Nando got ahead of MS or he would have been told to move over