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Thread: What is going on with Sebastian Vettel

  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroutis View Post
    Just because you don't understand things, that does not make things inexcusable.
    You say bout #1, #2, but Arivabene simply denies this and says he does not believe in team orders so how do you support that "everybody knows" ?
    In fact, late events underline the very fact that EVERYONE now clearly should know, that there is no clear status, and in fact, if there was, the team would be in far better state, even if there are these few romantics (you all know who I am talking about) that think that sport is better without team orders.

    A team goes astray when there is no clear leadership in place.
    Is it strange that after Sergio's death , things went to hell?
    Is it strange that there is no clear leadership in the pits?


    Is it strange that the way Kimi was handled in respect to his contract was an utter fail ( I don't mean he was not kept in Ferrari, but the WAY he was dealt with at this point of the championship )?
    All could be solved with this man.

    1468937220-brawn.jpg

  2. #752
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    I don’t know why people seem surprised that Ferrari have fallen behind. It’s clearly Vettel, who has never been tier 1 driver. People got blinded by those Redbull championships and lulled into a false sense of security. Ricciardo proved this in 2014, yet Ferrari signed the beaten driver. It wasn’t just that Vettel was beaten coz everybody gets beaten at some point (except Schumacher). But the way Ricciardo beat him was so resounding it left no doubt who was the better driver. It’s no surprise that Hamilton has been running circles around him for the past 2 years. That’s because Hamilton fought wheel to wheel for years at McLaren all the while refining his race craft and learning how to calculate risks. All those coming together with Massa in 2011 taught him a lot about collecting points. Also he looked at Button’s cruise and collect mentality and modified it to his own benefit. All the while Vettel was out in the lead collecting statistics but learning nothing. Now the chickens have come home to roost and he is being made to look like an amateur. Now as well as trying to beat Hamilton next year there will be another dynamic in the shape of Leclerc who looks very very good, good enough to embarrass Vettel even further.

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonecrasher View Post
    I don’t know why people seem surprised that Ferrari have fallen behind. It’s clearly Vettel, who has never been tier 1 driver. People got blinded by those Redbull championships and lulled into a false sense of security. Ricciardo proved this in 2014, yet Ferrari signed the beaten driver. It wasn’t just that Vettel was beaten coz everybody gets beaten at some point (except Schumacher). But the way Ricciardo beat him was so resounding it left no doubt who was the better driver. It’s no surprise that Hamilton has been running circles around him for the past 2 years. That’s because Hamilton fought wheel to wheel for years at McLaren all the while refining his race craft and learning how to calculate risks. All those coming together with Massa in 2011 taught him a lot about collecting points. Also he looked at Button’s cruise and collect mentality and modified it to his own benefit. All the while Vettel was out in the lead collecting statistics but learning nothing. Now the chickens have come home to roost and he is being made to look like an amateur. Now as well as trying to beat Hamilton next year there will be another dynamic in the shape of Leclerc who looks very very good, good enough to embarrass Vettel even further.
    Sorry your hate for Seb is blinding you again. Seb never lost out to a teammate in a season, he proved his worth back in 2008-2013 in that era he was just briliant. Hamilton lost the title because of dump mistake in 2007, 2010.... In would be a much closer in 2014 with Ricciardo if Seb didnt retired in Australia, had engine problems in Austria, Monaco and many more, he had much more issues as Ricciardo who was beaten next year by a rookie Kvyat, what a joke really. Seb had also in contract clouse that he can leave the team if he finishes worse that 3.rd. He is a worthy 4.time world champion, with mistake but he will strike back, as Lewis did after 2011, when he was very poor. Button, Rosberg, Kimi all are worthy champions, and what have you done lately, sitting on the couch complaining, have a life and stop hating, and life will get better...

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vettel165 View Post
    Sorry your hate for Seb is blinding you again. Seb never lost out to a teammate in a season, he proved his worth back in 2008-2013 in that era he was just briliant. Hamilton lost the title because of dump mistake in 2007, 2010.... In would be a much closer in 2014 with Ricciardo if Seb didnt retired in Australia, had engine problems in Austria, Monaco and many more, he had much more issues as Ricciardo who was beaten next year by a rookie Kvyat, what a joke really. Seb had also in contract clouse that he can leave the team if he finishes worse that 3.rd. He is a worthy 4.time world champion, with mistake but he will strike back, as Lewis did after 2011, when he was very poor. Button, Rosberg, Kimi all are worthy champions, and what have you done lately, sitting on the couch complaining, have a life and stop hating, and life will get better...
    Bro. there are about 6 or 7 drivers who would be world champion in an adrian newey spaceship. That's the bottom line.

    And Riccardo was consistently quicker than him both in race and quali, theres just no arguement there.

    Hes not good enough.

  5. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    Bro. there are about 6 or 7 drivers who would be world champion in an adrian newey spaceship. That's the bottom line.

    And Riccardo was consistently quicker than him both in race and quali, theres just no arguement there.

    Hes not good enough.
    Aha, like his teammate Webber couldn't be second not even once in the same car while Vettel was world champion.
    Yea, right.. anybody could do it, just that the truth is that Vettel made the difference.

    I am so tired of the Alonso/Ham worshippers who couldn't get past the hate towards Vettel and are just waiting for his mistakes to complain and remind us how ordinary he is.

    Hamilton's Mercedes is the spaceship, I made a correction for you. The most dominant car of all time (2014-2018).

  6. #756
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    The next year is preparing very hard for Vettel Vettlel. If in the first races he loses to Charles, the Italian press will destroy him. And this will be his last year at Maranello.

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noquarter View Post
    The next year is preparing very hard for Vettel Vettlel. If in the first races he loses to Charles, the Italian press will destroy him. And this will be his last year at Maranello.
    Wishful thinking. I like Leclerc a lot and actually fear he might have his career ruined moving to Ferrari so soon especially in the situation they are currently in but Vettel has roots in the team. You honestly think a rookie that has to adapt to a new team can beat a veteran within the same structure? Maybe in 2-3 years but not next year. I'd rather they focus on holding back the RedBulls as if the new Honda engine is an improvement on the Renault they will seriously set themselves as the 3rd team contesting the titles. Verstappen is a crash barrier on wheels, you cannot overtake him without sustaining any car damage so it will be hell on track should he have a powerful PU that nullifies the straight line advantage of Mercs/Ferrari.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRX202 View Post
    Wishful thinking. I like Leclerc a lot and actually fear he might have his career ruined moving to Ferrari so soon especially in the situation they are currently in but Vettel has roots in the team. You honestly think a rookie that has to adapt to a new team can beat a veteran within the same structure? Maybe in 2-3 years but not next year. I'd rather they focus on holding back the RedBulls as if the new Honda engine is an improvement on the Renault they will seriously set themselves as the 3rd team contesting the titles. Verstappen is a crash barrier on wheels, you cannot overtake him without sustaining any car damage so it will be hell on track should he have a powerful PU that nullifies the straight line advantage of Mercs/Ferrari.
    Hamilton was in 2007 on the same level as Alonso. Schumacher in 1991 destroyed Piquet. This can happen next year.

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by arno View Post
    Aha, like his teammate Webber couldn't be second not even once in the same car while Vettel was world champion.
    Yea, right.. anybody could do it, just that the truth is that Vettel made the difference.

    I am so tired of the Alonso/Ham worshippers who couldn't get past the hate towards Vettel and are just waiting for his mistakes to complain and remind us how ordinary he is.

    Hamilton's Mercedes is the spaceship, I made a correction for you. The most dominant car of all time (2014-2018).
    You have absolutely 0 arguement.

    Which is the reason you bring up "Alonso - Hamilton worshippers" and all that other rubbish.

    Vettel had the fastest car for part of this season...guess what, he didn't maximize it, Hamilton was still beating him. Thats just a fact im afraid.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noquarter View Post
    Hamilton was in 2007 on the same level as Alonso. Schumacher in 1991 destroyed Piquet. This can happen next year.
    something you are missing, before Lewis joined for full season at Mclaren, in 2006, before the testing ban, he racked up 19000kms testing.
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  11. #761
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    @FerrariFan, Sorry, my bad, I forgot to add maxy max and riccardo to that list.
    There’s a 99.9 % probabilty that you like them too.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    Bro. there are about 6 or 7 drivers who would be world champion in an adrian newey spaceship. That's the bottom line.

    And Riccardo was consistently quicker than him both in race and quali, theres just no arguement there.

    Hes not good enough.
    Dani Ric was only on same level as Seb, becuse that year EBD were banned. Seb had to re-adjust he driving style to havng a car alot less "loose" at the rear. He likes to have a planted rear end Dan Ric can drive with more oversteer. Its not about Dani Ric being better, its about what they, or any driver, like and feel happy within the car, how they can maximise their driving styles and skills.
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  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Dani Ric was only on same level as Seb, becuse that year EBD were banned. Seb had to re-adjust he driving style to havng a car alot less "loose" at the rear. He likes to have a planted rear end Dan Ric can drive with more oversteer. Its not about Dani Ric being better, its about what they, or any driver, like and feel happy within the car, how they can maximise their driving styles and skills.
    Which red bull engineer has confirmed this. Send me a source from someone at red bull cos i would like this read that.

    Ps. You know part of what makes a great driver great..

    They can adjust and maximize the machnery they have. Two drivers i have seen at ferrari did that.

    1. Schumacher

    2. Alonso

    Lots of drivers can win if the car is fast and just how they like it.

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    Which red bull engineer has confirmed this. Send me a source from someone at red bull cos i would like this read that.

    Ps. You know part of what makes a great driver great..

    They can adjust and maximize the machnery they have. Two drivers i have seen at ferrari did that.

    1. Schumacher

    2. Alonso

    Lots of drivers can win if the car is fast and just how they like it.
    Alonso yes, he's actually doing it now, getting the best out of a go kart. Not one inch of Schumy's car was not the way he asked. He owned the team. He also controlled the #2 car!! But the results were great!

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    Which red bull engineer has confirmed this. Send me a source from someone at red bull cos i would like this read that.

    Ps. You know part of what makes a great driver great..

    They can adjust and maximize the machnery they have. Two drivers i have seen at ferrari did that.

    1. Schumacher

    2. Alonso

    Lots of drivers can win if the car is fast and just how they like it.
    dont have too, as you said to someone else in a post in another thread, google it. Its all there. Plus, it was well spoke about during the 2014 season.
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  16. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    Which red bull engineer has confirmed this. Send me a source from someone at red bull cos i would like this read that.

    Ps. You know part of what makes a great driver great..

    They can adjust and maximize the machnery they have. Two drivers i have seen at ferrari did that.

    1. Schumacher

    2. Alonso

    Lots of drivers can win if the car is fast and just how they like it.
    Exactly! I dont think there will be any driver on the grid in 2019, with that ability. certainly not vettel.
    The day SV leaves ferrari, i can wholeheartedly support the team. As of now, i can only wish for Kimi to win one race before he moves to Sauber and fades away.
    Silently, like a shadow

  17. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    dont have too, as you said to someone else in a post in another thread, google it. Its all there. Plus, it was well spoke about during the 2014 season.
    If it doesnt come from someone who knows what they sre talking about im not interested.

    Both had the same car, same opportunities and one outqualifed the other and won 3 races to the others 0. Thats facts,.not speculation.

  18. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    If it doesnt come from someone who knows what they sre talking about im not interested.

    Both had the same car, same opportunities and one outqualifed the other and won 3 races to the others 0. Thats facts,.not speculation.

    What's matter, don't like being wrong? If you google it. You will find interviews of seb and from Horner saying same thing.
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  19. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    What's matter, don't like being wrong? If you google it. You will find interviews of seb and from Horner saying same thing.
    You made a claim, I asked for evidence, you provided none, I moved on.

  20. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    What's matter, don't like being wrong? If you google it. You will find interviews of seb and from Horner saying same thing.
    Even if this theory is true, difference between good drivers & great drivers is that great ones drive around problems and adapt well. This is what is being discussed
    ďI prefer to beat them on SundayĒ -Fernando Alonso, Press Conference Korean GP 2010

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  21. #771
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    Vettel USED to be coached/advised under Christian Horner with RedBull.....hence his 4 winning titles.

    As of late for 2018, I don't think he recieves the same tactical support from Arrivabene.

    Seb has too much pressure to deal with and he's making mistakes.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  22. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    You made a claim, I asked for evidence, you provided none, I moved on.
    Google it my friend find all you need to know. You don't want look into the truth and discuss the real matters, just spout your theories why he so rubbish. If challenged you don't like it.

    All the info out out there if you look.
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  23. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rishu View Post
    Even if this theory is true, difference between good drivers & great drivers is that great ones drive around problems and adapt well. This is what is being discussed
    Drivers like schumi were great. But problem was, they drove so good. They drive around the real problems with a car and those issue do not get fixed. Then the #2 driver will look sub standard.
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  24. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    Bro. there are about 6 or 7 drivers who would be world champion in an adrian newey spaceship. That's the bottom line.

    And Riccardo was consistently quicker than him both in race and quali, theres just no arguement there.

    Hes not good enough.
    But your boy Hamilton isn't among those 6, 7 drivers

    McLaren back in 2012 said that they had the best car in 2011 and Vettel was beating Hamilton despite inferior car and said there was no trickery on cars and that Vettel is simply a faster driver. Stats also show that McLaren Mercedes was the fastest car in 2012 as well, 0.2s quicker than the rest of the field. So the spaceship you are talking about must exist in your fairy world, send us a video though, would love to see how your imaginary world looks like.

  25. #775
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    But your boy Hamilton isn't among those 6, 7 drivers

    McLaren back in 2012 said that they had the best car in 2011 and Vettel was beating Hamilton despite inferior car and said there was no trickery on cars and that Vettel is simply a faster driver. Stats also show that McLaren Mercedes was the fastest car in 2012 as well, 0.2s quicker than the rest of the field. So the spaceship you are talking about must exist in your fairy world, send us a video though, would love to see how your imaginary world looks like.
    Donít try and pull that, itíll make you look daft, even full blooded Ferrari fans wouldnít fall for that.

    2 points.
    1. Itís not the best car if it canít finish a race
    2. Even last year, mclaren was saying they had the best chassis.... sure

  26. #776
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    One thing is for sure it is not a Schumacher or Alonso format driver. I hope that next year will show much more.

  27. #777
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinmay View Post
    But your boy Hamilton isn't among those 6, 7 drivers

    McLaren back in 2012 said that they had the best car in 2011 and Vettel was beating Hamilton despite inferior car and said there was no trickery on cars and that Vettel is simply a faster driver. Stats also show that McLaren Mercedes was the fastest car in 2012 as well, 0.2s quicker than the rest of the field. So the spaceship you are talking about must exist in your fairy world, send us a video though, would love to see how your imaginary world looks like.
    So basically you are trying to insinuate vettel is 0.2 quicker than hamilton?



    That 2012 mclaren team was dogged with operational and reliability issues all year. Hamilton decided to leave them after that season.

    Meanwhile vettel was doing his usual errors trying throw away the title to Alonso.

    Final race of the season. He bottles it, spins on lap 1, somehow no one takes off his front wing and he climbs up the grid in his rocketship....wins another world title.

    Good driver.

    GREAT CAR.

  28. #778
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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariFan View Post
    So basically you are trying to insinuate vettel is 0.2 quicker than hamilton?



    That 2012 mclaren team was dogged with operational and reliability issues all year. Hamilton decided to leave them after that season.

    Meanwhile vettel was doing his usual errors trying throw away the title to Alonso.

    Final race of the season. He bottles it, spins on lap 1, somehow no one takes off his front wing and he climbs up the grid in his rocketship....wins another world title.

    Good driver.

    GREAT CAR.
    Hamilton finished 2012 just under 100 points down on Vettel with a faster car.

    I think I explained it to you a few times before, but Lewis's car was as reliable as Vettel's (both had exactly 2 mechanical DNFs).

    Lewis had 3 DNFs due to accidents and one more strategic retirement about 10 laps to go when he was out of the points. Vettel had no other DNF apart from the 2 mechanical ones.
    Alonso even one DNF in Suzuka start where he was at fault.

  29. #779
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    2012 who really cares now? Lewis is better than Seb right now and that's the problem we face.
    Forza Ferrari

  30. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    2012 who really cares now? Lewis is better than Seb right now and that's the problem we face.
    Amen to that. Vettel hasn't matured into a more even-handed and smarter driver. He seems to have only become more hot-headed and impulsive on track at Ferrari, which has become patently obvious in the two seasons where he actually had a chance, i.e. last season and especially this one.

    And, no, it just isn't good enough.

    He simply hasn't been up to it this season. Lewis has made him look very mediocre at best. And Vettel only has himself to blame (ludicrous and embarrassing strategy gaffes by Ferrari aside - which have not helped, of course).

    One comparative analysis I will make is this: Vettel is not and never has been on the same level as Michael Schumacher, not to mention other greats like Senna or Prost.

    Bottom line: Most of us know deep down that Schmuacher at his peak would be neck-and-neck or even leading the WDC in this same 2018 Ferrari - and, dare I say it, probably so too would Alonso.

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