What can we expect in Brazil?

[Greig]

I expect we will do anything it takes to win Alonso the title, no matter how it makes us look as a sporting team.

[Red passion]

I expect we will do anything it takes to win Alonso the title, no matter how it makes us look as a sporting team.

Do you think any other team would try the same trick if they were in the same scenario last sunday. Ferrari blots its copy book now and then but that's how they do business.

[Hornet]

I expect we will do anything it takes to win Alonso the title, no matter how it makes us look as a sporting team.

Ferrari isn't doing this for Alonso, but they are doing this for the team. Alonso just happens to be the Ferrari driver in the hunt.

To be fair, as others have pointed out, its something that has always been done throughout the history of Formula 1. Drivers use to have to give up their car (and not race at all) just so the team mate could continue fighting for the championship.

We've always said its a team sport, and if it is then this is how team sport works. Just like in football, not every player gets to score the goal and take all the glory. There are players who's task is to defend, and there are those who's task is to attack. Players do get pull off the field and substituted. Heck there are players who just sit on the bench.

Ferrari did not cheat, they just made a strategical decision.

[Greig]

Do you think any other team would try the same trick if they were in the same scenario last sunday. Ferrari blots its copy book now and then but that's how they do business.

I don't really care about other teams and what they do

[Rob]

I don't really care about other teams and what they do

I dont either, but bet your bottom dollar (pound) that Torro Rosso will be out to help Red Bull, did i say help i meant block and drive just abit slower and brake earlier into corners.

[Greig]

Ferrari isn't doing this for Alonso, but they are doing this for the team. Alonso just happens to be the Ferrari driver in the hunt.

To be fair, as others have pointed out, its something that has always been done throughout the history of Formula 1. Drivers use to have to give up their car (and not race at all) just so the team mate could continue fighting for the championship.

We've always said its a team sport, and if it is then this is how team sport works. Just like in football, not every player gets to score the goal and take all the glory. There are players who's task is to defend, and there are those who's task is to attack. Players do get pull off the field and substituted. Heck there are players who just sit on the bench.

Ferrari did not cheat, they just made a strategical decision.

Indeed in the past they would take the other car, but because their car was really broke or crashed not just faking it to engineer a change of postions.

If Alonso wins the title there will be no glory given to Massa, just like there was none given to Rubens when MS was lording it up.

And I never said we cheated, we just played a very unsporting card and one that does not sit right with me as a F1 fan.

If RBR done this to win Seb the title this forum would be in uproar no doubt about it.

[Hornet]

Indeed in the past they would take the other car, but because their car was really broke or crashed not just faking it to engineer a change of postions.

If Alonso wins the title there will be no glory given to Massa, just like there was none given to Rubens when MS was lording it up.

And I never said we cheated, we just played a very unsporting card and one that does not sit right with me as a F1 fan.

If RBR done this to win Seb the title this forum would be in uproar no doubt about it.

I wouldn't call it faking something because Ferrari was upfront about it, they did it openly to shift the grid position.

But you're right, the 2nd driver wouldn't get the deserved recognition in the eye of the public, hence my football analogy. When a player scores a goal, people remembers who scored the goal but not the person behind who passed the ball so he could be in the position to score. That's just how it is when it comes to team work. Not everyone will be given equal recognition, but we cannot burden our self worrying about individual recognition. The team have to achieve its success without worrying who will get what recognition.

[Suzie]

If RBR done this to win Seb the title this forum would be in uproar no doubt about it.

Yep I reckon so too.

[Hornet]

Actually come to think about it, I think Massa will gain more recognition for his sacrifices with Ferrari than Webber do at Red Bull. We all know Ferrari don't hide these things, and so when Massa have to sacrifice his position for Alonso or Kimi, the fans know what is going on, and they know the sacrifice Massa made for the team. Same goes for Rubens and any previous Ferrari drivers being in that position.

Ferrari could have pulled him into the pits and make him look bad but that's not what we do. That's what Red Bull does for Webber, just yank him into the pit and dump him into traffic. Webber ended up looking like he had a crap race, the team don't care.

But in Ferrari, we do it openly, and we publicly acknowledge the sacrifices the other drivers have to make.

This in my opinion, is why Massa is much more willing to help Alonso as he have said it himself many times, than say Webber or Button. It has nothing to do about Massa being a weak character. Massa would not have help Alonso had he not feel that the team had treated him right. Hell he would not have signed the contract.

[Tifoso]

The WDC

[stefa]

But they are realistic. There is no point in being in a lotus-eater's world...one has to face the truth,no matter how bitter it is....

Amen to that!

[Tifoso84]

And I never said we cheated, we just played a very unsporting card and one that does not sit right with me as a F1 fan.

So are you an F1 fan or a Ferrari fan? I'm confused.

You're blowing this whole thing way out of proportion.

Would you have preferred if Alonso would've started on the dirty side, lost many places at the start and gifted the WDC to finger boy?

This was the right decision and there wasn't anything "unsporting" about it! And Red Bull did do something very similar in Abu Dhabi by taking Vettel's car out of the parc ferme and tuning the car to suit perfectly for the race, thus rendering Vettel's penalty to meaningless. That was a much more unsporting thing to do and I don't see any Ferrari fans here causing a massive uproar about that.

You really need to calm down with this morale preaching. It's like Ferrari had commited some heinous crime, geez! Even most F1 experts agree that it was the right decision.

[Red passion]

Would you have preferred if Alonso would've started on the dirty side, lost many places at the start and gifted the WDC to finger boY

[Suzie]

Would you have preferred if Alonso would've started on the dirty side, lost many places at the start and gifted the WDC to finger boy?

How many places did each person who started on the dirty side lose, just out of curiosity? On average?

[Nova]

I think as I mentioned that it was a fantastic strategy.
Every other team wouldve done the same thing. Its a game. Its not a matter
of morals or scruples..really, they have nothing to do with it.
It is Formula1 strategy.
If RB or Mac did it, you may be in an uproar, but I but clams people here would be saying..
"Why dont WE think of stuff like that??? Ferrari has to be more aggressive!!! We need to SACK everyone because we dont think of those ideas"...
Funny.

[Greig]

So are you an F1 fan or a Ferrari fan? I'm confused.

You're blowing this whole thing way out of proportion.

Would you have preferred if Alonso would've started on the dirty side, lost many places at the start and gifted the WDC to finger boy?

This was the right decision and there wasn't anything "unsporting" about it! And Red Bull did do something very similar in Abu Dhabi by taking Vettel's car out of the parc ferme and tuning the car to suit perfectly for the race, thus rendering Vettel's penalty to meaningless. That was a much more unsporting thing to do and I don't see any Ferrari fans here causing a massive uproar about that.

You really need to calm down with this morale preaching. It's like Ferrari had commited some heinous crime, geez! Even most F1 experts agree that it was the right decision.

You can be both no need to confuse yourself.

I would have preferred Alonso outqualified Felipe without the team needing to play silly games with fake penalties which made them look stupid. I would prefer them to have some pride and dignity and sporting ethics. Red Bull starting Seb from the pitlane is not the same as Ferrari shuffling the grid around to suit Alonso no matter how you try to suggest it is.

I am not preaching nor do I need to calm down, if I feel Ferrari have played a stinker then I am free to say so, and your morale preaching that anything Ferrari does is good won't change that.

[Greig]

I think as I mentioned that it was a fantastic strategy.
Every other team wouldve done the same thing. Its a game. Its not a matter
of morals or scruples..really, they have nothing to do with it.
It is Formula1 strategy.
If RB or Mac did it, you may be in an uproar, but I but clams people here would be saying..
"Why dont WE think of stuff like that??? Ferrari has to be more aggressive!!! We need to SACK everyone because we dont think of those ideas"...
Funny.

No other team has done it, Red Bull could have done it to Webber just to hurt Alonso, they never.

I have never said sack anyone either. Next you will be saying crashgate was a fantastic idea too.....

[Mrs Alonso]

To be honest,the decision benefitted Felipe too since it put him on the clean side. He drove a fantastic race,maybe spurred on even more by what had happened and he finished in his maximum possible position because let's face it,he was never gonna beat Lewis or Seb on Sunday and even if he'd been 3rd he'd have given the place to Fernando anyway. I feel that as Ferrari fans,we should all respect the teams decision because what's done is done,nobody broke any rules and nobody got hurt. Being sporting doesn't always win titles. RB know this,which is why they bend the rules every whichway to suit themselves.

Anyway,back ON topic, Brazil....

I think it'll be a similar story in quali (i hate quali this year!) and then in the race,well who knows. It'll be VERY tense. Hopefully things go our way. However,i suspect there may be some Ferrari 'fans' who hope they don't,which is quite sad.

[F2008]

How many places did each person who started on the dirty side lose, just out of curiosity? On average?

First lap change of position:

[Tifoso84]

How many places did each person who started on the dirty side lose, just out of curiosity? On average?

Räikkönen for example lost 3 places at the start by starting on the dirty side. Bruno Senna lost 2 places, Ham lost 1 place. So it could've very easily have been Alonso losing 3 places at the start. Starting on the clean side gave drivers a big advantage, there's no question about it.

[Catalan]

What can we expext this Sunday ?. Let´s be realistic.

SUNNY SATURDAY
FA qualifies in third or fourth row ( that's what he said after Austin, adding that RB and McL should be in the top 4 in that case )
RAIN ON SATURDAY
FA gets pole position ( good performance from the F2012 after the Sepang, Silverstone and Germany experiences )
SUNNY SUNDAY AFTER SUNNY SATURDAY
Vettel easily finishes between the top 4 ( counting no mechanic issues )
SUNNY SUNDAY AFTER RAINY SATURDAY
FA might win if starting from pole, but Vettel will easily finish second, third or fourth. Remember that Vettel doesn´t need the win.
RAINY SUNDAY
Lottery. ( For believers, please pray )

So, I think our chances are somewhere between 25 and 35 %. You' ll never know how much I'd like to come back to this thread on Sunday after the race and say " I was wrong, Alonso and Ferrari made it ! "

[DIEK]

[Mrs Alonso]

Like your style DIEK

[grinchy]

At the end of the day Ferrari have got to do everything possible to help Fernando win.

[Massimo]

Räikkönen for example lost 3 places at the start by starting on the dirty side. Bruno Senna lost 2 places, Ham lost 1 place. So it could've very easily have been Alonso losing 3 places at the start. Starting on the clean side gave drivers a big advantage, there's no question about it.

Christian Horner said:"we never considered doing the same with Mark Webber, so Fernando would move back to the left side of the grid again, for all we know, everybody could follow our example and Fernando would end up on the first row!".

[Tifoso84]

You can be both no need to confuse yourself.

I would have preferred Alonso outqualified Felipe without the team needing to play silly games with fake penalties which made them look stupid. I would prefer them to have some pride and dignity and sporting ethics. Red Bull starting Seb from the pitlane is not the same as Ferrari shuffling the grid around to suit Alonso no matter how you try to suggest it is.

I am not preaching nor do I need to calm down, if I feel Ferrari have played a stinker then I am free to say so, and your morale preaching that anything Ferrari does is good won't change that.

If Ferrari's tactics rub you the wrong way, then perhaps you should find yourself a new team to support, one that doesn't rub you the wrong way? Just a suggestion.

What Macca and Red Bull have done over these years is much worse than what Ferrari did, and you still want to crucify the team for trying to keep the WDC dream alive?! Unbelievable!

[Greig]

If Ferrari's tactics rub you the wrong way, then perhaps you should find yourself a new team to support, one that doesn't rub you the wrong way? Just a suggestion.

What Macca and Red Bull have done over these years is much worse than what Ferrari did, and you still want to crucify the team for trying to keep the WDC dream alive?! Unbelievable!

Ok maybe I will do as you suggest, I shall consider closing the forum right away

As I already said I do not care what other teams do as it does not affect me as I do not support them.

Not sure where I have crucified the team either, but carry on

[scuderiafan]

This may be OT, but I was fine with the decision. It worked, and I think it may have helped Felipe in the end. He probably would have lost places at the start, while he gained a couple in the event. Also, there is no way that with the pace Alonso had, would he have gotten that podium without having that great start from the clean side.

Ferrari did what they had to do imo. RedBull also in Abu Dhabi. We maybe weren't happy about it. I know I wasn't. But I think it is wrong to blame the teams (us included) for doing tactics that they think will give them the win and bend the rules. If we blame anyone, then it is the FIA, whose insufficient rules allowed these loopholes to be created.

[Tifoso84]

Ok maybe I will do as you suggest, I shall consider closing the forum right away

As I already said I do not care what other teams do as it does not affect me as I do not support them.

Why would you close this forum? Just because you want to jump ship and convert to Maccaism, Red Bullism or Caterhamism doesn't mean that other people have to suffer because of your mood swings.

But seriously, would you have preferred if Ferrari didn't make this decision and let finger boy celebrate his 3rd WDC already in Austin? Some Ferrari fan you are.

[Greig]

Why would you close this forum? Just because you want to jump ship and convert to Maccaism, Red Bullism or Caterhamism doesn't mean that other people have to suffer because of your mood swings.

But seriously, would you have preferred if Ferrari didn't make this decision and let finger boy celebrate his 3rd WDC already in Austin? Some Ferrari fan you are.

You would expect me to pay for this forum when I am off following your advice and supporting another team?

You have no idea how the race would have went if we never played the stupid penalty trick, none at all. And you have no idea if it would have given Seb the title, but regardless yes I would rather win the title without dirty rotten tricks And would also rather lose it with some pride and not resort to what we did. Deal with it, what kind of Ferrari fan are you that puts the puppet driver ahead of the team, as Mr Ferrari once referred to the drivers as puppets.

So do not try and tell me I am less of a Ferrari fan than you, as you simply have no idea.