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Thread: Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberracus View Post
    And I think that confidence is naive.... Pirelli don't want to favor any team, but how can they be sure? They don't. Have a car to test the tires... They don't know exactly if what they are going to do will be good for RB and bad for Lotus and us.

    Guys we have tires now and they are part of this championship, not protesting a change is suicidical and we are risking to throw 2013 out of the window.
    I don't think it necessarily mean Ferrari is confident. No one can tell what will happen for sure, especially without even knowing what the new compound will be.

    In recent years, Ferrari seem to take the approach of staying out of controversies whenever they can. A perfect example would be the blown diffuser controversial. Ferrari stayed out of it and they just go along with the FIA's proposal to delay the engine mapping changes rather than making a whole lot of noise like Red Bull did.

    Of course if Pirelli were to take a vote, we don't know what Ferrari will do here. They just don't say much to the public.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGar32 View Post
    Aren't we being a little hypocritical here? We seem to be slating Red Bull for their antics with Pirelli. Have we forgotten about the special relationship we had with Bridgestone? Wouldn't we be looking to do the same if the boot was on the other foot?
    You can't seriously compare the two eras? Back then all top teams had some sort of "special relationship" with their own tyre supplier. Mclaren, Williams and Renault all had special relationships with Michelin and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, simple as that. And no, we're not being hypocritical because Ferrari isn't looking to do the same thing, as indicated by Ferrari's silence at the moment. Ferrari just gets on with the job and won't let this farce deter them.
    Last edited by Nero Horse; 16th May 2013 at 14:16.
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  3. #153
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    Hell, just let Pirelli fix the tires a bit and keep them from "Shredding" so much. It will be to the benefit to ALL the teams, including Ferrari. Pirelli are NOT going to make a Huge Change, just a tweak to the tires to make them last a bit longer and not grain as much. No Big Deal!!!!

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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    Hell, just let Pirelli fix the tires a bit and keep them from "Shredding" so much. It will be to the benefit to ALL the teams, including Ferrari. Pirelli are NOT going to make a Huge Change, just a tweak to the tires to make them last a bit longer and not grain as much. No Big Deal!!!!

    Ciao,

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    I disagree. The mercs and red bulls take more life out of the tyres, hence the qualifying advantage they have over us. If the tyres can stay in better condition for longer that will only suit merc and redbull. Ferrari and lotus have designed cars to be light on their tyres and they are being penalised because others have not done the same

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    Hell, just let Pirelli fix the tires a bit and keep them from "Shredding" so much. It will be to the benefit to ALL the teams, including Ferrari. Pirelli are NOT going to make a Huge Change, just a tweak to the tires to make them last a bit longer and not grain as much. No Big Deal!!!!

    Ciao,

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    I don't know if it is a big deal or not, but occasions that punctures have happened are really a warning. Imagine Alonso's puncture in Spain was a serious one and the spain championship points were gone with just a puncture.
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  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    Hell, just let Pirelli fix the tires a bit and keep them from "Shredding" so much. It will be to the benefit to ALL the teams, including Ferrari. Pirelli are NOT going to make a Huge Change, just a tweak to the tires to make them last a bit longer and not grain as much. No Big Deal!!!!

    Ciao,

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    That's to do with the construction of the tires.

    The problem is Pirelli have touch on the compound too. All the talk about 4 pit stop is about the compound. In fact, after the race, no one talked about delamination. Everyone was complaining about the pit stop, so that's where Pirelli is getting pressure from.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    Hell, just let Pirelli fix the tires a bit and keep them from "Shredding" so much. It will be to the benefit to ALL the teams, including Ferrari. Pirelli are NOT going to make a Huge Change, just a tweak to the tires to make them last a bit longer and not grain as much. No Big Deal!!!!

    Ciao,

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    I agree with FrankAlfa. Surely if they make the tyre last longer and prevent the de lamination which will inturn allow teams like red bull to push more during the race surely this will apply to ferrari been able to push more also.. Can't see how this will benefit any one team more so than the rest.
    "That has made me fall in love with Ferrari even more today than ever." Fernando Alonso

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by AfterLife View Post
    I don't know if it is a big deal or not, but occasions that punctures have happened are really a warning. Imagine Alonso's puncture in Spain was a serious one and the spain championship points were gone with just a puncture.
    The Delamination showd the high resistance core of the tires, Pirelli said Alfonsos puncture with yesteryear tires (2012) would have been very different, probably a DNF.
    Go Ferrari, beat them all!

  9. #159
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    Lotus boss Eric Boullier slams Pirelli tyre tweak decision
    By Jonathan Noble

    Lotus boss Eric Boullier has criticised the move by Pirelli to change tyres mid-season just because some teams have complained.

    Pirelli announced earlier this week that it would be tweaking the constructions of its rubber from next month's Canadian GP in light of the four-stops needed at the Spanish Grand Prix.

    With the move expected to benefit those teams like Red Bull and Mercedes that have struggled with the tyres so far this year, Boullier believes that few other competitions would have accepted such a change once a title battle was underway.

    "There aren't many sports where there are such fundamental changes to an essential ingredient part-way through a season," said Boullier on Thursday.

    "Just imagine for a moment that, because a football team can't run as fast as its opponent, the dimensions of the pitch are changed at half time!

    "That there are changes to come can be seen as somewhat frustrating, and I hope they are not too extreme. It's clear that Pirelli have found themselves in a difficult situation and under pressure from different quarters."

    Boullier believes the situation is especially unfair because all outfits had access to Pirelli's 2013 tyre data at the same time - and the move could hurt those outfits that elected to focus their designs on ensuring the tyres were looked after.

    "Last year, when we were designing our 2013 car, each team received information from Pirelli and everyone did the best job they could to develop a chassis which would make best use of the tyre characteristics," he said.

    "We even ran with some experimental 2013 tyres at the end of last season, to assist us in confirming our development paths.

    "As with every season, some teams do a better job than others with their designs, and some drivers are more adaptable than others to the changes of both car and tyre.

    Eric Boullier Lotus F1 2013"It is frustrating when you've developed a car from a set of tyre specifications which are available to everyone – for tyres that are the same for everyone – to then be told that they are being changed mid-season."

    Despite his clear frustration about the situation, which comes as Kimi Raikkonen lies just four points off the lead of the title standings, Boullier has said his staff will simply dig deeper to try and recover any ground it loses.

    "We have a team of talented designers and engineers who will be working twice as hard to ensure we adapt to these changes in the most competitive manner," he added.
    Forza Ferrari

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    And yet we stay largely quiet? The only thing that Ferrari have said is it's not as simple as that. What bothers me is Ferrari didn't even try to bother with is. Where is our leadership in times like this. Red bull must be laughing at us. Red bull will continue to lobby for more changes if needed in the future because they know they can win. At least put up a fight! We are one of the big teams and we're being quiet about it. If the change makes us even better it isn't that different to what red bull are doing only difference being is how. In the future we'll be walked over by red bull. By staying quiet like this is almost as if we are acknowledging that red bull are dominant and powerful. We should have seen this coming and reacted. We were probably too busy celebrating still and we've been caught out. Red bull sure have a good think tank. They pounced when it was the best possible time and got what they wanted. Even if the tyres don't suit them which I find difficult to believe they will still take some satisfaction that somebody changed something because of them. Championship isn't just about winning races and stacking up points but also winning these small political battles that have tremendous effects on the overall outcome. It's like a boxer losing a boxing fight before the fight even started!

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    Quote Originally Posted by shamim179 View Post
    And yet we stay largely quiet? The only thing that Ferrari have said is it's not as simple as that. What bothers me is Ferrari didn't even try to bother with is. Where is our leadership in times like this. Red bull must be laughing at us. Red bull will continue to lobby for more changes if needed in the future because they know they can win. At least put up a fight! We are one of the big teams and we're being quiet about it. If the change makes us even better it isn't that different to what red bull are doing only difference being is how. In the future we'll be walked over by red bull. By staying quiet like this is almost as if we are acknowledging that red bull are dominant and powerful. We should have seen this coming and reacted. We were probably too busy celebrating still and we've been caught out. Red bull sure have a good think tank. They pounced when it was the best possible time and got what they wanted. Even if the tyres don't suit them which I find difficult to believe they will still take some satisfaction that somebody changed something because of them. Championship isn't just about winning races and stacking up points but also winning these small political battles that have tremendous effects on the overall outcome. It's like a boxer losing a boxing fight before the fight even started!
    +1 Where is Ferrari....
    Go Ferrari, beat them all!

  13. #163
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    OMG thats a very illustrative picture, Bernie is pushing with them, Pirelli is bending...

    They are gonna walk over our carcass after this..
    Go Ferrari, beat them all!

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrari Man View Post
    I agree with FrankAlfa. Surely if they make the tyre last longer and prevent the de lamination which will inturn allow teams like red bull to push more during the race surely this will apply to ferrari been able to push more also.. Can't see how this will benefit any one team more so than the rest.
    It's more fun seeing Vettel finishing 30 seconds behind Alonso

    It's two different thing I believe. The delamination is due to the compound falling off the tires, not running out of compound. They can probably change the way the compound is bonded to the tire without changing the compound. Red Bull is lobbying for the change of compound which is not necessary.

    And in F1, I don't think it's as simple as that. Changes doesn't occur linearly.

  15. #165
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    If the problem is all about safety Pirelli don't have to touch the front tyres!!!!
    Just go for the rear 2012 kevlar belting and structure but cover that with the 2013 rubber compound mix.
    I am sure Red Bull and Merc. will agree !

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    If the tyre change results in shuffle of the pecking order I'm afraid that F1's reputation will take a huge hit.

    I couldn't agree more with Boullier. When Ferrari and the other teams were designing their 2013 cars they had data. In matter of fact, tons of data. Just because the Merc is freakishly fast in qualy it doesn't mean that their car is not fundamentally flawed. Ferrari and Lotus made sacrifices to their overall design to have this race pace, now 7 races later FIA/Bernie/Pirelli are basically "Erm, sorry guys, you shouldn't have really done so much work to optimize the tyres". What is really nauseating is the blatant lobbying from Red Bull and the way Pirelli were suffocated by the guys upstairs. Starting the season with a set of regulations and then changing them to actually improve other teams' performance - pathetic, sad, nauseating and absurd. This is beyond joke.

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    WOW that photo of Horner=Red-Bull, Lauda=Merc, Hembery=Pirelli Bernie=FIA, now that picture of them looks dodgy. Come on Ferrari fight back before its to late. Oh who is the guy sat next to Horner in the white shirt, does anyone know?

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirafiori View Post
    WOW that photo of Horner=Red-Bull, Lauda=Merc, Hembery=Pirelli Bernie=FIA, now that picture of them looks dodgy. Come on Ferrari fight back before its to late. Oh who is the guy sat next to Horner in the white shirt, does anyone know?
    TOTO WOLF?
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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamim179 View Post
    And yet we stay largely quiet? The only thing that Ferrari have said is it's not as simple as that. What bothers me is Ferrari didn't even try to bother with is. Where is our leadership in times like this. Red bull must be laughing at us. Red bull will continue to lobby for more changes if needed in the future because they know they can win. At least put up a fight! We are one of the big teams and we're being quiet about it. If the change makes us even better it isn't that different to what red bull are doing only difference being is how. In the future we'll be walked over by red bull. By staying quiet like this is almost as if we are acknowledging that red bull are dominant and powerful. We should have seen this coming and reacted. We were probably too busy celebrating still and we've been caught out. Red bull sure have a good think tank. They pounced when it was the best possible time and got what they wanted. Even if the tyres don't suit them which I find difficult to believe they will still take some satisfaction that somebody changed something because of them. Championship isn't just about winning races and stacking up points but also winning these small political battles that have tremendous effects on the overall outcome. It's like a boxer losing a boxing fight before the fight even started!
    +1

    People, don't be naive. There were some tweaks scheduled for Silverstone that would be focused on the delaminating issues on the rear tires. All of a sudden, after Mateschitz subtly threatened with Red Bull leaving F1, there was a meeting between Mateschitz and Ecclestone and Pirelli announced much deeper changes to their tires that will be ready for Canada.

    Lotus and Ferrari have been working hard. They did a better job than Red Bull this time. I wish the new tires didn't affect the pecking order but we all know the tires are key in F1. Lotus and Ferrari are being robbed their better job.

  20. #170
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    I think people are making to much of this. At least that is what I hope. Pirelli should only make the most modest changes and Nothing More! If we all of a sudden see Red Bull taking the lead in a dramatic, dominant manner, Formula One WILL SEE a Dramatic loss in Fans!!!!!!!!!!! I for one will stop watching this sport!

    Ciao,

    Forza Ferrari!!!!

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankAlfa View Post
    I think people are making to much of this. At least that is what I hope. Pirelli should only make the most modest changes and Nothing More! If we all of a sudden see Red Bull taking the lead in a dramatic, dominant manner, Formula One WILL SEE a Dramatic loss in Fans!!!!!!!!!!! I for one will stop watching this sport!

    Ciao,

    Forza Ferrari!!!!
    I agree. If this does too much to the standings, then Ferrari should kick up the fuss to end all fusses and get this change shelved. I mean goddammit, it isn't like every track will be as hard as Barca was on the tyres. why are Pirelli being such *******? They know more than me, it makes no sense.

    I hate all those Ferrari hating hypocrites btw, where were they when Vettel was winning races for fun, and the sport was just as ****** up as it is now? Oh that's right, 'While Vettel is dominating, at east we have racing going on in the rest of the field'

    Now Ferrari are winning races, it is all about the sport going backwards. This has been noticeable since they put on the engine freeze, but all this stuff only gets brought up when Ferrari win, as if to cheapen the victory. Sick of it personally.

    I guess it is good though, that the issue of F1 moving more towards the show side of the scale as opposed to the sport side, has been brought up.

    But, Jean, don't do this tyre thing. Just don't


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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22543884

    Gary Anderson analyzing the situation and making few very very good points. I will post whatever I thought was most important for the guys who are too lazy to read.

    "Red Bull have been complaining that the tyres are restricting their cars' performance, and they have done a good job of getting into the public consciousness the idea that this is happening with all the cars.
    But if you look at the data, things are not so different this year than they have been at any time since Pirelli became the sport's sole supplier in 2011, or even in the last year of Bridgestone tyres in 2010."

    "In 2011, Vettel won the Spanish Grand Prix. He also made four pit stops and there were 77 pit stops in the entire race. There were no complaints from Red Bull then."

    "If you want to know how hard drivers can push in a race, the best way is to compare both the race fastest lap and the average race lap time with the pole qualifying time:"
    2011 average lap: 1:28.837
    2012 average lap: 1:29.229
    2013 average lap: 1:29.039
    "This would seem to undermine two key complaints being levelled at F1 at the moment - that the Pirelli tyres have dramatically affected the ability for drivers to push hard in races, and that this has markedly worsened in 2013."

    "Pirelli has not yet said what it will do, but the strong suspicion is that it will keep the front tyres the same and change the rears so they are more like last year's. It may even go as far as to use last year's rear tyres."

    "The front tyre is the one that most affects the performance of the car. Its profile and shape, the shape of the contact patch and so on, has a significant effect on the aerodynamics.
    By contrast, changes to the rear tyre only affect the performance of the tyre itself, as opposed to making a crucial difference to the airflow around the car."

    "But in Spain, Vettel's problem was that the front tyres were getting too hot and he was having to slow down to stop them overheating and degrading. So if the front tyres are not changing, that won't help Red Bull in that situation.
    Mercedes, who have been going backwards in races after qualifying well, have the opposite problem. Their car is rear-tyre limited."

    "So a less stiff construction might help Mercedes because it will bring the rear suspension and tyres more into harmony and improve their traction, reducing the load on the rear tyre."

    "So, you can say that Ferrari have done the best job of adapting their car to the demands of the tyres.
    That's basically what a team's job is - to get the best out of the equipment at their disposal.
    It's not really right to mess with that in the middle of the season. It will create a lot of work for the teams and, while we can't be sure, it could well undo all the good work some have done to the benefit of others, who have done their jobs less well."


    He also states his opinion what should have been done and I got to say it's very logical.
    "Personally, I think if Pirelli were worried about the life of the tyres, a fairer choice would have been simply to go one stage harder on the compound - create a new 'hard' tyre and throw away the current 'super-soft'. The current 'soft' would become the 'super-soft', the current 'medium' the 'soft' and the current 'hard' the 'medium'."

  23. #173
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    Thanks for posting this

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    It would be good for us if they are only going to change the rear tyres like Gary Anderson said because our car tends to eat the rear tyres while it is smooth on the front tyres, Red Bull have the opposite problem so it would hurt them even more but lets wait and see what Pirellis plan is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    That is one classy response, bravo Ferrari.

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    Full Article

    Ferrari slams tyre criticism


    Ferrari has slammed the criticism of Pirelli and Formula One's tyre strategies through its Horse Whisperer column.

    Pirelli will change the tyre compounds ahead of the Canadian Grand Prix after the majority of teams ran a four-stop strategy at the Spanish Grand Prix. Following Eric Boullier's criticism of the move, Ferrari has also voiced its displeasure - with a thinly-veiled dig at Red Bull - saying four-stop strategies have not been a problem in the past.

    "These are difficult times for people with poor memories," the Horse Whisperer said. "Maybe it's because of the huge amount of information available today that people are too quick to talk, forgetting things that happened pretty much in the recent past. Or maybe the brain cells that control memory only operate selectively, depending on the results achieved on track by their owners.

    "A classic example of this is the current saga regarding the number of pit stops. Voices have been raised to underline the fact that various teams, some of whom got to the podium and others who were quite a way off, made four pit stops in the recent Spanish Grand Prix, making the race hard to follow.

    "It's a shame that these worthy souls kept quiet two years ago when, at the very same Catalunya Circuit and on the Istanbul track, five of the six drivers who got to those two podiums made exactly the same number of pit stops as did Alonso and Massa last Sunday in the Spanish Grand Prix."

    Ferrari's Horse Whisperer also went on to question the attitude towards executing a strategy that gets the best out of the tyres in Formula One at present.

    "In fact, there's nothing new about winning a race making so many pit stops, even discounting those where it was down to changeable weather. One only has to look back to 2004, when Michael Schumacher won the French Grand Prix thanks to what was a three stop strategy, later changed to a four stopper. That was the key which allowed the multiple champion's F2004 to get ahead of the then Renault driver, Fernando Alonso, who made three stops. And on that day and we remember it well, our strategy and the tyre supplier were showered with praise for allowing us to get the most out of the car.

    "Today however, it seems one must almost feel ashamed for choosing a strategy that, as always for that matter, is aimed at getting the most out of the package one has available. On top of that, if this choice emerges right from the Friday, because all the simulations are unanimous in selecting it, then why on earth should one feel embarrassed when compared to those who have gone for a different choice, only to regret it during the race itself. "

    Year 2000: R.I.P Formula 1

  28. #178
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    It will create a lot of work for the teams and, while we can't be sure, it could well undo all the good work some have done to the benefit of others, who have done their jobs less well."
    This is what RB needs to drill in their heads and others should protest heavily...its like others are sitting around on their hands while the school bully makes demands...someone ought to slap some sense into these whingers.

    Year 2000: R.I.P Formula 1

  29. #179
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    The problem now is that the sport is open to accusations of meddling, and some people are going to be suspicious of the motives for it.

    Inevitably, that will mean people will always wonder whether this change has affected the results - and, in the end, whether the right guy won the championship.
    Gary Anderson

    Again

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    Shame on you Red Bull, Bernie. Ferrari yet again proving it's a classy team & not a bunch of whiners

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