Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

[Massimo]

It would be very interesting to know which four teams were the ones that sided with Ferrari in this matter? Does anyone know?

Sauber and Marussia sided with Ferrari, the other two weren't mentioned.

[stefa]

Sauber and Marussia sided with Ferrari, the other two weren't mentioned.

My first pick will be Williams and maybe Mercedes. This is their 4th season in F1 with very little success in it...

[Massimo]

My first pick will be Williams and maybe Mercedes. This is their 4th season in F1 with very little success in it...

I was thinking Force India and Mercedes.

[Aberracus]

Red bull is the most powerfull one against, they don't want to lose their edge, seconded by McLaren who don't have money to throw at it and they used to believe 100% in their simulator. If we win this year maybe Redbull will want tests and McLaren after this year deblace maybe they will want it back too.

[Massimo]

Red bull is the most powerfull one against, they don't want to lose their edge, seconded by McLaren who don't have money to throw at it and they used to believe 100% in their simulator. If we win this year maybe Redbull will want tests and McLaren after this year deblace maybe they will want it back too.

There is no Concorde agreement, so if Ferrari really wanted to play hard ball, they could do all the testing they want.

[Senna4Ever]

After the first (negative) excitement I will wait for further curses against the whining oxen until Canada.
As I couldn't change anything either ... I can only hope, that our team knows who to deal with it ...

In my opinion Red Bull were lobbying in the media and behind closed doors, with Mateschitz, who is very powerful in F1 make no mistake about that, adding even more fuel to the fire.

Mateschitz is talking what Marko tells him.
Don't get me wrong: Mateschitz is a good business man and even more a better marketing expert (as this RedBull thing is only a big marketing gag ...). But for details in business areas he has his confidential people installed in every segment. Same thing in football/soccer or others. Mateschitz strictly rely on those people and take their word as it is. What is very dangerous in terms of Dr. Marko ... as he is a good networker and has a great net of people ... If you want to have a F1 carrier as an Austrian it is said you to be very patient to Mr. Marko - otherwise the dream is over.

And as a matter of truth: the moment and the production of the claiming of Mr. Mateschitz was well planned and organized. Like a great drama ...
And compliant bought journalists are doing the rest.

[sagi58]

..."Some teams have worked in a certain way to maximise the tyre and chassis package and they don't want that to be lost by radical change," said Hembery.

"We're trying to find something that is sportingly equitable amongst the vast majority that allows us to rid ourselves of the tread (problem). We're hopeful we can do that without making such a change that would radically alter the work of any team so far."

What is so hard for Hembery to understand that, in this case, "sportingly equitable" means respecting that "some teams have worked in a certain way to maximise the tire and chassis package" rather than bowing to the pressure for those teams who chose to ignore that opportunity?

[Hermann]

I don't understand all the complains at all. Isn't Bieber leading the championship as RB demands from F1? What else do they want, a signed guarantee?

[Greig]

Only leading because of Alonso problems

[FrankAlfa]

Should Ferrari be making the same childish Rants that Red Bull is; for Ferrari is the Foundation of Formula One and who is this "Up Start" "Young Punk" Red Bull to have any kind of say in Fromula One. They need to remember Who is the MOST RENOWNED in Formula One let alone all of the History of Racing which is FERRARI! Red Bull has been ruthless and have been an outragous cheat to gain glory in Formula One. They have been permitted to get away with it because Bernie and company have sought to "Shake Things Up" either with or without the input from Ferrari! My assessment is that Bernie's folly has hurt Formula One but Bernie, in keeping with Max Mosley's desire to be the bully and put Ferrari in its place has failed. The rules of the sport shall endure and govern which has always been Ferrari's greatest strength. Ferrari has always been about Engineering and not about breaking the rules and being permitted to get away with something, just as Red Bull has done for the last 3+ years.

Red Bull must learn that they will not be allowed to be the "Spoiled Brat Child" in Formula One and will not be permitted to have their money pave their way to their future for attaining glory!

Enough is Enough!

Ciao,

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[FA fan]

Thursday 23 May at 14:35 : May 23 (GMM) Force India will oppose any move to alter Pirelli's existing 2013 tyres.

It has emerged in the Monaco paddock that, following the controversial reaction to its planned significant changes for Canada and beyond, the Italian supplier now intends only to tweak the rear tyres.

Germany's Auto Motor und Sport said the change would be only to the steel lining underneath the tread, which was overheating and causing delaminations.

Pirelli wants to revert to the kevlar lining of 2012.

"This would not change the shape of the tyre, so the teams would not have to change their aerodynamics," said Paul Hembery.

Correspondent Michael Schmidt, however, thinks the change could alter slightly the behaviour of the tyre, because temperatures would drop by up to ten degrees and reduce graining.

But motor sport director Hembery insists: "This change would not punish those who are already doing well with these tyres."

Nevertheless, Pirelli will struggle to get the change through.

"We will not agree to any change," said Force India's sporting director Otmar Szafnauer.

"Pirelli needs unanimity, and so nothing is going to change," he promised.

"We built our car based on the specifications given to us by Pirelli in September 2012.

"Changing the steel ring for kevlar changes the dynamics of the tyre, which some teams might prefer.

"We don't see why Pirelli should intervene just because a few teams are having problems. They should change their cars instead," added Szafnauer.

He also does not sympathise with Pirelli wanting to make the change to stop rear tyre deliminations.

"The tyres are safe," he said, "because when they are damaged they are still inflated. It just looks stupid, but we don't agree to the change just so Pirelli can have a better image."

[Hornet]

Correspondent Michael Schmidt, however, thinks the change could alter slightly the behaviour of the tyre, because temperatures would drop by up to ten degrees and reduce graining.

That's the problem. We might end up with temperature problem that affects our performance or degradation if Pirelli change the compound.

[stefa]

That's the problem. We might end up with temperature problem that affects our performance or degradation if Pirelli change the compound.

Hopefully we'll don't end up in those kind of problems.

[Hornet]

Hopefully we'll don't end up in those kind of problems.

My hope is Ferrari and others will not allow such changes

[FezzaCam]

That's the problem. We might end up with temperature problem that affects our performance or degradation if Pirelli change the compound.

Generating rear tyre temps is generally not a problem due to all that power going through the rear wheels. What this type of change will do is prevent overheating, i.e. temps more likely to remain within it's optimum operating window which is a good thing. It will help a team like Mercedes but doesn't help Red Bull at all because they are front limited.

[Ken]

Thursday 23 May at 14:35 : May 23 (GMM) Force India will oppose any move to alter Pirelli's existing 2013 tyres.

It has emerged in the Monaco paddock that, following the controversial reaction to its planned significant changes for Canada and beyond, the Italian supplier now intends only to tweak the rear tyres.

Germany's Auto Motor und Sport said the change would be only to the steel lining underneath the tread, which was overheating and causing delaminations.

Pirelli wants to revert to the kevlar lining of 2012.

"This would not change the shape of the tyre, so the teams would not have to change their aerodynamics," said Paul Hembery.

Correspondent Michael Schmidt, however, thinks the change could alter slightly the behaviour of the tyre, because temperatures would drop by up to ten degrees and reduce graining.

But motor sport director Hembery insists: "This change would not punish those who are already doing well with these tyres."

Nevertheless, Pirelli will struggle to get the change through.

"We will not agree to any change," said Force India's sporting director Otmar Szafnauer.

"Pirelli needs unanimity, and so nothing is going to change," he promised.

"We built our car based on the specifications given to us by Pirelli in September 2012.

"Changing the steel ring for kevlar changes the dynamics of the tyre, which some teams might prefer.

"We don't see why Pirelli should intervene just because a few teams are having problems. They should change their cars instead," added Szafnauer.

He also does not sympathise with Pirelli wanting to make the change to stop rear tyre deliminations.

"The tyres are safe," he said, "because when they are damaged they are still inflated. It just looks stupid, but we don't agree to the change just so Pirelli can have a better image."

Thanks for posting this

If Force India, Lotus and Ferrari object then the changes cannot take effect.

That would force the other teams into developing their cars as it should be to catch up.
Just as it has been over the history of F1, designers and their teams working to overcome the advantage of competitors and their own weaknesses.

And what is wrong with 3+ pit stops in a race, does that not generate some of the excitement Berni wants in F1 ??

[FezzaCam]

Thanks for posting this

If Force India, Lotus and Ferrari object then the changes cannot take effect.

That would force the other teams into developing their cars as it should be to catch up.
Just as it has been over the history of F1, designers and their teams working to overcome the advantage of competitors and their own weaknesses.

And what is wrong with 3+ pit stops in a race, does that not generate some of the excitement Berni wants in F1 ??

I think the tyre change will go through but Force India are now pushing to test it first before making judgement.

[impactX]

They cannot change the tyres mid-season without consent from ALL the teams.

[FrankAlfa]

Maybe the Tires Do Not have to be changed but rather have the teams that are having problems Change and Adjust their Race cars to suit the Tires! I can only see minor changes to keep the tires from delaninating but that is all. Nothing else!

Ciao,

Forza Ferrari!!!!

[sagi58]

...I can only see minor changes to keep the tires from delaninating but that is all. Nothing else!

I like Force India's stance on Pirelli wanting to switch back to the kevlar lining "for safety reasons":

...sporting director Otmar Szafnauer...

does not sympathise with Pirelli wanting to make the change to stop rear tyre deliminations.

"The tyres are safe," he said, "because when they are damaged they are still inflated. It just looks stupid, but we don't agree to the change just so Pirelli can have a better image."

I'd have more respect for Pirelli, if they'd been honest about the "visual" aspects of their concerns!!

[Rob]

What Does Their Rejection Mean?
Date: 25th May 2013 at 11:00 am

The FIA have rejected Pirelli’s plans to change their tyre compounds ahead of next month’s Canadian Grand Prix in Montreal.

The Italian tyre manufacturer made the announcement after a disastrous performance during the Spanish Grand Prix as the eventual race winner, Fernando Alonso, made an unprecedented four pit-stops across the duration of the 66 lap race.

Pirelli had planned to use the compounds from their old 2012 tyres in a bid to reduce the issues over tyre management.

After the pit-stop lottery which had resulted in Spain, the Italian manufacturer had pledged to revise their current range of tyres before the Canadian Grand Prix next month, amidst mounting criticism from the teams and drivers.

However, Formula One’s governing body have now quashed the proposal, suggesting that the decision to change to the old compounds would be in breach of the current technical regulations, which limit how much development can be made to the tyres during the season.

Since those plans were originally announced at the beginning of May, both Pirelli and the FIA have been looking for solutions to the ongoing argument over poor tyre performance, which has included severe graining and tyre degradation over race distances.

The decision to refuse the proposed U-turn marks an embarrassing episode, not only for the image of the tyre manufacturer but also for the sport.

The decision to reject Pirelli’s proposal has now raised serious questions over the long term future of the manufacturer as Formula One’s primary tyre supplier.

In recent years there have been suggestions that multiple tyre suppliers should be given an opportunity to compete in Formula One, with a number of leading manufacturers being linked with the sport.

The last time that two rival manufacturers competed against each other in Formula One was during the 2006 season, when Bridgestone and Michelin supplied their own compounds to selected teams.

Michelin eventually withdrew from the sport at the end of the 2006 season, leaving Bridgestone as the sole supplier to Formula One for the next four years.

After taking over from the Japanese tyre supplier in 2011, Pirelli’s long term future in the sport has now been undermined, with many of the front running teams pressuring the tyre supplier to make changes to the fragile compounds.

While the proposal to revert to the tyres of 2012 has been rejected, the FIA have negotiated with Pirelli to make improvements to the current range of compounds to reduce the demands on tyre management.

The biggest change must be made on the construction of the tyre which has been prone to separating from the bonding of the wheel, particularly when damaged or punctured.

Alarmingly, the separation of the tyre tread has also occurred when tyres have overheated, a common problem which has led to examples of the tyre failing and separating from the wheel rim.

After making significant changes to the dynamics of the tyres before the start of the season, Pirelli must now find a way of strengthening the tyres to increase their efficiency and their durability during races.

When the Italian manufacturer began supplying tyres to Formula One in 2011 their task was simple, make the racing more unpredictable and increase the likelihood of a two or three stop race.

The 2013 tyre compounds have not only made the races more unpredictable, they have also helped to divide opinions within the sport.

After being rejected by the FIA, Pirelli must now look at an alternative solution for their current range of tyres, despite facing mounting criticism from opponents within the sport.

The biggest challenge for the company will be making the tyres stronger, without further compromising overall performance, a challenge which looks set to divide opinions even further within the sport.

[Nero Horse]

After taking over from the American tyre supplier in 2011, Pirelli’s long term future in the sport has now been undermined...

"American tyre supplier"??? What a...? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bridgestone a Japanese tyre supplier?

But yea I like this decision. Although I still hope that Pirelli will make some changes to the tyres to stop them from falling apart at least.

[shamim179]

I thought they are Japanese too?

[Rob]

"American tyre supplier"??? What a...? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bridgestone a Japanese tyre supplier?

But yea I like this decision. Although I still hope that Pirelli will make some changes to the tyres to stop them from falling apart at least.

Just edited that. Very odd.

[Hornet]

Lol, what a bias writer. If the compound was changed, that would badly reflect on the sports. It's only fair to keep the same compound the season started with. It's too bad some teams got it wrong, we can't go resetting the sport each time a top team is not doing well.

Pirelli needs to stop trying to change the compound because of the pit stop. Someone should smack Paul's head if he mention too many pit stop again

[Ferris]

Not sure if anyone here has heard yet but info has come out that Merc and Pirelli conducted a 3 day tyre test at Barcelona after the last Barcelona GP... I can't begin to explain how frustrated i am with this whole tyre saga. If it was Ferrari conducting the test you could imagine the headlines!

I'm now sick of it. The tyres should remain as they are, as was agreed by the teams and the regs dictate. Period!

This is becoming an absolute f*cking farce!

[Greig]

Mercedes is at the centre of a growing controversy ahead of the Monaco Grand Prix after it emerged the team had conducted a 'secret' 1000 kilometre tyre test at Barcelona after the last race. The Brackley-based outfit has struggled to work out why its race form is no match for its qualifying efforts this season, having now secured four consecutive pole positions but struggled in the races.

AUTOSPORT can reveal that rival outfits have been left deeply unhappy that Mercedes was given a golden chance to boost its understanding of the issue with a private test at Barcelona last week. Although in-season testing is banned, it is understood that Mercedes was requested by Pirelli to help work through the issues that the Italian tyre manufacturer has experienced in the last few races. According to sources at Mercedes, the test was allowed because Pirelli can call upon one outfit for a private test to help it with products if circumstances dictate. Mercedes is adamant that its running at Barcelona was totally within the regulations, but high-level sources have revealed that other teams are not convinced and the matter has now been taken up with the FIA.

Team principal Ross Brawn said that his outfit had worked tirelessly on the tyre issue since Barcelona - but did not make reference to the test when asked about what the team had done since the Spanish GP. "I think when we got back from Barcelona we had some pretty long and deep meetings and decided a course of action," he explained.

"There were a lot of things going on already, so I don't want to create the impression that we got back and all of a sudden we started work. There was a lot of work going on already. "I think some of the work was refocused in areas that we thought were maybe more relevant and in the last couple of weeks, Bob [Bell] has been directing all the engineering team to make sure that they focus on the areas that we felt were most important. "We have come here with changes, and it is almost impossible at Monaco to judge those changes but we believe that they are relevant and give another snap shot of that at Montreal. "But it won't be until we get to Silverstone that I think we can judge where we stand and there are more changes that we are trying – and trying to establish those changes in the best possible way with the limitations of going to races."

[Ferris]

Brawn does not mention once in that interview that they did the test with Pirelli... if it was within the rules and not a big deal then why omit that bit of information?

[Rob]

Brawn does not mention once in that interview that they did the test with Pirelli... if it was within the rules and not a big deal then why omit that bit of information?

Because its 1 team getting an unfair advantage with the tyres.

[Ferris]

Just like there was debate amongst the teams as to which chassis should be used to test new Pirelli rubber before they entered the sport there should have been debate amongst the teams for this test. There wasn't and it appears they were all taken by surprise by this test with Merc so that in itself presents questions.

Lotus used an old chassis also, i don't think Merc would have used anything but their 2013 chassis.