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Thread: What is going on with Sebastian Vettel

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Teammates have similar, but never the same cars.

    Kim 2 DNF to-date
    Seb 2 DNF + 1 DNS to-date, yet Kimi is only 2 points ahead of Seb in the WDC.

    Sebastian has been placed in all races ahead of Kimi, but in one.
    The post made it sound as if Kimi was wiping the floor with Vettel.

    Hence my response.

    Or, to put it another way, this year's car is a garbage truck.

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso View Post
    Kimi driving the same car, no?
    As far as gearboxes, I would venture a guess that, yes, they're identical
    Forza Ferrari !
    "You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio

  3. #63
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    Reliability issues may have sporadic occurrences. Kimi had more than enough of them through his racing career. This year Seb might have contributed at least to one gearbox related failure. I cannot just now recall accurately whether it was in Baku touching a wall, or somewhere else riding curbs, and cracked casing. Problem with these stories is, that we always get it from secondary, or even tertiary sources. The teams seldom, if ever tell us full naked truth.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Can love for an object ever replace admiration of human being for his skills?
    That "object" is a result of very hard work from plenty of skilled human beings

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter View Post
    That "object" is a result of very hard work from plenty of skilled human beings
    Hmm, OK, each to his own. I thought that human relationship stands above any other ones, a reason, why driver's personality and character in, and out of the car is most important to me. His driving comes second, whereas material, such as car, is lower on the list.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ste View Post
    Vettel the most consistent and steady under pressure? Canada 2011 springs to mind immediately, as does Canada this year. Also unsure if he is the most consistent.

    Alonso has the strongest head of them all, and in a race in an equal car, I believe he would be unbeatable on most occasions. Don't think there is much to choose from between Vettel and Hamilton. Both are extremely good - I just believe Alonso is a cut above the rest.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by IulianFerrari
    Although I believe Alonso to be a top driver, many teammates, including Felipe, have complained about his politics and the fact that all of the focus has been on Alonso's car and not an equal one.
    Really? I recall Rob Smedley saying exactly the opposite.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrc5555 View Post
    Yes he will do the business if he does not spin, outbrake, lost first wing, get a penalty....
    You need to give him a Mercedes or any other superior car and he will win.
    that you can say about every driver..
    not gonna change my profile picture

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katu View Post
    that you can say about every driver..
    Is Rosberg included in that set of "every driver"? Something is not adding up here.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Is Rosberg included in that set of "every driver"? Something is not adding up here.
    has Rosberg already ended his season?
    "If I was driving for Red Bull [from 2008] probably I would have more championships, but because they were dominating between 2010 and 2014 probably I would never have driven for Ferrari. I am very happy and very proud to drive for Ferrari, all my time there.

  10. #70
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    Having an excellent race car to your disposal shall not lead necessarily to victories, methinks. Ask Webber, and now Rosberg. One needs also ability to drive consistently at the limit, race by race, lap by lap, gaining time where others have not, and that's a zone in which some guys sitting in a good car fall off the cliff. It's complicated.
    Last edited by Sakae; 11th August 2016 at 16:21.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Is Rosberg included in that set of "every driver"? Something is not adding up here.
    Considering that Rosberg won 19 races with Mercedes, I think he is...

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    Considering that Rosberg won 19 races with Mercedes, I think he is...
    anybody can win races in that dominant mercedes.....heck prolly even my dog if i were to put him in there he'd win a race or two....lol
    not much skill needed to win races in that utterly dominant Merc

    now winning a championship in it....well that's another story since the two drivers can take points off each other...and you have to be really good driver to beat your teammate....somethig Rosberg IS and will NEVER be good at....Lewise will almost any day of the week will wipe the floor with him

    Rosberg thought he had a good end of last year.....well Lewise had the championship in the bag, hence he did not TRY as hard to win any more races and let Rosberg feel good about himself....well at least that is my opinion on this

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Having an excellent race car to your disposal shall not lead necessarily to victories, methinks. Ask Webber, and now Rosberg. One needs also ability to drive consistently at the limit, race by race, lap by lap, gaining time where others have not, and that's a zone in which some guys sitting in a good car fall off the cliff. It's complicated.
    Todays drivers can and do ignore team orders, so all you discribed is in fact true! Just feel the pain, in a top car ahead and told to let him pass !

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelMar View Post
    Considering that Rosberg won 19 races with Mercedes, I think he is...
    After 2.5 seasons in that car, his performance seems to fluctuate, most likely one of reasons why the other guy is ahead of him. We came full circle, and clearly you need more than just an excellent car to win it all. Mind you, even hand treatment by his management would be definitely one of those helpful improvements.
    Last edited by Sakae; 12th August 2016 at 05:38.

  15. #75
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    People forget how badly Vettel got beaten by Ricciardo before moving to Ferrari. Its not exactly surprising that when given equalish cars, Ricciardo is ahead. I'd be more surprised if that wasn't the case.

    The Red Bull is now the quicker car than the Ferrari at nearly every venue and I'd honestly be very surprised if that changes.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    People forget how badly Vettel got beaten by Ricciardo before moving to Ferrari. Its not exactly surprising that when given equalish cars, Ricciardo is ahead. I'd be more surprised if that wasn't the case.

    The Red Bull is now the quicker car than the Ferrari at nearly every venue and I'd honestly be very surprised if that changes.
    Since you brought it up, is it the same Ricciardo who has ended on a score sheet behind Kvyat in 2015, and feeling pretty much heat from his junior this year? In more objective analysis 2014 can be understood, if one opens his mind to it. Try, it's worth it.
    To write obituary for Ferrari in mid season, well, there are nine races to go, and I am prepared to give them benefit of doubt. Last two races were poor by Ferrari standard, so much is true, but life goes on, and it is not static. Hope is alive.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Since you brought it up, is it the same Ricciardo who has ended on a score sheet behind Kvyat in 2015, and feeling pretty much heat from his junior this year? In more objective analysis 2014 can be understood, if one opens his mind to it. Try, it's worth it.
    2014 is quite clear to understand for all teams. I don't see anything contradictory. Ferrari picked up two drivers who got trounced by their team mates in 2014 and we're to believe this is the best possible lineup?

    They need to take a risk on a driver, they should have tried to steal Verstappen from the Toro Rosso.

  18. #78
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    Under current circumstances this is best line up on driver's side, IMO. Nothing much wrong with either of them. Verstappen was never available to them.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Under current circumstances this is best line up on driver's side, IMO. Nothing much wrong with either of them. Verstappen was never available to them.
    I agree with that, the problem is entirely with the car, not the driver. However I knew when Alonso left it would not be pretty for the team, he was flattering the hardware for many years and I still don't think he gets credit for just how well he was driving, especially in 2012. If you judge Ferrari's results off what Massa was doing it would look very dire.

    Realistically Ferrari right now are no further off than say, 2011.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    People forget how badly Vettel got beaten by Ricciardo before moving to Ferrari. Its not exactly surprising that when given equalish cars, Ricciardo is ahead. I'd be more surprised if that wasn't the case.

    The Red Bull is now the quicker car than the Ferrari at nearly every venue and I'd honestly be very surprised if that changes.
    Ricciardo is ahead because he finished all 12 races, Vettel only finished 9 of them. Verstappen has been driving better than Ricciardo most races this season.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infi24r View Post
    I agree with that, the problem is entirely with the car, not the driver. However I knew when Alonso left it would not be pretty for the team, he was flattering the hardware for many years and I still don't think he gets credit for just how well he was driving, especially in 2012. If you judge Ferrari's results off what Massa was doing it would look very dire.

    Realistically Ferrari right now are no further off than say, 2011.

    Well if Ferrari are at the same level as they were in 2011 when we had Alonso who you argue is the best driver, then can't we argue that the driver lineup we have today is equal to what we had in 2011? If that is the case, then Ferrari have done the best they could for driver lineup seeing as how Alonso was not available to Ferrari the last 2 years.

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    Well if Ferrari are at the same level as they were in 2011 when we had Alonso who you argue is the best driver, then can't we argue that the driver lineup we have today is equal to what we had in 2011? If that is the case, then Ferrari have done the best they could for driver lineup seeing as how Alonso was not available to Ferrari the last 2 years.
    Ferrari still have a strong lineup. But I would have replaced Kimi with someone young. Verstappen or Vandoorne would have both been good options. Ferrari should have been able to get Vandoorne by offering him an F1 seat.

  23. #83
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    Vandoorne is in McLaren's Young Driver Programme and is their third driver so I do not see how that could have been possible.

  24. #84
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    Neither Vandoorne or Verstappen were contractually available to Ferrari. Moreover, Ferrari is not known to hire junior drivers, regardless of their (perceived) potential. RBR were partly sure about Max, but also little bit lucky with him. I thought Sainz or Nasr were both good prospects, highly underrated IMO. Having Kimi on is generally not a bad deal, and I do suspect there is some long term strategy behind this based on future availibility of top drivers.
    Last edited by Sakae; 16th August 2016 at 06:37.

  25. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakae View Post
    Neither Vandoorne or Verstappen were contractually available to Ferrari. Moreover, Ferrari is not known to hire junior drivers, regardless of their (perceived) potential. RBR were partly sure about Max, but also little bit lucky with him. I thought Sainz or Nasr were both good prospects, highly underrated IMO. Having Kimi on is generally not a bad deal, and I do suspect there is some long term strategy behind this based on future availibility of top drivers.
    I agree, Sainz is a good potential. Ferrari should hire Sainz for the second seat. He's not quite as strong as Verstappen in race craft, but his pace is very strong and he should be available for a very minimal salary at the moment.

    I think right now the team needs good drivers to build around as opposed to hot shots coming in expecting to win straight away. A driver like Sainz would be content to rebuild with the team. I suspect Ricciardo and Verstappen would be wanting victories sooner rather than later.

  26. #86
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    What the team needs is a better car and better race weekend operations. Drivers are not a problem for several years.

  27. #87
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    What Ferrari needs is two drivers that can sub as gear box repairmen.

  28. #88
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    Talking about better operations - isn't Ruth Buscombe - strategist - (for one reason or another) on her way back to Ferrari from Haas?

  29. #89
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    Whats up w/Vet? Nothing..he simply needs a faster car.
    Kimi b good too.
    Vet is one of the best and that means I think he's better than Ric.
    Rics getting beat by a kid n he's ballin.

  30. #90
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    Vettel is overrated and not in the top three drivers any more!

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