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Thread: What is going on with Sebastian Vettel

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrc5555 View Post
    After half a season gone he is outscored by his teammate and two Redbull drivers (Max gets 9 more points than Sebastian counting from Spain to Silverstone).
    Somebody could said (Greg) it is down to bad luck, but there has been also lot of Sebastians mistakes, just two in last race- spin, and dangerously pushing Massa out of track and gets a penatly, outbreakes himself in Canada and loses shut to attack Lewis for win...

    Last days all talked about Kimi and should we stick with him as number two driver or find another, but my question is should we stick with Sebastian as number one driver or push for another?
    There are certainly fue drivers who can perform better than Sebastian, Alonso is one of them and is available. We all know Alonso was doing miracles in inferior car (Sebastian is far from miracles), should Ferrari get him back?
    dear friend...FYI none of us in here are qualified to say /compare the drivers or their performance... they are driving at break neck speed...and a simple mistake that they make could mean certain death... you are right.. seb kinda spins and makes unusual mistakes where other drivers might not ... and obviously the reason is that he is pushing the car more than he should... and im okay with that...cos i don mind a driver driving his a$$ off and make couple of mistakes while trying to give his best...cos right now we are not a championship contender...and playing it safe wouldnt make much of a difference anyway...

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrndLkNatv View Post
    Seb is pushing to hard given the car he has.. He wants to win in the worst way and that is why he is making a few mistakes.

    As for Seb not being the best driver, that's almost funny.. Given equal cars, Seb is probably the most consistent driver in F1, that is he can lay down exactly the same fastest lap, over and over again, the only person close to him is Hamilton but unlike Hamilton, Seb's focus can 't be broken whereas Hamilton when pushed to the limit is prone to emotional outburst. Alonso, is super fast, but not consistent, lap after lap after lap and he is very emotional and can get very flustered unlike Seb. Fernando is almost done racing, Seb is 29.. Ferrari would be stupid to change anything other than improving the car.
    Do not agree a lot of that.

    Vettel the most consistent and steady under pressure? Canada 2011 springs to mind immediately, as does Canada this year. Also unsure if he is the most consistent.

    Alonso has the strongest head of them all, and in a race in an equal car, I believe he would be unbeatable on most occasions. Don't think there is much to choose from between Vettel and Hamilton. Both are extremely good - I just believe Alonso is a cut above the rest.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    Do not agree a lot of that.

    Vettel the most consistent and steady under pressure? Canada 2011 springs to mind immediately, as does Canada this year. Also unsure if he is the most consistent.

    Alonso has the strongest head of them all, and in a race in an equal car, I believe he would be unbeatable on most occasions. Don't think there is much to choose from between Vettel and Hamilton. Both are extremely good - I just believe Alonso is a cut above the rest.
    I concur.

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  4. #34
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    Nothing wrong with him.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    Do not agree a lot of that.

    Vettel the most consistent and steady under pressure? Canada 2011 springs to mind immediately, as does Canada this year. Also unsure if he is the most consistent.

    Alonso has the strongest head of them all, and in a race in an equal car, I believe he would be unbeatable on most occasions. Don't think there is much to choose from between Vettel and Hamilton. Both are extremely good - I just believe Alonso is a cut above the rest.
    I disagree. Although I believe Alonso to be a top driver, many teammates, including Felipe, have complained about his politics and the fact that all of the focus has been on Alonso's car and not an equal one.
    Don't get me wrong, I rate him in the top 3 drivers but he is not in a class of his own in my opinion.

  6. #36
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    What is going on with Sebastian Vettel

    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    I disagree. Although I believe Alonso to be a top driver, many teammates, including Felipe, have complained about his politics and the fact that all of the focus has been on Alonso's car and not an equal one.
    Don't get me wrong, I rate him in the top 3 drivers but he is not in a class of his own in my opinion.
    He is backed because he gets himself in that situation. If a teammate runs him over, I bet he won't be backed.


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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari View Post
    I disagree. Although I believe Alonso to be a top driver, many teammates, including Felipe, have complained about his politics and the fact that all of the focus has been on Alonso's car and not an equal one.
    Don't get me wrong, I rate him in the top 3 drivers but he is not in a class of his own in my opinion.
    Go back and watch the entire 2012 season and try to find one mistake. I have watched every grand prix over the past seven seasons and have never seen a driver perform like he did that year.

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  8. #38
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    I agree that Fernando Alonso is the best driver who has driven red car in past 10 years and nothing will change that. But does Ferrari need a driver of his caliber? Sure why not but Ferrari can also cope with top tier talent like Vettel, Kimi and Massa if the car is good enough.

    In F1 the car is the most important element. Sure Fernando brought amazing performances during his time with bad cars (I bet they were bad cars because of the performance of Kimi and Felipe who won 3 championships in 2007-2008.

    But I don't see the need for changes in the current lineup. The team is doing ok. 2nd in WCC at the moment is not a bad thing compared to other seasons during this decade.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmatiasii View Post
    The title of the thread should be "what's going on with the car?"
    Yep its the car not he drivers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Go back and watch the entire 2012 season and try to find one mistake. I have watched every grand prix over the past seven seasons and have never seen a driver perform like he did that year.
    May I suggest that while you were busy watching Alonso in 2012, perhaps not much attention was allowed to observe Vettel's recovery, ending up on a high-note? Alonso secured his place in racing history, not much quarell about that, but living on cocktails of yesteryears are loosing shine with time. New silverware on his plate would do some good to his true legacy.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Go back and watch the entire 2012 season and try to find one mistake. I have watched every grand prix over the past seven seasons and have never seen a driver perform like he did that year.
    He crashed himself out of Japan 2012 unnecessarily by running into Raikkonen, when he had tons of space on his right but chose to run Kimi off track instead. That was a big mistake and reason why he lost the championship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenTree View Post
    He crashed himself out of Japan 2012 unnecessarily by running into Raikkonen, when he had tons of space on his right but chose to run Kimi off track instead. That was a big mistake and reason why he lost the championship.
    Normally when someone hits you from behind you are not to blame, not sure how you can blame that all on Alonso....
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenTree View Post
    He crashed himself out of Japan 2012 unnecessarily by running into Raikkonen, when he had tons of space on his right but chose to run Kimi off track instead. That was a big mistake and reason why he lost the championship.
    That was an iffy incident who was to blame, at worst you could argue that with all Alonso had more to lose at that point in the championship and a bit more discretion should have been had.

    At any rate, that was his only mistake in that entire season. Alonso 2012 is one of the greatest seasons of all time.
    Forza Ferrari!!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenTree View Post
    He crashed himself out of Japan 2012 unnecessarily by running into Raikkonen, when he had tons of space on his right but chose to run Kimi off track instead. That was a big mistake and reason why he lost the championship.
    That's some ridiculous revisionist history you posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    May I suggest that while you were busy watching Alonso in 2012, perhaps not much attention was allowed to observe Vettel's recovery, ending up on a high-note? Alonso secured his place in racing history, not much quarell about that, but living on cocktails of yesteryears are loosing shine with time. New silverware on his plate would do some good to his true legacy.
    My point was that Alonso had a perfect season and lost the championship by less than a handful of points with a car that was not better than Vettel's. A lot of people want to talk about his relationship with Felipe or team politics, but those points are irrelevant because his performance was second to none that season. Also, it's pretty hard to improve one's legacy when one is given an engine that belongs in a Honda Accord.

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  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    My point was that Alonso had a perfect season and lost the championship by less than a handful of points with a car that was not better than Vettel's. A lot of people want to talk about his relationship with Felipe or team politics, but those points are irrelevant because his performance was second to none that season. Also, it's pretty hard to improve one's legacy when one is given an engine that belongs in a Honda Accord.
    “All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche

    Power of Alonso is continuously repeated mantra, that he is a best driver - right after sliced bread.
    Last edited by Sakae; 8th August 2016 at 18:28.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Also, it's pretty hard to improve one's legacy when one is given an engine that belongs in a Honda Accord.
    Hey! I think my Honda Accord is pretty peppy on top of being comfortable and reliable!
    Forza Ferrari!!

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    “All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche

    Power of Alonso is continuously repeated mantra, that he is a best driver - right after sliced bread.
    Fine. I'll interpret zero drivers in 2012 to mean zero driver errors in 2012. You can interpret zero driver errors in 2012 to mean whatever you want.

    Never mind the fact that the overwhelming majority of team principals voted him the best driver that season.

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  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Fine. I'll interpret zero drivers in 2012 to mean zero driver errors in 2012. You can interpret zero driver errors in 2012 to mean whatever you want.

    Never mind the fact that the overwhelming majority of team principals voted him the best driver that season.
    As a newbie, I should shy away from such arguments, but curiosity is killing me. If we watch the same news channel, than we see only intermittent segments of the race. How do you know then without any doubt, that Alonso run error free race?
    With respect to TP's judgement, fine as it may, I would not know how to judge those things, and I suspect personal bias is a big part of that decision. I give you however that much, Alonso is a fine driver. Probably so much is true; he has two titles after all to his credit, and I respect that. Is he the very best? I am in doubt, but group consensus is sometimes acceptable, false or truthful as it may be. This is supposed to be fun, so, no harm done to be wrong.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    As a newbie, I should shy away from such arguments, but curiosity is killing me. If we watch the same news channel, than we see only intermittent segments of the race. How do you know then without any doubt, that Alonso run error free race?
    With respect to TP's judgement, fine as it may, I would not know how to judge those things, and I suspect personal bias is a big part of that decision. I give you however that much, Alonso is a fine driver. Probably so much is true; he has two titles after all to his credit, and I respect that. Is he the very best? I am in doubt, but group consensus is sometimes acceptable, false or truthful as it may be. This is supposed to be fun, so, no harm done to be wrong.
    Understood.

    Typically, when a driver is in contention for the championship, like Alonso was, there is a much greater focus on him. This includes brilliant driving as well as mistakes. On NBC Sports, they shrink the screen so you can see the race and commercials. However, I believe the Speed Channel had the rights at the time. Regardless, they still showed replays after the commercials.

    Here is the link to the vote: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104812

    I can't say who is the greatest of all time because I am simply not knowledgable enough to even hazard such a guess. I will say that Alonso had the best season of his career in 2012 and I rank the current top three as follows:

    1) Fernando Alonso
    2) Sebastian Vettel
    3) Lewis Hamilton

    For the record, my favorite driver is Felipe Massa.

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  21. #51
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    My favorite driver is the one who sits behind the wheel of our car.
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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmatiasii View Post
    My favorite driver is the one who sits behind the wheel of our car.
    Can love for an object ever replace admiration of human being for his skills?

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    OP - Fine nuances of this sport, especially when one leans on statistics without having a clue of anything beyond arithmetical average, seems black box to many. This part of racing will not go away any time soon, and one needs high treshold of tolerance to get over it.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    Understood.

    Typically, when a driver is in contention for the championship, like Alonso was, there is a much greater focus on him. This includes brilliant driving as well as mistakes. On NBC Sports, they shrink the screen so you can see the race and commercials. However, I believe the Speed Channel had the rights at the time. Regardless, they still showed replays after the commercials.

    Here is the link to the vote: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104812

    I can't say who is the greatest of all time because I am simply not knowledgable enough to even hazard such a guess. I will say that Alonso had the best season of his career in 2012 and I rank the current top three as follows:

    1) Fernando Alonso
    2) Sebastian Vettel
    3) Lewis Hamilton

    For the record, my favorite driver is Felipe Massa.
    Very good recall of 2012, even down to the network coverage!
    And I have to agree with your driver ranking as well.
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    Brief note regarding a race coverage. I am hoping we all realizing that we see (and hear) through lenses and play-backs what FOM wants us to see and hear. Alonso winning 2012 season would have been good for F1 popularity. Vettel coming from behind not that much. I see nothing in the future this to change. Is it important? Probably not, but one remains sceptical of objectivity in bias ridden environment.

    Aural feedback on private calls between drivers and pit-walls are being released totally at sole discretion of Live Timing crew under FOM, and if they will state that Vettel is complaining, while others in similar situations providing measured feedback, no one can do anything about it. This might change, as Ecclestone wants us in the future to pay for access to all chatter. (If I have a choice, count me out for that).

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    lol.. coming back after a long time, and surprised to see that we are still discussing Alonso. Quite a mark the man must have made then.

    As for SV, i agree to comments saying he is pushing beyond his comfort zone and perhaps over driving the car to make up for its shortcomings. I doubt its SV who has lost the edge. Hes prbly a bit disheartened, but its really the car. And its worrying that for the last 6 yrs... its been the car.
    I think "give the driver a better car and we will see results" must be the most commonly used line across the last 6 yrs. And scarier still that its mostly true.
    We sacked FM, SD, LDM, FA and several others, and the issues are still not sorted.

    A tad negative but maybe something else is wrong here cause We have top notch drivers, huge financial backing for research and development, some of the smartest minds in the engineering department and we still cant put together a winning car. RBR has already picked up its socks and is now hunting down MB.

    How long before SV goes the Alonso way? His refusal to obey the team on strategy is a lack of trust according to many. Which really does not bode well.
    A lot will depend on how we end this year. If we slip below RBR, KR will still be here as long as he gets his paycheck, but we may have to start looking for replacement for SV.
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  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Brief note regarding a race coverage. I am hoping we all realizing that we see (and hear) through lenses and play-backs what FOM wants us to see and hear. Alonso winning 2012 season would have been good for F1 popularity. Vettel coming from behind not that much. I see nothing in the future this to change. Is it important? Probably not, but one remains sceptical of objectivity in bias ridden environment.
    You're right that we see and hear what the media wants us to. However, if Alonso made any mistake, no matter how minute, I would bet money that Sky Sports would have reported it, since they hate Ferrari.

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  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giallo 550 View Post
    You're right that we see and hear what the media wants us to. However, if Alonso made any mistake, no matter how minute, I would bet money that Sky Sports would have reported it, since they hate Ferrari.
    If certain media hated Ferrari then, they hated Vettel even more. Webber was actually praised for wanting to help Alonso against his own teammate. Painful times for us in Vettel's camp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Singer View Post
    No. Build VET a car that doesn't need a new gearbox every weekend for a start! Give Seb a good car, he'll do the business.
    Kimi driving the same car, no?

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  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso View Post
    Kimi driving the same car, no?
    Teammates have similar, but never the same cars.

    Kim 2 DNF to-date
    Seb 2 DNF + 1 DNS to-date, yet Kimi is only 2 points ahead of Seb in the WDC.

    Sebastian has been placed in all races ahead of Kimi, but in one.

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