Felipe Massa sucks, says Suzie

[Poltergeistes]

the problem is to some people Felipe will only be considered "good" if he outperforms Fernando. so tecnically for these people, Ferrari will never have 2 good drivers, since the F1 car usually doesn't have 2 seats in the same car, so constantly one will have to be in front of another, the one behind will fall under the class of the "not good" driver always.

It's sad for Fernando, that people really chooses to say that his teammates are crap, because they fall behind alonso, ever think it might be because of Fernando's talent? and not cause his teammates are jokes?

[Greig]

It's sad for Fernando, that people really chooses to say that his teammates are crap, because they fall behind alonso, ever think it might be because of Fernando's talent? and not cause his teammates are jokes?

Indeed, and what is more bizarre is that it is mostly Alonso fans that say stuff about Massa.

[Gerhard Berger]

Last 2 races he has been close enough to Alonso, Malaysia was a bit of a freak result and that has really skewed the points total.

I think Alonso deserves full credit for that win. He pumped in the hot laps at a crucial period in the race. Massa had every chance to get a good result there too (he was just behind Vettel at one point) but his pace was not good enough.

[Greig]

I think Alonso deserves full credit for that win. He pumped in the hot laps at a crucial period in the race. Massa had every chance to get a good result there too (he was just behind Vettel at one point) but his pace was not good enough.

It was a freak result though, never took anything away from Alonso, just was a freak result but he was there to take it.

[Stormsearcher]

Respect!!!!.. is all i have to say.

[mark p]

Massa is tbe best available in the other Ferrari. All others would be 5 to 7 seconds behind Alonso at the end of a race as Massa was last 2 races. If you put the other big boys in there you will pay millions more and risk destabalizing the team for them to still finish 5 to 7 seconds back. Same with all the crap Domenicali gets, the man who has overseen a big improvement in pit strategy and pitstops with car design and development to come. Overseeing a change in organisational behaviour for a huge team takes time. Forza all Ferrari employees.

[Omegablue]

Massa is tbe best available in the other Ferrari. All others would be 5 to 7 seconds behind Alonso at the end of a race as Massa was last 2 races. If you put the other big boys in there you will pay millions more and risk destabalizing the team for them to still finish 5 to 7 seconds back. Same with all the crap Domenicali gets, the man who has overseen a big improvement in pit strategy and pitstops with car design and development to come. Overseeing a change in organisational behaviour for a huge team takes time. Forza all Ferrari employees.

I disagree about Stefano. He undid all of Todt's work...

[Greig]

Todt took many years to get Ferrari winning and was lucky enough to get the likes of Byrne, MS, Stepney and Brawn to join us, quite a team assembled.

[Omegablue]

But he did choose the right people. And it wasn't luck. He presented a project that instantly got their instant trust to join him.

[Greig]

never said it was luck, but he was able to bring a wealth of talent to Ferrari at the time, and took a lot of years to get it all working together. I don't see how Stefano undone that work when they all left? It's not like Stefano got rid of them to replace them with his people.

[Omegablue]

You did say was lucky enough?

As in the laws of battle, the general calls the shots. You're right, Stefano never chased them, but was left a structure to build on which he's struggled since. Also as he's too overly diplomatic and kind to our opponents in his interviews, it's also a reflection of how he communicates within the team. This is Ferrari, we're not the ones that have to be humble to the other teams. This team exists because of it's aggressive hungar to win, and his words don't show that tradition. A leader without that aggressive motivation will struggle to create belief in the team.

I hope he changes in that aspect for the good of the team. Though if this year becomes another disaster, management starting from his desk needs to be assessed.

[Suzie]

We don't know how he communicates within the team, though. The outward perception we have of Stefano might be different to how he behaves internally. He was chosen for the job for a reason, and Luca di M obviously still sees something in him. If we're going to criticise Stefano for our less than perfect cars over the past few seasons, then we should also praise him for the good stuff - like our pitstops this year being the fastest. And he's running a team in an era of F1 that's different from when Todt was at Ferrari as well - lack of testing for example - so it's maybe not entirely fair to compare the two.

[Greig]

You did say was lucky enough?

As in the laws of battle, the general calls the shots. You're right, Stefano never chased them, but was left a structure to build on which he's struggled since. Also as he's too overly diplomatic and kind to our opponents in his interviews, it's also a reflection of how he communicates within the team. This is Ferrari, we're not the ones that have to be humble to the other teams. This team exists because of it's aggressive hungar to win, and his words don't show that tradition. A leader without that aggressive motivation will struggle to create belief in the team.

I hope he changes in that aspect for the good of the team. Though if this year becomes another disaster, management starting from his desk needs to be assessed.

Lucky as in having such a talent pool, I don't think there is people in F1 today that are on the same level as what Todt could hand pick from, do you?

Stefano has tried to get Newey, he said no, so not sure what else he can do really? He has brought in Alonso and as said even with Todt it took him many years to shape the team into a dominant force. Don't see how his PR talk about others is any indication of anything most teams these days are nice about the competition and respectful, and so they should be really.

Do you think Horner or Whitmarsh are not diplomatic of kind to opponents in their interviews on TV? Stefano will be under pressure but to say his tv appearances affect the team really does not seem right to me, do you think the team are sitting watching TV? The team are under pressure all the time, no matter what is said on TV.

Would Stefano slating our rivals turn our fortunes around, or slating the team publicly make them more motivated? I really do doubt it is that simple.

[Gerhard Berger]

It was a freak result though, never took anything away from Alonso, just was a freak result but he was there to take it.

It's not like everyone else dropped out of the race though - Alonso genuinely had the pace. Sure the rain helped hide the deficiencies of our car, and Alonso made full use of that while Massa could not.

[Greig]

It's not like everyone else dropped out of the race though - Alonso genuinely had the pace. Sure the rain helped hide the deficiencies of our car, and Alonso made full use of that while Massa could not.

Ok it was a genuine performance based win and our car looked like winning all weekend.

Even before the race we were predicting the win, right?

[Gerhard Berger]

Lucky as in having such a talent pool, I don't think there is people in F1 today that are on the same level as what Todt could hand pick from, do you?

Stefano has tried to get Newey, he said no, so not sure what else he can do really? He has brought in Alonso and as said even with Todt it took him many years to shape the team into a dominant force. Don't see how his PR talk about others is any indication of anything most teams these days are nice about the competition and respectful, and so they should be really.

Todt does deserve credit for attracting these people. It's not like he could just "hand pick" them as you say. Despite the prestige, a lot of people were apprehensive of joining Ferrari because of the infighting and politics that had been present in the team in previous years. You only have to look at what guys like Posthelwaite, Migeot and Barnard had to say about their time at Ferrari. Attracting Byrne out of retirement was a big coup.

Alonso has been a great signing, credit to Domenicallo for that.

There is more to the F1 engineering world than Newey! :)

Todt took years to build up a winning team because he inherited a team that was not successful and had not been successful for many years. Domenicalli inherited a team that was successful and had been successful for many years. I do agree with you though that the testing ban has hurt us, and we were certainly not prepared for it. I don't think the blame for this lays with Domenicalli, but it does seem that he has taken some time to react to this.

[Gerhard Berger]

Ok it was a genuine performance based win and our car looked like winning all weekend.

Even before the race we were predicting the win, right?

No need to be sarcastic. The win was based mainly on performance, also on strategy and the pit stops themselves. We didn't look like winning in the dry, but in the damp conditions our car was good - Alonso had said as much in Melbourne.

[Omegablue]

Lucky as in having such a talent pool, I don't think there is people in F1 today that are on the same level as what Todt could hand pick from, do you?

Stefano has tried to get Newey, he said no, so not sure what else he can do really? He has brought in Alonso and as said even with Todt it took him many years to shape the team into a dominant force. Don't see how his PR talk about others is any indication of anything most teams these days are nice about the competition and respectful, and so they should be really.

Do you think Horner or Whitmarsh are not diplomatic of kind to opponents in their interviews on TV? Stefano will be under pressure but to say his tv appearances affect the team really does not seem right to me, do you think the team are sitting watching TV? The team are under pressure all the time, no matter what is said on TV.

Would Stefano slating our rivals turn our fortunes around, or slating the team publicly make them more motivated? I really do doubt it is that simple.

I actually don't rate Newey as this all mighty designer. All his winning cars hanged off a single deviation in design, precisely at the time when all the other teams were trying "radical" stuff.
Prior to 2010, which both Ferrari and McLaren's late start to the season gifted Redbull, Newey was on a championship drought since 1999. And that, as well the year before, were handed to McLaren by Ferrari's errors and miss fortunes.
I mean, in 1998 if it wasn't for the Coultard's incident in Spa and that tyre in Suzuka, Mika, Mclaren and Newey wouldn't had won it. Nor the following year when Schumacher broke his leg.
So I'm actually thankful he's not at Ferrari and never arrives.

And nope, not saying Stefano must slate the other teams, but rather keep quiet and stopped chasing excuses when Ferrari doesn't preform.
And yes, look at what's happening in Ferrari right now. He's lost control of management. Too often Fry has opened his mouth and said conflicting statesments to Stefano. That's Stefano's responsibility to keep Fry at bay.
Also in the 2010 car was car, but instead of evolving it for 2011, Stefano selected the conservative approuch by trying to replicate Redbull. Then he decides for a "radical" shift for this year? So he keeps on shifting the base for the team to work from.
Those are his calls when the design departments present him the options.

Horner and Whitmarsh, no, they're probably worse with their anonymous interviews and forever issueing letters to the FIA like children. So I don't rate them either at this stage of their careers.

And no again, I don't know if there are any better designers and engineers out there when compared to Jean's time. That's Stefano's job to find and grow them.

And no, I meant the way Stefano is too diplomatic on TV, is most likely a reflection of how he leads the team. Which as I said, it's a war, and the leader must be strong to lead the army. Stefano comes across as too soft.
As well, I don't give him too much credit for bringing in Alonso. He's the best all round driver, and Ferrari needed a driver that has the skill to lead his crew from the cockpit, a skill only previously possossed by Schumacher and Senna.
As well Fernando didn't have many top team options, and Santandar and Ferrari instantly saw the commercial potential when combined. So really, it wasn't like Stefano discovered Alonso on his own. It was going to happen given how Kimi fell apart, and they're weren't any other drivers of Alonso's level.

With that said, I still hope Stefano changes my view about him, and brings the titles home this year.

[Greig]

Those are his calls when the design departments present him the options.

And you know this, how?

Basically you don't like Stefano and you will not give him any credit, so there is no point us debating it any further

What you see on TV is not guaranteed to be how he works away from the camera's maybe you should find out a bit more about that before jumping to conclusions on what you see for 10 minutes once a fortnight

[Greig]

No need to be sarcastic. The win was based mainly on performance, also on strategy and the pit stops themselves. We didn't look like winning in the dry, but in the damp conditions our car was good - Alonso had said as much in Melbourne.

And good luck that Sauber made a too late pitstop and Perez made a mistake, Massa IIRC also went on a different strategy to Alonso, anyway if you think Malaysia was a true reflection of our package then I am cool with that, I will consider it a freak result due to the track being just damp enough to suit our car, and when it was damp Massa was doing well too, once it dried our pace was gone, Alonso had the benefit of a nice gap which was reeled in by a Sauber... Felipe never.

Anyway if you think the points scored is a true reflection then that's also great, Alonso disagrees and I am happy with that

Stefano Domenicali: “An incredible win, absolutely unexpected, but that does not make it any less wonderful and emotional! Once again, Fernando was amazing, driving with a cool head and determination, managing to get the very best out of this car and of the very changeable weather conditions. Today’s victory does not change a jot in terms of our situation: we know that, at the moment, we do not have a car competitive enough to fight for the win under normal conditions and that we have a lot of work to do to catch up."

The point I was making was if Malaysia was dry Alonso would not have won, and the points gap would be a lot less, which IMO would be a fairer reflection. I am not taking nothing away from Alonso, he took full advantage of the lottery and drove a brilliant race.

[Gerhard Berger]

And good luck that Sauber made a too late pitstop and Perez made a mistake, Massa IIRC also went on a different strategy to Alonso, anyway if you think Malaysia was a true reflection of our package then I am cool with that, I will consider it a freak result due to the track being just damp enough to suit our car, and when it was damp Massa was doing well too, once it dried our pace was gone, Alonso had the benefit of a nice gap which was reeled in by a Sauber... Felipe never.

Anyway if you think the points scored is a true reflection then that's also great, Alonso disagrees and I am happy with that



The point I was making was if Malaysia was dry Alonso would not have won, and the points gap would be a lot less, which IMO would be a fairer reflection. I am not taking nothing away from Alonso, he took full advantage of the lottery and drove a brilliant race.

Massa was on a different strategy, because he had to pit to replace his worn out intermediates. I never said Malaysia was a true reflection of our package - quite the contrary, i actually said the damp weather hid the deficiencies of our car. Alonso pumped in the hot laps during the middle of the race. Massa was never able to do this. That's where Alonso deserves the credit.

I don;t like to use if in formula1 - there are a million different things that could have happened under different circumstances. However, let us deal with what actually happened.

[Omegablue]

And you know this, how?

That's what his job title says?

Basically you don't like Stefano and you will not give him any credit, so there is no point us debating it any further

Wow dude, chill, this isn't any personal attack. We're not 12 year olds, nor 80 year olds here that we have slam the door like that.
Never said I don't like him. Just pointed out how he comes across.

What you see on TV is not guaranteed to be how he works away from the camera's maybe you should find out a bit more about that before jumping to conclusions on what you see for 10 minutes once a fortnight

And how is that diffirent from your opinion? The same can be said about your views in regards to Kimi Raikkonen.

[mark p]

Todt had free reign to change what he needed after a bad period and took 7 years to win. Domenicali could not really change things as Ferrari were so successful so it did not become clear fundamental processes needed changing until a few years had passed. He is now moving Ferrari into a no track testing era which takes time.

[Greig]

And how is that diffirent from your opinion? The same can be said about your views in regards to Kimi Raikkonen.

And what are my views on Kimi Raikkonen from someone who joined in 2012?

I seen a lot more of Kimi than 10 minutes per race weekend as we do Stefano, and I guess Ferrari felt pretty much the same hence why he was shown the door

[Greig]

Massa was on a different strategy, because he had to pit to replace his worn out intermediates. I never said Malaysia was a true reflection of our package - quite the contrary, i actually said the damp weather hid the deficiencies of our car. Alonso pumped in the hot laps during the middle of the race. Massa was never able to do this. That's where Alonso deserves the credit.

I don;t like to use if in formula1 - there are a million different things that could have happened under different circumstances. However, let us deal with what actually happened.

Massa was also pretty quick on the wet/damp track no? sure he was up into the points from putting in good laps? and then fell back as the track dried out, as did Alonso pace wise?

Sauber did stop one lap too late, and Perez did make a mistake no if's about that. I have not taken any credit away from Alonso either, just I don't think the points so far reflect the real picture.

[Omegablue]

And what are my views on Kimi Raikkonen from someone who joined in 2012?

I seen a lot more of Kimi than 10 minutes per race weekend as we do Stefano, and I guess Ferrari felt pretty much the same hence why he was shown the door

Not to long ago, you mentioned how you didn't like him in another thread. And you've stated again with the line above.

Well for me, when both cars are on the track, that's all of Stefano as per his job decription, and it's whole lot more than 10 minutes per weekend.

[Greig]

Yeah I didn't like him and did not want him at Ferrari, don't see why that matters about you assuming you know how Stefano works away from nice talk on TV? Kimi could have won every race and I would still not have liked him.

So when the car's are on the track you are counting that as learning how Stefano works? please explain to me how you go about that?

You said previously Stefano took the option given to him to go more radical this year, do you think the engineers and design team gave him a few options and he just picked one at random? Or do you think he was given a brief from the engineers etc about what they would expect by doing design A, design B and design C? I imagine he was given a very big briefing from the design team about what they could achieve with a certain car design they would propose to him a route to take and he might well have decided on one based on the info the design team give to him. Now is it his fault the design team came up short so far? Should he trust his engineers and design team to know what they are doing?

Where do you include Luca Di in the process?

[Imperatore]

Who cares what he says, he doesn't own the team, it's up to Ferrari who will be in the car next year and with the crazy amount they paid this guy compared to his performance they should drop him immediately.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Who cares what he says, he doesn't own the team, it's up to Ferrari who will be in the car next year and with the crazy amount they paid this guy compared to his performance they should drop him immediately.

Yes, by all means, they should drop Alonso.

Brilliant.

[Rishu]

Who cares what he says, he doesn't own the team, it's up to Ferrari who will be in the car next year and with the crazy amount they paid this guy compared to his performance they should drop him immediately.

Agreed, we should fire Alonso & hire the Cucumber, he fits in well, will also bring sponsorship. Pretty decent salary-performance ratio