Pirelli tyre situation - All discussion here

[mark p]

We would post them, but they are against community standards

Look, if you wouldn't scream it at your grandmother or in church, don't post it here. Pretty simple.

I was of course only joking.

Ferrari are normaly very active on twitter surely something hs been said? Any other teams released statements? If not i take it the changes are not drastic only aimed at a few more laps a stint so everything stays the same pace included just one less stop for everyone.

[Tifoso]

I was of course only joking.

Ferrari are normaly very active on twitter surely something hs been said? Any other teams released statements? If not i take it the changes are not drastic only aimed at a few more laps a stint so everything stays the same pace included just one less stop for everyone.

My apologies.

I can't believe that Ferrari would be being so quiet if they were really upset about this.

[sagi58]

Don't know much about F1TODAY.net; but, they carried the following:

Tire Row Not so Simple to Solve

In the days after the Spanish grand prix, the word on everybody's lips is the same – tyres. Indeed, so crucial is the impact of Pirelli's controversial product this year that rumours are swirling that Red Bull mogul Dietrich Mateschitz may have renewed his threat to pull out of formula one.

Reports say the Austrian met with fellow billionaire Bernie Ecclestone in Barcelona, shortly before hinting to reporters that he is losing his patience. "Formula one tyre management is not a race," Mateschitz told German newspaper Bild. "The tyre is a means to an end -- it's how you transfer the potential and performance of the car and driver to the road." But he said the current situation "contradicts" the very idea of motor racing.

Whether Mateschitz threatened to quit or not, or whether the F1 chief executive heard Mercedes' Niki Lauda say the 2013 tyres are "the biggest joke", Ecclestone is now on board. "The tyres are wrong," he is quoted by the UK newspaper Express, "(and) not what we intended when we asked Pirelli to produce something which did a half race. Pirelli know it and they're doing something about it. We'll go back to last season's type of tyres, which gave us some close racing," he added.

As ever in F1, however, it's not that simple. The complaining is not universal -- especially among teams who have made the tyres work for them so far. "It's not as simple as that to just change the tyres," Ferrari team boss Stefano Domenicali told Auto Motor und Sport.

Lotus' Eric Boullier agrees that pulling the rug from under teams who are not complaining is "not fair". "Pirelli was asked to build tyres that last 20 laps, and they've done that. If our car can do it, the other teams should work just as hard," he told German RTL television.

Pirelli is also protesting about the fairness of the current situation; criticised if they do nothing, and potentially accused of favouring Red Bull if they make a change. "If we do something that helps them," Paul Hembery is quoted by the Guardian, "we can understand that Lotus and Ferrari won't be happy. We will be damned if we do and damned if we don't."

He is quoted by Brazil's O Estado de S.Paulo newspaper: "It would be much easier and cheaper to produce tyres that last the whole race. Anyone can see the amount of tyres we are manufacturing and taking to the race tracks. We could greatly simplify our task. As I've said, it's a choice between one or another kind of competition."

On the F1 grid, competition and politics speak the loudest. "The more frustrating the results," Welt newspaper correspondent Simon Pausch said, "the louder the complaints."

Times journalist Kevin Eason, characterising Mateschitz's words as a "declaration of self-interest', added: "(The) Tyres (controversy) is only a symptom of deep confusion and malaise in F1. Costs, 2014 engines, division of wealth etc," he added on Twitter.

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1s-t...imple-to-solve

[No1.FerrariFan!]

Some people on social media are complaining that the tyres are ruining the racing, well I don’t know which race you were watching on the weekend but it could not have been the one where Alonso said himself that he was pushing. Pirelli are not to blame it is the teams, lotus could have possibly won that race and pushed to the limit if they decided to 4 stop, Redbull have way to much downforce and they can’t reduce it because Vettle can’t drive an unstable car. People that think these new tyres are going to do the job then they have not been watching F1 for a very long time. Once the tyres are changed the teams will know they can make less pitstops, instead of sticking on fresh rubber so that they can push they will opt for the strategy of one less pitstop again and conserve tyres, these messages to save tyres are not going to go away. If F1 fans are finding the racing hard to follow like Martin Brundle suggests then maybe those people should switch off and watch paint dry. The only thing that is happening here is that Redbull are getting their way and F1 is no longer F1 its Formula Redbull supported by PirelliBull Motorsport.

[XXX132]

To heck with RB. No one forced them to design a tire eating car. I say they change the tires so that they are even less friendly to RB, resulting in multiple (safe) DNF's.

This I'm likin'!

[XXX132]

Do we not have someone who is clever with politics? Time to recruit someone!

FLAVIO!!!

[Hornet]

This is not good if Bernie sides with Red Bull. He's the boss and Pirelli still hasn't sign anything for next year.

[Kristof_F40]

I still think we have the best car this year, regardless of the tyre change, Newey's RB's have always been aggressively raked, downforce heavy, rear tyre hungry cars, and the delicate 2013 Pirelli's have exposed their Achilles' heel. But we simply cannot change the fact that the Ferrari and the Lotus are performing beautifully on the Pirelli's, and are designed to do so.
From what i understand reading the official Pirelli press statement, they want to reduce the number of dramatic delaminations by changing the belt from metal to kevlar, and firm up the degradation somewhat, but by no means these tyres will deliver the durability of 2012.
That tells me Red Bull might feel a little better on these tyres, but i can't see this as a change that will make them the car to beat, the complete design of the car is simply not right for that.
Ferrari and Lotus will still be able to race harder and longer on the new tyres, at the beginning of the stints Red Bull can maybe push harder than they do now , but when the tyres start to go, i'm sure Ferrari can still push longer and harder, for the simple fact that our car is designed that way from the basis and the Red Bull isn't.

What about the aero differences with the new tyres, won't they influence our car performance?

[stefa]

It's a shame how power and money can influence before history and results. We are witnessing RB pulling every string they can and influencing to change Pirelli tires so they can suit their cars better. We didn't hear or saw that big names of F1 like, McLaren or Williams are whining about tires! No! But RB is now even threatening to leave F1! OK. Let them leave! I know it's not that simple, lot of money is on the table.
RB be a gentleman when you are winning and also when you are loosing!

[Cozza]

I wouldn't care if red bull leave. Never really like all this Red Bull in sports anyway. Everywhere you look theres something red bull. Over sponsership really. Starts to turn you off after awhile. Plus I have to see two redbull teams in F1.

Plus its a ****** drink. I prefer beer...........or tequila


**NO SWEARING!!**

[Katu]

if RB threatens to leave then they are sore losers. suck it in

[Senna4Ever]

hmmm

Prosecutors in Munich have charged Bernie Ecclestone with bribery

What might Mateschitz have transfered? ;)

[stefa]

I wouldn't care if red bull leave. Never really like all this Red Bull in sports anyway. Everywhere you look theres something red bull. Over sponsership really. Starts to turn you off after awhile. Plus I have to see two redbull teams in F1.

Plus its a ***** drink. I prefer beer...........or tequila

There are plenty of better drinks than gasified anti cough drink


**Edited to remove quoted word**

[sagi58]

Craig Scarborough's take on what a tire change will mean to the teams:

Formula 1 tyre change: tech implications of Pirelli's decision

Pirelli's decision to change its tyres from the Canadian Grand Prix onwards will potentially have a far-reaching effect.

Tyres are an integral part of the car's design, affecting the aerodynamics and the suspension.

With changes to the construction moving back towards the 2012 tyre specification, married to the current compounds, teams will be heading back to their computer screens to re-optimise their cars around the modified tyres.

AERODYNAMICS

Tyres have a big impact on the airflow around the car, not only because of their size but also because of the sidewall profile and the way it deforms.

Traditionally, the impact has been more critical around the front tyres, as with the front wing in close proximity to the tyre, small changes in this area have a compound effect downstream.

But with the increased importance of air and exhaust flow around the rear tyres in the current generation of grand prix cars, there will also be implications for the rear end.
For windtunnel testing, Pirelli supplies 60 per cent scale tyres, which accurately reflect the deformation of the tyre.

Teams should be able to revert to the 2012 windtunnel tyres for aero testing.

Because of the change, teams will need to produce new versions of wings, endplates, floors and brake ducts.

SUSPENSION

The change to the tyre construction will impact the suspension.

Teams are provided with Pacejka models of the physical properties of the tyres by Pirelli, allowing their accurate representation in simulations.
As with the windtunnel tyres, it will be a case of reverting to known 2012 tyre data.

From this base, teams can look at revising their spring, damper and linking rates to account for the difference between the new and old construction.

Additionally, the suspension geometry will need revising to get the camber gains and the roll-centre location that work with the older tyres.

This requires revised suspension elements at the front and rear, necessitating new patterns, moulds and wishbones to be made, which is a significant investment mid-season.
Teams are faced with a large, but not insurmountable, challenge to adapt to the new tyres given the experience gained last year.

But it is a drain on resources for teams already stretched to develop new cars for the 2014 regulations.

The combination of the old tyre construction and new compounds will also be untested by teams going into the Canadian GP, which is quickly followed by some punishing, fast-flowing European tracks with unpredictable weather.

So any steps to stabilise the racing with these tyres could be offset by the effort required to adapt to them.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107432

[vae32]

Hi all this is my first post, I have always been a guest and now I thought I would like to be part of this community.

I thought I would have my say because this is really upsetting.

If Pirelli go and change the tyres now they are changing the Championship to suit Mercedes and Readbull. Redbull could reduce some downforce to help their situation the only problem and probably the reason why they won’t is because Vettle can’t drive a slightly unsettled car and they know that Webber would out pace him then. For the past 2-3 yrs Ferrari have struggled to get heat into their tyres did they complain? Did Pirelli change for them? NO, otherwise Fernando would have won all those Championships. People need to stop complaining, oh to many pitstops, not enough, the sky is blue, now it’s grey, there are cross winds today, you get my point. Martin Brundle has said that the race was hard to follow, that just says to me that he believes the F1 fans are stupid or maybe he is the one that was struggling I don’t know. I loved the race!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can’t remember Christian Horner complaining about the tyres after Malaysia & Bahrain this year.

I hope for the sake of the sport they don’t go changing the tyres, maybe just tweak the durability.

Welcome mate, love reading everyones comments....I just like to say that i 100% agree with all of the fans here, but i would want to point out one of the facts on the weekend that i saw, even Brundle himself notice it, is that most of the teams including ferrari almost got it wrong except lotus. The race weekend all came down to tyre strategy and lotus team played it perfectly, it could be down to too high temp for these hard tires to go off on the weekend quicker than the free practices...but i know this for sure if lotus can make those mediums last longer than those hard tires so does ferrari because i believe we are second best at looking aftering our tyres...another good example is rosberg, how many of us here thinks that rosberg would have not lasted a couple off laps before his tyres would have gone off, i for one was one of them...he managed to hold vettel back till first pit stop until he fit the hard tyres, thats when it all went wrong for him....Simple mecedes,rb got it wrong with tyre strategy and they only got there garage to blame for it and to top it off 3 pit stops damage limitation...if they would have done what the ferrari garage did they would have kept up with the leaders(maybe). Sack their engineers, they got it wrong...after getting that out of chest, i agree to tweak hard for durability and thats it, keep tire as it is, it's up to the whiners to put up or shutup. Keep up the good work at the Ferrari garage

[vae32]

Dietrich Mateschitz must be choking on his word's when he said Ferrari wasn't a threat, if his teams not winning he's crying to quit, i agree let them quit. He acts like he's the reason why people here loves f1

[Hornet]

Thanks for the Scarb's article, interesting read. Indeed Pirelli gave the team a 2013-spec tire last year for them to gather data. This is why it's unfair to change now after all the teams have already design their car around 2013 spec.

Dietrich Mateschitz must be choking on his word's when he said Ferrari wasn't a threat, if his teams not winning he's crying to quit, i agree let them quit. He acts like he's the reason why people here loves f1

I hope Red Bull quit then, they are the worse competitor we've ever had.

[Ken]

We all agree in here that it is now too late to change the design of the tyres that Pirelle have supplied so far this season.

As has been said there is question of fairness to ALL teams who were given samples of the tyre to aid development of the cars pre the racing season.

Some teams have made them work and if Berni gets his way their hard work will be for nothing.

If the "revised" tyre miraculously suits some teams at the expense of other teams then Berni's request will have devalued F1 more than any other issue in the past.

But what surprises me most is that the proclaimed number one car designer Mr Newey cannot get the tyres to work, and so the head of the Redbull team has felt the need to complain and demand changes for a problem that their chief designer cannot solve.

Has Newy lost his touch ???

[FerrariF60]

We all agree in here that it is now too late to change the design of the tyres that Pirelle have supplied so far this season.

As has been said there is question of fairness to ALL teams who were given samples of the tyre to aid development of the cars pre the racing season.

Some teams have made them work and if Berni gets his way their hard work will be for nothing.

If the "revised" tyre miraculously suits some teams at the expense of other teams then Berni's request will have devalued F1 more than any other issue in the past.

But what surprises me most is that the proclaimed number one car designer Mr Newey cannot get the tyres to work, and so the head of the Redbull team has felt the need to complain and demand changes for a problem that their chief designer cannot solve.

Has Newy lost his touch ???

i truly hope so....and let's hope that even this change wont' help them that much...but instead won't affect us at all, or better yet, MAY give us a SLIGHT advantage....

one die hard FERRARI Fan can only hope so....

[zike]

For me, the real question is why are we so quiet?

[FerrariF60]

For me, the real question is why are we so quiet?

maybe is because the ferrari engineers think taht this change will suit us even better...let's hope that is the real case and in the end Red fools will be the REAL SORE LOSERS.........that would make me extaticly happy

[Kingdom Hearts]

What happen if for some reason this new tyres suit Ferrari best, and we destroy everyone in Canada and UK, will they change them again?. If there is justice, this championship should be about Lotus vs Ferrari.

[Nova]

We all agree in here that it is now too late to change the design of the tyres that Pirelle have supplied so far this season.

As has been said there is question of fairness to ALL teams who were given samples of the tyre to aid development of the cars pre the racing season.

Some teams have made them work and if Berni gets his way their hard work will be for nothing.

If the "revised" tyre miraculously suits some teams at the expense of other teams then Berni's request will have devalued F1 more than any other issue in the past.

But what surprises me most is that the proclaimed number one car designer Mr Newey cannot get the tyres to work, and so the head of the Redbull team has felt the need to complain and demand changes for a problem that their chief designer cannot solve.

Has Newy lost his touch ???

Well, who is leading the wdc? What team is leading the wcc? I do think we would be better in points if not for some nasty luck. We have a pretty good car this year, so we can fight for the wdc/wcc. My question is, just how much is this new tire going to change the way the different teams have performed so far? If Alonso couldnt make it to the pits when he had a slow puncture, and we lost the race because of it, we'd be screaming. Massa after his last stop was reeling in Kimi, but only for a few laps...then he started having oversteer. Something does need to be done about the current tire. Im hoping they can make the changes but not change the overall dimensions of the tires, as that would affect all of the teams.

One thing I dont like is that RB starts crying, and all of a sudden we get changes. Ferrari hasnt said anything besides a few comments from the drivers earlier in the season. Id rather we be quiet and get on with it. But the truth is, there does need to be changes in these tires. For safety and for racing sake. I mean, some of these guys pit after 5 laps!!!

It was great watching Ferrari be aggressive, I mean, isnt that what racing is all about? If the changes will mean more actual racing and less tire conservation runs, then Im ok with it. Ferrari will deal with the changes and adjust. Thats what great teams do. If Ferrari can run flat out at every race and not worry about tires peeling off after 6 laps, then we may be in for some exciting racing. Patience grasshopper, lets see what unfolds.

A note on Merc..I dont think tires are their only problem...The Merc isnt there yet, and I feel theyve been short fueling it to get to the end of the race. I mean, the tires aint great, but to start on pole and finish where they did wasnt tires alone.

[Hornet]

What happen if for some reason this new tyres suit Ferrari best, and we destroy everyone in Canada and UK, will they change them again?. If there is justice, this championship should be about Lotus vs Ferrari.

The same people will complain and Bernie will repeat the same words:

Ecclestone is now on board. "The tyres are wrong," he is quoted by the UK newspaper Express, "(and) not what we intended when we asked Pirelli to produce something which did a half race. Pirelli know it and they're doing something about it. We'll go back to last season's type of tyres, which gave us some close racing," he added.

Anytime Ferrari dominate, he can just say "it's not close racing" and ask for changes.

[Alonso14]

maybe is because the ferrari engineers think taht this change will suit us even better...let's hope that is the real case and in the end Red fools will be the REAL SORE LOSERS.........that would make me extaticly happy

Is there info whether Pirelli has informed the teams exactly what they are changing?

[Grillo]

Red Bull: I DON'T LIKE THE TIRES?

FIA/Bernie/F1: Yes Sir. Here you have your new tires.

Ferrari: Mr. Mateschitz, we hope you like the new tires.

[Massimo]

What about the aero differences with the new tyres, won't they influence our car performance?

The new tyre has a kevlar belt, teams think the deformation in corners will be different, so the aerodynamical effect will also be different, maybe they will have to make some changes to the front wing and suspension. And probably extra hours in the windtunnel, for the smaller teams the extra money that they'll have to spend is an unwelcome surprise i think.

[mirafiori]

The new tyre has a kevlar belt, teams think the deformation in corners will be different, so the aerodynamical effect will also be different, maybe they will have to make some changes to the front wing and suspension. And probably extra hours in the windtunnel, for the smaller teams the extra money that they'll have to spend is an unwelcome surprise i think.

Yes Massimo, its good to see the FIA are thinking about the costs, especially for the smaller teams.

[Kyss4k]

Well, I can imagine that if after the change Red Bull starts to dominate (or will just suddenly have the fastest car) all hell will break loose. Ferrari/McLaren/Lotus has a strong fan base and I am sure we (the fans) and media would not let it just be. If Pirelli screws this up and will give Red Bull an advantage after they were crying for changes, it could be their end in F1.

[Nero Horse]

There is one good side to this dumb mid-season tyre compound change, now at least all F1 fans see what kind of pathetic whiners and cry-babies the losers from Red Bull are. And if we still manage to win after these changes then the more enjoyable it will feel. WE ARE FERRARI! WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP!!!