Jaime Alguersuari was being thrown about on twitter as a possible replacement today...
Mrs Alonso
Jaime Alguersuari was being thrown about on twitter as a possible replacement today...
Salut Gilles
That would be worse than getting Lewis, don't think he likes Alonso very much and vice versa lol
Forza Ferrari
Mrs Alonso
Really? Didn't know that?
Salut Gilles
I'm sure he said Alonso was cold and he never spoke to him, sure the Spanish members on here said Jaimie was bitter towards Alonso. Seemed to like holding Alonso up when possible too.
Forza Ferrari
has Imbicilic Aura
So you think that - morale wise - it would help to have a noob thrashing around mid-season in a car that wont win the WCC - after dumping one of their most committed long-term drivers, because the press and a few frustrated supporters want that? No point doing that unless it brings us a WCC surely - and it clearly wont do that at this stage.Originally Posted by aroutis
Do you think Alonso is just spouting stuff he doesn't believe in when he says that he thinks that Massa is one of the best or do you think he is just fibbing to save Ferrari some face?
"Luna faccia schiaffo testa"
Full Member
Think I remember reading something along those lines in the past too. It's a shame they don't get along, Jaime's eyes are very pretty.
Full Member
One in a row if you like.. Some really seem to forget that Ferrari is midfield itself for quite a while now.
Banned
I beg to differ! In rewording what I've said, you have consistently and continuously put a different/negative spin on my comments that is NOT my intention. Just because I have no problem admitting that I was/am a Kimi fan, you seem to choose to infer that I am desperate to have Kimi back, which is not at all what I meant.
As for bringing Kimi into a discussion about Massa/Ferrari, I believe is a relevant contribution, albeit not necessarily a productive one, because you can't change the past. However, there really should be no problem, under the circumstances, with accepting that Ferrari is looking back to understand what has happened to Massa and just when/where things seemed to change. There is nothing wrong with wondering if Massa/Ferrari were too keen to get him back behind the wheel after his accident. There is nothing wrong with my wondering if they've had a rethink about letting Kimi go.
That's what you do when you have a discussion. Participants bring different ideas/views/concepts/opinions to the table. As long as comments are respectful, it is not necessary that we all be in agreement all of the time. Otherwise, there would be no point in starting a discussion. In fact, there would be no point in having a forum.
Like I said, let's agree to disagree, shall we?
p.s. Go ahead and have the last word, as I will not be responding to any further comments regarding this matter!
Salut Gilles
Not quite sure how it is relevant, Kimi is gone we had all these debates in 2007/08/09 it's time to move on. But anyway I doubt Ferrari have looked back for one second about Kimi.
Maybe they should be re-thinking why they signed Kimi and forced MS's hand into retiring, or maybe why they let Rubens leave when MS was going to leave the next year, how far back do you want to go? or is it just about Kimi?
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Banned
I'm fairly certain you are not being deliberately obtuse, so I'll answer that. Kimi is relevant to the discussion because Ferrari had a choice between him and Massa.
NEITHER Schumi NOR Barrichello were at Ferrari at the time, thus there would be no relevance in bringing their names into this particular discussion!
p.s. I wasn't a member of this forum, all those years ago!!
Salut Gilles
Thanks for pointing that out, I thought we had all those drivers in the team at the same timeI'm fairly certain you are not being deliberately obtuse, so I'll answer that. Kimi is relevant to the discussion because Ferrari had a choice between him and Massa.
NEITHER Schumi NOR Barrichello were at Ferrari at the time, thus there would be no relevance in bringing their names into this particular discussion!
p.s. I wasn't a member of this forum, all those years ago!!
Forza Ferrari
Moderatore
Typical of Kimibots. They don't want to admit their man was stinking up the joint and have held a grudge against Ferrari and Massa ever since. They also have one against Fernando, but don't have any ammo against him. He's proven the switch was worth it, in spades.
Don't play dumb with me. I'm better at it than you are.
Full Member
Even though Schumi or Kimi would be great to have back for a season or two, realistically we should be looking at a driver with a year or two under his belt (with the exception of Rosberg) so when FA retires we have a driver who can fight for the title the following year. McLaren have an amazing team with LH and JB both drivers are equal to each other and push the team forward, Lotus has a similar situation.
On the other hand, Red bull is like us, have one great driver, the other is a no. 2 if the car is brill they will perform but not they are nowhere ( no offence to Massa) but if Vettel left RB in the morning Webber is the not the man I would want to lead the team, Schumi, FA, LH , JB, SV have the extra touch of magic to build the team, push it forward, get the results from difficult days.
Has ferrari in recent times got a driver with a year or less experience or do we always look for a driver with 5-6yrs at least experience to drive for us.
Full Member
Ferrari are Ferrari and they deserve the BEST DRIVERS out there! Yes, they need to hire a driver with at least a few years of Formula One experience. No "Rookie's" please! Hire a good seasoned driver as close to Alonso's level as possible. Start bringing home points and get Ferrari back into the Constructor's Championship again. There is way too much money on the line to finish 4th or 5th in the championship.
Ciao.
Forza Ferrari!!!!
Full Member
Too bad for Felipe if he'll be replaced. I also had second thoughts on him last year, but given the performance of the car, I just don't think it's fair to judge him this way. What happened to what the team said before the start of the season? 'We must give Felipe a car that is able to challenge'. And they've only just scratched the surface on this car's development. I still believe that Massa's performance is the true indicator of where the car is going. He may just be adjusting to the upgrades the car had at Spanish GP. Remember, it was Alonso who fully tested most of the upgrades on the last day of the Mugello tests.
Short of saying i am quite sentimental with Felipe, but hey, he deserves his place with the team. If they want to replace him, do it next year. I don't know, but is there anyone else capable of even getting the car work closer to what Alonso has been doing? I don't think there is any other driver. I bet once the team sorts out the rest of the car's issues, Massa will be showing his true worth.
Moderatore
I can certainly understand the "and vice versa" part
-Lou(is)
Forza Ferrari 16/15
Totus Tuus
Moderatore
Rubens wasn't the "best driver out there", though. There were 5-6 other drivers better than him (not including Schumi)
-Lou(is)
Forza Ferrari 16/15
Totus Tuus
Full Member
at the moment, no-where
Moderatore
I disagree. I think it is 95% of what Alonso is getting out of it. Felipe (and I re-iterate that if I got to choose to be able to meet and greet only 1 of the drivers who has driven for us in the last 15 years, it would be him) is underperforming, period.
-Lou(is)
Forza Ferrari 16/15
Totus Tuus
Banned
I'm NOT holding on to a grudge just because I'm offering a different perspective from that shared by Massa fans.
I did NOT say Massa was the reason Kimi was replaced, as it was obvious Kimi wasn't performing up to expectations, either.
What I DID say is that, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, Ferrari "may" be having a "rethink" as would be the normal thing to do when a decision doesn't work out as expected. And, let's face it, this decision hasn't worked out as was anticipated by any Ferrari fan.
AGAIN, whether Kimi drives for Ferrari or not; whether Massa stays or not; whether Alonso the WDC or not,
NONE of those things impact on MY life. F1 is a pleasure to watch/follow; however, it is NOT my life.
Full Member
Guys, chill out. It is a discussion, people have their opinions, that is the point: to discuss your opinions.
Massa is seriously not performing this year. If it was just this year, I would consider it was due to the tyres etc, and give him an extra year. He has under-performed since his unfortunate crash. Furthermore, if he is struggling with the tyres only, we still need to get rid of him, because Pirelli don't look like they are going anywhere soon.
The guy is a fantastic chap, it killed me to see him lose the championship to Lewis, it really did, for his sake, he deserved to win.
As a replacement? This is so difficult atm.
Personally, I think there are 4 great drivers in f1 atm: MS, LH, FA and KR. If we could have any two of them, we would be in a seriously strong position.
I would love to see MS team up with FA. I really don't think it is out the realms of possibility either. Think of the input Ferrari would get :S
Full Member
Montezemolo would be happy, remember how he tried to push for 3-car teams two years ago to get MS back on the grid in a red car again?
Full Member
People had strong expectations after 2008. I think what happened is Raikkonen was unable to adapt to the car, in particular in qualifying (he is actually losing in qualifying this year to Grosjean, who Alonso destroyed, and who also has been out of F1 for some time before returning) which is not his strong point when he can't make the tyres work. In comparison, Massa performed same as ever, fast qualifying and strong race pace when he had a car to his liking, yet in the fastest car, and compared with Raikkonen, it seemed like he finally became a top driver, while the myth was created that Kimi was never too good (which is false, the guy is as fast as anyone can be).
This year, he is in a car 0,5 - 1 s slower than the fastest, which is also difficult to extract it's full potential from, in a tight grid where at least 5 cars are way faster or slightly faster than the Ferrari, and paired with the best driver of the grid, who is also the best at adapting to difficult to drive cars and contrary to popular belief, as fast as anyone in qualy, and even faster if possible in race pace.
In 2010 and 2011, there were times when he was 1s off in qualy, yet some people here said he was doing ok because he qualifyied high in the top10 (5th-6h or so). Now he is closer to Alonso and due to a tighter competition he is 15-17 by being 4-7tenths off Alonso's qualy times and suddenly he is no good.
Give 2012 Massa the 2012 McLaren and he will be scoring podiums and high positions, give him 2011's Red Bull and he will be 2nd in the championship if Alonso wins, 1st if he doesn't.
Full Member
There wasn't a choice. Fernando was coming from McLaren and he wanted to avoid the same problems he faced there - he didn't want to fight for the #1 spot on the team. So Kimi had to go. Fernando has always required somewhat a #1 treatment to thrive, obviously in the later years there has been valid reasons for it.
What this means for Felipe? During 2007-09, he was allowed to race freely, even during the latter half of 2008 he got the #1 treatment after the team started smoking Kimi out cause the deal with Fernando and Santander had been done. That freedom he had briefly was snatched away, and obviously there was the freak accident and the poor guy was never the same. Nowadays we only see glimpses of what he could do.
There are no reason to replace him during this season. It takes time for anyone to get used to a new car and to start racking up points, specially if that car is developed with Fernandos wishes in mind. If we want the WCC, we need a driver that has about the same driving style with Fernando, someone who is willing to bend over and be that #2 guy and constantly rack up points for the constructor. Felipe had the WDC in his grasp, most drivers never even have the chance to get that near. He also secured multiple WCC's for us, which I personally hold in great value.
So thank you Felipe, it was a pleasure!
Full Member
Gone are the days when Ferrari were free to develop the car as much as they want, with the full support of Bridgestone rallying behind the team.
Ferrari need a driver that can win without having a dominating car. There are many drivers out there that can score a podium with a dominating car.
You can't be in a Ferrari and keep waiting for Ferrari to build the fastest car. You need to be able to extract everything you can out of whatever Ferrari builds.
Vincere e Vinceremo!
I simply cannot believe they still haven't fired him it's ridiculous, this pylon gets paid 8 million a year.
Banned
there is no excuse for Massa's driving!
Ferrari Affiliate
I never said we should get a completely noob in place of Massa. On the other hand if you mean a new driver for the team, ok. Now, to answer your question, if anyone was to join the team in the middle of the season, I don't think he would expect to be getting podiums with a car he was not familiar with. On the contrary, I think he would've talked with the team and the people in charge and he'd know what he'd be stepping into.So you think that - morale wise - it would help to have a noob thrashing around mid-season in a car that wont win the WCC - after dumping one of their most committed long-term drivers, because the press and a few frustrated supporters want that? No point doing that unless it brings us a WCC surely - and it clearly wont do that at this stage.
Do you think Alonso is just spouting stuff he doesn't believe in when he says that he thinks that Massa is one of the best or do you think he is just fibbing to save Ferrari some face?
b. I think Alonso is doing the right thing, trying to give Massa some morale. If he believes what he says, well, you'd have to ask him.
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
Ferrari Affiliate
nah. I believe it's more possible to get a driver come tomorrow than Massa gets second place comes 10 next races :DAh so big if's, can we have a big if Massa wins the next 4 races, which seems about as possible as what you suggest
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
Ferrari Affiliate
I don't really agree. A midfield team with their driver on #1 on WDC is quite an achievement.
"If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve
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