It's a moot point because we're winning this yearOriginally Posted by darkchild
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It's a moot point because we're winning this year
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
From your mouth to God ears!It's a moot point because we're winning this year
Full Member
I don't think last year's car was a dud - it would have won the title had Benz not been there, and we were well ahead of its old time rivals - Red Bull, Williams and McLaren. Last years's was a great car regardless of the results.we've been praying and hoping for the best eversince 2009....and every year the car's turned up like, how can i put this in good way...crap...with the exception of 2010 when the F10 was somewhat OK ish out of the box.
so let's ALL hope that the F2016 will be a winner right out of the box....
As to the rest of you all, take some anxiety pills and stop going on about livery because it does no affect the performance one bit! Just chill :)
Full Member
Given Red Bull had a dud of an engine, the other Merc runners without engine parity (and Williams lacking the balls to win a single race never mind a championship), there was little competition against us for best of the rest.
Lots of rumours flying around as always. Nevertheless, I still think the car launch will reveal how brave we are with the design and testing will give a relevant indication of how far we've come.
I hope the livery doesn't have more white than it does currently and they address the shade of red.
Full Member
http://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2016...ra.html?m=1#ut
F1analisitecnica on Haas car. Is google translate having a stinker or does the last paragraph actually say that according to their sources Haas wind tunnel data is better then Ferrari 2016 car? If that turns out to be truth this team should just cancel their F1 program because it makes no sense to pour in 4x times as much resources and get beaten (or even matched) by rookie team. That would be embarassment of epic proportions.
Edit
Now the guy who writes for blog says (while answering question) that Ferrari is aware of the data and to make your own conclusion. Seriously, this just cannot be truth, right?
Last edited by darkchild; 15th February 2016 at 01:52.
Full Member
I can't fathom what kind of thoughts were going through the Maranello engineers' mind looking at the data. It'd better be proven wrong in real life for the sake of the team's sanity. But then it would suggest there may be again correlation issues which they are sick of dealing with. Regardless the wind tunnel result alone, if the rumor is true, is humiliating. This is so shocking that I can't shake off these awful feelings for hours now. Maybe Gene Haas' comments from a few months ago wasn't just a slip of the tongue or showboating. (No, God. Please, no!)
The Auto Chronicle
I don't think so it will happen. It must be just a rumour.
Fight with passion, win with pride, lose with respect, but never give up.
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On February 22, the first pre-season test day is fast approaching for all the teams, but the team that most of all feel the real thrill is obviously the absolute onset Team Haas.
As already mentioned a few days ago (LINK), the American team based in Kannapolis in South Carolina, will perform along with the Scuderia Ferrari a very useful day filming on February 21 on the track of Montmelo, where the next day he officially switch on all the motors the teams today to the official start of the 2016 pre-season test.
Then to find out the livery of the American car will have to wait 21 unofficially or officially on February 22 due to the official performance, it might be not so long instead of waiting to hear the sound of the engine that will push Haas in his F1 debut (if the team shares with the expected time fans).
The principal Gunther Steiner teams in fact, through an interview with Autosport earlier this month, had announced the day of the first drive unit power Ferrari 2016, scheduled for Monday, February 15. This will be the second important step after passing the mandatory FIA crash test, carried out successfully at the beginning of last month.
By the latest information gathered by FUnoAnalisiTecnica, the Haas team is assembling the new car, including power unit, in that the Varano de 'Melegari, thanks to the fundamental support of Dallara. And it is from the seat of the Italian house that the first car assembled Haas will start to reach Barcelona by next weekend.
In addition to the assembly phase of the car, Dallara was also in charge of the design and development of many technical components on the American car, and therefore not directly purchased from Ferrari. The Italian company has developed over the frame, also throughout the aerodynamics (first wings, front and rear) and the cooling system of the power unit and of all its accessories addition to the change. One can therefore conclude that the first creature made in Haas is a mix between Ferrari (engine components, gearbox and suspension) and those designed by Dallara.
And moreover, we learned in the last few days, a lot of information that has left us surprised: according to a source close to both Ferrari to Haas, the data from the wind tunnel in Maranello bank Haas, would be slightly better compared to those of the brand new Ferrari 2016. it is true that the track will then give the right feedback, but if these are the conditions, you can certainly say that we are not facing a new Cinderella of modern F1.
http://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2016...ra.html?m=1#ut
Banned
How in hell can a rookie team have better aerodynamics?
Full Member
Well Gene has been saying since early January (IIRC) that they probably have better wind tunnel data than ferrari
Full Member
Perhaps there is more to this..
Haas is using the Ferrar wind tunnel
AND a lot of Ferrari employes have moved to Haas "to help" them (and using there windtunnel time to learn a lot, and then they'll move back to Ferrari with that knowledge, wasn't that the whole plan?
Haas is 50% Ferrari
The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few. ~ Enzo Ferrari
Religion? Ferrari!
If that's true... It can't be, I would be short of words...
"If he can't do it with Ferrari, well, he can't do it." - John Surtees
Full Member
Spot on mate. Forza Ferrari.
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Personnaly i don't care With livery.
If the car Is fast we all will love the color scheme!
Our pu will be top level and i predict one victory for grosjean!
Full Member
No he said there are parts that he thinks are better then Ferrari since Ferrari does it in classical way, and they do it differently. In any case, if this is true I would fire the entire aero team.
George Kabardis
So lets look at the equation!!
We are supposably will fight with Mercs for 2016 championship!!One good reason for that is our new PU!!!!
Now Haas has the same mechanical parts with us(PU,transmission etc) but better aerodynamics!!!!!
================================================
HAAS 2016 CHAMPION!!!!!!!!!!
FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!
Banned
it would really be embarrassing
Ste Grylls
Was just about to post that article. I cannot see that it's true.
I hate all the rumours and can't wait to see what happens. One minute, we are going to be beating Mercedes and have improved 1.5s. The next, we are behind in the aero department to Haas. What are you supposed to believe?
I very much doubt we are going to be beaten by Haas.
Full Member
I doubt that too, but what Im affraid of is that F1analisitecnica is rarely wrong. That is, they never have been from what I know. I remember everyone drumming how Ferrari is bringing new engine with 4 tokens spent in Austin and they posted that according to their sources, thats not happening. Alot of that could just be educated guess, but this new report makes me literally physically sick. What crazy crazy scenario that would be...
Full Member
Haas to be champions... This is not good news... If its true its an embarrassment.
Banned
they would have our 2016 spec PU and better aero
Registered User
Dont stress Gents, there are lots of ways this could be true but the performance of the ferrari is far superior. one of the easiest ways to have "good aero numbers" is to stretch out the car, so you have a longer wheelbase, which gives more space to turn and move the air around car exactly how you would want it. but having a really long wheel base will hurt the cars dynamics. anywways, if this is true long term it will be of a benefit to ferrari as they will doubtless get their hands on the info and redesign the part of the aero that arent up to par.
Full Member
FERRARI 2016: all the information gathered by FUnoAnalisiTecnica
With the February 19 ( you'll understand in a moment why that date) that is approaching, the factory is working very hard to get prepared for this important event.
On the day of February 9 , the first shell of the new Ferrari was semi fully assembled allowing the starting of the engine on the car with 059/5 667 project.
As we have already said many times, for Scuderia Ferrari the beginning of the season will be very important if not crucial, as the President Marchionne asked immediately the full loot that the victory; the Red has the obligation to be a winning car to bring the title to Maranello pilots missing since 2007 and the builders (missing since 2008). The mission will be anything but easy since Mercedes has no intention of abdicating and will rely on a car and a power unit that will be performing without much doubt (the real W07 will next be seen in the Barcelona tests seconds).
At the technical level, as we have already announced several weeks ago (the first preview on absolute Ferrari 2016 dated December 10), the project 667 , the first carried out by the trio Allison - stay - Binotto , it will present many new , and it will be a real its breaking point with little lucky F14-T and the best SF15-T.
1 - DATE: PRESENTATION AND filming DAY
As mentioned already a month ago, and although still lacking the formalization by Ferrari , the new 2016 car will be presented Friday, February 19 at 12 am , in a now classic online event. Only two days later , on Sunday 21 February, the new Italian car will run his first 100 km on the Montmelo track for what is considered the sporting regulations, a filming day (there are two permits per season). 2 - LIVREA
The Ferrari will use a very different livery from that of the past years , since the white color will be introduced on many areas of the car body (also in part of the underbody) and on part of the engine hood . This choice has been made for various reasons: in addition for the requirements of sponsors, there are also technical reasons behind the choice to reproduce the white that was missing on a Ferrari for several years. As has well written Motorsport Italy, in any case, the white paint is to be applied on the car before rolling out the red paint, which means that more "white" will be the Ferrari 2016, and will weigh less (obviously talk about a pound). In addition to this reason, then there is also another technical issue: the white color has a greater capacity of reflection of light and this property is definitely useful so albeit content to have a lower heating inside the bonnet.
The livery above, published a few days ago by the Republic and the famous Italian journalist Mensura, is a livery as collected by FUnoAnalisiTecnica is very close to the real one although can not be considered official . For the more "nationalist", we can also confirm to you that there will be the flag vertically on the new Ferrari 2016. For last thing, much of this on the black livery of the SF15-T 2015 will be eliminated in favor of White .
3 - AERODYNAMICS AND MECHANICS
After 4 seasons of use of the pull rod front suspension, Ferrari will again use a more appropriate suspension system for the technical period of the F1, namely flounder schema push rod . In addition to the return to the suspension system to "strut", for aerodynamic purposes, the steering arm is lowered to align with a lower triangle that should keep the tuning fork diagram, similar solution to the Mercedes W06 Hybrid of 2015.
The snout version implemented by the Maranello engineers will be very similar to the snout used by Toro Rosso last championship in 2015 but with a shorter and more prominence to the technical regulations limit. And what we have been told in the last days there will be also a "strange" news : the new face of the red in 2016 will be equipped with small "wings", apparently to increase the load downforce at the front. Unfortunately we can not get more details. However, a short snout that proves to be raised and with an air passage section between the supporting pylons and the wing, much larger than the old version. This solution will ensure an increased flow of air in the area of bottom car and then the possibility of generating more downforce thanks to the diffuser.
Also new is the rear suspension that has kept the pull rod suspension system, but which has been revised in mechanisms to further improve the mechanical grip and traction out of the slow corners.
The gearbox has been completely re-designed while maintaining, as in 2015, the clutch inside it . Ferrari has been working on two versions of Exchange, a far more extreme than the other: the version that will be brought to the track in Barcelona is the most innovative version and contained in size, which has created significant problems (just mounted, is literally "burst ") on the Maranello benches where transmissions are tested for the Red.
4 - POWER UNIT
With the ' goal of having a very tapered rear and increase the power of the power unit , the staff of engineers led by Mattia Binotto has worked on various areas of the power unit while managing to not spend all 32 tokens (plus the 4 of last season ) available. But now let's look at some of the Power Unit macro intervention areas.
4.1 - MOTOR ENDOTHERMIC
In 2016 we will see a Ferrari much "lean" to the rear. In order to do this, the engineers at Maranello have been working in different areas of the Power Unit. The endothermic engine, in addition to the now famous new stand, will change in many other areas and will be quite different both in size and in positioning with respect to that used in the 2015 season.
The technical headed by the engineer Binotto, have sought to contain the size of the entire power unit , for indirectly also enhance the sliding of the flows directed towards the rear of the car, useful to generate greater aerodynamic load due to the various components present in the rear end of a car of Formula 1. in the first place from the speaker, useful to derive aerodynamic load without a significant increase in aerodynamic drag, as opposed to when you go to look through a wing (the aerodynamic resistance is accentuated), to make a quick example.
The turbocharger group has not been "spliced", solution that will remain so only on Power Unit Mercedes and Honda, but was placed in the back dell'endotermico. Although the dimensioning of these two components has not suffered serious distortions compared to 2015.
An important new feature , introduced on the internal combustion engine is using its own version of the DiesOtto that Mercedes began developing several years ago (the first engine prototype shown in 2007 at the Frankfurt Motor Show). This technology, also called HCCI , allows the engine to operate in the full-load moments simply as a normal petrol , with the candle which triggers the combustion of the air-petrol mixture. When, instead, the engine must run at partial loads, the combustion takes place spontaneously , it increases the compression ratio and the everything happens as in the classic diesel engine, with thus a better efficiency.
The Maranello engineers, throughout the winter have worked hard to find the ignition in the combustion chamber , a very similar operation to that of Diesel engines. To do this, the compression ratio was increased managing to reach a pressure next to the combustion chamber of 200 bar (Mercedes works without major problems at slightly higher pressures). The problems that are being introduced to bring the pressure in the combustion chamber to very high values are many and important ; one of the main is related to pressure peaks (especially on the cylinders) and mechanical stress that generates the mixture inside the combustion chamber, usually not bearable by the motor above the low to medium loads. These high pressure values are then to affect the operation of the whole endothermic units , often creating many vibrations which greatly put under stress as well as the cylinders, also the crankcase and cylinder head.
The intercooler water to air intercooler, placed until last season inside the "V" of the internal combustion engine, is positioned inside the frame , the front of the Power Unit, following the philosophy that Mercedes has followed since 2015 . the other radiators, dedicated to ICE, electronics, ERS, water and oil cooling IC, will be placed between the top / rear of the engine and the side pods.
This shift allowed the Maranello engineers to insert in the V the MGU-H electric motor , but also to use the horns or trumpets variable intake because in 2015 there was no space. This technical feature, widely used especially in high-performance engines, will help the Maranello engineers to properly take advantage of the inertia of the gas column and the pressure waves present in the intake ducts, improving both the effectiveness of aspiration, is filling of the combustion chamber, necessary if you want to increase the endothermic unit combustion efficiency.
4.2 - PART HYBRID
Important work is work performed on electric motors that have been partially revised, most work has focused primarily on MGU-K which was positioned on the left side of the internal combustion engine as well as miniaturized thanks to the close collaboration with Magneti Marelli. The new motor generator will be very compact in its dimensions and will ensure higher efficiencies than that used in recent seasons. The allocation of the MGU-H has not changed: the electric motor will be coupled to the compressor and turbine, but placed within the V of the ICE.
5 - RADIATORS
The new project 667 the arrangement of radiators as written just above has been changed to that reached last season. The technicians of the Italian team wanting to taper the rear of the car had to re-engineer the entire central part of the car . As anticipated now two months ago, the Ferrari 2016 will be used for radiators arranged more "vertical" than those of the SF15-T. And from the information gathered by FUnoAnalisiTecnica, new radiators weigh about 6 kg less than those used in 2015.
6 - PROBLEMS OF THE PROJECT 667
When you want to build a machine from what until now we called a "blank sheet" you can certainly run into some teething problems.
Problems with the new face who had to undergo some reading redesigns to be able to pass the FIA crash tests. If this can be considered a problem solved now, those still not completely solved concern the new radiators, the new conception of Power Unit and truly innovative change that the red car in 2016 will lead to a short track (shakedown in Barcelona, Sunday, Feb. 22) .
With regard to the radiators, the main problem comes from a bad heat dissipation which would lead to overheating of the radiators themselves and which will endanger some fundamental components of the car, primarily the ICE. But there are also positive aspects: the new solution designed for the car in 2016, in the wind tunnel there were no annoying aerodynamic lock problems that had plagued the car in 2014 for example, the F14T, which also used the radiators more vertical than those mounted in 2015.
With regard to the new concept of Power Unit we will not re-dwell on the various pros and cons that you have using HCCI. We want to go directly to the point, telling you that on the benches there were numerous problems: the principal are due to annoying vibrations that they put more time into crisis the new Power Unit Italian. Vibrations that led to the breakup of some basic components such as cylinder heads . the combustion inside the V6 is unfortunately not yet homogeneous as the Mercedes V6 and addressing some of the problems now Ferrari has asked Shell a big step on its gasoline. If we talk about raw power, Ferrari over the counter to what we have been told, has reached Mercedes with a power exceeding 900 hp; But now we need to understand how HP will not be able to take advantage because of the problems mentioned above. Ferrari now puts a big question: the risk of breaking in the test, but managed to figure out how much you can push up the new Italian power unit, or travel conservative to collect more data as part of chassis, aerodynamics and dynamics of the car?
Chapter change : as already mentioned several times, the first even now two months ago, the new gearbox of the car in 2016 will be little bulky and very limited in size . In short, even in this area Allison & Co wanted to dare and try the limit. But sometimes find the limit means to encounter problems; and in fact, what we have been told, the change of the red would still rather fragile and unreliable . Another problem because even for transmissions as well as for the Power Unit there is a limit imposed by the technical regulations: To avoid penalties can only use 4 broadcasts during the season. From the fifth on, the penalty on the starting grid positions will be 5.
A few more days and we'll see if, not only Ferrari, but also the FUnoAnalisiTecnica team has worked well over the winter. Sponton of Cristiano and Piergiuseppe Donadoni
http://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2016...ormazioni.html
Full Member
Some good information in these articles, we can only guess about their accuracy, but if true, it shows Ferrari are pushing to the limit with the mechanical side.
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
That is why I keep on going by SEEING IS BELIEVING!!!
Full Member
It could be true, as Crabbia said, that they have longer wheelbase then us. Its much easier to manipulate air around longer and what appears to be narrower car then shorter one but best compromise has to be found.
I just find it worrying that we have big problems with engine and gearbox
Banned
it seems we have a lot problems, i dont like it
\m/HEAVY METAL\m/
Just couple of days ago, people around here were so hyped how things are great and how this year is going to be that one for Ferrari. Now 180 degree turn! Everyone worried!? Chill don't believe everything you read (good or bad). We'll see some indicators in winter testings and than off course we will now where is our place comes 3rd free practice in Australia!
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or even after Q3 and the race in Australia
George Kabardis
I'm still optimistic!!!!!!
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