Ferrari still struggling with wind tunnel

[REDARMYSOJA]

I actually added another post where I took back all I said about Tombazis, Newey, and Ferrari. Not my business to judge them.

Hope I didn't offend you.

If you don't think Tombazis is up to the task, that's fine, you have every right to your opinion and to express it. Many others have said the same thing and I didn't have a problem with it. What I took issue with was implying that Tombasis was only still at Ferrari because he was a spy while at McLaren. I felt that out of line and unfounded as well.

It seems to me, by the video's I posted, that Tombasis design was fast out of the box this season. I still think Ferrari had a very good car early on, but between the bad wind tunnel and the change in tyres that edge has been muted. Not really Tombazis fault. And before we fault Tombazis's designs, we need to remember that the Ferrari really has been the best car since 2010 EXCEPT for the Red Bull, which is a puzzle no other team can solve either. So it's not like the car has been total junk. I know it's frustrating, not only this season but the last few. Ferrari has come oh so close but just can't crack the Red Bull dominance.

I'm not sure what is going on with the wind tunnel. The parts show good in the tunnel but not on the car. Tombazis only designs the parts, he doesn't build them. I'm beginning to wonder if the problem is in the actual building phase, not the wind tunnel. They seem certain it is the tunnel itself however, and know much more than I do.

[Chicane]

I agree that this wind tunnel issue is just another excuse crap,
its just a manifestation that we dont have a good designer or
maybe insufficient technical personel, the last competitive car
we have was 2010 it was aldo costa in the helm of design,
2011 we miss the blown diffuser trick, but its just last year
and this year that ive been seeing this wind tunnel issue
since tombazis head the design..
but anyways allison is there hope he can help out soon

[ntukza]

As far as I understand, the old technical director role has been split in two:
* James Allison works solely on the car
* Pat Fry does everything else, which includes working with SD/LdM on finding new talents, working with suppliers, pitstops, things like that.

So given that the technical directory is a managerial role, to which he will be assigned, why is James Allison's arrival seen by many as our silver bullet since our problem is the car and not how it's 'managed'?

[Bubbles]

So given that the technical directory is a managerial role, to which he will be assigned, why is James Allison's arrival seen by many as our silver bullet since our problem is the car and not how it's 'managed'?

I think it's a very poor understanding by the people of what actually happens in an F1 team. Plus, nobody ever talks about designers, only "directors" and "chiefs".

Superficiality, really.

And you're right, it's not the silver bullet. I read somewhere that Allison plans to inspire Tombazis to do a better job.

[FrankAlfa]

Design Direction and Leadership is what Allison's role will be.

Chassis Dynamics, Packaging and Cooling issues must be the Focus and are at the root of the problem. Solutions come only after the "Baseline" of the Problems are Defined. Ferrari has had this "Correlation of Data" problem for far to long. Hopefully the hiring of Allison, who has been at Ferrari before, can take hold of the situation and remove the flaws in the prcess. Some real headway in advancing the race car's inittal design must happen. This has been Tombazis and the Design Team's biggest problem.

[Consult_K_Young]

It seems odd to me that Ferrari would be the only team having difficulty correlating wind tunnel data. Particularly since I've heard they even tried other wind tunnels. If they can match things like the Reynolds number etc, I don't see how they can have a problem with correlation.

[REDARMYSOJA]

It seems odd to me that Ferrari would be the only team having difficulty correlating wind tunnel data. Particularly since I've heard they even tried other wind tunnels. If they can match things like the Reynolds number etc, I don't see how they can have a problem with correlation.

That's what I don't understand either. And they ARE using Toyota's windtunnel in Cologne. So is McLaren I believe, but we don't hear that McLaren is have correlation problems. So if Ferrari are having the same problems using the tunnel in Cologne, it sounds like it isn't the tunnel after all.

[AfterLife]

That's what I don't understand either. And they ARE using Toyota's windtunnel in Cologne. So is McLaren I believe, but we don't hear that McLaren is have correlation problems. So if Ferrari are having the same problems using the tunnel in Cologne, it sounds like it isn't the tunnel after all.

McLaren had correlation issue this season, but not as often as Ferrari.
http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsp...ry/107262.html

[Hornet]

That article was dated last year, so I guess it's safe to assume they fixed it, or it wasn't that bad. They were fighting against Red Bull for wins if not for the gearbox failures Lewis had.

[Consult_K_Young]

To have a couple things that don't correlate is fine. To have constant correlation problems in multiple wind tunnels, to me, indicates excuses, incompetence, or both. The issue is the problem could be anywhere, such as the guys that make the models that go in the tunnels could be screwing up the surface roughness. But this isn't normal. In college we could get correlating data with cheap tunnels, and the only PhD in the room was only observing.

[stefa]

That's what I don't understand either. And they ARE using Toyota's windtunnel in Cologne. So is McLaren I believe, but we don't hear that McLaren is have correlation problems. So if Ferrari are having the same problems using the tunnel in Cologne, it sounds like it isn't the tunnel after all.

Maybe they (Ferrari) just don't know how to use it...

[Bubbles]

Maybe they (Ferrari) just don't know how to use it...

I almost choked reading that.

[stefa]

I almost choked reading that.

Toyota should gave Ferrari user manual first to get familiar with it.

[Sha1]

Toyota should gave Ferrari user manual first to get familiar with it.

Maybe they did, but it's written in Japanese!

[ntukza]

[ismayilmv]

Why do not try in two type tyre....in both front rear......(in front soft.....at the same time hard Tyre......in rear)

[Kiwi Nick]

Why do not try in two type tyre....in both front rear......(in front soft.....at the same time hard Tyre......in rear)

Because the rules require that all four tires be of the same type.

[Forzi]

If they were really screwing up and used it as an excuse, they shouldn't be bringing these updates. Yet, they are constantly adding em, but then not putting em on the car for race day. I mean, before going to a circuit there should have been an idea>created part>tested in the wind tunnel>agreed to bring to track. Not working updates show that something ain't working in their making process and it looks logical that it should be the wind tunnel since these updates are being created/brought and i think Ferrari ain't waisting efforts to bring not working parts.

UNLESS, they are spending millions on making these not working cover up parts that clearly didn't work in the wind tunnel and flying them around the world just to look as if they got everything under control.

Of course, the unless part was a joke



or was it? :o

[Dino]

The wind tunnel Ferrari ready in mid-October

There is a delay in the restructuring plans of the plant. The car was developed in 2014 in Cologne

August 21, 2013 12:51


The wind tunnel in Maranello which is under renovation will not be ready before mid-October. A source with the Cavallino OmniCorse.it admitted that there is a delay on the plans.

According to initial plans, in fact, the system that was designed by architect Renzo Piano, it would have had to go back into operation at the end of this month, in time to carry forward the development of the car in 2014 with the turbo V6 engine, while the work will continue in one of the two wind tunnel of the Toyota Motorpsort in Cologne.

The same Simone Resta, designer of the F138, in a chat with journalists at the Grand Prix of Hungary said that the wind tunnel would return to be operational in late summer. In fact, at that stage the plant could be completed, before starting the inevitable calibration work of the structure. It is a crucial step because the laboratory data can be perfectly aligned with those that will occur on the track.

There is much expectation for the restoration of the wind tunnel Horse that has been revised to reflect company and those that are specific to the modern Formula 1: When it is ready, the Racing Department will finally be able to count on a cutting-edge facility where James Allison , the former technical director of Lotus to Ferrari arrives in full force from September 1, will give the best of himself, as the British engineer has an excellent training by aerodynamic.

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/300...%C3%A0-ottobre

[Kiwi Nick]

Could this be why Kimi's agent is going to talk to Red Bull again?

[Consult_K_Young]

Thanks for the post Dino.

[Rishu]

Ferrari's windtunnel will be ready to re-open at the end of October, a move the team believes will wipe out a significant part of its disadvantage to Red Bull.

The windtunnel was shut down for a comprehensive upgrade after Ferrari discovered correlation problems, meaning it has been using Toyota's ex-Formula 1 facility in Cologne in the interim.

While the tunnel is coming online too late to have any influence on Ferrari's 2013 car and work on next year's machine is already well-advanced, team principal Stefano Domenicali believes it will remove a major weakness relative to Red Bull.

"Yes," Domenicali said when asked by AUTOSPORT if this will wipe out part of its disadvantage to Red Bull.

"It is like playing basketball with one hand behind your back. You can do that for training, but when you have to play it's better to use two hands.

"We should be back with two hands [when the windtunnel is back in use].

"It is crucial for us. We have been suffering for two years, because we had problems with correlation [before the tunnel was closed].

"So we are looking forward to open it up again because it will be a massive tool to use."

While not having its own on-site windtunnel in operation over the past 18 months has hindered Ferrari's progress, deputy chief designer Simone Resta believes the decision to shut it down for upgrading was vital.

"Under Stefano Domenicali's direction, the team has invested a lot in upgrades of the tunnel and operation," he said.

"In our world, everything moves so quickly without any breaks and you need to take a long time to make a major upgrade.

"If not, you are just doing incremental upgrades.

"Toyota's is a good facility and is being used not only by us but also other teams.

"This has given us the opportunity to be ready at the end of October with our facility, which will be much better than before."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110112

[Nero Horse]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110112

Fantastic news!

It was about time.

[Katu]

Could this be why Kimi's agent is going to talk to Red Bull again?

then he can go

[fratelliferrari]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110112

Finally yes Hope everything will work properly now!

[Kiwi Nick]

then he can go

The sort of timely reply one might expect from a man from a nameless city!

[Nero Horse]

The sort of timely reply one might expect from a man from a nameless city!

It's a woman from a nameless city not a man, just letting you know.

[Katu]

The sort of timely reply one might expect from a man from a nameless city!

well if Kimi doesn't believe in this team, and starts to doubt if his decision was wise, then he could go, like people here has said about Fernando too, I might ad. however I hardly believe he starts to regret his decision before he even has sat in car

[Senna4Ever]

Another article about our weak point so far ...
hope it can change to a strength

autoblog.com

[Senna4Ever]

however I hardly believe he starts to regret his decision before he even has sat in car

and as long Ferrari pays right in time ;)