2013 Malaysian GP: Race Thread

[Forzi]

No I don't know what pace Alonso could have run at but based on passed performances probably a whole lot faster. He himself believes he would have been having it out with the bulls.

In any event, Alonso's theoretical pace is not being discussed here but rather Massa's, not even worthy of a midfield teams, pace.

As I said earlier, are you guys seriously suggesting that the Ferrari is as fast as the turd of a Mclaren in the dry?

Can't see why McLaren was a turd this weekend. Button said he could have had a podium if not for the pit stop bit.

[REDARMYSOJA]

It's quite obvious some are taking out their Alonso frustrations on Massa. Nothing new.

[Ferrari2183]

Why is the McLaren a turd? cause you say so?

You're not seriously asking me that question in a bid to make Massa look good.

It is common paddock, as well as general news that the McLaren has some serious aerodynamic issues. It looks worse than Ferrari's issues last year. That car needs to be run damn near to the ground to get decent performance out of it.

[Senna4Ever]

Four. The last four races...

and much longer a ferraristi
and raced with michael schumacher - the greatest.
and has more points now in WDC

then we should fire alonso sooner than later. seems better for the team and our goal to beat our competitors.
so we can be more focused

... just continue

[Ferrari2183]

You mentioned Felipe not being a good benchmark. I then asked you a very valid question, to which you still haven't provided a valid answer. The last two or three years have nothing to do with this year.

Four points difference or 400, he's still leading.

You clearly haven't watched the Australian GP.

[Ferrari2183]

Can't see why McLaren was a turd this weekend. Button said he could have had a podium if not for the pit stop bit.

A podium? In his dreams maybe.

[Sha1]

You clearly haven't watched the Australian GP.

Yes I clearly have.

[REDARMYSOJA]

I have already stated my disappointment at Alonso's incident and the teams failure to box him and immediately send him out on slicks but even so I can't begrudge Alonso for what happened there. He was simply faster (looked like he had more confidence early on in the wet and got caught out) but should have been more careful.

As for Massa, he had no pace for 3/4 of the race and I do begrudge that... He made no impression on the race so much so that Hulkenberg opened up a 5 second gap over him in the first stint. He was a pit stop down on the leaders in no time too. Losing in excess of a second a lap... Just an awful performance apart from the final stint. Are people really going to suggest to me that the Ferrari is as fast as the current Mclaren in the dry?

Massa is no benchmark for the pace of the car and he just cannot sustain a championship battle. The sooner Ferrari tell him that he is number 2 the better. Or he can leave. There is no shortage of promising young drivers around who would happily fulfil that role while still being able to produce better, more consistent performances than what I saw today.

So Alonso crashing out, good - Felipe finishing and earning points - bad. I get it.

Felipe had out qualified Alonso the past what? 5-6 races, finished both races and is ahead of Alonso in points, yet he still needs to be replaced. Utterly ridiculous.

[Sha1]

So Alonso crashing out, good - Felipe finishing and earning points - bad. I get it.

Felipe had out qualified Alonso the past what? 5-6 races, finished both races and is ahead of Alonso in points, yet he still needs to be replaced. Utterly ridiculous.

Apparently he doesn't hold a big enough lead. What a loser, by this stage he should be 50 points ahead of Alonso.

[Forzi]

A podium? In his dreams maybe.

He said it, as Fernando said he could have fought for the win, even not seeing how the car goes on a dry track. Can't see why it's so hard to beleave that we were slower. Kimi won the race last weekend, today he was nowhere. Melbourne is not a real circuit to see where the car stands, while this weekends race was in a place where you can really see it. The quali result was thanks to our tactics, getting the lap in late. Before us jumping in to the 2nd and 3rd, we were at the bottom half of the top ten. Really, couldn't see us fighting RedBull, who were matched in the race by Mercedes, that lost out on the last stint only.

[Sianellen]

He said it, as Fernando said he could have thought for the win, even not seeing how the car goes on a dry track. Can't see why it's so hard to beleave that we were slower. Kimi won the race last weekend, today he was nowhere. Melbourne is not a real circuit to see where the car stands, while this weekends race was in a place where you can really see it. The quali result was thanks to our tactics, getting the lap in late. Before us jumping in to the 2nd and 3rd, we were at the bottom half of the top ten. Really, couldn't see us fighting RedBull, who were matched in the race by Mercedes, that lost out on the last stint only.

Yeah, I agree.

[shamim179]

What's worrying is Mercedes have upped their game. Red Bull seem to be addressing their tyre issues. Lotus have improved their qualifying pace. What have we done? Nothing! But, it seems like we will improve considerably in China.

[Suzie]

I would suggest to you, that most Ferrari fans would be pleased if Webber had the opportunity because he would be
taking points away from Vettel who is, for all intents and purposes, Alonso's biggest obstacle to that third WDC!

I meant F1 fans in general, and my comment was not specific to TSN or this season's WDC battle.

I am glad you're "happy" for Massa

[shamim179]

Although, it is obnoxious what Vettel did to Webber and his team today there is no point in denying that he is made of championship material. His desire to win is so large that he is preprared to ignore team orders and take on huge risks. Attributes I have seen in Schumacher and Alonso.

[Ferrari2183]

He said it, as Fernando said he could have thought for the win, even not seeing how the car goes on a dry track. Can't see why it's so hard to beleave that we were slower. Kimi won the race last weekend, today he was nowhere. Melbourne is not a real circuit to see where the car stands, while this weekends race was in a place where you can really see it. The quali result was thanks to our tactics, getting the lap in late. Before us jumping in to the 2nd and 3rd, we were at the bottom half of the top ten. Really, couldn't see us fighting RedBull, who were matched in the race by Mercedes, that lost out on the last stint only.

Button is talking out of his [insert orifice here]. By lap 19 he was 10 seconds down on Rosberg and the gap grew to about 12 seconds prior to Rosberg's pit stop. I was following live timing all the time as I always do.

And if the car were that slow, where did Massa's pace come from from about lap 39 when he was lapping at the leaders pace and at times faster? He was also way faster after his stop even dipping into the 39's.

Massa's thing is there is always something. Today it was the tyres in the first stints...

[scuderiafan]

McLaren wasn't a podium car on pace, but with RBR infighting and Mercedes fuel issues and Felipe's unhappiness on the intermediates and Fernando's crash they definitely could have had a podium.
But they were faster than Lotus today with Button.

Felipe had problems on the wet track, but he was fine in the dry. the F2008 was similar. If the race was dry, Felipe could have won imo. He pitted from 5th to 8th in the last few laps, then got 5th again before the end. He was fine with degradation, ran much longer than the Mercs or the Bulls in the fully dry stint and caught up to them on older tyres before pitting though that did account for a lot of it.

Button was miles off at the beginning, but he could have caught them at the end.
This was a shame this weekend, but the car seems capable. According to Alonso who is accused of underrating the car to make himself look better, who said the win was there. I hope Toyota tunnel doesn't fail us in China. I have been looking for a car, if Toyota keep doing the good work, might get myself one!

[Senna4Ever]

What have we done? Nothing!

we are fighting here alonso vs. massa, must be enough

I absolutely salute the encouraged defending of Massa. This can only happen at Ferrari and Tifosi who take him to their hearts.

as Fernando said he could have fought for the win, even not seeing how the car goes on a dry track.

as many others here whom had been confident that we will look strong

Although, it is obnoxious what Vettel did to Webber and his team today there is no point in denying that he is made of championship material. His desire to win is so large that he is preprared to ignore team orders and take on huge risks. Attributes I have seen in Schumacher and Alonso.

Serious?
hmm which team orders has schumacher ignored? He managed Irvine to win as he was out in WDC due to his accident.

Hopefully Felipe will be still here when Vettel appears at Ferrari ... it will be interesting how people will see than the situation between the two drivers then as I will rest my love to this team until the devil left the room

[LongtimeFan]

GUTTED :(

I don't know who made the decision to stay out, Alonso or Ferrari but imo it was STUPID and VERY dangerous, I was thinking of Roland Ratzenberger.. :(

[Alonsomaniac]

Although, it is obnoxious what Vettel did to Webber and his team today there is no point in denying that he is made of championship material. His desire to win is so large that he is preprared to ignore team orders and take on huge risks. Attributes I have seen in Schumacher and Alonso.

If you think Fernando would act the same against Felipe, I think you are wrong.
Do not compare Fernando to a rat.

[REDARMYSOJA]

Apparently he doesn't hold a big enough lead. What a loser, by this stage he should be 50 points ahead of Alonso.

If Massa was a true team mate, he would have parked the car so as not to outscore Alonso.

[Forzi]

Button is talking out of his [insert orifice here]. By lap 19 he was 10 seconds down on Rosberg and the gap grew to about 12 seconds prior to Rosberg's pit stop. I was following live timing all the time as I always do.

And if the car were that slow, where did Massa's pace come from from about lap 39 when he was lapping at the leaders pace and at times faster? He was also way faster after his stop even dipping into the 39's.

Massa's thing is there is always something. Today it was the tyres in the first stints...

Who knows, that's the thing about racing. Maby as the weather went hotter, the car went better, something that's good for us since we're better with the tires. The last stints speed, the dip in to the 39s was because he got fresh mediums, didn't need to save them unlike everyone around him since he pitted later. Fernando ain't really consistent either, no one is. The track evolves, diff conditions fit diff cars. Fernando and Felipe said that they didn't deserve the quali spots, as on the dry they would have been slower, probably 3rd row. Fernando said that they weren't sure if the race pace will be good enough after the quali. The car wasn't fast enough for getting past the RBR, who were matched by Merc this weekend. Get over it mate, things might change in China.

[stefa]

GUTTED :(

I don't know who made the decision to stay out, Alonso or Ferrari but imo it was STUPID and VERY dangerous, I was thinking of Roland Ratzenberger.. :(

True... True indeed!

[stefa]

...anyway it is now, how?... 8 hours since race finished! It's over, get over it. We will never know how it would be if FA didn't broke his front wing. Would he won? Who knows. Maybe yes, maybe no. It doesn't matter any more. It is over! 21 days since next race. It is only 3rd in a calendar, but Ferrari need to put them selfs together if they want to win WDC and CWC. No more gambling (stupid) decisions. Championship is won in consistency!

[Forzi]

Got a feeling that it's gonna be loooooooooooong 3 weeks

[Greig]

And if the car were that slow, where did Massa's pace come from from about lap 39 when he was lapping at the leaders pace and at times faster? He was also way faster after his stop even dipping into the 39's.

Massa's thing is there is always something. Today it was the tyres in the first stints...

Erm maybe going faster as the fuel load goes down, which also helps put less strain on the tyres meaning you can push harder? just maybe? Also the track evolves with more rubber down, temps change etc etc many different variables.

[Bertie]

Bad day today, the wet start cost us.

Fernando always has an aggressive first lap, which is usually awesome to watch he got unlucky with the minor contact that cost so much. The team (Alonso included) made the decision to stay out, it was a big gamble but it was the only chance for a win (which is what we all want).

The rain also washed away a lot of the rubber on the track as we learned from practice the track is very different when green compared to when rubber is laid down. With that in mind I think set-up differences between cars had a big impact on how competitive they were in the first 1 ½ dry stints. So in my opinion we are still in the dark regarding race pace of any team on a traditional circuit.
Massa has done well not just today but for the last 10 races! I have criticised him in the past but he made me eat my words with his drive in Brazil – he made me so proud that day.

We are behind in both championships so we need him to be there and score big points I have no doubt he will be.
I don’t post much but read what’s said here every day in that regard I am a little disappointed by the negativity and ‘bashing’. Can we be positive? we have 2 good drivers and a good car… more than we had last year and it seems we are more disappointed (as a collective). Despite this bad result I will wear my Ferrari T-shirt tomorrow at work as I always do after a race. I know I will get a lot of grief and comments (I work with a few Hamilton supporters and vettel fans with me being the only Ferrari fan). We are the only team in F1 we win and lose together! No other constructor has that.

So too keep positive a crumb of good from the DNF is that we have saved an engine :)

[Forzi]

Easter is coming up!

[Ferrari2183]

Who knows, that's the thing about racing. Maby as the weather went hotter, the car went better, something that's good for us since we're better with the tires. The last stints speed, the dip in to the 39s was because he got fresh mediums, didn't need to save them unlike everyone around him since he pitted later. Fernando ain't really consistent either, no one is. The track evolves, diff conditions fit diff cars. Fernando and Felipe said that they didn't deserve the quali spots, as on the dry they would have been slower, probably 3rd row. Fernando said that they weren't sure if the race pace will be good enough after the quali. The car wasn't fast enough for getting past the RBR, who were matched by Merc this weekend. Get over it mate, things might change in China.

From about lap 38-39, Massa was lapping at the leaders pace and faster at times on tyres that were the exact same age as Vettel's (their 3rd stops were on the exact same lap). Massa's last stint and the back end of previous stint was very impressive and was indicative of the pace of the car. To come out and say that temps did this and that is a major let off. This has been happening with him since 2008... Alonso, since he has joined, has just made the car work. Regardless of conditions!

Towards the back end of his penultimate stint Massa made the tyres last 5 laps longer than Vettel while still maintaining good pace. I'm sorry, Massa was nowhere once again but when as you say conditions were favourable for him he miraculously picked up the pace. That, for me, is an issue.

Also, I've read stories of people claiming that Ferrari are deliberately sacrificing quali speed in favour of a race setup.

[Ferrari2183]

Erm maybe going faster as the fuel load goes down, which also helps put less strain on the tyres meaning you can push harder? just maybe? Also the track evolves with more rubber down, temps change etc etc many different variables.

And this is not an issue for other teams and drivers? The sooner people accept that Massa was mediocre today for a good deal of the race the better.

[Greig]

And this is not an issue for other teams and drivers? The sooner people accept that Massa was mediocre today for a good deal of the race the better.

Or the sooner you accept the F138 was not all that good in Malaysia the better?